Does Scripture Support Liberalism?

[Quantum Windbag]

Hm, rather that I don't believe God is actively ENDORSING liberal policies.

Christ made it pretty clear that he wasn't into politics.

​

'Cause everyone knows He upset the moneychangers and the clergy of the day for personal reasons...

The problem with trying to twist examples to fit your POV is that other people are usually better at it. He did it because they were using the government to force people to give to them instead of giving to the poor.

 

[Mertex]

One can surely argue that.

In my morning devotion I came across a text that I never noticed before, well, not like this at least....

Proverbs 11:25 (King James Version)

The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself.

Pretty cool huh?

That chapter also had some other good nuggets...

Proverbs 11:4 (King James Version),
Proverbs 11:9 (King James Version),
Proverbs 11:24 (King James Version),
and
Proverbs 11:28 (King James Version)

Words of pure wisdom.

NIV version of your quote:

Proverbs 11:25
New International Version (NIV)
25 A generous person will prosper;
whoever refreshes others will be refreshed.

Also, did you know that Jesus told us to help the poor.....by cutting programs that would help the poor......

 

[Mertex]

Let's see, taking money by force. The very definition of Robbery.

You can reject the truth, but it doesn't make it less true.

Of course avatar cannot demonstrate that the government is taking money by force which is why he is not "speaking the truth".

I was unaware that you had no clue of all those people who have been thrown in jail for failure to pay taxes or their putting liens on property or garnishing wages.

I foolishly thought you were informed. So sue me.

So, you are against taxes? Want to live in this great country without paying taxes?

Even Jesus was for us paying taxes.......of course conservative Christians probably have a spin for this, and that is so sad, because Christians are supposed to rely on God to provide for them....not to have the "spirit of fear" that they are being taken advantaged of.

In Matthew 22:17-21, the Pharisees asked Jesus a question: "Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought Him a denarius, and He asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. Then He said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." In full agreement, the Apostle Paul taught, "This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor" (Romans 13:6-7).

Read more: What does the Bible say about paying taxes?

 

[Mertex]

Hm, rather that I don't believe God is actively ENDORSING liberal policies.

Christ made it pretty clear that he wasn't into politics.

​

'Cause everyone knows He upset the moneychangers and the clergy of the day for personal reasons...

The problem with trying to twist examples to fit your POV is that other people are usually better at it. He did it because they were using the government to force people to give to them instead of giving to the poor.

You mean like approving farm subsidies.....but cutting programs that help the poor?

 

[PixieStix]

The real question is ....

Does scripture support "progressives"?

 

[PixieStix]

Scripture supports freedom, and free will

 

[HelenaHandbag]

Of course avatar cannot demonstrate that the government is taking money by force which is why he is not "speaking the truth".

I was unaware that you had no clue of all those people who have been thrown in jail for failure to pay taxes or their putting liens on property or garnishing wages.

I foolishly thought you were informed. So sue me.

So, you are against taxes? Want to live in this great country without paying taxes?

Even Jesus was for us paying taxes.......of course conservative Christians probably have a spin for this, and that is so sad, because Christians are supposed to rely on God to provide for them....not to have the "spirit of fear" that they are being taken advantaged of.

In Matthew 22:17-21, the Pharisees asked Jesus a question: "Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought Him a denarius, and He asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. Then He said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." In full agreement, the Apostle Paul taught, "This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor" (Romans 13:6-7).

Read more: What does the Bible say about paying taxes?

More blasphemous statist bastardization of scripture, designed to deceive people into acquiescing to the coercive power of the state, rather than keeping their faith.

So what He said was "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's." Let's look further into the passage.

First, we need to put the encounter into perspective. We need to keep in mind that the men asking the question meant to "entangle" Jesus. Read verse 16 again. You can almost hear the treachery as they try to flatter Jesus into making a mistake. You see, it was against Jewish law to pay tribute to Caesar. But it was against Caesars law to not pay the tribute. In verse 18 we see that "Jesus perceived their wickedness." If Jesus answered that they should not pay the tribute, they would have called the Roman authorities and had Him arrested for crimes against Caesar. If He answered that they should pay the tribute they would be able to speak against Him to the Jews. Jesus didn't give them the satisfaction. That leaves us to determine what Jesus meant.

Next, we must understand how Jesus responded. He asked to be shown the money that was used to pay tribute to Caesar. An understanding of the money is very important to an understanding of Jesus' remarks. Verse 19 says that they brought Jesus a penny. This would most likely have been a denarius. There were many varieties of this coin. Every Caesar minted a variety of coins to promote himself and his political ambitions. One of the denarius minted by Tiberius was inscribed "Augustus Tiberius, son of the Divine Augustus." Tiberius considered himself the son of divinity. On a coin minted by Augustus, he declared himself "Son of God." The Caesars generally considered themselves deity. The Romans didn't care about your religious beliefs, as long as once a year you would take a pinch of salt and say Caesar is Lord. Many first century believers died because they refused to take that pinch of salt.

Render unto Caesar

The situation boiled down to following Caesar's law or God's law.

 

[Care4all]

Interpreting the teachings of Jesus Christ to fit a political agenda is a fool's game. Conservatives try to show that His teachings makes for cover when they show disdain and hatred for homosexuals. Conservatives tried to justify slavery and Jim Crow by interpreting Biblical passages. That showed not only their innate bigotry, but their religious hypocrisy.

Nothing Jesus said is applicable to current political philosophies. Pushing the round peg of political ideology through the square hole of scripture erodes the politics and dilutes the scripture. It's a messy paint box, the Bible. Leave it out of politics.

actually nosmo, imo it was not much different in Jesus's day than it is today....the person complaining about having to pay taxes to the Roman gvt wanted Jesus to support rebellion and a revolt/war due to those taxes....

and Jesus clearly put the man in his place....pay unto Caesar what is his....

This complainer was tired of paying taxes to the Jewish gvt (which was a theocracy at the time) and having to pay taxes to the secular gvt, the Romans...he wanted to war against the Roman gvt. and get Jesus to support such....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

​

'Cause everyone knows He upset the moneychangers and the clergy of the day for personal reasons...

The problem with trying to twist examples to fit your POV is that other people are usually better at it. He did it because they were using the government to force people to give to them instead of giving to the poor.

You mean like approving farm subsidies.....but cutting programs that help the poor?

Is that an example a clever retort?

 

[Mertex]

More blasphemous statist bastardization of scripture, designed to deceive people into acquiescing to the coercive power of the state, rather than keeping their faith.

Is that all you've got? What's blasphemous about it.....paying taxes is in keeping with one's faith.....Christian that is.

So what He said was "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's." Let's look further into the passage.

First, we need to put the encounter into perspective. We need to keep in mind that the men asking the question meant to "entangle" Jesus. Read verse 16 again. You can almost hear the treachery as they try to flatter Jesus into making a mistake. You see, it was against Jewish law to pay tribute to Caesar. But it was against Caesars law to not pay the tribute. In verse 18 we see that "Jesus perceived their wickedness." If Jesus answered that they should not pay the tribute, they would have called the Roman authorities and had Him arrested for crimes against Caesar. If He answered that they should pay the tribute they would be able to speak against Him to the Jews. Jesus didn't give them the satisfaction. That leaves us to determine what Jesus meant.
Next, we must understand how Jesus responded. He asked to be shown the money that was used to pay tribute to Caesar. An understanding of the money is very important to an understanding of Jesus' remarks. Verse 19 says that they brought Jesus a penny. This would most likely have been a denarius. There were many varieties of this coin. Every Caesar minted a variety of coins to promote himself and his political ambitions. One of the denarius minted by Tiberius was inscribed "Augustus Tiberius, son of the Divine Augustus." Tiberius considered himself the son of divinity. On a coin minted by Augustus, he declared himself "Son of God." The Caesars generally considered themselves deity. The Romans didn't care about your religious beliefs, as long as once a year you would take a pinch of salt and say Caesar is Lord. Many first century believers died because they refused to take that pinch of salt.

Render unto Caesar

So, you just repeated what I posted and didn't explain why it's blasphemous.....just more spin.

So

The situation boiled down to following Caesar's law or God's law.

Well, there you have it.....it is the law to pay taxes, so render unto the United States what is the United States.....and render unto God what is God's.....nowhere does the Bible ever tell anyone that they don't have to pay taxes and they are still being faithful.....you have not refuted what I said, just tried to spin it and failed.

 

[Mertex]

The problem with trying to twist examples to fit your POV is that other people are usually better at it. He did it because they were using the government to force people to give to them instead of giving to the poor.

You mean like approving farm subsidies.....but cutting programs that help the poor?

Is that an example a clever retort?

Thank you.....that was pretty clever....

 

[thanatos144]

Hm, rather that I don't believe God is actively ENDORSING liberal policies.

Christ made it pretty clear that he wasn't into politics.

​

'Cause everyone knows He upset the moneychangers and the clergy of the day for personal reasons...

The problem with trying to twist examples to fit your POV is that other people are usually better at it. He did it because they were using the government to force people to give to them instead of giving to the poor.

I don't remember scripture encouraging lying,greed,slavery and pride of oneself over God

tapatalk post

 

[Derideo_Te]

Let's see, taking money by force. The very definition of Robbery.

You can reject the truth, but it doesn't make it less true.

Of course avatar cannot demonstrate that the government is taking money by force which is why he is not "speaking the truth".

I was unaware that you had no clue of all those people who have been thrown in jail for failure to pay taxes or their putting liens on property or garnishing wages.

I foolishly thought you were informed. So sue me.

Failure to obey the law is why they have been jailed after due process. There is no force involved unless they choose to resist. There is no force involved in liens and garnishing either. Thank you for tacitly admitting that you cannot substantiate your lie about about taxes being theft.

 

[Avatar4321]

Of course avatar cannot demonstrate that the government is taking money by force which is why he is not "speaking the truth".

I was unaware that you had no clue of all those people who have been thrown in jail for failure to pay taxes or their putting liens on property or garnishing wages.

I foolishly thought you were informed. So sue me.

Failure to obey the law is why they have been jailed after due process. There is no force involved unless they choose to resist. There is no force involved in liens and garnishing either. Thank you for tacitly admitting that you cannot substantiate your lie about about taxes being theft.

So you are seriously going to concede that government takes by force taxes that arent freely given and yet at the same time pretend as though no force exists.

I hate to break this to you, but when you concede my point, I am not lying.

 

[Avatar4321]

Of course avatar cannot demonstrate that the government is taking money by force which is why he is not "speaking the truth".

I was unaware that you had no clue of all those people who have been thrown in jail for failure to pay taxes or their putting liens on property or garnishing wages.

I foolishly thought you were informed. So sue me.

So, you are against taxes? Want to live in this great country without paying taxes?

Even Jesus was for us paying taxes.......of course conservative Christians probably have a spin for this, and that is so sad, because Christians are supposed to rely on God to provide for them....not to have the "spirit of fear" that they are being taken advantaged of.

In Matthew 22:17-21, the Pharisees asked Jesus a question: "Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought Him a denarius, and He asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. Then He said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." In full agreement, the Apostle Paul taught, "This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor" (Romans 13:6-7).

Read more: What does the Bible say about paying taxes?

I am against oppressing the people with taxes. We have one third of our labor taxed. Even the most wicked governments in the scriptures didn't tax that much.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I was unaware that you had no clue of all those people who have been thrown in jail for failure to pay taxes or their putting liens on property or garnishing wages.

I foolishly thought you were informed. So sue me.

Failure to obey the law is why they have been jailed after due process. There is no force involved unless they choose to resist. There is no force involved in liens and garnishing either. Thank you for tacitly admitting that you cannot substantiate your lie about about taxes being theft.

So you are seriously going to concede that government takes by force taxes that arent freely given and yet at the same time pretend as though no force exists.

I hate to break this to you, but when you concede my point, I am not lying.

Since you have failed to demonstrate that taxes are "taken by force" that equates to lying on your part.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I was unaware that you had no clue of all those people who have been thrown in jail for failure to pay taxes or their putting liens on property or garnishing wages.

I foolishly thought you were informed. So sue me.

So, you are against taxes? Want to live in this great country without paying taxes?

Even Jesus was for us paying taxes.......of course conservative Christians probably have a spin for this, and that is so sad, because Christians are supposed to rely on God to provide for them....not to have the "spirit of fear" that they are being taken advantaged of.

In Matthew 22:17-21, the Pharisees asked Jesus a question: "Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought Him a denarius, and He asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. Then He said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." In full agreement, the Apostle Paul taught, "This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor" (Romans 13:6-7).

Read more: What does the Bible say about paying taxes?

I am against oppressing the people with taxes. We have one third of our labor taxed. Even the most wicked governments in the scriptures didn't tax that much.

Governments in the scriptures were not governments OF the people and FOR the people.

 

[thanatos144]

So, you are against taxes? Want to live in this great country without paying taxes?

Even Jesus was for us paying taxes.......of course conservative Christians probably have a spin for this, and that is so sad, because Christians are supposed to rely on God to provide for them....not to have the "spirit of fear" that they are being taken advantaged of.

In Matthew 22:17-21, the Pharisees asked Jesus a question: "Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?" But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought Him a denarius, and He asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. Then He said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." In full agreement, the Apostle Paul taught, "This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor" (Romans 13:6-7).

Read more: What does the Bible say about paying taxes?

I am against oppressing the people with taxes. We have one third of our labor taxed. Even the most wicked governments in the scriptures didn't tax that much.

Governments in the scriptures were not governments OF the people and FOR the people.

Neither is the one we are living in now

tapatalk post

 

[Avatar4321]

Failure to obey the law is why they have been jailed after due process. There is no force involved unless they choose to resist. There is no force involved in liens and garnishing either. Thank you for tacitly admitting that you cannot substantiate your lie about about taxes being theft.

So you are seriously going to concede that government takes by force taxes that arent freely given and yet at the same time pretend as though no force exists.

I hate to break this to you, but when you concede my point, I am not lying.

Since you have failed to demonstrate that taxes are "taken by force" that equates to lying on your part.

You just conceded that they do in your attempt to label me a liar.

Tell me, if people dont pay their taxes, how does the government collect.

By force. You just admitted that.

So please tell me how taxes aren't collected by force & the threat of force.

You can call me a liar till the day you die. But the only lying here is you.

 

[Derideo_Te]

So you are seriously going to concede that government takes by force taxes that arent freely given and yet at the same time pretend as though no force exists.

I hate to break this to you, but when you concede my point, I am not lying.

Since you have failed to demonstrate that taxes are "taken by force" that equates to lying on your part.

You just conceded that they do in your attempt to label me a liar.

Tell me, if people dont pay their taxes, how does the government collect.

By force. You just admitted that.

So please tell me how taxes aren't collected by force & the threat of force.

You can call me a liar till the day you die. But the only lying here is you.

Now you are lying about what I just posted. Obviously you cannot defend your position so you are just spinning and projecting instead. But I shouldn't be surprised since this is what you do every time you are unable to prove your point.