Education a right ?

[rdean]

The idea of education being a right, can not be a fact.
It is a law, none the less, that you must ATTEND (if under a certain age).
No one can force you to become educated. Public schooling is paid for with public taxes, so one could argue that taxation without appropriation would be the only thing at play in this sandbox. (that common good stuff is Communism).

The path to our future depends upon our children. Whether we decide to give them proper education for the new needs of the global economy remains to be seen. If they don’t finish high school then what about collage? No new Dr’s, chemists, engineers, architects, etc. These all have to be imported because we produce none.

No it’s not an inalienable right but the failure of our children, is the failure of our nation.

I believe it's not just a right, but a necessity. When the left thinks about "building the nation", they think of Doctors and engineers and people you named. When conservatives think about building the nation, they think of businessmen and corporations. And what's ironic is what would those businesses and corporations do without engineers and chemists and such?

And these comments:

"Self defense is more important than education.. you can do for yourself without an education (many have in this country and with great success).. you cannot survive without defending yourself"

By that logic, a caveman would be much more successful in today's culture than a doctor or an engineer.

And look at this one. It's just weird:

Go back to an early 1880 curriculum for the first 8 years
teach the basics .
Real agriculture and ecology if you have to. On real farms .
Math ,science ,history ,music ,military history .
Then you narrow it down by aptitude .
Teach to the student based on personal history .

Let's go BACK to 1880? Put 'em on a farm? Science from 1880? Does that mean no evolution, no plate tectonics, no genetics? Narrow it down by aptitude? Teach based on personal history? That entire post was wrong on so many levels.

If this country doesn't invest in the future then we will become Afghanistan.

The July 2009 Pew pol lists the percentage of US scientists who are Republican at 6% and who are conservative at 9%. I believe, from posts on this board, those numbers are vastly inflated.

Usually, parents want "more" for their children. In the past, when a child became a doctor or a scientist or even a University teacher, parents would boast and they would be so very proud. I think that maybe today's conservatives actually try to talk their kids out of going to school. I don't know what they could be thinking.

Philip Johnson, world famous architect, designed the Crystal Cathedral for the religious right. You know they had to look and look to find someone for such an undertaking. They wanted the best. It must have killed them to have to settle for a gay guy because none of them were qualified.

Well, if conservatives feel this way towards education, they will just have to get used to depending on others. A few more years and it won't even be 6%.

 

[Samson]

Isn't that the way its done in Europe? The US has the bizarre idea that all students are potential college candidates. They are not. I like Samsons idea.

I'm not an expert in the European Education systems, but I've heard that they give a test to 14 year olds that they either pass, and go on to College Prep schools, or they fail, and they go to Vocational School.

In the US, detractors of this system believe it Robs Children of Potential: That there exists the possibility that students will mature and develop higher thinking skills 14-18 that would allow them to complete college, and this justifies forceably institutionalizing EVERYONE an additional 4 years.

Not surprisingly, the education establishment is the greatest detractor of dismantaling compulsory high school.

So, to appease this argument, I don't advocate a test that would seperate the sheep from the goats: I simply end all compulsory education after the 8th grade, and then allow individuals to choose whatever they'd like to do thereafter: Work; Continue State Sponsored Vocational School; Enter College; Stay home and Watch Cartoons; Take Online Courses, all of the above.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Do you REALLY think anyone believes that "putting a bone in your nose" IS the same as putting a man on the moon?

Bones in the nose are So Last Week. You gotta keep up with the new style.

Next president of the united states of America

 

[antagon]

No one can claim a right if excercising that right imposes an obligation on someone else.

that is utter stupidity, captain.

 

[The Rabbi]

I think he's more in touch with the people than the present one.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I think he's more in touch with the people than the present one.

Both have more going in the ass then out.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I don't believe education is a "right" per se...at least in the sense that it must be provided to you.....that's nowhere in the Constitution....

However....it is a right for states to vote for public schools and school taxes and require schooling for children...in that sense you then have a "right" (not to mention the obligation) to an education...after all your parents are paying for it...

Laws could be changed to require more or less...

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

States are not the same as federal.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

States are not the same as federal.

meaning?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

States are not the same as federal.

meaning?

Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Samson]

States are not the same as federal.

meaning?

Ditto.

Most education in the USA is NOT federally Funded?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

States can do as they wish, the constitution restrains the federal government.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

States are not the same as federal.

meaning?

Ditto.

Most education in the USA is NOT federally Funded?

What are they spending $63.7 billion on?

 

[Samson]

States can do as they wish, the constitution restrains the federal government.

No.

Federal regulations/statues trump States'.

Therefore, the States must enforce Federal Laws, e.g. IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act).

 

[ScreamingEagle]

States are not the same as federal.

meaning?

Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh...your question was then just in reference to the Federal govt.?

I believe I already answered that....and agree with you...

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

States can do as they wish, the constitution restrains the federal government.

No.

Federal regulations/statues trump States'.

Therefore, the States must enforce Federal Laws, e.g. IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act).

Yeah, well those unfunded government edicts are just part of what needs to be dismantled .
Those handy capable dance troupes can go all the way to Oregon and be put to sleep.
We dont need wheel chair ramps to get on every god damn curb.
If florida wants them and the fed and florida pays for them thats one thing.

If they make Iowa pay thats something else.

 

[Samson]

meaning?

Ditto.

Most education in the USA is NOT federally Funded?

What are they spending $63.7 billion on?

Well, you can as easily research the DOEd's budget as I can:
http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/index.html

ED currently administers a budget of $63.7 billion in FY 2010 discretionary appropriations (including discretionary Pell Grant funding) and $96.8 billion in discretionary funding provided under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009—and operates programs that touch on every area and level of education. The Department's elementary and secondary programs annually serve nearly 14,000 school districts and approximately 56 million students attending some 99,000 public schools and 34,000 private schools. Department programs also provide grant, loan, and work-study assistance to more than 14 million postsecondary students.

Actually $63.7B isn't all that much when you consider that the Treasury Dept's budget to extract more taxes from us is about $13B.

If I had to guess, the main "programs" that are "annually serve nearly 14,000 school districts and approximately 56 million students attending some 99,000 public schools" is Free and Reduced Lunch.

What is interesting is they also serve 34,000 private schools.

I'm guessing these are non-parocial.

 

[Samson]

States can do as they wish, the constitution restrains the federal government.

No.

Federal regulations/statues trump States'.

Therefore, the States must enforce Federal Laws, e.g. IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act).

Yeah, well those unfunded government edicts are just part of what needs to be dismantled .
Those handy capable dance troupes can go all the way to Oregon and be put to sleep.
We dont need wheel chair ramps to get on every god damn curb.
If florida wants them and the fed and florida pays for them thats one thing.

If they make Iowa pay thats something else.

Well, if it was only the wheelchair ramps that IDEA required, then it would be comparatively VERY cheap.

The wild eyed frothing USMB members that blame all Evul on Republicans should recall Jerry Ford, who signed IDEA into law, where it remains. No Politician wants to be painted as Uncaring Toward The Disabled.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Looks like we can save a shit load of money and blame it all on the progressive shitheads .
Sound like a all around winner.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Ditto.

Most education in the USA is NOT federally Funded?

What are they spending $63.7 billion on?

Well, you can as easily research the DOEd's budget as I can:
U.S. Department of Education Budget Office

ED currently administers a budget of $63.7 billion in FY 2010 discretionary appropriations (including discretionary Pell Grant funding) and $96.8 billion in discretionary funding provided under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009—and operates programs that touch on every area and level of education. The Department's elementary and secondary programs annually serve nearly 14,000 school districts and approximately 56 million students attending some 99,000 public schools and 34,000 private schools. Department programs also provide grant, loan, and work-study assistance to more than 14 million postsecondary students.

Actually $63.7B isn't all that much when you consider that the Treasury Dept's budget to extract more taxes from us is about $13B.

If I had to guess, the main "programs" that are "annually serve nearly 14,000 school districts and approximately 56 million students attending some 99,000 public schools" is Free and Reduced Lunch.

What is interesting is they also serve 34,000 private schools.

I'm guessing these are non-parocial.

True....states pay the lions share of education costs.

Actually any state could refuse to follow federal "mandates"......but then they don't get any Federal money....