Does Spanking kids Work?

[asterism]

People tend to talk about what they do with their children instead of asking experts or people that have well behaved, well performing kids what works best. People will comment unsolicited on how great your kids are but rarely do they ask for tips or what specifically you do. There is definitely a stigma still on asking for help with raising children or they think there is just something wrong with their child.

"Experts," like Dr. Spock? That's part of the problem.

However, I'm constantly asked "how do you do it?" by parents and my kids aren't exactly angels but they are known to be rambunctious, happy, and polite when they need to be. I think I get asked for parenting advice because of the way kids who are not mine respond to me in my scouting and other volunteer roles.

I've found that MOST (emphasis on most) dysfunctional kids are the results of parents that can't commit to actual parenting. They are too tired, too busy, or too disinterested in doing the hard part - actively parenting children non-stop every single day. They don't give 10 parts praise, 3 parts constructive criticism, and 1 part punishment. They don't manage their kids to set them up for success so that they can encourage them and they ignore the times the kids failed because it makes them feel bad that their little one will miss a movie/party/fun activity.

Of course these are mostly the same failed parents of screw-ups that will abhor spanking and all forms of it while emotionally isolating their children. Spanking won't help these kids because they are manipulating their parents.

Never read Dr Spock. I mean like going to family counseling and yes books for back up and just keeping an eye out for things other parents seem to be doing that produce great results. One of the best tips I ever got for my girls came from another dad who was not embarrassed to take his daughters shopping for underwear. I agree with your assessment on dysfunctional kids 100%

I will only disagree on the "family counseling" aspect. While there are some very excellent resources out there, most "family counseling" is terrible - all theory and no practice, usually facilitated by someone who doesn't have kids.

I know this thread started as a discussion on spanking, but I think the conversation has evolved into the broader concept of parenting in general. Other than a few outliers, the vast majority of those who support spanking are those who rarely use it. That should be encouraging.

 

[asterism]

“"When I was about 20 years old, I met an old pastor’s wife who told me that when she was young and had her first child, she didn’t believe in striking children, although spanking kids with a switch pulled from a tree was standard punishment at the time. But one day, when her son was four or five, he did something that she felt warranted a spanking–the first in his life. She told him that he would have to go outside himself and find a switch for her to hit him with.

The boy was gone a long time. And when he came back in, he was crying. He said to her, “Mama, I couldn’t find a switch, but here’s a rock that you can throw at me.”

All of a sudden the mother understood how the situation felt from the child’s point of view: that if my mother wants to hurt me, then it makes no difference what she does it with; she might as well do it with a stone.

And the mother took the boy into her lap and they both cried. Then she laid the rock on a shelf in the kitchen to remind herself forever: never violence. And that is something I think everyone should keep in mind. Because if violence begins in the nursery one can raise children into violence.””

— Astrid Lindgren, author of Pippi Longstocking, 1978 Peace Prize Acceptance Speech

I tried that on my Grammy (I was well-read for a 9 year old) and she made it clear that she didn't want to hurt me, she wanted to get my attention. She had me sit next to a tree for the morning, refused me pecan pie for lunch dessert, and wouldn't let me drive the tractor with Granddad that day.

The next day I was caught throwing acorns at the cattle. She gave me a choice of yesterday's punishment or the switch. I got her a good switch (not too long but not too short) and it was done in 5 minutes. Lesson learned, on with the day, and I drove the tractor by myself for the first time. I got peach cobbler for lunch dessert and I never forgot it.

 

[GISMYS]

“"When I was about 20 years old, I met an old pastor’s wife who told me that when she was young and had her first child, she didn’t believe in striking children, although spanking kids with a switch pulled from a tree was standard punishment at the time. But one day, when her son was four or five, he did something that she felt warranted a spanking–the first in his life. She told him that he would have to go outside himself and find a switch for her to hit him with.

The boy was gone a long time. And when he came back in, he was crying. He said to her, “Mama, I couldn’t find a switch, but here’s a rock that you can throw at me.”

All of a sudden the mother understood how the situation felt from the child’s point of view: that if my mother wants to hurt me, then it makes no difference what she does it with; she might as well do it with a stone.

And the mother took the boy into her lap and they both cried. Then she laid the rock on a shelf in the kitchen to remind herself forever: never violence. And that is something I think everyone should keep in mind. Because if violence begins in the nursery one can raise children into violence.””

— Astrid Lindgren, author of Pippi Longstocking, 1978 Peace Prize Acceptance Speech

I tried that on my Grammy (I was well-read for a 9 year old) and she made it clear that she didn't want to hurt me, she wanted to get my attention. She had me sit next to a tree for the morning, refused me pecan pie for lunch dessert, and wouldn't let me drive the tractor with Granddad that day.

The next day I was caught throwing acorns at the cattle. She gave me a choice of yesterday's punishment or the switch. I got her a good switch (not too long but not too short) and it was done in 5 minutes. Lesson learned, on with the day, and I drove the tractor by myself for the first time. I got peach cobbler for lunch dessert and I never forgot it.

I saw my little brother get spankings for telling lies so I told him if you are going to lie then stick to your story. Later mon told us ,:don't eat those plums they may have worms" but we ate them and mom asked ,did you boys eat those plums? I said yes I did but my little brother said no!! Honest positive no with plum skins on his front teeth. Wow did he get another spanking!!! DON'T LIE!!!

 

[asterism]

“"When I was about 20 years old, I met an old pastor’s wife who told me that when she was young and had her first child, she didn’t believe in striking children, although spanking kids with a switch pulled from a tree was standard punishment at the time. But one day, when her son was four or five, he did something that she felt warranted a spanking–the first in his life. She told him that he would have to go outside himself and find a switch for her to hit him with.

The boy was gone a long time. And when he came back in, he was crying. He said to her, “Mama, I couldn’t find a switch, but here’s a rock that you can throw at me.”

All of a sudden the mother understood how the situation felt from the child’s point of view: that if my mother wants to hurt me, then it makes no difference what she does it with; she might as well do it with a stone.

And the mother took the boy into her lap and they both cried. Then she laid the rock on a shelf in the kitchen to remind herself forever: never violence. And that is something I think everyone should keep in mind. Because if violence begins in the nursery one can raise children into violence.””

— Astrid Lindgren, author of Pippi Longstocking, 1978 Peace Prize Acceptance Speech

I tried that on my Grammy (I was well-read for a 9 year old) and she made it clear that she didn't want to hurt me, she wanted to get my attention. She had me sit next to a tree for the morning, refused me pecan pie for lunch dessert, and wouldn't let me drive the tractor with Granddad that day.

The next day I was caught throwing acorns at the cattle. She gave me a choice of yesterday's punishment or the switch. I got her a good switch (not too long but not too short) and it was done in 5 minutes. Lesson learned, on with the day, and I drove the tractor by myself for the first time. I got peach cobbler for lunch dessert and I never forgot it.

I saw my little brother get spankings for telling lies so I told him if you are going to lie then stick to your story. Later mon told us ,:don't eat those plums they may have worms" but we ate them and mom asked ,did you boys eat those plums? I said yes I did but my little brother said no!! Honest positive no with plum skins on his front teeth. Wow did he get another spanking!!! DON'T LIE!!!

I hope you understand that "spare the rod spoil the child" is a euphemism and that not every child needs to be spanked.

 

[Michelle420]

“"When I was about 20 years old, I met an old pastor’s wife who told me that when she was young and had her first child, she didn’t believe in striking children, although spanking kids with a switch pulled from a tree was standard punishment at the time. But one day, when her son was four or five, he did something that she felt warranted a spanking–the first in his life. She told him that he would have to go outside himself and find a switch for her to hit him with.

The boy was gone a long time. And when he came back in, he was crying. He said to her, “Mama, I couldn’t find a switch, but here’s a rock that you can throw at me.”

All of a sudden the mother understood how the situation felt from the child’s point of view: that if my mother wants to hurt me, then it makes no difference what she does it with; she might as well do it with a stone.

And the mother took the boy into her lap and they both cried. Then she laid the rock on a shelf in the kitchen to remind herself forever: never violence. And that is something I think everyone should keep in mind. Because if violence begins in the nursery one can raise children into violence.””

— Astrid Lindgren, author of Pippi Longstocking, 1978 Peace Prize Acceptance Speech

such wisdom,understanding,knowledge, how did little man get so much wiser than ALMIGHTY GOD????

Interpretation of God is relative to who you ask.

To me God is Love

 

[FA_Q2]

America has a cultural problem in that many people believe that being a good parent is either something genetic you are born with or that you are weird if you don't just figure it out on your own. There seems to be some shame attached to admitting that you are willing to consider improving parenting skills.

You’re kidding right?

There are a million parenting books. Most parents hang out with other parents (single people do entirely different things than parents seem to) and they tend to talk about their children and raising them. At least that has been my experience with almost all the parents I know.

If people are not asking for his advice it sure is not because there is some stigmatism about it.

Not kidding. But you are reminding me that most of America is different from where my kids were reared, a third world country known as Mississippi. It's a class and culture issue. It's like the old demographers joke about West Virginia. Seriously, in Appalachia severe physical punishment is common in many families, as is a pattern of young men taking it until they can whup their father, after which they normally leave the household and often the state.

My students reaction to self-help books would have been ask for wine and cheese while reading the book. If you suggested they could benefit from any form of psychological help, you were accusing them "of being crazy". This is clearly a different set of people from those who consider analysis a form of recreation.

I'll spot you that many well educated Americans living in comfortable middle class communities consume millions of self-help books and consider treatment for mental and behavior problems as a necessary facet of health care without stigma.

But there is another America out there too. The stigma is real, even if it's not apparent in your neighborhood.

I don’t doubt that it is real – bad parents are going to be a constant for as long as man exists. We are not perfect. HOWEVER, your post makes those seem like it is the norm rather than the exception. As though it is rare to find people who want to share parenting experience/knowledge and common for people to pigheadedly refuse such. I think that is completely incorrect.

The connection with education is also irrelevant to this. My ‘neighborhood’ has been all over the country (and a few others) as I am moving a LOT and I am confident that the norm is parents genuinely looking for effective advice.

 

[FA_Q2]

America has a cultural problem in that many people believe that being a good parent is either something genetic you are born with or that you are weird if you don't just figure it out on your own. There seems to be some shame attached to admitting that you are willing to consider improving parenting skills.

You’re kidding right?

There are a million parenting books. Most parents hang out with other parents (single people do entirely different things than parents seem to) and they tend to talk about their children and raising them. At least that has been my experience with almost all the parents I know.

If people are not asking for his advice it sure is not because there is some stigmatism about it.

People tend to talk about what they do with their children instead of asking experts or people that have well behaved, well performing kids what works best. People will comment unsolicited on how great your kids are but rarely do they ask for tips or what specifically you do. There is definitely a stigma still on asking for help with raising children or they think there is just something wrong with their child.

Because asking ‘experts’ is rather meaningless. Experts are not available to you all the time nor do they even necessarily know what they are talking about. The people I want to hear from are PARENTS. I know they at least have some functional experience and understand that the perfect picture of sitting down and explaining something is not necessarily so perfect when dealing with real children.

I find I learn a lot from other parents when watching them with my children – you get to see them act and react to the specific child and what works. Experts also have an intrinsic problem – they speak about a child that does not actually exists. The ‘normal’ or ‘average.’ Having children you should understand the fact that they are VERY individualistic.

 

[Iceweasel]

“"When I was about 20 years old, I met an old pastor’s wife who told me that when she was young and had her first child, she didn’t believe in striking children, although spanking kids with a switch pulled from a tree was standard punishment at the time. But one day, when her son was four or five, he did something that she felt warranted a spanking–the first in his life. She told him that he would have to go outside himself and find a switch for her to hit him with.

The boy was gone a long time. And when he came back in, he was crying. He said to her, “Mama, I couldn’t find a switch, but here’s a rock that you can throw at me.”

All of a sudden the mother understood how the situation felt from the child’s point of view: that if my mother wants to hurt me, then it makes no difference what she does it with; she might as well do it with a stone.

And the mother took the boy into her lap and they both cried. Then she laid the rock on a shelf in the kitchen to remind herself forever: never violence. And that is something I think everyone should keep in mind. Because if violence begins in the nursery one can raise children into violence.””

— Astrid Lindgren, author of Pippi Longstocking, 1978 Peace Prize Acceptance Speech

That was an example of an incredibly stupid woman. No difference between a stone and a switch? Obviously the story was a made up lie to propgandize the issue but it is a good example why the peace prize is nothing but a polical tool for feeling good about yourself. Might as well call it the politically correct masterbation prize.

 

[Bumberclyde]

Hitting children is for people who are too stupid to figure out another way to raise children.

 

[oldfart]

I've found that MOST (emphasis on most) dysfunctional kids are the results of parents that can't commit to actual parenting. They are too tired, too busy, or too disinterested in doing the hard part - actively parenting children non-stop every single day. They don't give 10 parts praise, 3 parts constructive criticism, and 1 part punishment. They don't manage their kids to set them up for success so that they can encourage them and they ignore the times the kids failed because it makes them feel bad that their little one will miss a movie/party/fun activity.

Of course these are mostly the same failed parents of screw-ups that will abhor spanking and all forms of it while emotionally isolating their children. Spanking won't help these kids because they are manipulating their parents.

You make the essential point that uninvolved parents tend to have problem kids. Where I disagree with you is the implication that most of these are parents who won't discipline. Quite a few are parents who only discipline.

 

[oldfart]

“"When I was about 20 years old, I met an old pastor’s wife who told me that when she was young and had her first child, she didn’t believe in striking children, although spanking kids with a switch pulled from a tree was standard punishment at the time. But one day, when her son was four or five, he did something that she felt warranted a spanking–the first in his life. She told him that he would have to go outside himself and find a switch for her to hit him with.

The boy was gone a long time. And when he came back in, he was crying. He said to her, “Mama, I couldn’t find a switch, but here’s a rock that you can throw at me.”

All of a sudden the mother understood how the situation felt from the child’s point of view: that if my mother wants to hurt me, then it makes no difference what she does it with; she might as well do it with a stone.

And the mother took the boy into her lap and they both cried. Then she laid the rock on a shelf in the kitchen to remind herself forever: never violence. And that is something I think everyone should keep in mind. Because if violence begins in the nursery one can raise children into violence.””

— Astrid Lindgren, author of Pippi Longstocking, 1978 Peace Prize Acceptance Speech

such wisdom,understanding,knowledge, how did little man get so much wiser than ALMIGHTY GOD????

If you refuse to discipline your children, it proves you don't love them; if you love your children, you will be prompt to discipline themPROVERBS 13:24

You realize you just answered your own post? Perhaps you don't know how to use the edit function? I suggest you pray to your God for the wisdom to learn how to post properly.

Let me further state that you have posted that Biblical reference before. Since this is the beginning and end of how you justify anything, I should expect it. Nevertheless, repetitive and redundant posts that never advance the discussion are tiresome to every poster who tries to have a meaningful discussion.

While I respect your right to hold religious opinions as bizarre as you wish, your behavior is a form of trolling and I ask you to stop it. Post anything you wish once in a thread, but then don't repeat it.

 

[Asclepias]

You’re kidding right?

There are a million parenting books. Most parents hang out with other parents (single people do entirely different things than parents seem to) and they tend to talk about their children and raising them. At least that has been my experience with almost all the parents I know.

If people are not asking for his advice it sure is not because there is some stigmatism about it.

People tend to talk about what they do with their children instead of asking experts or people that have well behaved, well performing kids what works best. People will comment unsolicited on how great your kids are but rarely do they ask for tips or what specifically you do. There is definitely a stigma still on asking for help with raising children or they think there is just something wrong with their child.

Because asking ‘experts’ is rather meaningless. Experts are not available to you all the time nor do they even necessarily know what they are talking about. The people I want to hear from are PARENTS. I know they at least have some functional experience and understand that the perfect picture of sitting down and explaining something is not necessarily so perfect when dealing with real children.

I find I learn a lot from other parents when watching them with my children – you get to see them act and react to the specific child and what works. Experts also have an intrinsic problem – they speak about a child that does not actually exists. The ‘normal’ or ‘average.’ Having children you should understand the fact that they are VERY individualistic.

I look at it like this. An expert can help you out with a foundation. If you are learning to play basketball would you prefer someone at your stage of development in the sport or Pop who coaches the San Antonio Spurs? If you get a speeding ticket is a attorney more likely to get it dismissed or your friend who knows no one at the courts? An expert can give you the basic tools or foundation from which to grow. Over time you are going to tailor your techniques to fit each specific child. My oldest was very headstrong and so is my youngest. The 2 in the middle are way easier. We used the same basic foundation learned from a child psychologist my wife knew as a friend growing up. We just tweaked the specifics to accommodate each child in keeping with the basic principles of the foundation. You also pull from other sources if they fit the basic principles.

 

[Jarlaxle]

“"When I was about 20 years old, I met an old pastor’s wife who told me that when she was young and had her first child, she didn’t believe in striking children, although spanking kids with a switch pulled from a tree was standard punishment at the time. But one day, when her son was four or five, he did something that she felt warranted a spanking–the first in his life. She told him that he would have to go outside himself and find a switch for her to hit him with.

The boy was gone a long time. And when he came back in, he was crying. He said to her, “Mama, I couldn’t find a switch, but here’s a rock that you can throw at me.”

All of a sudden the mother understood how the situation felt from the child’s point of view: that if my mother wants to hurt me, then it makes no difference what she does it with; she might as well do it with a stone.

And the mother took the boy into her lap and they both cried. Then she laid the rock on a shelf in the kitchen to remind herself forever: never violence. And that is something I think everyone should keep in mind. Because if violence begins in the nursery one can raise children into violence.””

— Astrid Lindgren, author of Pippi Longstocking, 1978 Peace Prize Acceptance Speech

such wisdom,understanding,knowledge, how did little man get so much wiser than ALMIGHTY GOD????

If you refuse to discipline your children, it proves you don't love them; if you love your children, you will be prompt to discipline themPROVERBS 13:24

Please stop trolling and confine your religious babble to the appropriate forum.

 

[GISMYS]

such wisdom,understanding,knowledge, how did little man get so much wiser than almighty god????

if you refuse to discipline your children, it proves you don't love them; if you love your children, you will be prompt to discipline themproverbs 13:24

please stop trolling and confine your religious babble to the appropriate forum.

anything in the world except the truth of god's word!!!huh???

 

[BlackSand]

Situational thought experiment;

Your 4 year old gregarious child climbs up onto the kitchen stove and is about to place a hand on a hot burner.

Do you...

A) Grab the child off the stove and give a lecture.

B) Grab the child off the stove and give a spank.

C) Let the child figure it out by trial and error.

??

Warn the child the first time, and tell the child that it is hot, and they should not touch. If the child ignores my warning, I'd let them touch the burner.

They will never touch it again, and will listen to me when I say that something is hot. Sometimes you have to let people figure things out for themselves.

Yeah ... A burned hand is a lot better than a swat on the butt.

.

 

[Vandalshandle]

My x-son in law used to chase his 14 year old daughter around the house, swatting her with a leather belt. if the child had been a blood relative of mine, I would have turned him in to the police for child abuse. Since he was a relative of my wife, at the time, I stayed out of it. Worked out real well for him. Now the 14 year old is a 21 year old prostitute
.

 

[Connery]

Situational thought experiment;

Your 4 year old gregarious child climbs up onto the kitchen stove and is about to place a hand on a hot burner.

Do you...

A) Grab the child off the stove and give a lecture.

B) Grab the child off the stove and give a spank.

C) Let the child figure it out by trial and error.

??

Warn the child the first time, and tell the child that it is hot, and they should not touch. If the child ignores my warning, I'd let them touch the burner.

They will never touch it again, and will listen to me when I say that something is hot. Sometimes you have to let people figure things out for themselves.

Sometimes even the best of us have to be told something more than once. No need for this type of treatment. The child will remember that you allowed them to injure themselves for the rest of their lives. That is not a very good legacy or lesson.

 

[Jarlaxle]

if you refuse to discipline your children, it proves you don't love them; if you love your children, you will be prompt to discipline themproverbs 13:24

please stop trolling and confine your religious babble to the appropriate forum.

anything in the world except the truth of god's word!!!huh???

Please stop trolling and confine your religious babble to the appropriate forum.

 

[Jarlaxle]

My x-son in law used to chase his 14 year old daughter around the house, swatting her with a leather belt. if the child had been a blood relative of mine, I would have turned him in to the police for child abuse. Since he was a relative of my wife, at the time, I stayed out of it. Worked out real well for him. Now the 14 year old is a 21 year old prostitute.

Kindest thing to do would be to shoot both of them. Did she kill (or at least maim) him first?

 

[Montrovant]

My x-son in law used to chase his 14 year old daughter around the house, swatting her with a leather belt. if the child had been a blood relative of mine, I would have turned him in to the police for child abuse. Since he was a relative of my wife, at the time, I stayed out of it. Worked out real well for him. Now the 14 year old is a 21 year old prostitute.

Kindest thing to do would be to shoot both of them. Did she kill (or at least maim) him first?

And you complain that someone else is being a troll.