Zone1 Does My Opinion Make Me a Transphobe, or Simply Sane.

[Dogmaphobe]

This is important for everyone to realize. It's a form of ego — false pride. They like to stroke themselves with thoughts and claims of moral 'superiority.'

Source: Me. I'm a former virtue signaler who upon hearing that term reflected on it and realized it described myself. I then changed my ways. I still cringe to think of friends and family that quietly endured my pontifications through the years.

It has also become something very much akin to a fundamentalist religion.

Both involve belief without questioning, arbitrary views based upon fear, and demands placed on others to march in lockstep or suffer consequences.

 

[Curried Goats]

This is important for everyone to realize. It's a form of ego — false pride. They like to stroke themselves with thoughts and claims of moral 'superiority.'

Source: Me. I'm a former virtue signaler who upon hearing that term reflected on it and realized it described myself. I then changed my ways. I still cringe to think of friends and family that quietly endured my pontifications through the years.

It was the OP who introduced the idea of objective moral righteousness into the discussion and has since abandoned that argument.

 

[Curried Goats]

It has also become something very much akin to a fundamentalist religion.

Both involve belief without questioning, arbitrary views based upon fear, and demands placed on others to march in lockstep or suffer consequences.

This seems to more closely describe those who can provide no objective evidence to their claims that gender dysphoria is made up rather than the result of physiological differences.

 

[JoeMoma]

This attempt at the okey doke is less effective when we scroll up and read your previous post. What you claimed was that objective morality exists, what you are describing now is physiology, not morality.

I made no claim of objective MORALITY. I did make a claim of objective TRUTH. Men and women are biologically different. That is an objective truth.

 

[Curried Goats]

I made no claim of objective MORALITY. I did make a claim of objective TRUTH. Men and women are biologically different. That is an objective truth.

You bemoaned moral relativism as a cause of gender dysphoria and you have yet to attempt to explain any link between the two.

Most of the people who are claiming to be "Trans" or "Non-Binary" today, IMO, are not suffering from gender dysphoria. They are actually suffering from a social contagion brought on by an ideology of moral relativism and the rejection of objective truth. If everyone gets to have "their own truth" then there is no truth.

There are objective truths but no "truths" you have provided support any part of your arguments. There are observable biological differences between males and females and objective observable biological differences in the brains of trans individuals.

 

[JoeMoma]

There are objective truths but no "truths" you have provided support any part of your arguments. There are observable biological differences between males and females and objective observable biological differences in the brains of trans individuals.

We may be talking past each other and agree on more than it seems. If we use a separate category for Trans-people and leave the transition in the domain of adults making adult decisions... it's one thing. Biological men claiming to be women and biological women claiming to be men, leaving of the "Trans" I have a problem with. You are also failing to address the explosion of the numbers of people claiming to be trans/nonbinary (mostly adolescent girls) without a test to verify that their brains are actually different as you are stating.

Defining a woman as anyone who identifies as a woman and a man as anyone who identifies as a man is trans-dogma based on circular definitions. There needs to be a non-circular definition of a trans-man and an trans-woman. All this talk abut men being able to be pregnant is foolishness. If we say that a transman who is a biological woman can be pregnant, I'm on board. If we say a transwoman who just yesterday decided that he/she is a woman yesterday should not compete in woman's sports which is for a level playing field of biological women I'm with you. If you go as far as saying a transwoman is a woman and a transman is a man, then you've lost me.

 

[Curried Goats]

We may be talking past each other and agree on more than it seems.

We don't.

If we use a separate category for Trans-people and leave the transition in the domain of adults making adult decisions... it's one thing.

Gender dysphoria doesn't just affect adults your insistence that we wait until they're adults to treat them is akin to waiting until their adults to treat poor eye sight. Why should we?

Biological men claiming to be women and biological women claiming to be men, leaving of the "Trans" I have a problem with.

Why? There is a valid argument to be made that physiological brain differences are as valid biological markers as chromosomes or sex organs for the demarcation between the sexes. Even intersexed women born with different chromosomes and testes instead of ovaries can be considered biologically female.

You are also failing to address the explosion of the numbers of people claiming to be trans/nonbinary (mostly adolescent girls) without a test to verify that their brains are actually different as you are stating.

Why do I need to address rising numbers? What evidence do you have that the correct number of trans people in a population is what you say it is? Maybe we haven't been diligent enough in recording trans individuals, maybe societies increasingly accepting attitude is giving more trans individuals the confidence in coming out or social media is giving them a platform that they didn't previously have to express themselves publicly.

Defining a woman as anyone who identifies as a woman and a man as anyone who identifies as a man is trans-dogma based on circular definitions.

No. This is just a specious strawman. Societies construct these categories and they may involve a collection of objective observations but they are social constructs in the end.

There needs to be a non-circular definition of a trans-man and an trans-woman. All this talk abut men being able to be pregnant is foolishness. If we say that a transman who is a biological woman can be pregnant, I'm on board. If we say a transwoman who just yesterday decided that he/she is a woman yesterday should not compete in woman's sports which is for a level playing field of biological women I'm with you. If you go as far as saying a transwoman is a woman and a transman is a man, then you've lost me.

What does it matter if you are on board or not? Do your personal preferences influence the scientific community?

 

[JoeMoma]

We don't.

Gender dysphoria doesn't just affect adults your insistence that we wait until they're adults to treat them is akin to waiting until their adults to treat poor eye sight. Why should we?

Why? There is a valid argument to be made that physiological brain differences are as valid biological markers as chromosomes or sex organs for the demarcation between the sexes. Even intersexed women born with different chromosomes and testes instead of ovaries can be considered biologically female.

Why do I need to address rising numbers? What evidence do you have that the correct number of trans people in a population is what you say it is? Maybe we haven't been diligent enough in recording trans individuals, maybe societies increasingly accepting attitude is giving more trans individuals the confidence in coming out or social media is giving them a platform that they didn't previously have to express themselves publicly.

No. This is just a specious strawman. Societies construct these categories and they may involve a collection of objective observations but they are social constructs in the end.

What does it matter if you are on board or not? Do your personal preferences influence the scientific community?

I agree with this lady. Watch the video if you like. It answers many of the questions you posed to me. Otherwise we will simply agree to disagree.

 

[Curried Goats]

I agree with this lady. Watch the video if you like. It answers many of the questions you posed to me. Otherwise we will simply agree to disagree.

Yea. No thank you. Im not interested in online videos. A video can't respond to my criticism of its arguments but then again neither do you seem to be able to.

 

[JoeMoma]

Gender dysphoria doesn't just affect adults your insistence that we wait until they're adults to treat them is akin to waiting until their adults to treat poor eye sight. Why should we?

Yes, I don't believe removing sex organs is a wise way to treat children for gender dysphoria because a large percentage grow out of it by the time they become adults. Puberty blockers also presents it's own host of problems. It's a case of "the cure" being worse than the problem. Now if treatment is simply counseling to help the child cope with his/her feeling, I would be all for that. irreversible surgeries to alter the body to deal with "feelings" should be reserved for adults making adult decisions.

 

[JoeMoma]

I've always been of the mindset that life is short so if a person can find happiness and love in nontraditional ways then let them be happy.

I don't really care if homosexuality is a choice or not. I don't care if a man wants to cut off his bits and pieces and call himself a woman etc. I don't care if 2 women or 2 men get married.

Live and let live

I agree with that somewhat for adults, but the trans movement has gone to bat-shit crazy extremes. Trans-men in women's prisons impregnating the women, men who say that they identify as women competing with biological women and blowing away women's sports records, men who say that identify as women exposing their male genitals in women's changing areas, transgender ideology being taught to young children in public schools... it's bat-shit crazy.

 

[Curried Goats]

Yes, I don't believe removing sex organs is a wise way to treat children for gender dysphoria because a large percentage grow out of it by the time they become adults.

1. You present no evidence that "a large percentage grow out of it by the time they become adults" so I have no reason to accept that as a truthful claim.

2. Removal of sex organs in young children to treat gender dysphoria is simply not happening, at least I have seen no evidence that it is.

Puberty blockers also presents it's own host of problems.

List them and present evidence they are indeed "problems".

It's a case of "the cure" being worse than the problem.

Are you a medical professional? What information are you using to reach this conclusion?

Now if treatment is simply counseling to help the child cope with his/her feeling, I would be all for that. irreversible surgeries to alter the body to deal with "feelings" should be reserved for adults making adult decisions.

Again, does it matter what you are or aren't for? Why should we hold your opinion in higher regard than that of the vast majority of the medical community?

 

[JoeMoma]

1. You present no evidence that "a large percentage grow out of it by the time they become adults" so I have no reason to accept that as a truthful claim.

There is much evidence in the video I posted that you said you are not going to watch. I'm not wasting my time if you don't like that form of presentation.

 

[Curried Goats]

There is much evidence in the video I posted that you said you are not going to watch. I'm not wasting my time if you don't like that form of presentation.

It's a 50+ minute video that you presumably watched yourself. What evidence was presented and where is the link to proof this evidence is real?

 

[miketx]

should be reserved for adults making adult decisions.

From their mental institutions.

 

[JoeMoma]

It's a 50+ minute video that you presumably watched yourself. What evidence was presented and where is the link to proof this evidence is real?

And where is the link to prove that any link to "evidence" is real. My posting to a message board is a mere hobby. I'm not going to consume my hours posting link after link to your satisfaction.

If you are really wanting to know whether the information from the video is real, you can buy the lady's book and get the citations. I don't expect you to do that. I wouldn't spend money and buy a book either just to prove a point to a USMB poster. I have actual real life things to do beside posting.

 

[Curried Goats]

And where is the link to prove that any link to "evidence" is real. My posting to a message board is a mere hobby. I'm not going to consume my hours posting link after link to your satisfaction.

You started a conversation about objective truth and now you balk at being asked to provide some?

If you are really wanting to know whether the information from the video is real, you can buy the lady's book and get the citations. I don't expect you to do that. I wouldn't spend money and buy a book either just to prove a point to a USMB poster. I have actual real life things to do beside posting.

I've done my research on the matter and am content that I'm on the side of the respected scientific and medical community.

 

[Pete7469]

Yes, there is a "normal". Male or female is normal. Hermaphrodite is a birth defect -- not normal. And almost all people that are being caught up into the transgender dogma are not hermaphrodites or intersex people, but people with normal bodies. Many are confused teen aged girls that are having trouble coping with puberty. Many are people that are actually simply gay. Some may even be attention seekers that have found a way to work the system and become champions at female sports with the advantage of male bodies. And a very small percentage may actually suffer from gender identity dysmorphia. That said, removing functional organs should be a last resort for coping with the problem, not a first resort. Also, if a person decides to "identify" as the opposite gender, that's fine but don't expect the rest of the world to agree with that identification or to use compelled pronouns.

Enabling destructive behavior is the opposite of helping a person through a difficult life.

It would be a whole different issue if it didn't come right off the heels of the gay marriage acceptance in the country.

Now are we not only being bombarded by this tranny lunacy, in the line we have freaks trying to be "transpecies", dude sticking their dicks in cups full of earth worms, and fat old men insisting they're 6 year old girls and straight out NAMBLA pedophiles.







We have gone way past the threshold of sanity just with the fuckin fag weddings IMO. The tranny bullshit better be the line of lunacy we allow society to stop at or we are going to have to be faced with something so insane that God Himself may come down to earth and smother his own creation out of disgust.


.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

From their mental institutions.

without internet connections so they stop posting at USMB.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I've done my research on the matter and am content that I'm on the side of the respected scientific and medical community.

Ah -- so THAT's why you want to convince 3 year old boys into thinking they are really girls, treat them as girls as they grow up, give them puberty blockers at 11 and then castrate them at 16.

It's all "science".