Even if Biden wins, it doesn’t matter.

[candycorn]

The gulf is too wide between the ideologies.

The moderates see the the right as far more sane than the left.

Alex Jones was a speaker today at the March. By definition the right wing is denying reality

 

[MaryL]

I could whine and say the election was fixed. But Occam's razor basically indicates that by and large, American voters are foolish morons. PT Barnum would love THIS crowd. I have real actual Mermaid skeleton on Ebay for $4,291.21. AND a barely used shiny bridge in Brooklyn for only 7mill. Contact ImGllble@morons .com

 

[Zorro!]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

REAL liberals and "conservatives" should not be ideologically far apart.

It's the fake liberal commies and the neocons fucking up the works.

Ask yourself if you are a real liberal (you may have been at some point but probably lost your way).

Exactly. As Conservatives are conserving constitutional liberal democracy. Thing is, Progressives aren't illiberal.

 

[MaryL]

Thing is: Democrats need to rename themselves. They certainly aren't into real true democracy anymore. Nope. Here you go: the Monocrats. They want to destroy political DIVERSITY and create a (scary word) one party hegemony.

 

[basquebromance]

it does matter, folks!

folks, if we let the Dems rig this election, they will rig all elections...for an eternity!

 

[Zorro!]

Thing is: Democrats need to rename themselves. They certainly aren't into real true democracy anymore. Nope. Here you go: the Monocrats. They want to destroy political DIVERSITY and create a (scary word) one party hegemony.

Yup. And they can even add Faux News to their stable of propagandists!

 

[Godboy]

The gulf is too wide between the ideologies.

The moderates see the the right as far more sane than the left.

Alex Jones was a speaker today at the March. By definition the right wing is denying reality

Alex Jones has no support from the right, with the exception of weirdo conspiracy theorists.

 

[candycorn]

The gulf is too wide between the ideologies.

The moderates see the the right as far more sane than the left.

Alex Jones was a speaker today at the March. By definition the right wing is denying reality

Alex Jones has no support from the right, with the exception of weirdo conspiracy theorists.

Yet somehow he wound up speaking for your God

 

[Lakhota]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

The following article helps to support your OP:

Democrats Keep Winning The Popular Vote. That Worries Them.

What alarms many Democrats is a growing gap between their popular vote tallies and their political power.

www.huffpost.com

 

[talksalot]

In order to get relected, Trump had to fight the Democrats, FBI, MSM, Big Tech, Big Pharma, the Abortion Industry, the Entertainment Industry, unions, piss-ant liberal judges and The Swamp; who all want their "bought and paid for" president back in office so corruption and stagnation can get back to normal.

Trump's not an angel, a god, a savior, but he is the best thing to happen to the USA in decades. He's done more good in four years than every president since Reagan. Trump is a man of the people who can't be bought. That's why he is hated so much.

As soon as Democrats started mass-mailing ballots, most Americans knew the election was fixed. Biden and Harris have no plans other than to drive down the economy, cement Democrat power and make themselves rich. The MSM will do everything they can to build them up but they will always be known as the frauds.... JOE AND HO.

 

[Godboy]

The gulf is too wide between the ideologies.

The moderates see the the right as far more sane than the left.

Alex Jones was a speaker today at the March. By definition the right wing is denying reality

Alex Jones has no support from the right, with the exception of weirdo conspiracy theorists.

Yet somehow he wound up speaking for your God

Even a broken watch is right twice per day.

 

[MisterBeale]

it does matter, folks!

folks, if we let the Dems rig this election, they will rig all elections...for an eternity!

Dude. . I've known that the elites have been rigging them since 2002 or 2004.

In fact, they rigged the last one to get Trump in office.

Both parties are controlled by the same forces. And the "rigging," is done at the behest of folks that do not give a shit about partisan politics.

They are playing with us, toying with the electorate and their emotions for their grander purposes. . . ones that you do not even perceive or even understand.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

What this election has told us, in multiple ways, is that our country has fundamentally changed and that breaks my heart.

The Republicans are entrenched. They are likely to retain control of the senate, added to their House, and retained state legislatures. They have the courts. They will control redistricting after the census and we can expect continued gerrymandering to further marginalize Democrat voting blocks, leading to more districts where a minority of the voters controls a majority of the seats. Not unique to Republicans, but increasingly utilized by them.

The Democrats have still, somehow missed the mark. Again. They can’t seem to get a message to the people that unifies. Maybe this is because Biden is not strong candidate, and Trump carries the power of the incumbency into the election. There are some bright spots, retaining seats in Texas, tight margins in some key red states.

If Trump wins, I see a further dismantling of our nation’s democratic infrastructure and a continued decline in our image and effectiveness abroad. I see complete politicization of our departments, from tiny VOA to DoJ, and entire civil service where personal loyalty is demanded over competency and professionalism. When Trump talks about reorganizing military leadership, is he attempting to politicize the military? I do not think this is hyperbole. We have been seeing this trend for four years, E.O. after E.O.

If Trump wins, and continues his assault on long established unwritten rules of behavior and social norms what will we see coming out of this? When society agrees to an unwritten set of norms and our leaders hold to it, our institutions function smoothly even with bumps and potholes. But when those potholes become so extreme they threaten the structure and people can no longer navigate, we are forced to create laws or rules we never thought would be needed. Example: media resorting to fact checking, because the volume of disinformation and political lies exceeds the ability of our society to handle, and it is coming from our leadership. I fear, if Trump is re-elected further attacks on truth, on facts, and on genuine journalism.

But Trump doesn’t need to win for this. It is already rolling down on us. If Biden wins, a huge segment of America voted for Trump. Huge! And that is dismaying and unsettling, to me, because I see this election as not about which candidate to elect, but as who we are as a country and who we want to be going forward.

If Biden wins, what, at best will happen? A rollback of EO’s? Competent people making decisions? Rebuilding the integrity and professionalism of our battered institutions: DoJ, State Department, EPA, CDC, VOA,....

If Trump wins, there is nothing to stop him from using his offfice to go after his “enemies“, every person who has ever criticized, spoken up, or gone against him and firing those who won’t do it. I think this, coming from the top of our leadership, is an existential crisis. If Biden wins....maybe the Republicans can create a better party, without Trump.

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Trump won 2016 by very narrow margins. 2020 will be the same, who ever wins. Will the people win?

The following article helps to support your OP:

Democrats Keep Winning The Popular Vote. That Worries Them.

What alarms many Democrats is a growing gap between their popular vote tallies and their political power.

www.huffpost.com

I’ve said before I believe the big winner of the election ... is the capitalist class. Wall Street & the Stock Market love a weak and divided government ... which cannot and will not challenge its domination of the economy. But of course a “strong government” controlled by an unstable, incompetent, narcissistic, scapegoating, lying lunatic and demagogue like Trump would have been a disaster.

We all have escaped that bullet for now, but that means only that the old corporate elites and their security state is back in control. Of course now the Supreme Court is even more friendly to corporate interests.

Those who point to the popularity of key aspects of the new nationalist Republican program on issues like immigration, law and order, and many aspects of the culture wars are correct. The Democrats have gone out of their way to alienate many traditionalist (mostly white) working people by their continuing mishandling of these issues. They seem to think it is more important to provide public funds for transgender operations than to fix the teeth of working-class kids. Seriously, a lot of this shit is just ridiculous.

At the same time the “left wing” of the Democratic Party is afraid to take on its own corporate and pro-imperialist wings. It is too attached to liberal identity politics to care about class (or anti-imperialist) issues. No simple answers here. The Democrats need to see an uprising — a smart and politically savvy uprising — from its left wing, which has to rid itself of many of its own foolish obsessions

 

[Zorro!]

In order to get relected, Trump had to fight the Democrats, FBI, MSM, Big Tech, Big Pharma, the Abortion Industry, the Entertainment Industry, unions, piss-ant liberal judges and The Swamp; who all want their "bought and paid for" president back in office so corruption and stagnation can get back to normal.

Trump's not an angel, a god, a savior, but he is the best thing to happen to the USA in decades. He's done more good in four years than every president since Reagan. Trump is a man of the people who can't be bought. That's why he is hated so much.

As soon as Democrats started mass-mailing ballots, most Americans knew the election was fixed. Biden and Harris have no plans other than to drive down the economy, cement Democrat power and make themselves rich. The MSM will do everything they can to build them up but they will always be known as the frauds.... JOE AND HO.

But, we have Mitch! And Pelosi is down a LOT of seats, perhaps enough that if the GOP allies with a couple handfuls of moderate Dems, we could see a moderate Dem take the Speakership from Crazy Nancy.

And with redistricting, we should start 2022 with +7 and then pick up more seats after that.

 

[Mac-7]

7 out of 10 oppose overturning Roe.

Hey, guess what?

the supreme court is not bound to obey your lying lib polls

 

[Nova78]

Biden will be treated how they treated Trump, I hope this sorry excuse is impeached and harassed and bullied and life is made miserable for 4 years. Payback is a bitch.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

P.S. (to comment #453) :

Much thanks to Coyote for this thoughtful OP!

Your OP was really excellent ... and clearly heartfelt. It rightly generated lots of interest, with more reactions than I’ve ever seen before.

Glad USMB has you as a Moderator. Your contributions make this a much better place.

 

[BlueGin]

Left loons love polls, they're rarely right but they still love them

The polls are never wrong in republicans favor which is why libs like them so much

they are designed to discourage republican voters

but that only works with wet noodle romney repubs

trump voters just turned up on election day and voted anyway

Everyone now knows they are only used to manipulate. Everyone.

 

[Circe]

I read, somewhere, that an alarming number of people no longer feel democratic principles are so important, and that a strong (authoritarian) leader might even be preferred to the messiness and uncertainties of democratic systems. I'm trying to find links to this, because I wonder if it plays into sentiments driving our country today.

Nice essay! Thoughtful.

Yes, I think you are right about this, that many want an authoritarian leader. It would have to be Trump, perhaps, because that job requires charisma. I've been reading a lot of poli sci lately, and democracy doesn't work if people are gravely divided, as we are. The problem with a dictator is obvious to me. Can't trust 'em: pretty soon you've got Stalin. Democracy isn't working in all this malign heterogeneity, just as it didn't in Austria-Hungary. Devolution or secession is next, I assume. A political body this large is incredibly abnormal --- I can't believe the U.S. has lasted as one state this long, 156 years, but the break-up only started in the 60s and 70s, and there is a lot of friction. I think it's sliding to the crash now, though.

 

[Circe]

Biden will be treated how they treated Trump, I hope this sorry excuse is impeached and harassed and bullied and life is made miserable for 4 years. Payback is a bitch.

Naaaaaah, won't happen. We rightists are way too polite, it's ingrained. We'll just ignore him and whatever he does and then the socialists will take over the country.