Empirical Falsification Of the CAGW meme.

[SSDD]

Back to mind experiments. There is a target to be measured by IR guns, and it controlled to show a surface temperature of 20C.

Has the thought ever entered into that mind of yours to question why you are restricted to mind experiments when discussing your beliefs regarding back radiation, net energy flows, CO2 slowing the escape of energy to space etc? You claim all of this stuff is happening all the time...right around us...at a magnitude that you claim is altering the temperature of the entire f'ing globe. Have you ever wondered why there are no measurements? Not a single measurement made with an instrument at ambient temperature...the very temperature you claim all of this phantasy physics is happening, that establishes a coherent link between the absorption of IR by a gas and warming in the atmosphere? Ever wondered? Even just a little bit?

You are one of a very small group that thinks the radiation coming off the target is controlled by the IR gun, or vice versa. And believes both the gun and the target stop radiating completely if the temperatures match.

Then I suppose I am one of a very small group that actually grasps how the instruments work, and am not being fooled by what they say...and it is a f'ing sad statement that I am part of a very small group that wonders why there are no actual measurements made with instruments at the same temperature you claim all this is happening that support the claim. Has science sunk so low that a lowly lab tech is one of the last people who wonders why none of this phantasy physics has never been measured?

Every sane person thinks the gun is simply comparing the unknown amount of radiation coming off the target to it's own known amount of internal radiation. A surplus of outside radiation causes the sensor to warm up, a deficit cools it. An exact match causes no change but that does not mean either the gun or the target stopped radiating.

People who actually know how the gun works know that the gun is doing absolutely nothing more than measuring how much and how quickly the internal thermopile(s) are warming or cooling and running that through an equation and determining a temperature...the gun isn't doing anything else..thermal cameras are doing the same thing with a more complex array of sensors. If the thermopile is warming, it is because it is receiving energy from a warmer object..positive flux...if it is cooling, it is because it is losing energy to a cooler object...negative flux...that is what is happening ian...nothing else. The rest of your "understanding" is pure fantasy.

 

[SSDD]

How does the warm object know how quickly it can lose heat to a cooler object?

Doesn't have to know...simply obey the laws of physics and you can't go wrong.

Does the cooler object somehow broadcast info about its temperature?

Again, you are operating from your own point of view...you need to know things that happened at some time in the past in order to react...energy transfer is happening at the speed of light...no time..no distance. Till you get your head wrapped around that, you will be forever lost.

That's where SSDD'S magic photons come to the rescue! They just know, they don't need no steenkin' information.

Needing to know before taking action assumes the passage of time, and distance....not applicable to energy transfer happening at the speed of light.

 

[mamooth]

Doesn't have to know...simply obey the laws of physics and you can't go wrong.

Your magic photons wildly violate the laws of physics. S-B says emission is sigma*area*T^4 for any bit of matter, period. Your fraudulent version of S-B openly violates the laws of phsyics, which is yet another reason everyone knows you're just nuts.

Again, you are operating from your own point of view...you need to know things that happened at some time in the past in order to react...energy transfer is happening at the speed of light...no time..no distance.

Your magic photons can receive info from stars that haven't even formed yet on the opposite side of the universe. Your magic photons are apparently the only thing in the universe that can both predict future events, and receive information at far faster than the speed of light, yet you've never explained why only they get that special exemption. That's how we know you're a babbling lunatic.

 

[IanC]

Again, you are operating from your own point of view...you need to know things that happened at some time in the past in order to react...energy transfer is happening at the speed of light...no time..no distance. Till you get your head wrapped around that, you will be forever lost.

Here in our universe, light travels at a finite speed, and it takes time to travel a distance.

Your imaginary point of view for a photon is based on division by zero. While it is interesting to contemplate, it is cut off from our reality.

 

[SSDD]

Your magic photons wildly violate the laws of physics. S-B says emission is sigma*area*T^4 for any bit of matter, period. Your fraudulent version of S-B openly violates the laws of phsyics, which is yet another reason everyone knows you're just nuts.

Sorry hairball..you just don't seem to be able to speak without being wrong...it must get old. S-B says emission is sigma*area*T^4 for a black body...The S-B law is about black bodies which is why it is wrongly used in the atmosphere as gas molecules are not black bodies.

Your magic photons can receive info from stars that haven't even formed yet on the opposite side of the universe.

Haven't formed yet references time...on the other side of the universe references distance...meaningless concepts to an entity that travels at the speed of light...sorry that this is all so far over your head that you find yourself unable to even grasp the concept of time and distance being meaningless concepts.

Your magic photons are apparently the only thing in the universe that can both predict future events

Future...again, a reference to time...meaningless when speaking about photons. Again...sorry you are so stupid.

 

[SSDD]

Again, you are operating from your own point of view...you need to know things that happened at some time in the past in order to react...energy transfer is happening at the speed of light...no time..no distance. Till you get your head wrapped around that, you will be forever lost.

Here in our universe, light travels at a finite speed, and it takes time to travel a distance.

Your imaginary point of view for a photon is based on division by zero. While it is interesting to contemplate, it is cut off from our reality.

Cut off from reality...like speaking of theoretical particles and what they are doing as if it were real...you mean cut off from reality like that?

At least when I talk about photons, I do so with the caveat that they may or may not exist and may or may not behave as post modern physics claims...and I keep the fact that they are entirely theoretical in the forefront of my mind and never assume that they are real.

 

[mamooth]

Haven't formed yet references time...on the other side of the universe references distance...meaningless concepts to an entity that travels at the speed of light...sorry that this is all so far over your head that you find yourself unable to even grasp the concept of time and distance being meaningless concepts.

So, according to you, every single photon constantly experiences the totally of the entire universe over its entire existence, past and future.

And to think you wonder why everyone laughs so hard at you.

So, how do healing crystals and aromatherapy work into your physics? Is there any new age babble you don't embrace?

 

[SSDD]

So, according to you, every single photon constantly experiences the totally of the entire universe over its entire existence, past and future.

Not according to me you idiot...according to post modern physics....according to physics, they exist at every point along their path at the same time. Personally, I don't even believe photons exist...I believe light is a wave with properties we have yet to understand.

And where you get the whole universe over its entire existence is just more of your idiotic bullshit. No one, not even post modern physics has suggested such a stupid notion...that one is all yours...not surprising at all.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So, according to you, every single photon constantly experiences the totally of the entire universe over its entire existence, past and future.

Not according to me you idiot...according to post modern physics....according to physics, they exist at every point along their path at the same time. Personally, I don't even believe photons exist...I believe light is a wave with properties we have yet to understand.

And where you get the whole universe over its entire existence is just more of your idiotic bullshit. No one, not even post modern physics has suggested such a stupid notion...that one is all yours...not surprising at all.

according to post modern physics....according to physics, they exist at every point along their path at the same time.

Post anything from modern physics that backs up your causality violating smart photon theory.

 

[IanC]

Not that I want to appear that I am supporting SSDD but the process is not clear.

Can a photon get emitted without a receiver?

Just because something doesn't exist, that doesn't mean it can't be useful. Eg i , the square root of negative one.

 

[SSDD]

Not that I want to appear that I am supporting SSDD but the process is not clear.

Can a photon get emitted without a receiver?

Just because something doesn't exist, that doesn't mean it can't be useful. Eg i , the square root of negative one.

Well, that would explain why energy does not move from cool to warm. If a photon is not emitted till it has a receiver, then it would not emit till a receiver capable of receiving that frequency was available. It would put a quick end to the idea that matter emits randomly in all directions and make sense of the fact that energy is only observed moving spontaneously from warm to cool.

And if the peanut gallery is able to wrap their heads around such an idea, it would explain that photons don't have to be smart...they just obey the laws of physics..and that means if no receiver is present, then they don't get emitted..

Set T1 and T2 to the same number and P=0...zero.

Interesting that toddster thanked you for the post when the referenced article supports my position.

 

[IanC]

. It would put a quick end to the idea that matter emits randomly in all directions and make sense of the fact that energy is only observed moving spontaneously from warm to cool.

Actually, at first blush, it would seem that radiation would preferentially choose to radiate towards close nearby matter. This would decrease entropy. A big no-no in thermodynamics.

The whole Wheeler-Feynman thing is pretty cool, and perhaps helps to explain inertia, but all that is above my pay grade.

The takeaway here is that individual radiation processes are controlled by internal conditions. Temperature is a macroscopic property and does not apply to individual particles.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Not that I want to appear that I am supporting SSDD but the process is not clear.

Can a photon get emitted without a receiver?

Just because something doesn't exist, that doesn't mean it can't be useful. Eg i , the square root of negative one.

Well, that would explain why energy does not move from cool to warm. If a photon is not emitted till it has a receiver, then it would not emit till a receiver capable of receiving that frequency was available. It would put a quick end to the idea that matter emits randomly in all directions and make sense of the fact that energy is only observed moving spontaneously from warm to cool.

And if the peanut gallery is able to wrap their heads around such an idea, it would explain that photons don't have to be smart...they just obey the laws of physics..and that means if no receiver is present, then they don't get emitted..

Set T1 and T2 to the same number and P=0...zero.

Interesting that toddster thanked you for the post when the referenced article supports my position.

I thanked an article which referenced real science.
You've provided none which support your claim of zero emissions at equilibrium.
You've provided none which support your claim that emitters know the temperature of their target without any information leaving that target.

 

[SSDD]

The takeaway here is that individual radiation processes are controlled by internal conditions. Temperature is a macroscopic property and does not apply to individual particles.

If, however at the microscopic level a photon only emits when it has a receiver capable of absorbing at its particular frequency, the whole two way net energy flow fantasy flies out the window.

 

[SSDD]

I thanked an article which referenced real science.
You've provided none which support your claim of zero emissions at equilibrium.
You've provided none which support your claim that emitters know the temperature of their target without any information leaving that target.

Leaving implies time and distance...irrelavent to entities moving at the speed of light.

Yeah..all I could provide was the law of thermodynamics, the SB law and every observation and measurement ever made....

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I thanked an article which referenced real science.
You've provided none which support your claim of zero emissions at equilibrium.
You've provided none which support your claim that emitters know the temperature of their target without any information leaving that target.

Leaving implies time and distance...irrelavent to entities moving at the speed of light.

Yeah..all I could provide was the law of thermodynamics, the SB law and every observation and measurement ever made....

Leaving implies time and distance...irrelavent to entities moving at the speed of light.

The emitter, or the photon, receives info that never leaves the target because.....speed of light? LOL!

Yeah..all I could provide was the law of thermodynamics,

Yeah, you'll have to post the part that mentions photons.
Meanwhile......

Second Law of Thermodynamics

it's almost like GSU directed that specifically at you.

 

[IanC]

Not that I want to appear that I am supporting SSDD but the process is not clear.

Can a photon get emitted without a receiver?

Just because something doesn't exist, that doesn't mean it can't be useful. Eg i , the square root of negative one.

Well, that would explain why energy does not move from cool to warm. If a photon is not emitted till it has a receiver, then it would not emit till a receiver capable of receiving that frequency was available. It would put a quick end to the idea that matter emits randomly in all directions and make sense of the fact that energy is only observed moving spontaneously from warm to cool.

And if the peanut gallery is able to wrap their heads around such an idea, it would explain that photons don't have to be smart...they just obey the laws of physics..and that means if no receiver is present, then they don't get emitted..

Set T1 and T2 to the same number and P=0...zero.

Interesting that toddster thanked you for the post when the referenced article supports my position.

I thanked an article which referenced real science.
You've provided none which support your claim of zero emissions at equilibrium.
You've provided none which support your claim that emitters know the temperature of their target without any information leaving that target.

Objects continuously radiate according to their temperature. They don't know or care what the receiving object's temperature is.

Energy in the form of photons is continuously being swapped back and forth. Heat is a type of energy that is described by the net flow of photons, a macroscopic property like temperature. An individual particle has no temperature, no heat, until it part of and compared to a large cohort of other particles.

Temperature is basically the rate of speed the molecules are traveling. But speed is a relative thing. The temperature isn't increased because the molecules are traveling a km/second around the Sun, or ten km/sec around the centre of the Galaxy.

The kinetic speed of molecules is important. Head on collisions between fast moving particles make more energy available to produce more photons, at higher energy wavelengths than a glancing blow between slow moving ones.

But once that photon is produced it makes no difference how fast the receiving particle is moving.

 

[IanC]

The takeaway here is that individual radiation processes are controlled by internal conditions. Temperature is a macroscopic property and does not apply to individual particles.

If, however at the microscopic level a photon only emits when it has a receiver capable of absorbing at its particular frequency, the whole two way net energy flow fantasy flies out the window.

Again, the speed at which the receiver is moving makes no difference to the photon.

In a gas at normal terrestrial temperatures, the ratio of excited molecules to groundstate molecules is very low, something like one in ten thousand. Most of the energy is stored as kinetic energy and potential energy in the gravity field, neither of which affects the absorption of a photon. In solids and liquids there are many more bonds capable of absorbing a variety of photons. That is why their emissivities are typically much higher and over a broader range than gases.

 

[IanC]

There is no label on a molecule that can pass on information about temperature to a photon 'testing' it for suitability. Only internal conditions apply. And this probably only applies to photons passing a force (the added property of attraction or repulsion), and not to radiative photons which are simply shedding energy.

 

[SSDD]

Objects continuously radiate according to their temperature. They don't know or care what the receiving object's temperature is.

That is only in a vacuum ian...when they are in the presence of other matter, they radiate according to their own emissivity, area, and the difference between their own temperature and that of their surroundings...if you have some actual observed, measured, quantified evidence to the contrary, I would be interested in seeing it. Of course you don't though...just models all the way down.