Zone1 Early Christians believed that the bread and wine used in the Eucharist were transformed into the body and blood of Christ

[Meriweather]

I don't see a separate designation in Scripture of a priesthood.

Do you see a separate designation for reverend or minister?

 

[Meriweather]

Who I am and what I do for God is what really matters.

And when you are doing something for God, do you announce, "I am a priest?"

 

[hadit]

And when you are doing something for God, do you announce, "I am a priest?"

I don't have to and see no need to advertise it. Why would you even ask such a thing? You appear to be mocking something Scripture specifically lays out.

 

[hadit]

Do you see a separate designation for reverend or minister?

I see where you're going with this and it's valid, though not completely synonymous. The Church has a bureaucratic need to designate local congregation leaders as such, and thus the titles were created. To address the question, no, I don't see them as specifically designated in Scripture, which you knew before asking.

Where I part ways with the Catholic Church is on the title of "priest", which has specific historical meaning beyond the modern application, especially on the role of intercessor between God and man, which role Jesus now completely fulfills. Do you maintain that the modern Catholic priest is on par with the Levitical priesthood?

 

[The Irish Ram]

You aren't the first person to be shocked by Jesus' command to eat his flesh and drink his blood. He lost a lot of disciples over that command

Shocked by Jesus telling the disciples to remember him? Nothing shocking there.
Jesus had many disciples. Not just the few inner core. He sent 72 of them out in one day to spread the word. Jesus lost no disciples, except for the one given over to Satan, Judas.

John 17:12 "I have kept those you gave me. Not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Wine isn't blood and bread isn't bones. The disciples knew exactly what Jesus was saying. Remember me.

1Corinthians 11:24 When he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.

It doesn't matter what liquid you use. And it doesn't matter if you use a Ritz cracker. What does matter is that you make it a point to remember our Savior.

 

[Meriweather]

I don't have to and see no need to advertise it. Why would you even ask such a thing? You appear to be mocking something Scripture specifically lays out.

You object to the term 'special priesthood', which simply describes special duties. You don't seem to object to the term 'royal priesthood' which simply describes a special population. Pointing something out is not mocking....

 

[hadit]

You object to the term 'special priesthood', which simply describes special duties. You don't seem to object to the term 'royal priesthood' which simply describes a special population. Pointing something out is not mocking....

That's because "special priesthood" was added on while royal priesthood is something God created and explicitly gave us in Scripture. I've explained I have no problem with a group being ordained with specific authority but have a problem with the title "priest" being used for something not in Scripture and how it leads to Christians denying one of the titles given them by God.

 

[Yugóm]

It's true. Early Christians believed that the bread and wine used in the Eucharist were transformed into the body and blood of Christ.

The Real Presence is taught by St. Paul. “For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 11:26-27).

The Real Presence was taught by the twelve apostles. “Let no one eat and drink of your Eucharist but those baptized in the name of the Lord; to this, too the saying of the Lord is applicable: ‘Do not give to dogs what is sacred” (Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, or Didache, 9:5).

The Real Presence was upheld by early Christians.

It was upheld by St. Ignatius of Antioch in the first century: “Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead.” (St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, circa 90 AD).

It was upheld by St. Justin Martyr in the second century: “This food we call the Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake except one who believes that the things we teach are true, and has received the washing for forgiveness of sins and for rebirth, and who lives as Christ handed down to us. For we do not receive these things as common bread or common drink; but as Jesus Christ our Savior being incarnate by God’s Word took flesh and blood for our salvation, so also we have been taught that the food consecrated by the Word of prayer which comes from him, from which our flesh and blood are nourished by transformation, is the flesh and blood of that incarnate Jesus” (St. Justin Martyr, First Apology, circa 150 AD).

It was upheld by St. Clement of Alexandria in the third century: “The one, the Watered Wine, nourishes in faith, while the other, the Spirit, leads us on to immortality. The union of both, however, – of the drink and of the Word, – is called the Eucharist, a praiseworthy and excellent gift. Those who partake of it in faith are sanctified in body and in soul. By the will of the Father, the divine mixture, man, is mystically united to the Spirit and to the Word” (St. Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor of the Children, circa 202 AD).

It was upheld by St. Cyril of Jerusalem in the fourth century: “Since then He Himself has declared and said of the Bread, (This is My Body), who shall dare to doubt any longer? And since He has affirmed and said, (This is My Blood), who shall ever hesitate, saying, that it is not His blood?” (St. Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, circa 350 AD).

Early Church Fathers Upholding Transubstantiation in Their Own Words

Transubstantiation, wherein bread and wine change into the Body and Blood of Christ in the eucharist has been part of Catholicism since the very beginning..

www.magiscenter.com

We still do! The Church has never stopped teaching this. Any valid Christian priest will tell you just the same.

 

[ding]

If my Dad takes a sip of coffee, and a bite of toast in remembrance of Christ, does it count?

Not the same thing.

 

[Yugóm]

Not the same thing.

At least we know Christ Himself had the same problem getting people on board with the Eucharist. You're not alone here.

 

[ding]

But in the process of doing that, the writer specifically states that we ARE a royal priesthood. Why do you deny that so vigorously?

If he did not mean that we are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, etc., what DID he mean?

Because he was encouraging the early Christians facing persecution. He wasn't telling them everyone is a priest.

 

[hadit]

Because he was encouraging the early Christians facing persecution. He wasn't telling them everyone is a priest.

As part of his encouragement, he was reminding them of the exalted position God gave them.

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession".

Look, you practically go berserk claiming that Jesus saying, "This is my blood" is to be taken absolutely literally at every turn and you are to exclude others from celebrating communion with you over it, but this you bend, twist, change meaning and simply insist it doesn't say what it plainly says. You deny a title God gives you, I claim it. And it's not only a priesthood, it's a ROYAL priesthood. Look that up sometime and you'll understand why it's so significant. Here's a hint, priests could not be kings and vice versa.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Not the same thing.

It absolutely is the same thing. What church have you ever been in that actually used wine during Communion?
If they can substitute grape juice for wine, why not orange juice, or cranberry juice? What about the ingredients of the bread? Could we tear off a piece of Pita bread instead of a wafer? Grape juice isn't wine and wafers aren't bread.
Do you really think our Father cares about what substitute we use in remembrance?
God will count it as righteousness on our part to remember His Son, regardless of what juice we use, or what location we are at when we do it.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Because he was encouraging the early Christians facing persecution. He wasn't telling them everyone is a priest.

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Revelation 5: 9-10 and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.​

 

[Yugóm]

It absolutely is the same thing. What church have you ever been in that actually used wine during Communion?
If they can substitute grape juice for wine, why not orange juice, or cranberry juice? What about the ingredients of the bread? Could we tear off a piece of Pita bread instead of a wafer? Grape juice isn't wine and wafers aren't bread.
Do you really think our Father cares about what substitution we use in remembrance?
God will count it as righteousness on our part to remember His Son, regardless of what juice we use, or what location we are at when we do it.

Every Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox parish uses wine and specially-baked bread. There are rules for both and they can't be substituted. In EO parishes, typically the priest's wife bakes the bread herself.

It's not just a ritual in memory of the Last Supper. It's the continuing sacrifice of our Lord.

 

[ding]

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.​

​

Revelation 5: 9-10 and with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.​

Do you believe that makes you a priest?

 

[ding]

It absolutely is the same thing. What church have you ever been in that actually used wine during Communion?
If they can substitute grape juice for wine, why not orange juice, or cranberry juice? What about the ingredients of the bread? Could we tear off a piece of Pita bread instead of a wafer? Grape juice isn't wine and wafers aren't bread.
Do you really think our Father cares about what substitute we use in remembrance?
God will count it as righteousness on our part to remember His Son, regardless of what juice we use, or what location we are at when we do it.

I don't see how it is the same. You don't believe it is the body and blood of Christ. Therefore, for you, it's not. For me it is. It's how I suffer with Him.

 

[hadit]

Do you believe that makes you a priest?

When the Bible states in several places that God has made us priests, the smart thing is to believe it. Why deny a title God has given you?

 

[ding]

As part of his encouragement, he was reminding them of the exalted position God gave them.

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession".

Look, you practically go berserk claiming that Jesus saying, "This is my blood" is to be taken absolutely literally at every turn and you are to exclude others from celebrating communion with you over it, but this you bend, twist, change meaning and simply insist it doesn't say what it plainly says. You deny a title God gives you, I claim it. And it's not only a priesthood, it's a ROYAL priesthood. Look that up sometime and you'll understand why it's so significant. Here's a hint, priests could not be kings and vice versa.

I image the first Christians were exalted. They were persecuted for their beliefs. That doesn't make you a priest in my eyes.

 

[hadit]

I image the first Christians were exalted. They were persecuted for their beliefs. That doesn't make you a priest in my eyes.

The Bible does not specify only the first Christians or only those who were violently persecuted for their beliefs are priests. It says BELIEVERS are priests, and I for one will not refuse a title given me by God. Why would you ever do something like that and spit in God's face?

Oh, and I'm not asking for YOUR opinion of the title God has given me. That's from Him and you have nothing to say about it. And this is the very reason I oppose the Catholic Church creating a class of administrators named priests.