Elizabeth Warren proposes canceling student loan debt and offering free public college

[gallantwarrior]

Regardless whether you think it's a good idea, or not, really is irrelevant. Realistically, this pipe dream is plainly pandering to certain demographics who would just love some "free" money. Our education system is badly broken, as is the way we pay for education, especially secondary education.
So, Warren's pandering is just a lot of hot air. Not only that, but she's getting shriller and more desperate with every speech she makes. I think she's got a snowball's chance in hell to win the Dem primary and every time she opens that lying pie hole of hers, she puts a knife in it. But as long as she's in the running, she's quite a distraction.

What a load of shit.

We have a generation of people who were told that College is the only path to a decent life...shackled to crippling debt because of it.

And that debt is crippling our ability to innovate. You can't start a business when you have that kind of debt. You can't take chances. You can't buy a home. You can't start a family

How would you suggest we change the crippling effect of this myth perpetrated by colleges and those who benefit from the money spent there by gullible students? Throwing money will only exacerbate the problem because the predatory practices of college administrations would "smell the blood" and jack the price of a higher education.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Drive a Truck. Weld a pipeline. Wire a house. Chane a Toilet. STHU.

Okay, not sure what "Chane a Toilet" means...

But those jobs only still pay kind of well because they have unions that the One Percenters are trying to get rid of, and there aren't that many of them. You want a good job, you need a degree.

So now you wrote 1000 resumes over ten years at $100 per? Wow, how can we get in on that job?

Actually, I wrote a lot more than that. But math clearly isn't your strong suit.

Never wrote one for a "Toiler Chaner" though.

Or you belong to a union. Problem with unions is, there is always a cadre that reaps lots and lots of the union members' hard-earned income and who live quite well without ever lifting a finger to do the job done by the union members. Once again, a class of useless parasites live off the lifeblood of productive skilled workers.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Why though when we could borrow another trillion for bombing brown people instead? That's what real nationalism is about, right?

Anyway, sarcasm aside, this will be Donald's 2020 competitor. You better take her seriously. Calling her Pocahontas won't be good enough.

Elizabeth Warren proposes canceling student loan debt and offering free public college

The proposal would cancel up to $50,000 in debt for people with annual household income under $100,000. Beyond that income threshold, smaller amounts of debt would be canceled, but no one with more than $250,000 in household income would be eligible.

To keep students from accumulating more debt in the future, Warren also proposes making two- and four-year public colleges tuition free, according to a plan unveiled in advance of a Monday evening CNN town hall focused on issues of interest to young voters.

With a price tag of $1.25 trillion over 10 years, Warren’s higher-education initiatives up the ante on an issue that most 2020 Democratic presidential candidates have been trying to address in more modest ways.

She would offer every male in America a blow job if she thought it would get her elected.

The fake Indian has utterly no integrity and is attempting to buy her way into office with other peoples money.

 

[JoeB131]

You mean the part where I ask you to "think it through"? Call me an optimist.

No, it was just dumb in general. No employer wants stupid employees.

You just said a degree isn't necessary. Are you confused? Or equivocating to cover up your blunder?

I'm saying if HS did their jobs, an HS Diploma would be enough. They aren't in some cases. So a Bachelor's degree has essentially become the new HS Diploma.

My solution would be a lot simpler. Instead of sending 18 year olds off to college, we require two years of national service. Anyone who shows promise during their two years gets a free ride through college.

 

[JoeB131]

Or you belong to a union. Problem with unions is, there is always a cadre that reaps lots and lots of the union members' hard-earned income and who live quite well without ever lifting a finger to do the job done by the union members. Once again, a class of useless parasites live off the lifeblood of productive skilled workers.

Yeah, let's look at that.

Most union presidents make six figures. in fact, the only one in the Seven Figure range is the Sheet Metal Union president, and those guys make $54.00 an hour.

MEANWHILE, CEO's make Seven, eight and nine figure salaries, and still get that even when their companies fail. The guy who ran GM into the ground was being paid $12 million a year.

I agree with the highlighted statements. Now, the first question begs an answer that explains WHY are so many HS Grads illiterate? Makes me feel like the K-12 education provided to them using my tax dollars is a waste of their time and my money. I suggest that our current public education system spends more time (and money) indoctrinating the young into current social agendas instead of assuring that they can READ, WRITE (properly), and CIPHER (to a minimal level).
As to the second highlighted passage, our failed/failing "educational" system has failed to produce sufficiently competent employees that employers are forced to look to sources where the truly important training is accomplished in order to find workers capable of doing the job.

I think you put way too much blame on the schools. How about the parents who think that TV is an acceptable babysitter?

Of course, you have to look at WHERE the problems are... if you have a well-off suburb, those kids are going to be just fine. Their schools have up to date textbooks, adequate facilities, etc.

Inner city schools, have outdated textbooks, one to two kids, bad infrastructure and they have to run every kid through a metal detector to make sure he isn't bringing a gun in. Not exactly condusive to learning, is it?

 

[Blues Man]

So I'm self centered if I don't want to pay for someone else to go to college ?

If it makes the nation better? Yes.

You pay for those same people getting K-12 education. In honesty you resent THAT as well.

It won't make the nation better

And there is a limit to my charity. K-12 is taking care of minor children so there is a difference between that and paying for adults to go to college. AT some point you people have to realize that you need to grow up and be independent.

You seem to forget that people have to take care of themselves which means having the money to save for retirement. To what extent do I have to sacrifice my own financial security for the sake of other people's or the nations' needs so as not to be "self centered"?

 

[Blues Man]

So I'm self centered if I don't want to pay for someone else to go to college ?

If it makes the nation better? Yes.

You pay for those same people getting K-12 education. In honesty you resent THAT as well.

Yeah, they probably do. Conservatism is a massive argument for selfishness against self-interest.

K-12 is for minor children.

When you are an adult, you should pay your own way.

If you ever grow up you will know this

 

[Blues Man]

The people who convinced you that everyone has to go to college.

And a 4 year degree in what?

If a job says it requires a 4 year degree but does not specify the discipline then there is no degree requirement.

This is part of the everyone has to go to college mentality that has been fostered in this country.

Well, you have a point. College is totally wasted on MAGA hat wearers from Jesusland.

When I got my college degree in 1985, it was kind of a big deal. I was the first member of my family to achieve it.

Now, my Nephew is about to be the third person in my family to get a Master's degree.

Why do employers want more education? They want to make sure you have the wear with all to follow through on something.

Wow I can see that college education didn't do you much good

the word you were searching for is wherewithal

 

[dblack]

You mean the part where I ask you to "think it through"? Call me an optimist.

No, it was just dumb in general. No employer wants stupid employees.

Ahh.. so you are confused. I didn't say employers want stupid employees (strawman?). We were discussing how government subsidizing college degrees artificially increases demand. Of course an employer will favor a candidate with a college degree. And if everybody and their brother has a college degree, because government is financing it, it will be very difficult for someone without one to get a job. In effect, the government is making it harder for people without degrees to get a job - even for a job that doesn't really require one, like yours.

My solution would be a lot simpler. Instead of sending 18 year olds off to college, we require two years of national service. Anyone who shows promise during their two years gets a free ride through college.

Do they get standard issue jack boots with the term of service?

 

[Slyhunter]

So I'm self centered if I don't want to pay for someone else to go to college ?

If it makes the nation better? Yes.

You pay for those same people getting K-12 education. In honesty you resent THAT as well.

How does paying for everyone's college degree make the nation better?

Ensuring everyone who wants a college degree can get one, even if they can't afford one, will raise the standard of Employee. Then we could afford illegal immigrants in to do the crappy jobs.

Of course that is assuming we don't go bankrupt giving everyone free college.

 

[Slyhunter]

Regardless whether you think it's a good idea, or not, really is irrelevant. Realistically, this pipe dream is plainly pandering to certain demographics who would just love some "free" money. Our education system is badly broken, as is the way we pay for education, especially secondary education.
So, Warren's pandering is just a lot of hot air. Not only that, but she's getting shriller and more desperate with every speech she makes. I think she's got a snowball's chance in hell to win the Dem primary and every time she opens that lying pie hole of hers, she puts a knife in it. But as long as she's in the running, she's quite a distraction.

What a load of shit.

We have a generation of people who were told that College is the only path to a decent life...shackled to crippling debt because of it.

And that debt is crippling our ability to innovate. You can't start a business when you have that kind of debt. You can't take chances. You can't buy a home. You can't start a family

How would you suggest we change the crippling effect of this myth perpetrated by colleges and those who benefit from the money spent there by gullible students? Throwing money will only exacerbate the problem because the predatory practices of college administrations would "smell the blood" and jack the price of a higher education.

Providing Government payment of college would require a mandatory ceiling on what colleges are permitted to charge.

 

[dblack]

Regardless whether you think it's a good idea, or not, really is irrelevant. Realistically, this pipe dream is plainly pandering to certain demographics who would just love some "free" money. Our education system is badly broken, as is the way we pay for education, especially secondary education.
So, Warren's pandering is just a lot of hot air. Not only that, but she's getting shriller and more desperate with every speech she makes. I think she's got a snowball's chance in hell to win the Dem primary and every time she opens that lying pie hole of hers, she puts a knife in it. But as long as she's in the running, she's quite a distraction.

What a load of shit.

We have a generation of people who were told that College is the only path to a decent life...shackled to crippling debt because of it.

And that debt is crippling our ability to innovate. You can't start a business when you have that kind of debt. You can't take chances. You can't buy a home. You can't start a family

How would you suggest we change the crippling effect of this myth perpetrated by colleges and those who benefit from the money spent there by gullible students? Throwing money will only exacerbate the problem because the predatory practices of college administrations would "smell the blood" and jack the price of a higher education.

Providing Government payment of college would require a mandatory ceiling on what colleges are permitted to charge.

It sure would! That's the lead-in to the end game.

 

[Polishprince]

Regardless whether you think it's a good idea, or not, really is irrelevant. Realistically, this pipe dream is plainly pandering to certain demographics who would just love some "free" money. Our education system is badly broken, as is the way we pay for education, especially secondary education.
So, Warren's pandering is just a lot of hot air. Not only that, but she's getting shriller and more desperate with every speech she makes. I think she's got a snowball's chance in hell to win the Dem primary and every time she opens that lying pie hole of hers, she puts a knife in it. But as long as she's in the running, she's quite a distraction.

What a load of shit.

We have a generation of people who were told that College is the only path to a decent life...shackled to crippling debt because of it.

And that debt is crippling our ability to innovate. You can't start a business when you have that kind of debt. You can't take chances. You can't buy a home. You can't start a family

How would you suggest we change the crippling effect of this myth perpetrated by colleges and those who benefit from the money spent there by gullible students? Throwing money will only exacerbate the problem because the predatory practices of college administrations would "smell the blood" and jack the price of a higher education.

Providing Government payment of college would require a mandatory ceiling on what colleges are permitted to charge.

Also, mandatory ceiling on what colleges are allowed to spend on salaries and other expenses, limits on the number of provosts and pointless programs they would be permitted to have

 

[gallantwarrior]

You mean the part where I ask you to "think it through"? Call me an optimist.

No, it was just dumb in general. No employer wants stupid employees.

You just said a degree isn't necessary. Are you confused? Or equivocating to cover up your blunder?

I'm saying if HS did their jobs, an HS Diploma would be enough. They aren't in some cases. So a Bachelor's degree has essentially become the new HS Diploma.

My solution would be a lot simpler. Instead of sending 18 year olds off to college, we require two years of national service. Anyone who shows promise during their two years gets a free ride through college.

I agree with the service requirement but think that affording local service should also be an option. Biggest problem with proposals like this in the past has been objection by the unions. How about an apprenticeship or intern program for trades like mechanics, plumbers, professions like these. Then we let the youngsters decide whether they want to pursue academics or trades at about high school age, say, 14 years? Apprenticeships would not just be about menial labor but would include classroom training in related science and technology. This would: improve technical skills and knowledge, give the public well-trained and competent tradespeople, and such professionals could demand better pay for those skills.

 

[Polishprince]

My solution would be a lot simpler. Instead of sending 18 year olds off to college, we require two years of national service. Anyone who shows promise during their two years gets a free ride through college.

Forced, involuntary servitude runs into 13th Amendment problems.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Or you belong to a union. Problem with unions is, there is always a cadre that reaps lots and lots of the union members' hard-earned income and who live quite well without ever lifting a finger to do the job done by the union members. Once again, a class of useless parasites live off the lifeblood of productive skilled workers.

Yeah, let's look at that.

Most union presidents make six figures. in fact, the only one in the Seven Figure range is the Sheet Metal Union president, and those guys make $54.00 an hour.

MEANWHILE, CEO's make Seven, eight and nine figure salaries, and still get that even when their companies fail. The guy who ran GM into the ground was being paid $12 million a year.

I agree with the highlighted statements. Now, the first question begs an answer that explains WHY are so many HS Grads illiterate? Makes me feel like the K-12 education provided to them using my tax dollars is a waste of their time and my money. I suggest that our current public education system spends more time (and money) indoctrinating the young into current social agendas instead of assuring that they can READ, WRITE (properly), and CIPHER (to a minimal level).
As to the second highlighted passage, our failed/failing "educational" system has failed to produce sufficiently competent employees that employers are forced to look to sources where the truly important training is accomplished in order to find workers capable of doing the job.

I think you put way too much blame on the schools. How about the parents who think that TV is an acceptable babysitter?

Of course, you have to look at WHERE the problems are... if you have a well-off suburb, those kids are going to be just fine. Their schools have up to date textbooks, adequate facilities, etc.

Inner city schools, have outdated textbooks, one to two kids, bad infrastructure and they have to run every kid through a metal detector to make sure he isn't bringing a gun in. Not exactly condusive to learning, is it?

CEOs are parasites, too, but on a much larger scale, obviously.
I do blame the schools but I also recognize a few things that hinder teaching/education, First, the curriculum dictated in many school districts fails to emphasize STEM subjects and encourages "soft" subjects, usually socially-driven clap-trap. The kids, being kids, are much more likely to take the "easy" classes. Unfortunately, as a culture we have decided that to reward good performance somehow damages underperforming students. (As a whole, we need to bring shame back to this society.) Teachers are well-protected by their unions and poor teachers are almost invulnerable. Teachers also need to step off their soap boxes and teach academic subjects. It's tough sometimes, I know because as a university professor I had to always pay attention to where my politics were expressed...not in the classroom.
Parents are another problem. Lots of folks seem to think that squirting out a brat makes them parents. Parents also often neglect their children's emotional needs in favor of that job they must have to materially support them. Lots of factors there. I know a family, he's in the military and she's always stayed home to raise the children and keep the home. Old-fashioned but the kids are great people. Was it always easy, certainly not. It meant budgeting, buying that smaller car, and only one car. It meant buying some things second hand. But they've always had a clean, comfortable home and at least one parent was accessible to the children when needed. Too many people have bought into the fantasy that they should have all they want, when they want it. The idea of working and waiting until something can be acquired is foreign to most people in this country. Patience is not much favored in our culture.
The discrepancy between urban, suburban, and rural schools is pretty significant, as you mention. There's a lot more going on in these situations and would be subject for another discussion in itself. One-sized fits all, lock-step education is not what is needed. Here, having the Feds involved is a definite handicap. Local communities should be responsible for determining what is needed after certain basic information has been taught. Reading, writing, 'rithmetic stuff should come first and then elective subjects dictated locally. To do this, we need to untie the Federal purse strings that have a stranglehold on local communities and how they educate their children.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Regardless whether you think it's a good idea, or not, really is irrelevant. Realistically, this pipe dream is plainly pandering to certain demographics who would just love some "free" money. Our education system is badly broken, as is the way we pay for education, especially secondary education.
So, Warren's pandering is just a lot of hot air. Not only that, but she's getting shriller and more desperate with every speech she makes. I think she's got a snowball's chance in hell to win the Dem primary and every time she opens that lying pie hole of hers, she puts a knife in it. But as long as she's in the running, she's quite a distraction.

What a load of shit.

We have a generation of people who were told that College is the only path to a decent life...shackled to crippling debt because of it.

And that debt is crippling our ability to innovate. You can't start a business when you have that kind of debt. You can't take chances. You can't buy a home. You can't start a family

How would you suggest we change the crippling effect of this myth perpetrated by colleges and those who benefit from the money spent there by gullible students? Throwing money will only exacerbate the problem because the predatory practices of college administrations would "smell the blood" and jack the price of a higher education.

Providing Government payment of college would require a mandatory ceiling on what colleges are permitted to charge.

You realize that after government took over and began guaranteeing student loans is when colleges began jacking the price of education, don't you?

 

[gallantwarrior]

My solution would be a lot simpler. Instead of sending 18 year olds off to college, we require two years of national service. Anyone who shows promise during their two years gets a free ride through college.

Forced, involuntary servitude runs into 13th Amendment problems.

But wait! Other countries make public service a requirement for young people...kinda just like other countries have socialized medicine. Gravy for the goose...

 

[dblack]

Regardless whether you think it's a good idea, or not, really is irrelevant. Realistically, this pipe dream is plainly pandering to certain demographics who would just love some "free" money. Our education system is badly broken, as is the way we pay for education, especially secondary education.
So, Warren's pandering is just a lot of hot air. Not only that, but she's getting shriller and more desperate with every speech she makes. I think she's got a snowball's chance in hell to win the Dem primary and every time she opens that lying pie hole of hers, she puts a knife in it. But as long as she's in the running, she's quite a distraction.

What a load of shit.

We have a generation of people who were told that College is the only path to a decent life...shackled to crippling debt because of it.

And that debt is crippling our ability to innovate. You can't start a business when you have that kind of debt. You can't take chances. You can't buy a home. You can't start a family

How would you suggest we change the crippling effect of this myth perpetrated by colleges and those who benefit from the money spent there by gullible students? Throwing money will only exacerbate the problem because the predatory practices of college administrations would "smell the blood" and jack the price of a higher education.

Providing Government payment of college would require a mandatory ceiling on what colleges are permitted to charge.

You realize that after government took over and began guaranteeing student loans is when colleges began jacking the price of education, don't you?

Heh... how'd that work out?

 

[dblack]

My solution would be a lot simpler. Instead of sending 18 year olds off to college, we require two years of national service. Anyone who shows promise during their two years gets a free ride through college.

Forced, involuntary servitude runs into 13th Amendment problems.

Joe doesn't care about the Constitution. Just more power for the state.