Eva Bartlett: Human Rights and Justice in Gaza

[P F Tinmore]

4- Why do Arab Muslims think they can continue to efforts to commit a second holocaust on Jews in their own holy land without any consequences?

5- Why do Arab Muslims think they are entitled to commit terror and mass murder on non Muslims without others having the right to defend themselves or retaliate?

6- Why are Arab Muslims the major source for terror, intolerance, and instability throughout the world today?

One holocaust card and two terrorist cards, that is not a good hand.

 

[Shusha]

Israel will not reciprocate.

So, it is your belief that if all hostilities cease from Gaza and everyone in Gaza respects the buffer zones for a period of six months to a year -- that Israel will unilaterally and without cause attack Gaza?

Just clarifying.

 

[Shusha]

1. Why do Zionists believe Palestinians should not resist Jewish rule?

What makes you think I believe Palestinians should not resist Jewish rule? I firmly believe in the right of Palestinians and Gazans to self-determination and self-rule. I've said so many, many times.

My point is that violence and terrorism is neither moral nor effective in achieving those ends. Palestinians and Gazans ALREADY have self-rule in Gaza and Areas A and B. By promoting peace, thereby addressing the security concerns of Israel, things can only improve.

UNLESS the goal is not self-determination, but self-determination along with the destruction of Israel. So which is it?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel will not reciprocate.

So, it is your belief that if all hostilities cease from Gaza and everyone in Gaza respects the buffer zones for a period of six months to a year -- that Israel will unilaterally and without cause attack Gaza?

Just clarifying.

Not at all. You are thinking like an Israeli. Why should Israel get a free ride while the Palestinians comply? Every time the Palestinians do now Israel reneges later. Israel must do up front with the Palestinians.

And Israel will have to stop its old trick of a ceasefire in Gaza then killing a bunch of Hamas in the West Bank.

 

[Shusha]

Why should Israel get a free ride while the Palestinians comply? .

Um. Because Gaza is the one instigating all the hostilities? Duh.

 

[P F Tinmore]

1. Why do Zionists believe Palestinians should not resist Jewish rule?

What makes you think I believe Palestinians should not resist Jewish rule? I firmly believe in the right of Palestinians and Gazans to self-determination and self-rule. I've said so many, many times.

My point is that violence and terrorism is neither moral nor effective in achieving those ends. Palestinians and Gazans ALREADY have self-rule in Gaza and Areas A and B. By promoting peace, thereby addressing the security concerns of Israel, things can only improve.

UNLESS the goal is not self-determination, but self-determination along with the destruction of Israel. So which is it?

OK but 3/4 of the people in Gaza are refugees. They fire rockets into their home towns. How should we address that?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why should Israel get a free ride while the Palestinians comply? .

Um. Because Gaza is the one instigating all the hostilities? Duh.

Israeli bullshit. The occupation came before any hostilities.

 

[Shusha]

Here's the way I think it should work:

Gaza stops all hostilities. Israel rewards that behaviour with goodies. In that order. Why are you having a problem with this?

 

[Shusha]

Why should Israel get a free ride while the Palestinians comply? .

Um. Because Gaza is the one instigating all the hostilities? Duh.

Israeli bullshit. The occupation came before any hostilities.

The occupation was withdrawn and the hostilities did not cease.

 

[Shusha]

OK but 3/4 of the people in Gaza are refugees. They fire rockets into their home towns. How should we address that?

The "they" who fire rockets being Israel? And the "their" hometowns being Gaza?

Easy. STOP ENGAGING IN HOSTILE BEHAVIOR TOWARD ISRAEL. Then Israel will have no need to defend itself. And, guess what? There is no more violence. A preschooler could understand it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Here's the way I think it should work:

Gaza stops all hostilities. Israel rewards that behaviour with goodies. In that order. Why are you having a problem with this?

Tried that several times. Israel always reneges.

 

[Shusha]

Here's the way I think it should work:

Gaza stops all hostilities. Israel rewards that behaviour with goodies. In that order. Why are you having a problem with this?

Tried that several times. Israel always reneges.

So, you are indeed claiming that Israel attacks Gaza with no cause.

 

[P F Tinmore]

OK but 3/4 of the people in Gaza are refugees. They fire rockets into their home towns. How should we address that?

The "they" who fire rockets being Israel? And the "their" hometowns being Gaza?

Easy. STOP ENGAGING IN HOSTILE BEHAVIOR TOWARD ISRAEL. Then Israel will have no need to defend itself. And, guess what? There is no more violence. A preschooler could understand it.

More Israeli bullshit.

Najd
(Arabic: نجد‎) was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (8.7 mi) northeast of Gaza City. During the British Mandate in Palestine, children from Najd attended school in the nearby village of Simsim. On 13 May 1948, Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled[6] and fled to Gaza.

Najd was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in 1517 with the rest of Palestine,

The Israeli city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[12] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

 

[Shusha]

OK but 3/4 of the people in Gaza are refugees. They fire rockets into their home towns. How should we address that?

The "they" who fire rockets being Israel? And the "their" hometowns being Gaza?

Easy. STOP ENGAGING IN HOSTILE BEHAVIOR TOWARD ISRAEL. Then Israel will have no need to defend itself. And, guess what? There is no more violence. A preschooler could understand it.

More Israeli bullshit.

Najd
(Arabic: نجد‎) was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (8.7 mi) northeast of Gaza City. During the British Mandate in Palestine, children from Najd attended school in the nearby village of Simsim. On 13 May 1948, Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled[6] and fled to Gaza.

Najd was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in 1517 with the rest of Palestine,

The Israeli city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[12] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Entirely irrelevant to our current conversation.

 

[P F Tinmore]

OK but 3/4 of the people in Gaza are refugees. They fire rockets into their home towns. How should we address that?

The "they" who fire rockets being Israel? And the "their" hometowns being Gaza?

Easy. STOP ENGAGING IN HOSTILE BEHAVIOR TOWARD ISRAEL. Then Israel will have no need to defend itself. And, guess what? There is no more violence. A preschooler could understand it.

More Israeli bullshit.

Najd
(Arabic: نجد‎) was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (8.7 mi) northeast of Gaza City. During the British Mandate in Palestine, children from Najd attended school in the nearby village of Simsim. On 13 May 1948, Najd was occupied by the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak, and the villagers were expelled[6] and fled to Gaza.

Najd was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in 1517 with the rest of Palestine,

The Israeli city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[12] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

Entirely irrelevant to our current conversation.

No it isn't. The people in Gaza were attacked and expelled starting before the 1948 war and that injustice has never been addressed.

 

[Shusha]

Here's the way I think it should work:

Gaza stops all hostilities. Israel rewards that behaviour with goodies. In that order. Why are you having a problem with this?

Tried that several times. Israel always reneges.

So, you are indeed claiming that Israel attacks Gaza with no cause.

Ah, okay. I'm glad I asked you the second time, since you seemed to deny it the first.

So, we have a different problem here. You are claiming that Israel has no intention of making peace with Gaza and living side-by-side as neighbors. You are subscribing to a narrative of what you believe the other side's position is. Its an issue of trust.

And frankly, its not a narrative based on factual or objective truths. Israel has, in fact, given every indication that it is willing to permit self-rule in Gaza as long as it does not threaten Israel. (Seriously, Israel could flatten Gaza in a micro-second. Why haven't they if that is their intent?)

But I agree with you, that if that is the narrative, it will be nearly impossible to make peace. That narrative has to change first. Unfortunately, when people cling to clearly false narratives based on assumptions of the other side's position or the assignation of evil intent to the other side's position, it is very very difficult to change.

 

[Shusha]

No it isn't. The people in Gaza were attacked and expelled starting before the 1948 war and that injustice has never been addressed.

But you think committing violence toward Israel is going to address that injustice? As opposed to peace?

 

[P F Tinmore]

No it isn't. The people in Gaza were attacked and expelled starting before the 1948 war and that injustice has never been addressed.

But you think committing violence toward Israel is going to address that injustice? As opposed to peace?

Israel has had almost 70 years to address that. What is the delay and when do they plan to do something?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Here's the way I think it should work:

Gaza stops all hostilities. Israel rewards that behaviour with goodies. In that order. Why are you having a problem with this?

Tried that several times. Israel always reneges.

So, you are indeed claiming that Israel attacks Gaza with no cause.

Ah, okay. I'm glad I asked you the second time, since you seemed to deny it the first.

So, we have a different problem here. You are claiming that Israel has no intention of making peace with Gaza and living side-by-side as neighbors. You are subscribing to a narrative of what you believe the other side's position is. Its an issue of trust.

And frankly, its not a narrative based on factual or objective truths. Israel has, in fact, given every indication that it is willing to permit self-rule in Gaza as long as it does not threaten Israel. (Seriously, Israel could flatten Gaza in a micro-second. Why haven't they if that is their intent?)

But I agree with you, that if that is the narrative, it will be nearly impossible to make peace. That narrative has to change first. Unfortunately, when people cling to clearly false narratives based on assumptions of the other side's position or the assignation of evil intent to the other side's position, it is very very difficult to change.

You are claiming that Israel has no intention of making peace with Gaza​

Bingo!

 

[P F Tinmore]

Here's the way I think it should work:

Gaza stops all hostilities. Israel rewards that behaviour with goodies. In that order. Why are you having a problem with this?

Tried that several times. Israel always reneges.

So, you are indeed claiming that Israel attacks Gaza with no cause.

Ah, okay. I'm glad I asked you the second time, since you seemed to deny it the first.

So, we have a different problem here. You are claiming that Israel has no intention of making peace with Gaza and living side-by-side as neighbors. You are subscribing to a narrative of what you believe the other side's position is. Its an issue of trust.

And frankly, its not a narrative based on factual or objective truths. Israel has, in fact, given every indication that it is willing to permit self-rule in Gaza as long as it does not threaten Israel. (Seriously, Israel could flatten Gaza in a micro-second. Why haven't they if that is their intent?)

But I agree with you, that if that is the narrative, it will be nearly impossible to make peace. That narrative has to change first. Unfortunately, when people cling to clearly false narratives based on assumptions of the other side's position or the assignation of evil intent to the other side's position, it is very very difficult to change.

What do you think is false?