Does The US Really Want Socialism?

[alang1216]

We wouldn’t be asking if the repubs hadn’t waged war on unions. Now we have stagnant wages and healthcare incredibly expensive.

The Democrat Party ruled America from 2009 to 2017, and the Unions had totally free reign.

So why were unions providing just stagnant wages?

Dems occupied the WH but not Congress for that time.

 

[Mac1958]

Socialism - according to Marxist theory - is just a transitional step from capitalism to communism which has been responsible for 100 million deaths over the last century.

As usual, it depends on definitions, if this is a serious discussion.

REAL socialism, like Venezuela? No.

Euro-socialism, like Germany, Canada, Australia, Finland? People are obviously warming up to it.

If the Right can't get real and show that it understands the difference pretty soon, it will be too late to stop it. And by the way, the "slippery slope" argument isn't going to be enough. You'll need a more intelligent argument.
.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Some things people do better on their own
Other things are best done as a society

Providing services and assistance to We the People is not Socialism

Indeed, those things that benefit all citizens are not socialism, but a proper application of the general welfare clause.

On the other hand, those things that benefit specific protected groups (unconstitutional from the start) to the forced detriment of others is socialism.

 

[Polishprince]

We wouldn’t be asking if the repubs hadn’t waged war on unions. Now we have stagnant wages and healthcare incredibly expensive.

The Democrat Party ruled America from 2009 to 2017, and the Unions had totally free reign.

So why were unions providing just stagnant wages?

Dems occupied the WH but not Congress for that time.

The Dems had both houses of Congress for 2 years, and one house for another 4 years during the Obama years

 

[rightwinger]

We wouldn’t be asking if the repubs hadn’t waged war on unions. Now we have stagnant wages and healthcare incredibly expensive.

The Democrat Party ruled America from 2009 to 2017, and the Unions had totally free reign.

So why were unions providing just stagnant wages?

Unions have been on a decline for 40 years

2009 to 2017 saw the rise of poorly named “ Right to Work “ laws

The Right to Work , is the right to work without paying tribute to the bosses of Big Labor. Why should Hoffa get a taste out of every worker's wages?

And every workers wages and benefits have suffered. We didn’t talk socialism when workers had power.

Workers actually have MORE power now. When the union bosses had full 100% exclusive rights to bargain, the workers had zero. And the workers didn't even have the right to tell thugs like Hoffa to "fuck off".

When Unions ruled the roost in Youngstown, the steel mills were forced to close. Ditto for unionized retailers like A&P, they just couldn't keep up.

MORE power?

Then why has their pay, benefits, job security and worker protections been cut?

 

[rightwinger]

We wouldn’t be asking if the repubs hadn’t waged war on unions. Now we have stagnant wages and healthcare incredibly expensive.

The Democrat Party ruled America from 2009 to 2017, and the Unions had totally free reign.

So why were unions providing just stagnant wages?

Dems occupied the WH but not Congress for that time.

The Dems had both houses of Congress for 2 years, and one house for another 4 years during the Obama years

Google Filibuster and look at McConnells record

 

[Polishprince]

The Democrat Party ruled America from 2009 to 2017, and the Unions had totally free reign.

So why were unions providing just stagnant wages?

Unions have been on a decline for 40 years

2009 to 2017 saw the rise of poorly named “ Right to Work “ laws

The Right to Work , is the right to work without paying tribute to the bosses of Big Labor. Why should Hoffa get a taste out of every worker's wages?

And every workers wages and benefits have suffered. We didn’t talk socialism when workers had power.

Workers actually have MORE power now. When the union bosses had full 100% exclusive rights to bargain, the workers had zero. And the workers didn't even have the right to tell thugs like Hoffa to "fuck off".

When Unions ruled the roost in Youngstown, the steel mills were forced to close. Ditto for unionized retailers like A&P, they just couldn't keep up.

MORE power?

Then why has their pay, benefits, job security and worker protections been cut?

Actually, wages are RISING under Trump. The signs in front of proud Scab employers seem to be promising higher and higher wages.

 

[rightwinger]

Some things people do better on their own
Other things are best done as a society

Providing services and assistance to We the People is not Socialism

Indeed, those things that benefit all citizens are not socialism, but a proper application of the general welfare clause.

On the other hand, those things that benefit specific protected groups (unconstitutional from the start) to the forced detriment of others is socialism.

It is impossible to pass legislation that does not help one group more than another.

 

[rightwinger]

Unions have been on a decline for 40 years

2009 to 2017 saw the rise of poorly named “ Right to Work “ laws

The Right to Work , is the right to work without paying tribute to the bosses of Big Labor. Why should Hoffa get a taste out of every worker's wages?

And every workers wages and benefits have suffered. We didn’t talk socialism when workers had power.

Workers actually have MORE power now. When the union bosses had full 100% exclusive rights to bargain, the workers had zero. And the workers didn't even have the right to tell thugs like Hoffa to "fuck off".

When Unions ruled the roost in Youngstown, the steel mills were forced to close. Ditto for unionized retailers like A&P, they just couldn't keep up.

MORE power?

Then why has their pay, benefits, job security and worker protections been cut?

Actually, wages are RISING under Trump. The signs in front of proud Scab employers seem to be promising higher and higher wages.

With 3.7 percent unemployment and a 40 percent tax cut to employers, wages should be increasing in the 4-6 percent range rather than 2-3 percent

 

[Dick Foster]

Some things people do better on their own
Other things are best done as a society

Providing services and assistance to We the People is not Socialism

It seems to me a large portion of our so called society including yourself have collectively shoved their heads up their asses.

 

[rightwinger]

Some things people do better on their own
Other things are best done as a society

Providing services and assistance to We the People is not Socialism

It seems to me a large portion of our so called society including yourself have collectively shoved their heads up their asses.

How so?

 

[Care4all]

We wouldn’t be asking if the repubs hadn’t waged war on unions. Now we have stagnant wages and healthcare incredibly expensive.

The Democrat Party ruled America from 2009 to 2017, and the Unions had totally free reign.

So why were unions providing just stagnant wages?

Unions have been on a decline for 40 years

2009 to 2017 saw the rise of poorly named “ Right to Work “ laws

nevermind that Republicans ran the House and Senate from 2010 thru 2018, not Democrats?

 

[BlindBoo]

Yep. I've been pay SS taxes my entire life and I expect to retire and collect my full benefits.

Do I want to change our form of government from a Constitutional Republic to a virtual authoritarian dictatorship like we've seen across the globe as example of Socialism. Nah, who would?

 

[BlindBoo]

Socialism - according to Marxist theory - is just a transitional step from capitalism to communism which has been responsible for 100 million deaths over the last century.

As usual, it depends on definitions, if this is a serious discussion.

REAL socialism, like Venezuela? No.

Euro-socialism, like Germany, Canada, Australia, Finland? People are obviously warming up to it.

If the Right can't get real and show that it understands the difference pretty soon, it will be too late to stop it. And by the way, the "slippery slope" argument isn't going to be enough. You'll need a more intelligent argument.
.

Good point.

 

[BluesLegend]

There is nothing stopping Dem's from writing a check to government today to fund social programs. Go ahead lead by example Dem's, shame the right into joining you. No? Yeah just as we thought its all faux rage.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Some things people do better on their own
Other things are best done as a society

Providing services and assistance to We the People is not Socialism

I can agree a Massive Welfare State of Freebies isn't socialism per se. But the massive amount of taxes needed for the "everything is free" society makes it impractical for people to take the risks needed for innovated new ventures.

And sometimes makes it impossible to get anyone except the government to do

Nothing is free. The ACA was not free, and the Republican conservatives objected to making end users pay for health insurance.

Those without health insurance end up in the ER, when what might have been easily cured, becomes a serious issue. Of course the scafflaw will get a bill, but without insurance the amount will be enormous and those bills remain outstanding; thus local taxpayers pick up the costs.

Common sense suggests if every man, women and child is covered by a single payer system, for annual age appropriate physicals, and preventative medicines (polio vaccines for example) the costs will be reduced and the cost-benefits (early diagnosis) will pay for itself.

 

[Dick Foster]

Some things people do better on their own
Other things are best done as a society

Providing services and assistance to We the People is not Socialism

It seems to me a large portion of our so called society including yourself have collectively shoved their heads up their asses.

How so?

If you need to be told, it's already too late.

 

[otto105]

The idea of "free stuff" - which really isn't free - has long been popular with those who have less and envy or resent other's success, but do America's socialists really understand what it is?

Socialism - according to Marxist theory - is just a transitional step from capitalism to communism which has been responsible for 100 million deaths over the last century. So it is important to understand that those who believe socialism is not so bad are either ignorant, just kidding themselves, or so resentful that they just don't care.

100 Years. 100 Million Lives. Think Twice. | Opinion | The Harvard Crimson

What idea of free stuff are you touting or questioning?

The idea that tax cuts are free or pay for themselves?

 

[Polishprince]

Common sense suggests if every man, women and child is covered by a single payer system, for annual age appropriate physicals, and preventative medicines (polio vaccines for example) the costs will be reduced and the cost-benefits (early diagnosis) will pay for itself.

This isn't "common sense" at all, because it assumes that all health care is equal so it should all be assigned the same price point of "zero".


The problem with a single payer system is that it doesn't give the customer a real choice. Some people may want and need a quality doctor like Marcus Welby, Gregory House or Harvey Cushing. Others might be satisfied with a less competent type sawbones like Nick Riviera or Vinnie Boombatz. A system which allows patients to choose their own doctors and price points is an American way of doing it.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Some things people do better on their own
Other things are best done as a society

Providing services and assistance to We the People is not Socialism

Are you for or against Gov't controlled industries/companies?