E for Effort

[psikeyhackr]

The Honor Roll is motivational psychology rubbish.

It implies that an A in History or English Literature is as good as an A in Mathematics.

I wonder how many English teachers took 4 years of math when they were in high school.

psik

Wow. Just, wow.

An A in Math and Science is worth very little without an A in History and English Literature. Those other A's help you to understand the the impact of Math and Science on culture, and help you explain that impact to others.

We have a problem with distinguishing important from unimportant information.

When I was in high school a history teacher put on a test, "What general said 'NUTS' to the Germans in the Battle of the Bulge" rather than surrender.

But what I have not seen in most conventional history books is that Henry Ford donated money to the NAZI party during the1920s. The so called HISTORY that we get in school is really PROPAGANDA. Try finding a grade scholl or high school history book that makes a big deal of how many Indians were wiped out in the name of Manifest Destiny. What if Hitler had not come to power withou support from Henry Ford? Would there have beena Battle of the Bulge for some general to say nuts at?

Mathematics is much more objective and doesn't have the cultural bias of trying to brainwash kids to be on the side of the GOOD GUYS.

English Literature is almost as bad. It is mostly about cultural brainwashing. Spend two weeks comparing West Side Story to Romeo and Juliet. But if you listen to the songs America and Officer Krupke in West Side Story you get a look at the less savory underlayer of reality.

School is mostly designed to produce people that think what they are told.

Why can't society produce something as simple as a national recommended reading list? It would be far cheaper than schools. But what nation has ever done it? The selection would probably say a lot about what some people want to tell other people to think.

http://www.pshrink.com/how_the_world_works.html

I got Ds in religion and Cs in history but I also won a National Merit Scholarship.

I guess some people think math and science and problem solving more important than memorizing junk.

psik

 

[chanel]

How much longer will we continue to give grades?

We all know the day of "Pass/Fail" only are not too far away. And then will come the day of no grade at all, just a certificate of attendance.

We continue to make our public education system a complete and total joke.....with no punch line.

Agreed. And until then, with grade inflation, diploma mills, etc. colleges will start to use SAT's as the sole criteria for admission because that's the only objective measurable standard that can be compared. And that will HURT these kids far more than not making honor roll. Unintended consequences...

 

[psikeyhackr]

Agreed. And until then, with grade inflation, diploma mills, etc. colleges will start to use SAT's as the sole criteria for admission because that's the only objective measurable standard that can be compared. And that will HURT these kids far more than not making honor roll. Unintended consequences...

So the trick is to make knowledge interesting to kids during their grade school years regardless of what the schools and teachers do. Curiosity is a better motivator than grades. But it means the kid is internally controlled instead of externally controlled.

That is what school is really about. Producing people to be CONTROLLED.

Science fiction was more interesting and fun than most of the teachers I ever had. But sci-fi has changed since the 50s and 60s. It has become boring shallow junk. But now some of that GOOD old stuff is free on the net but all of the old stuff ain't GOOD.

The Project Gutenberg eBook of The Brain, by Alexander Blade.

The Project Gutenberg eBook of Star Surgeon, by Alan E. Nourse.

That is the first one I read at age 9.

Try Lois McMaster Bujold for some good modern stuff, but I don't think I would give it to 9 year olds. Sex and violence has gotten a bit more explicit since the 70s.

psik

 

[Samson]

And what about those kids that don't make either list? Talk about self esteem....

I really doubt those dumbasses scour the pages of the local paper, search for their names in print, and spend the summer curled in the fetal position because they didn't find it.

The only ones that really need the recognition of their name in the paper are those "on the bubble," and usually this amounts to 1% of the school population: a handful of kids who, without the slight push, may simply give up ALL effort.

If seeing their name in the paper prevents even ONE kid from giving up, then it's been worthwhile.

 

[chanel]

There are better student recognition programs. Student of the Month, Academic Awards, Peer Leadership, etc.

Just more work for the teacher. Hell - I'd nominate everyone just so no one gets his/her feelings hurt. So would most teachers.

Might as well just post a roster of kids who are enrolled. It's just stupid IMHO.

 

[Samson]

There are better student recognition programs. Student of the Month, Academic Awards, Peer Leadership, etc.

Just more work for the teacher. Hell - I'd nominate everyone just so no one gets his/her feelings hurt. So would most teachers.

Might as well just post a roster of kids who are enrolled. It's just stupid IMHO.

Its only stupid as long as you don't ever see the one kid for whom it made a marginal difference. I agree, that most teachers never know who this is, but it keeps administrators busy.

 

[chanel]

Sometimes a kind word is all it takes. Can't measure that either.

 

[Samson]

Sometimes a kind word is all it takes. Can't measure that either.

Sure.

But if you wanna kep the school open, then you catch the kids on the bubble any way you can.

 

[chanel]

Well all I know is that if we had that, I would nominate everyone, For the most part, my students give me 100 percent every day. Its the stuff they do (or don't do) at home - like study or homework that affects their grades. I would not want to be accused of "playing favorites" by an arbitrary set of criteria. Its just dumb.

I'd be more in favor of attendance awards. 99 percent of live is just showing up. And that is measurable.

 

[psikeyhackr]

And what about those kids that don't make either list? Talk about self esteem....

I really doubt those dumbasses scour the pages of the local paper, search for their names in print, and spend the summer curled in the fetal position because they didn't find it.

The problem is that the people running the schools want to CONTROL children's self esteem. AUTHORITY is supposedd to tell them what to think.

Here is an example of dumbasses:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0wk4qG2mIg[/ame]

Harvard graduates don't know that it is summer in Australia when it is snowing in Boston?

ROFL

psik

 

[Samson]

And what about those kids that don't make either list? Talk about self esteem....

I really doubt those dumbasses scour the pages of the local paper, search for their names in print, and spend the summer curled in the fetal position because they didn't find it.

The problem is that the people running the schools want to CONTROL children's self esteem. AUTHORITY is supposedd to tell them what to think.

Here is an example of dumbasses:

Yes, great example.

 

[psikeyhackr]

I really doubt those dumbasses scour the pages of the local paper, search for their names in print, and spend the summer curled in the fetal position because they didn't find it.

The problem is that the people running the schools want to CONTROL children's self esteem. AUTHORITY is supposedd to tell them what to think.

Here is an example of dumbasses:

Yes, great example.

You didn't give me time to get the link from Youtube. I am entering this on an OLPC and Opera tends to crash. LOL

Sorry Marcus.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbQ-y589mx8[/ame]

psik

 

[bodecea]

I don't think many jobs in today's society are anywhere near as challenging as teaching. Personally, I think I would rather be a prison guard.

How you guys who teach keep it together in the face of bullshit like this just astounds me.

We have many in the teaching profession in my family...my generation and the generation before me. No one is recommending it to the next generation. Who wants to be underpaid and a scapegoat?

 

[Cecilie1200]

The Honor Roll is motivational psychology rubbish.

It implies that an A in History or English Literature is as good as an A in Mathematics.

I wonder how many English teachers took 4 years of math when they were in high school.

psik

Wow. Just, wow.

An A in Math and Science is worth very little without an A in History and English Literature. Those other A's help you to understand the the impact of Math and Science on culture, and help you explain that impact to others.

Hell, they help you read the textbooks.

To paraphrase Terry Pratchett, Mathematics and Science teach people to live better. History and Literature teach people to be people.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The Honor Roll is motivational psychology rubbish.

It implies that an A in History or English Literature is as good as an A in Mathematics.

I wonder how many English teachers took 4 years of math when they were in high school.

psik

Wow. Just, wow.

An A in Math and Science is worth very little without an A in History and English Literature. Those other A's help you to understand the the impact of Math and Science on culture, and help you explain that impact to others.

We have a problem with distinguishing important from unimportant information.

When I was in high school a history teacher put on a test, "What general said 'NUTS' to the Germans in the Battle of the Bulge" rather than surrender.

But what I have not seen in most conventional history books is that Henry Ford donated money to the NAZI party during the1920s. The so called HISTORY that we get in school is really PROPAGANDA. Try finding a grade scholl or high school history book that makes a big deal of how many Indians were wiped out in the name of Manifest Destiny. What if Hitler had not come to power withou support from Henry Ford? Would there have beena Battle of the Bulge for some general to say nuts at?

Mathematics is much more objective and doesn't have the cultural bias of trying to brainwash kids to be on the side of the GOOD GUYS.

English Literature is almost as bad. It is mostly about cultural brainwashing. Spend two weeks comparing West Side Story to Romeo and Juliet. But if you listen to the songs America and Officer Krupke in West Side Story you get a look at the less savory underlayer of reality.

School is mostly designed to produce people that think what they are told.

Why can't society produce something as simple as a national recommended reading list? It would be far cheaper than schools. But what nation has ever done it? The selection would probably say a lot about what some people want to tell other people to think.

How the World Works---A Reading List

I got Ds in religion and Cs in history but I also won a National Merit Scholarship.

I guess some people think math and science and problem solving more important than memorizing junk.

psik

Well, all I can say is that reading your posts has convinced me that much more that TRULY learning History and English is important. You are a shining example of what happens when someone is allowed to believe that only Math and Science matter. Congratulations.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well all I know is that if we had that, I would nominate everyone, For the most part, my students give me 100 percent every day. Its the stuff they do (or don't do) at home - like study or homework that affects their grades. I would not want to be accused of "playing favorites" by an arbitrary set of criteria. Its just dumb.

I'd be more in favor of attendance awards. 99 percent of live is just showing up. And that is measurable.

The school system I grew up in was big on awards, and it DID give out attendance awards, because they understood how difficult it could be sometimes to not say, "Maybe I'll blow it off just this once."

While I didn't make the honor roll - despite tutoring a number of people who did - the most important lesson that school system taught me was the pure joy of competition and achievement through hard work. I think it's a shame that so many people connected to public schools now consider this a bad thing.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Well, all I can say is that reading your posts has convinced me that much more that TRULY learning History and English is important. You are a shining example of what happens when someone is allowed to believe that only Math and Science matter. Congratulations.

If I think only math and science matter then how did I know that Henry Ford donated money to the NAZI party?

CHAPTER SIX: Henry Ford and the Nazis

My point is that the so called history that we get in our so called schools is distorted propaganda. So getting A's in it is mostly a waste of time except for getting ego stroked by teachers boring enough to teach the stuff.

Did you like the video about Harvard graduates explaining winter and summer? Is that a good example of education?

psik

 

[Samson]

History and Literature teach people to be people.

Opposed to what?