Dow slumps 800 points to start the week, S&P 500 falls back into bear market territory

[iceberg]

Why do you think they want to keep it from happening? Seems it is a built in feature of the whole system.

given their actions, i don't. i think it's going as planned.

by "whoever" (i have my own guesses and at the end of the day, foreign investment in our political process needs an enema)

 

[Harpy Eagle]

given their actions, i don't. i think it's going as planned.

by "whoever" (i have my own guesses and at the end of the day, foreign investment in our political process needs an enema)

I think it has been going on far too long to blame it on foreign investment in our political process.

 

[iceberg]

I think it has been going on far too long to blame it on foreign investment in our political process.

that's a vast generalization but today, it's a huge reason for it in my own mind. but the stage has taken decades to be set and now we're coming into the next, if not final, act.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

that's a vast generalization but today, it's a huge reason for it in my own mind. but the stage has taken decades to be set and now we're coming into the next, if not final, act.

It well could be, given our current campaign financing laws there really is little that can be done to stop it. The only way to do so is for the voters to punish the politicians, but that will never happen

 

[bendog]

Here we go again! DAMNIT!

S&P 500 tumbles nearly 4% to new low for the year, closes in bear market territory

Stocks tumbled Monday, pushing the S&P 500 back into bear market territory, as the major averages came off their worst week since January.

www.cnbc.com

who cares? When have the equity markets failed to recover all lost ground and more? And the equity markets will actually start rising even as people stop spending and inflation abates, because investors will be "betting on the come."

When I was in grade school, I wondered why "the money guys" made bank in the stock market even while my father found it hard to find jobs.

 

[iceberg]

It well could be, given our current campaign financing laws there really is little that can be done to stop it. The only way to do so is for the voters to punish the politicians, but that will never happen

not if it gives them an immediate gratification, no. for minds to change, lifestyles have to be directly impacted. that's when your actions / inactions become noticeable.

human trait we all share. some of just see it coming more clearly.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

not if it gives them an immediate gratification, no. for minds to change, lifestyles have to be directly impacted. that's when your actions / inactions become noticeable.

seems in the last real recession 2008/09 lots of lifestyles were impacted and yet here we are and really nothing has changed

 

[bendog]

It well could be, given our current campaign financing laws there really is little that can be done to stop it. The only way to do so is for the voters to punish the politicians, but that will never happen

I think it was more just about putting so much money out there that "deflation" was never going to be a problem. We all should prefer inflation (which can be cured with higher interest rates, and taking dollars out of ciculation) to deflation that requires devaluing the dollar by putting more dollars in circulation and even negative interest rates.

 

[iceberg]

seems in the last real recession 2008/09 lots of lifestyles were impacted and yet here we are and really nothing has changed

which gives credence to the thought someone else is driving it. there's a reason "false news" became something so easy to hide behind.

don't notice the pieces, look at the entire picture those pieces build.

 

[Dekster]

i think its a fear in general of how stupid we are going to collectively be until an adult finally stands up and screams OK GOD DAMN IT - EVERYONE OUT OF THE POOL! and we look at things with a more critical eye.

stock markets react violently at times. the greater the immediate future doubt, the greater the negative reaction. the question is, how did people get into the position they are in lacking the fundamental knowledge needed to keep this from happening?

unless this happening is what was wanted.

given all the other questionable bullshit out gov is up to, i go door #2 in this instance.

I believe that direct stimulus began in earnest with W. and it has just been a dumpster fire response ever since. Used to be if a crisis happened, they just threw more money at the Department of Transportation for "infrastructure" and let it trickle into the economy. By my measure, the thing that caused the great recession was never fixed. They just keep throwing expensive ice packs on the fundamental problem---the financial system is fundamentally broken. They are still allowed to be too big to fail. In fact, I would say that we are probably in even worse shape now than we were in 2008 because all our 401K's and IRA's are wrapped up into the speculation even tighter. Obama let QE go on way too long, Trump started these asinine Neo-mercantile trade feuds, and Trump/Biden's solution to COVID was to give everybody a bunch of free money.

This is just the new normal. I try not to overreact to it TBH. As I have stated in some of the stockmarket threads, I have always kept an eye out for global/international funds and foreign companies to invest in as a hedge against the dollar. The market should be much higher by the time I retire, but if that lands at a time when the schizophrenia is peaking, I will at least have a back stop to get me through a few years before I have to do the mandatory 401K cashouts. I am about to list a few of my rental properties that I bought and just park the cash in a money market The ones I inherited I feel duty bound to never sell. I will probably start selling off some of my commercial investment property late next year. I will sew that cash into my rugs and sofa cushions. LOL.

 

[bendog]

I believe that direct stimulus began in earnest with W. and it has just been a dumpster fire response ever since. Used to be if a crisis happened, they just threw more money at the Department of Transportation for "infrastructure" and let it trickle into the economy. By my measure, the thing that caused the great recession was never fixed. They just keep throwing expensive ice packs on the fundamental problem---the financial system is fundamentally broken. They are still allowed to be too big to fail. In fact, I would say that we are probably in even worse shape now than we were in 2008 because all our 401K's and IRA's are wrapped up into the speculation even tighter. Obama let QE go on way too long, Trump started these asinine Neo-mercantile trade feuds, and Trump/Biden's solution to COVID was to give everybody a bunch of free money.

This is just the new normal. I try not to overreact to it TBH. As I have stated in some of the stockmarket threads, I have always kept an eye out for global/international funds and foreign companies to invest in as a hedge against the dollar. The market should be much higher by the time I retire, but if that lands at a time when the schizophrenia is peaking, I will at least have a back stop to get me through a few years before I have to do the mandatory 401K cashouts. I am about to list a few of my rental properties that I bought and just park the cash in a money market The ones I inherited I feel duty bound to never sell. I will probably start selling off some of my commercial investment property late next year. I will sew that cash into my rugs and sofa cushions. LOL.

Yeah, I agree that W's admin was sort of a watershed. We began totally ignoring deficits and allowing tax cuts to gin up markets, while the Fed did nothing because there was no inflation. It seems that the reason there was no inflation was that "on average" working Joes didn't get much of a tax cut, so spending was not inflationary, while "on avg" the 1% made out very well, and the top 1% didn't pay any taxes, but most of the money was put in investments, which only served to create the bubbles.

 

[Dekster]

Yeah, I agree that W's admin was sort of a watershed. We began totally ignoring deficits and allowing tax cuts to gin up markets, while the Fed did nothing because there was no inflation. It seems that the reason there was no inflation was that "on average" working Joes didn't get much of a tax cut, so spending was not inflationary, while "on avg" the 1% made out very well, and the top 1% didn't pay any taxes, but most of the money was put in investments, which only served to create the bubbles.

The inflation has been in the stockmarket. That is why PE's are out of whack compared to historical averages. China banning crypto has also left people without the newest version of the old "Buy Gold" life boat. Gonna be ugly. Starting to feel like summer of 2008 pre-crash all over again.

 

[bendog]

The inflation has been in the stockmarket. That is why PE's are out of whack compared to historical averages. China banning crypto has also left people without the newest version of the old "Buy Gold" life boat. Gonna be ugly. Starting to feel like summer of 2008 pre-crash all over again.

Exactly so. Recovery from recessions has been weaker for workers since W partially because there's so much money the 1% has to invest and so few places. So P/E is sort of something only your grandfather paid attention to.

I worry that inflation will be difficult because there's no way for rates alone to kill the demand for oil, and there's only so much being drilled and melted. Food also faces increased demand. Maybe not so much for veggies, domestically.

 

[yidnar]

The inflation has been in the stockmarket. That is why PE's are out of whack compared to historical averages. China banning crypto has also left people without the newest version of the old "Buy Gold" life boat. Gonna be ugly. Starting to feel like summer of 2008 pre-crash all over again.

it may be worse than the 2008 recession .. remember in 08 we didnt have the inflation and supply chain issues we have today ..

 

[iamwhatiseem]

More important....... The DOW is in an 8 month long slump.
This is the first time since 2007 this has happened.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Biden's had barely been in office 6 weeks when he pumped $2 trillion into the economy, which did nothing but overheat the economy, and allowed inflation to hit the after-burners like never before. So I guess we shouldn't be surprised that the entire economy is now going to crash and the stock market is just part of the disaster that's ahead.

 

[Dekster]

Exactly so. Recovery from recessions has been weaker for workers since W partially because there's so much money the 1% has to invest and so few places. So P/E is sort of something only your grandfather paid attention to.

I worry that inflation will be difficult because there's no way for rates alone to kill the demand for oil, and there's only so much being drilled and melted. Food also faces increased demand. Maybe not so much for veggies, domestically.

I still pay attention to PE's. It is my shorthand rule of thumb measure to see how much irrational exuberance there is into a company's current share price. Some of what is going on is people who took their money out of bonds when they dropped to the floor are now likely pulling back from stocks and preparing to move back into bonds.

Anyway, mergers and acquisitions have been the primary investment for rollover profits since the late 90's as opposed to organically growing companies with new things and buildings and employees. Just buy someone else's instead for instant investor gratification.

As for main street inflation, we really need a recession as ugh as it sounds. The house beside me sold for 75%ish more than its assessed tax value last year, was under contract in like 3 days after listing in a bidding war. There is nothing special about that house. People need to be smacked back to reality.

 

[Flash]

Trump handed Potatohead a post pandemic economic recovery, low inflation and low fuel prices.

A year and a half later we are on the verge of a recession with astronomical inflation, record fuel prices and a crashing stock market.

We all told these Moon bats that Joe Potaothead would be a disaster. His record was that he never got anything right in his life. But the idiots didn't listen and now we are all fucked.

 

[yidnar]

i'm afraid as people are being forced to cut back because of higher food fuel and rent costs companies will soon be taking a hit [especially companies that produce luxury items] and said companies will soon start laying off .... i'm afraid the unemployment rate is going to go up ...way up ... consumer confidence is at record lows and majority of people dont believe the leadership in the oval office can be relied upon to do whats necessary to right the ship ... i doubt Biden is going to cut business and energy busting regs to stimulate the economy ...

Consumer Confidence Measure Hits All-Time Low

Washington, DC, Oct. 28, 2008--The Conference Board said Tuesday that consumer confidence plunged in October to its lowest on record, as stock markets dropped sharply and companies laid off workers.

www.floordaily.net

 

[initforme]

Cash is king.