Euthanasia

[syrenn]

Read the explanation in the post just below from a board certified hospice MD and you'll better understand.

Good.... read the highlighted area....THEY overdose the patient...

i suggest you read your own quote.

You disagree with everything I say just to be obnoxious. The doctor stated that it is NOT euthanasia to give a patient morphine prn. It is has to do with intent. In your case, it would be euthanasia because you're out to kill the patient because YOU think they're suffering and can't stand to see it.

You have to have a big heart to attend the dying. You have to open yourself to the reality of the dying process.

semantics and covering their asses....

the end result is the same. Putting someone out of pain and helping them to die.

how about saying it straight up. They have no problem killing.

 

[koshergrl]

I know that I have experienced the death of loved ones, at least.

 

[Iridescence]

It is a fine line of semantics that doctors walk so they can't be accused of intentionally committing euthanasia.

A Dr says he's administering huge doses of narcotics or opiates to relieve pain knowing damn well that the secondary effect very well may be death but since he says his intent is not to cause death he is ethically and legally shielded.

IF I MAY suggest something... Don't diss our doctors. They are of a higher order than most of us obviously are and do NOT deserve our criticism. Of course there may be some that fall short of their potential best, but we must keep in mind we are NOT required to seek them out, we are taught to, and ultimately we choose to.

Individuals ideally should be more proactive in their own healthcare. It isn't that we should become completely independent of doctors, but for us to be proactive and manage the manageable it is more of a compliment to them when we do seek them out for their wisdom of practice.

I am obviously not one fond of any miracle pills if there are things within reach of the poor allowing them to attain their desired level of health.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I know that I have experienced the death of loved ones, at least.

Of course you have. I've attended a number of deaths myself.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Good.... read the highlighted area....THEY overdose the patient...

i suggest you read your own quote.

You disagree with everything I say just to be obnoxious. The doctor stated that it is NOT euthanasia to give a patient morphine prn. It is has to do with intent. In your case, it would be euthanasia because you're out to kill the patient because YOU think they're suffering and can't stand to see it.

You have to have a big heart to attend the dying. You have to open yourself to the reality of the dying process.

semantics and covering their asses....

the end result is the same. Putting someone out of pain and helping them to die.

how about saying it straight up. They have no problem killing.

No, it's not. You don't seem to understand intent. Your intent is killing, mine is pain management. You've said many times you have no problem killing human beings. I sincerely hope you aren't working with patients now.

 

[syrenn]

Read the explanation in the post just below from a board certified hospice MD and you'll better understand.

Good.... read the highlighted area....THEY overdose the patient...

i suggest you read your own quote.

You disagree with everything I say just to be obnoxious. The doctor stated that it is NOT euthanasia to give a patient morphine prn. It is has to do with intent. In your case, it would be euthanasia because you're out to kill the patient because YOU think they're suffering and can't stand to see it.

You have to have a big heart to attend the dying. You have to open yourself to the reality of the dying process.

And what makes you think that i have not attended the dying? Why do you think i have the opinions if have on not letting people suffer long slow painful deaths. My last rotations were extended care and hospice...

 

[Sky Dancer]

Good.... read the highlighted area....THEY overdose the patient...

i suggest you read your own quote.

You disagree with everything I say just to be obnoxious. The doctor stated that it is NOT euthanasia to give a patient morphine prn. It is has to do with intent. In your case, it would be euthanasia because you're out to kill the patient because YOU think they're suffering and can't stand to see it.

You have to have a big heart to attend the dying. You have to open yourself to the reality of the dying process.

And what makes you think that i have not attended the dying? Why do you think i have the opinions if have on not letting people suffer long slow painful deaths. My last rotations were extended care and hospice...

How many patients did you "put out of their misery"? You've stated many times you have no problem killing. Now I understand the context of that statement.

 

[geauxtohell]

I know that I have experienced the death of loved ones, at least.

Guess that makes you an expert.

No go and do something useful and volunteer at a hospice. Go read to the terminally ill who are blind or just sit at their bed and talk to them. Aside from being good karma, you might actually learn something.

 

[syrenn]

So whats the problem? If someone is dying... put them to sleep and end their pain.

They are dying.... giving them something to help end that painful process......

It's a fine line of semantics that doctors walk so they can't be accused of intentionally committing euthanasia.

A Dr says he's administering huge doses of narcotics or opiates to relieve pain knowing damn well that the secondary effect very well may be death but since he says his intent is not to cause death he is ethically and legally shielded.

No, it's not. It's intent. When my dog was dying I gave him pain meds. I was trying to let him die naturally. I did not have an aversion to his condition or a selfish motivation to put myself out of suffering.

You let him suffer a long slow painful death. Death was going to happen...and YOU let hims suffer for selfish reasons of your own. You let him suffer for YOUR religious beliefs.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It's a fine line of semantics that doctors walk so they can't be accused of intentionally committing euthanasia.

A Dr says he's administering huge doses of narcotics or opiates to relieve pain knowing damn well that the secondary effect very well may be death but since he says his intent is not to cause death he is ethically and legally shielded.

No, it's not. It's intent. When my dog was dying I gave him pain meds. I was trying to let him die naturally. I did not have an aversion to his condition or a selfish motivation to put myself out of suffering.

You let him suffer a long slow painful death. Death was going to happen...and YOU let hims suffer for selfish reasons of your own. You let him suffer for YOUR religious beliefs.

You weren't there and you don't know shit. My dog died a natural, and pain free death.
I gave him pain meds and made him as comfortable as possible.

I did not wish him to suffer, I wished him to die the way he lived. A noble and loving being, I was with him around the clock, giving 24 hour care.

I am confident that my dog did not suffer. I was under the vet's direction the entire time.

My spiritual beliefs are none of your business.

We're back to where we started. On the outs.

 

[syrenn]

If a person is sent home with pain medicaitons and chooses to take their own life with it, then what buisness is that of the rest of the world? They choose suicide rather than suffering. It was still their choice and action.

A person can OD on a virtually every other medication in their cabinet too, to include tylenol.

Why does that change with morphine?

it doesn't. It's the naive belief that morphine isn't used to hasten death that is the issue I'm arguing.

Oh. I agree with that to an extent. It's accepted that morphine hastens death. The patient and family is made to understand that. It's also accpeted that it's use is to prevent suffering.

It is the final consensus that it's a balancing act that doesn't operate with 100% efficiency.

As long as people understand that, there is no arguement.

That is not "euthansia" per se. The intent is not to kill the patient. It's too control their pain.

I love the alleviation of the guilt...the end result is the same.

 

[syrenn]

Watch someone die a slow death from cancer or dementia, then we will talk.
It isn't about killing them, it is about not making them suffer anymore.

Working in medicine changes your views doesn't it? I agree... after you have been there and done it first hand....then you can talk.

You work in medicine and kill your patients?

idiot.....

 

[geauxtohell]

Euthanasia as someone else deliberately ending someone's life to alleviate suffering is abominable, reprehensible, immoral, illegal, and sickening. It should never be embraced by the medical community.

Allowing people the option to end their own life by their own hand is a different matter. Oregon's "Death with Dignity" is the best example of a workable law that actually makes sense.

You certainly are entitled to that opinion. But I believe the majority will disagree with it because it conflicts with the most basic concept of mercy.

Not within the medical community. God help you all that I actually graduate, I will never intentionally end a life, even if a patient is begging me to do it. I think the Hypocratic Oath/Corpus is mostly irrelevant bullshit, but there are some general things we agree on.

I didn't get out of the profession of arms and into the profession of healthcare to take life. I regret that people suffer terribly. I am not going to be the person that "puts down" a human being like they were an animal.

I'll note too, I am pretty liberal and not generally considered to be a "morally obsessed" poster. In this instance, it's not the soul of the patient I am concerned with. It's my own soul and conscious (I mean that figuratively).

 

[syrenn]

Euthanasia as someone else deliberately ending someone's life to alleviate suffering is abominable, reprehensible, immoral, illegal, and sickening. It should never be embraced by the medical community.

Allowing people the option to end their own life by their own hand is a different matter. Oregon's "Death with Dignity" is the best example of a workable law that actually makes sense.

You certainly are entitled to that opinion. But I believe the majority will disagree with it because it conflicts with the most basic concept of mercy.

aaaahh... but medicine is not about mercy.. It is about keeping you alive.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Euthanasia as someone else deliberately ending someone's life to alleviate suffering is abominable, reprehensible, immoral, illegal, and sickening. It should never be embraced by the medical community.

Allowing people the option to end their own life by their own hand is a different matter. Oregon's "Death with Dignity" is the best example of a workable law that actually makes sense.

You certainly are entitled to that opinion. But I believe the majority will disagree with it because it conflicts with the most basic concept of mercy.

aaaahh... but medicine is not about mercy.. It is about keeping you alive.

Hospice is about palliative care. It's about allowing a person to die.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Working in medicine changes your views doesn't it? I agree... after you have been there and done it first hand....then you can talk.

You work in medicine and kill your patients?

idiot.....

Nice and friendly response. You are the one who says you have no problem killing people.

 

[Sky Dancer]

it doesn't. It's the naive belief that morphine isn't used to hasten death that is the issue I'm arguing.

Oh. I agree with that to an extent. It's accepted that morphine hastens death. The patient and family is made to understand that. It's also accpeted that it's use is to prevent suffering.

It is the final consensus that it's a balancing act that doesn't operate with 100% efficiency.

As long as people understand that, there is no arguement.

That is not "euthansia" per se. The intent is not to kill the patient. It's too control their pain.

I love the alleviation of the guilt...the end result is the same.

Are you completely heartless? Some of us genuinely aren't interested in killing anyone. We want our loved ones to have their pain managed.

 

[geauxtohell]

it doesn't. It's the naive belief that morphine isn't used to hasten death that is the issue I'm arguing.

Oh. I agree with that to an extent. It's accepted that morphine hastens death. The patient and family is made to understand that. It's also accpeted that it's use is to prevent suffering.

It is the final consensus that it's a balancing act that doesn't operate with 100% efficiency.

As long as people understand that, there is no arguement.

That is not "euthansia" per se. The intent is not to kill the patient. It's too control their pain.

I love the alleviation of the guilt...the end result is the same.

The end result, death, is going to be the same for a terminal patient regardless. It's not an alleviation of guilt. It's an important line in the sand to keep the intent from switching from "pain control" to "ending life".

I'll certainly concede it's a gray area and has nuance to it. Probably enough to cover people who do intend to take life (for what they deem to be good intentions).

Doctors and nurses shouldn't be given the latitude to take their patient's lives. Even if the patient requests it.

 

[Iridescence]

Euthanasia as someone else deliberately ending someone's life to alleviate suffering is abominable, reprehensible, immoral, illegal, and sickening. It should never be embraced by the medical community.

Allowing people the option to end their own life by their own hand is a different matter. Oregon's "Death with Dignity" is the best example of a workable law that actually makes sense.

You certainly are entitled to that opinion. But I believe the majority will disagree with it because it conflicts with the most basic concept of mercy.

Not within the medical community. God help you all that I actually graduate, I will never intentionally end a life, even if a patient is begging me to do it. I think the Hypocratic Oath/Corpus is mostly irrelevant bullshit, but there are some general things we agree on.

I didn't get out of the profession of arms and into the profession of healthcare to take life. I regret that people suffer terribly. I am not going to be the person that "puts down" a human being like they were an animal.

I'll note too, I am pretty liberal and not generally considered to be a "morally obsessed" poster. In this instance, it's not the soul of the patient I am concerned with. It's my own soul and conscious (I mean that figuratively).

Your level of gifted wisdom may very well be horridly limited if these words are true as posted. Perhaps they are just premature and you're yet immature in understanding. Other than this... I admire your way.

 

[syrenn]

You disagree with everything I say just to be obnoxious. The doctor stated that it is NOT euthanasia to give a patient morphine prn. It is has to do with intent. In your case, it would be euthanasia because you're out to kill the patient because YOU think they're suffering and can't stand to see it.

You have to have a big heart to attend the dying. You have to open yourself to the reality of the dying process.

semantics and covering their asses....

the end result is the same. Putting someone out of pain and helping them to die.

how about saying it straight up. They have no problem killing.

No, it's not. You don't seem to understand intent. Your intent is killing, mine is pain management. You've said many times you have no problem killing human beings. I sincerely hope you aren't working with patients now.

I am all for it. I always have been.

I think it is very sad that i can treat my pets better then the people i love.

How easy it is for you to kill someone.

given the right circumstances...i have no issues killing.

you like the semantics of it all... the end result is the same. Sugar coat however you want to... pain management and killing are the same at times.

Yes i say that..and it is true. I have no issues with killing... i also add every time.... given the right circumstances.....

ive added the quote for you...since your memory is selective.