Does the bible promote incest?

[Care4all]

Before Leviticus it was accepted to populate the Earth, after Leviticus, it was no longer acceptable.... that's all I know...

 

[tinydancer]

Not so sure about Solomon, But Abraham married his sister Sarah and freely admitted it in Genesis 20:12

And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

I don't think there can be much doubt about incest here, and not much doubt God condoned it.

It seems odd though because it was my understanding that incest (to Christians at least) is both immoral and a sin.

But we're talking the Old Testament here. You know. The "prequel" to the NT.

The world changes with the coming of Jesus. It's really that simple. That's why we aren't "Part Deux" of "Old Testament Believers; the sequel" or OT II people.

Did Jesus ever say anything forbidding incest?

Incest became forbidden in the OT. Think it was Leviticus. Sort of a weird thing with the Word. You have to be able to distinguish pre commandment and post commandment. So the behavior seen before Jehovah says "don't try that shit again" isn't a sin.

Now after he gives the smackdown, you're toast if you screw up. Bad things happened to people in the OT when they messed up.

Wasn't a whole lot of plea deals that worked. Smiting and all that.

 

[Agit8r]

I was just reading another thread here about the Song of Solomon. I haven't read it for a while but when I did I noticed the groom repeatedly referred to his bride as his sister and in relatively (for the time period) explicit sexual ways.

It does explicitly forbid mother-son, father-daughter stuff. But brother-sister stuff is a bit fuzzier, what with Abraham and Sarah. And of course cousin-shtupping was the norm. Basically, people in those days were very primitive, with minimal understanding of how reproduction and genetics worked. And one must assume that this cousin-shtupping didn't only retard the scientific development of the region, but also lead to the absurd tales meant to teach "morality"

 

[tinydancer]

Before Leviticus it was accepted to populate the Earth, after Leviticus, it was no longer acceptable.... that's all I know...

Thanks I thought it was Leviticus too.

 

[Ravi]

I was just reading another thread here about the Song of Solomon. I haven't read it for a while but when I did I noticed the groom repeatedly referred to his bride as his sister and in relatively (for the time period) explicit sexual ways.

Ravi, this speaks of the spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ who is the Bridegroom in Solomon's Song. ( The Believers - who are the church - the body of Christ - are His Bride)

When He says, Open to me my sister, my love, my dove, my perfect one...... in Solomon's Song 5: 2 - He uses the word sister in reference to a spiritual relationship - He is the firstborn among many brethren. When he says, my love - he is speaking to the object of His heart's devotion, when he uses the words, my dove - He is speaking to the one who has been endued with many gifts and graces of the Holy Spirit - the Holy Spirit is represented by the dove, when he speaks calling her my perfect one - He is speaking of the born again Believer who is washed, renewed and cleansed by His precious Blood at the cross.

My husband, who married me, is my brother in Christ as he is a born again Christian. Is he blood related to me? No. I hope that answers your question and part 5 and 6 will be coming up later so keep reading the thread for the conclusion of the Book.

Why then was the bride seeking the groom at night on her bed?

Your translation doesn't actually make sense.

You must be born again, Ravi. The Holy Spirit is the author and the revealer of the Scriptures. How can you possibly understand things of the Spirit when you are not born of the Spirit? (yet)

ah, you can only pretend that those rather sexual and flirty passages were just God's love of mankind if you are born again?

 

[BULLDOG]

Not so sure about Solomon, But Abraham married his sister Sarah and freely admitted it in Genesis 20:12

And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

I don't think there can be much doubt about incest here, and not much doubt God condoned it.

It seems odd though because it was my understanding that incest (to Christians at least) is both immoral and a sin.

But we're talking the Old Testament here. You know. The "prequel" to the NT.

The world changes with the coming of Jesus. It's really that simple. That's why we aren't "Part Deux" of "Old Testament Believers; the sequel" or OT II people.

I am well aware of the "change" between the old and new testament. However, the changes were all noted and explained by Jesus in the New Testament. Where did he say that particular situation had changed? I am aware of 1 Corinthians 5 where a man sleeping with his fathers wife was condemned, but that would have been condemned in the old testament just as quickly.

 

[BULLDOG]

Not so sure about Solomon, But Abraham married his sister Sarah and freely admitted it in Genesis 20:12

And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

I don't think there can be much doubt about incest here, and not much doubt God condoned it.

It seems odd though because it was my understanding that incest (to Christians at least) is both immoral and a sin.

But we're talking the Old Testament here. You know. The "prequel" to the NT.

The world changes with the coming of Jesus. It's really that simple. That's why we aren't "Part Deux" of "Old Testament Believers; the sequel" or OT II people.

Did Jesus ever say anything forbidding incest?

Incest became forbidden in the OT. Think it was Leviticus. Sort of a weird thing with the Word. You have to be able to distinguish pre commandment and post commandment. So the behavior seen before Jehovah says "don't try that shit again" isn't a sin.

Now after he gives the smackdown, you're toast if you screw up. Bad things happened to people in the OT when they messed up.

Wasn't a whole lot of plea deals that worked. Smiting and all that.

Can't find that. You got a scripture or passage where incest was smacked down in the old testament?

 

[Ravi]

Before Leviticus it was accepted to populate the Earth, after Leviticus, it was no longer acceptable.... that's all I know...

I just scanned through the list and apparently Leviticus forbid all incest with the possible exception of father and daughter. That's even more bizarre but I admit I could have missed something.

 

[tinydancer]

Got it. The Lord breaks it down pretty good here when he lays down this law.

Pretty detailed.


Leviticus 18:6-18New International Version (NIV)
6 “‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord.

7 “‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father.

9 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 “‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative.

13 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative.

14 “‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her.

16 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17 “‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 “‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

It's laid out in detail who you better not be screwing.

Leviticus 18 6-18 - No one is to approach any close - Bible Gateway

 

[tinydancer]

Not so sure about Solomon, But Abraham married his sister Sarah and freely admitted it in Genesis 20:12

And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

I don't think there can be much doubt about incest here, and not much doubt God condoned it.

It seems odd though because it was my understanding that incest (to Christians at least) is both immoral and a sin.

But we're talking the Old Testament here. You know. The "prequel" to the NT.

The world changes with the coming of Jesus. It's really that simple. That's why we aren't "Part Deux" of "Old Testament Believers; the sequel" or OT II people.

Did Jesus ever say anything forbidding incest?

Incest became forbidden in the OT. Think it was Leviticus. Sort of a weird thing with the Word. You have to be able to distinguish pre commandment and post commandment. So the behavior seen before Jehovah says "don't try that shit again" isn't a sin.

Now after he gives the smackdown, you're toast if you screw up. Bad things happened to people in the OT when they messed up.

Wasn't a whole lot of plea deals that worked. Smiting and all that.

Can't find that. You got a scripture or passage where incest was smacked down in the old testament?

Just put it up.

 

[BULLDOG]

It seems odd though because it was my understanding that incest (to Christians at least) is both immoral and a sin.

But we're talking the Old Testament here. You know. The "prequel" to the NT.

The world changes with the coming of Jesus. It's really that simple. That's why we aren't "Part Deux" of "Old Testament Believers; the sequel" or OT II people.

Did Jesus ever say anything forbidding incest?

Incest became forbidden in the OT. Think it was Leviticus. Sort of a weird thing with the Word. You have to be able to distinguish pre commandment and post commandment. So the behavior seen before Jehovah says "don't try that shit again" isn't a sin.

Now after he gives the smackdown, you're toast if you screw up. Bad things happened to people in the OT when they messed up.

Wasn't a whole lot of plea deals that worked. Smiting and all that.

Can't find that. You got a scripture or passage where incest was smacked down in the old testament?

Just put it up.

Thank you.

 

[tinydancer]

Before Leviticus it was accepted to populate the Earth, after Leviticus, it was no longer acceptable.... that's all I know...

I just scanned through the list and apparently Leviticus forbid all incest with the possible exception of father and daughter. That's even more bizarre but I admit I could have missed something.

Father and daughter / Mother and son was back in Genesis I think. Jehovah nailed that one early on.

 

[HUGGY]

I was just reading another thread here about the Song of Solomon. I haven't read it for a while but when I did I noticed the groom repeatedly referred to his bride as his sister and in relatively (for the time period) explicit sexual ways.

The old testament does. Just another reason why Jews and Christians are creepy.

 

[tinydancer]

But we're talking the Old Testament here. You know. The "prequel" to the NT.

The world changes with the coming of Jesus. It's really that simple. That's why we aren't "Part Deux" of "Old Testament Believers; the sequel" or OT II people.

Did Jesus ever say anything forbidding incest?

Incest became forbidden in the OT. Think it was Leviticus. Sort of a weird thing with the Word. You have to be able to distinguish pre commandment and post commandment. So the behavior seen before Jehovah says "don't try that shit again" isn't a sin.

Now after he gives the smackdown, you're toast if you screw up. Bad things happened to people in the OT when they messed up.

Wasn't a whole lot of plea deals that worked. Smiting and all that.

Can't find that. You got a scripture or passage where incest was smacked down in the old testament?

Just put it up.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

 

[tinydancer]

I think whether you are a believer or not you have to look at pre law and post law in the OT. I mean some really funky stuff happened in the OT till Jehovah steps in and goes "OK, cut that shit out or you're toast. Here's my new law."

Even then not everyone was a happy camper and wanted to obey. Follow Jehovah for a King or two, back to Baal and get nuked by Jehovah, back to Jehovah for a few Kings, then back to Baal again. And you're reading it white knuckle screaming " oh you're so dead you freaking idiot!".

I tell you I need antacid pills more than a few times when I'm studying the OT.

 

[tinydancer]

I was just reading another thread here about the Song of Solomon. I haven't read it for a while but when I did I noticed the groom repeatedly referred to his bride as his sister and in relatively (for the time period) explicit sexual ways.

The old testament does. Just another reason why Jews and Christians are creepy.

Do tell. Considering the Old Testament was before Christianity how can you throw Christians in there willy nilly?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Before Leviticus it was accepted to populate the Earth, after Leviticus, it was no longer acceptable.... that's all I know...

I just scanned through the list and apparently Leviticus forbid all incest with the possible exception of father and daughter. That's even more bizarre but I admit I could have missed something.

Wrong. All manner of incest is forbidden and called sin in the Bible.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I was just reading another thread here about the Song of Solomon. I haven't read it for a while but when I did I noticed the groom repeatedly referred to his bride as his sister and in relatively (for the time period) explicit sexual ways.

Ravi, this speaks of the spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ who is the Bridegroom in Solomon's Song. ( The Believers - who are the church - the body of Christ - are His Bride)

When He says, Open to me my sister, my love, my dove, my perfect one...... in Solomon's Song 5: 2 - He uses the word sister in reference to a spiritual relationship - He is the firstborn among many brethren. When he says, my love - he is speaking to the object of His heart's devotion, when he uses the words, my dove - He is speaking to the one who has been endued with many gifts and graces of the Holy Spirit - the Holy Spirit is represented by the dove, when he speaks calling her my perfect one - He is speaking of the born again Believer who is washed, renewed and cleansed by His precious Blood at the cross.

My husband, who married me, is my brother in Christ as he is a born again Christian. Is he blood related to me? No. I hope that answers your question and part 5 and 6 will be coming up later so keep reading the thread for the conclusion of the Book.

Why then was the bride seeking the groom at night on her bed?

Your translation doesn't actually make sense.

You must be born again, Ravi. The Holy Spirit is the author and the revealer of the Scriptures. How can you possibly understand things of the Spirit when you are not born of the Spirit? (yet)

ah, you can only pretend that those rather sexual and flirty passages were just God's love of mankind if you are born again?

Pretend? No. It is clearly not speaking of carnality or sex. Your mind needs to be renewed, Ravi.

Your mind in it's current state is incapable of receiving the purity of the message - you are not able to comprehend purity of scripture while holding fast to impure thoughts. It won't work. You must be born again and have your mind renewed with the Word of God.

It would be like taking a recipe for a certain bread and baking it in an unclean oven not realizing that because there is excrement smeared along the sides / top/ and below the oven - the entire loaf is now going to come out smelling of excrement - unfit for human consumption - that is not at all what the person who wrote recipe had in mind.

What must you do to get the right results? Clean out the oven of all filth. A clean, empty, untainted oven!

Then the bread bakes and out comes fresh baked bread according to recipe instructions. (an analogy)

In your case - what must you do? Repent of your sins, admit you are a sinner and call upon the Lord Jesus Christ to save you. You must be born again. Then the LORD will remove the heart of stone, cleanse you, give you a new heart of flesh and a mind that desires to serve Him and obey Him,, a mind that will be able to receive truth and that will be teachable and Jesus will begin to minister to you by His Holy Spirit.