Even if Biden wins, it doesn’t matter.

[g5000]

If Biden wins, I expect Trump will pardon Manafort, fire Barr, and whine by tweet for the next ten years.

 

[MACAULAY]

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

There is something very seriously wrong with you.
Reality conflicts and negates every single thing you mutter.

_____

I couldn't agree more. The OP looks at this whole situation in conflict with both common sense and Facts.

It is true projection. Everything "her side"---Socialists preparing to be Bolsheviks---does, crimes, and all, she sees in her opposition.

Don Trump is rude. He fights back. He's a Conservative. That doesn't justify a trip off into Psychopathology.

_______

 

[Coyote]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

My wife mentioned to me Tom Friedmans column in the NYT that builds upon the NR linke below. I don't think Lowrey really adds much, but imo there is central truth the monied people who control govt, media, entertainment, politics all look down upon workers who struggle.

Most of us don't follow the basic middle class premise of "I protect you , you protect me."

jmo but that's how Trump the persona came be

If we just fix that, the rest will take care of itself. Niether the gop nor the dems are entirely innocent.

The Only Middle Finger Available | National Review

If Trump wins, it will be as a gigantic rude gesture to the cultural Left.

www.nationalreview.com

That is a really good article....

If he wins, it will be despite all that. An enormous factor would be that Trump is the only way for his voters to say to the cultural Left, “No, sorry, you’ve gone too far.”​

It's a rather bitter pill (or a needed lesson) that we on the left might well need. A wake up call. Though it's hard to accept it without getting defensive because of our (or rather my) very real values, ethics, and morals that *I* feel under assault by the right.

The "woke" culture, to me, is not something I am in agreement with. I think we go to far, as with PC etc. I work in a University, and I'm seeing the effects of "woke" and it lacks a respect and willingness to listen to the other side. It's actually quite divisive as we are a department that is split with hard science/social science professionals.

 

[Rogue AI]

The gulf is too wide between the ideologies.

That is what I fear....but there have to be some commonalities on which to build a bridge or we are doomed.

The left is doomed, just a matter of time. Too many groups pandered to that have only loosely been held together by hating Trump. If Biden somehow wins they will fall upon each other. The right isn't going anywhere. Especially since the whiney RINOs have been rejected and ejected.

 

[MACAULAY]

What's sad is....once upon a time, Americans were for Americans and had each others backs no matter what and no matter who the foreign enemy was. We had each others backs. No more. Now if invaded...half would defend the invaders to help them.

______

The Foreign Enemy is now New York, California, and the pockets of rotting cities run by Democrats for half a century.

 

[Coyote]

What's changed? Could it be democrats legalising hard drugs, supporting pedophilla, taking hard earned money to give to illegals and never do wells, demanding Christians bow down to perversions, burning and looting at every given chance, defunding those that keep us safe, etc!

Yeah shit changed....not for the better for sure

No one supports pedo. My own hard earned money goes to support Christian groups Whether I want to or not. Nor do I or anyone I know support burning and looting or engage in it.

Nonsense, we see the news stories and the links, the arrests. The left supports all manner of perversity including pedophiles. Did I mention hollywood?

Disagree. I see support for underage marriage coming from the right for example (remember Duck Dynasty?). What adults do with other adults is their business. As a leftist, I strongly support protecting children, having a legal marriage age where children aren't marrying children, but finishing their education instead. That's my leftist thinking.

 

[Coyote]

The gulf is too wide between the ideologies.

That is what I fear....but there have to be some commonalities on which to build a bridge or we are doomed.

The left is doomed, just a matter of time. Too many groups pandered to that have only loosely been held together by hating Trump. If Biden somehow wins they will fall upon each other. The right isn't going anywhere. Especially since the whiney RINOs have been rejected and ejected.

Is it? Wasn't Trump elected based largely on hatred of Clinton?

RINOS/DINOS - those are the centrists. Ejecting them means both parties go to their extremes....that is good?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

What's changed? Could it be democrats legalising hard drugs, supporting pedophilla, taking hard earned money to give to illegals and never do wells, demanding Christians bow down to perversions, burning and looting at every given chance, defunding those that keep us safe, etc!

Yeah shit changed....not for the better for sure

No one supports pedo. My own hard earned money goes to support Christian groups Whether I want to or not. Nor do I or anyone I know support burning and looting or engage in it.

Nonsense, we see the news stories and the links, the arrests. The left supports all manner of perversity including pedophiles. Did I mention hollywood?

Disagree. I see support for underage marriage coming from the right for example (remember Duck Dynasty?). What adults do with other adults is their business. As a leftist, I strongly support protecting children, having a legal marriage age where children aren't marrying children, but finishing their education instead. That's my leftist thinking.

You can't see the forests for the trees....and why you're not taken seriously....and you're not

 

[Coyote]

What's changed? Could it be democrats legalising hard drugs, supporting pedophilla, taking hard earned money to give to illegals and never do wells, demanding Christians bow down to perversions, burning and looting at every given chance, defunding those that keep us safe, etc!

Yeah shit changed....not for the better for sure

No one supports pedo. My own hard earned money goes to support Christian groups Whether I want to or not. Nor do I or anyone I know support burning and looting or engage in it.

You just voted for a family of them.

No. I didn't vote for Trump.

 

[MarathonMike]

"The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies."

Thank you for a well thought out post. The above statement stood out for me. If we look back over the last few years, I can't recall a single attempt by the Democrats to unify. The messaging has been almost exclusively TRUMP IS BAD and worse yet TRUMP SUPPORTERS ARE BAD. When that is your starting point on nearly all of your statements and actions, all you will do is anger and divide. Just looking at our election results shows us that the country is darn near split in half and the divide between us is deep and wide.

 

[Coyote]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

Plus your foot issues.

Hey, I just ordered my new Ghosts

 

[Coyote]

What's changed? Could it be democrats legalising hard drugs, supporting pedophilla, taking hard earned money to give to illegals and never do wells, demanding Christians bow down to perversions, burning and looting at every given chance, defunding those that keep us safe, etc!

Yeah shit changed....not for the better for sure

No one supports pedo. My own hard earned money goes to support Christian groups Whether I want to or not. Nor do I or anyone I know support burning and looting or engage in it.

Nonsense, we see the news stories and the links, the arrests. The left supports all manner of perversity including pedophiles. Did I mention hollywood?

Disagree. I see support for underage marriage coming from the right for example (remember Duck Dynasty?). What adults do with other adults is their business. As a leftist, I strongly support protecting children, having a legal marriage age where children aren't marrying children, but finishing their education instead. That's my leftist thinking.

You can't see the forests for the trees....and why you're not taken seriously....and you're not

I don't much care who does or does not take me seriously. Your opinion is worthless these days. It just devolves into an insult fest rather than any dialogue.

I would rather spend time with those interested in discussion.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

I don’t know...but this election, tbe historically huge turn out, what does that say about the people?

It tells me there is historically high levels of enthusiasm for Donald Trump. You certainly can't say Joe Biden
with his campaign run out of his basement made anyone excited.

 

[Norman]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

If you don't like American freedom I suggest you step out and go live in some shithole that never contributed anything to the world.

America needs to start taking Americanism seriously again. Idiots vote for other people's stuff not for freedom. Garry meandering is stupid, instead revamp democracy all together. Only net tax payers or something to that effect should vote. No more loser vote voting free shit for itself. That shit has ruined EVERY country it has touched.

Even China has figured out that you can't let children decide how other people should live. It is very stupid. And for that they are in a much better position for 2000s than the West.

 

[G.T.]

We're not that divided if you get rid of the cults of personality. On issues, Americans are somewhat congruent.

 

[jackflash]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

The statist left marxist poverty & bloodbath ideology not to mention idolatry issues is WHY you lefties went down in flames. The left lost about a million moderate Democrats alone that defected over to the Republican party due to the statist left loosing their BLM/antifa fiasco. Heck there were Black folks publically stating that they have/had nothing to do with the BLM movement. Those Blacks were voting for the constitutionally based right wingers! The statist left calls the constitutionally based right; nazis. Everyone else calls the constitutionally based right; Classical Liberals or Conservatives. Dump the statist left & join with the Libertarian party or Repub party where you can get your mind straightened out. Just avoid those statist left marxist losers. You get a reputation as one of those lefties & word gets out you will be black balled by your fellow countrymen.

 

[BlueGin]

What's changed? Could it be democrats legalising hard drugs, supporting pedophilla, taking hard earned money to give to illegals and never do wells, demanding Christians bow down to perversions, burning and looting at every given chance, defunding those that keep us safe, etc!

Yeah shit changed....not for the better for sure

No one supports pedo. My own hard earned money goes to support Christian groups Whether I want to or not. Nor do I or anyone I know support burning and looting or engage in it.

You just voted for a family of them.

No. I didn't vote for Trump.

Right you voted for mr. child groper. You get his pedo son in the package deal.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I don’t know...but this election, tbe historically huge turn out, what does that say about the people?

It tells me there is historically high levels of enthusiasm for Donald Trump. You certainly can't say Joe Biden
with his campaign run out of his basement made anyone excited.

If it weren't for fraud Biden would have lost. The communists are now screaming that they didn't get a mandate. They will still have opposition.

 

[Coyote]

"The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies."

Thank you for a well thought out post. The above statement stood out for me. If we look back over the last few years, I can't recall a single attempt by the Democrats to unify. The messaging has been almost exclusively TRUMP IS BAD and worse yet TRUMP SUPPORTERS ARE BAD. When that is your starting point on nearly all of your statements and actions, all you will do is anger and divide. Just looking at our election results shows us that the country is darn near split in half and the divide between us is deep and wide.

I agree. It didn't work when the Republicans used it on Obama either.

I thought the Dems though did a decent job on highlighting healthcare (highly important imo) and Covid. It's really tough to unseat an incumbent regardless. One thing I listened to was on the Democrat messaging to Hispanics. The Trump campaign handled their outreach to Hispanics far better than Biden. Clinton did far better than either with Hispanics. But what the Dems miss, I think, is that "Hispanic" is by no means a unified cultural group, and presuming it is, is not bothering to do your research.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

What's changed? Could it be democrats legalising hard drugs, supporting pedophilla, taking hard earned money to give to illegals and never do wells, demanding Christians bow down to perversions, burning and looting at every given chance, defunding those that keep us safe, etc!

Yeah shit changed....not for the better for sure

No one supports pedo. My own hard earned money goes to support Christian groups Whether I want to or not. Nor do I or anyone I know support burning and looting or engage in it.

Nonsense, we see the news stories and the links, the arrests. The left supports all manner of perversity including pedophiles. Did I mention hollywood?

Disagree. I see support for underage marriage coming from the right for example (remember Duck Dynasty?). What adults do with other adults is their business. As a leftist, I strongly support protecting children, having a legal marriage age where children aren't marrying children, but finishing their education instead. That's my leftist thinking.

You can't see the forests for the trees....and why you're not taken seriously....and you're not

I don't much care who does or does not take me seriously. Your opinion is worthless these days. It just devolves into an insult fest rather than any dialogue.

I would rather spend time with those interested in discussion.

Right back at you.

You're just another befuddled left loon trying to look partisan and you're not. Everyone knows it, give up the charade.

As for division? I've watched you assholes objecting to anything Trump did for four years and he kicked your ass. If I were him I'd have told you to pound sand ....oh wait he did.

Now shush before you look even more ridiculous