Does everyone understand the tax issue?

[Soggy in NOLA]

Dude, really.

I'd strongly suggest you hire an accountant to do your taxes.

Dude, I do
what does any of your babble have to do with understanding why raising taxes is going to help?
and the table I provided, has a link
debate them, not me
Toro as a liberal your losing all respect
Tax Tables

I'm not a liberal.

Your link is proof that we should not rely too much on what's on the Internet. Kind of like that "there were no surpluses in the 90s" thing.

There were no surpluses in the 90's bub. The closest Clinton got was a $10,000,000,000 deficit. When he left office there was a $5,800,000,000,000 debt.

 

[Toro]

Dude, I do
what does any of your babble have to do with understanding why raising taxes is going to help?
and the table I provided, has a link
debate them, not me
Toro as a liberal your losing all respect
Tax Tables

I'm not a liberal.

Your link is proof that we should not rely too much on what's on the Internet. Kind of like that "there were no surpluses in the 90s" thing.

There were no surpluses in the 90's bub. The closest Clinton got was a $10,000,000,000 deficit. When he left office there was a $5,800,000,000,000 debt.

rofl

yeah ...




Next up, why the world is 6,000 years old, followed by Obama was born in Kenya.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I'm not a liberal.

Your link is proof that we should not rely too much on what's on the Internet. Kind of like that "there were no surpluses in the 90s" thing.

There were no surpluses in the 90's bub. The closest Clinton got was a $10,000,000,000 deficit. When he left office there was a $5,800,000,000,000 debt.

rofl

yeah ...




Next up, why the world is 6,000 years old, followed by Obama was born in Kenya.

The world is about 4,500,000,000 years old smart-ass and as for Obama, he was born in Hawaii. And guess what, there were still no surpluses.. Clinton spent more than he toook in for eight years. Try researching Public Debt vs. Intra-Governemntal Holdings rather than regurgitating MoveOn.org talking points.

 

[JRK]

Dude, I do
what does any of your babble have to do with understanding why raising taxes is going to help?
and the table I provided, has a link
debate them, not me
Toro as a liberal your losing all respect
Tax Tables

I'm not a liberal.

Your link is proof that we should not rely too much on what's on the Internet. Kind of like that "there were no surpluses in the 90s" thing.

There were no surpluses in the 90's bub. The closest Clinton got was a $10,000,000,000 deficit. When he left office there was a $5,800,000,000,000 debt.

Your wasting your time with these guys
They have no understanding of ho different the truth is and what is real
It is the very reason our country will never be the same and may not survive what they are doing to it
the debt has grown under every president for a long time, and yes even under Clinton
the debt is really not an issue until it gets out of control
Every business in this country carries debt
every year

I see that Toro carries the quote Cheney stated about debt not being an issue
when its 2% of GDP like when he said that
its not
when its close to 20% like it is now
its huge
they have no understanding of what any of this means. Its like this thread. You raise corporate taxes all you have done is raised the cost of that product
hell how can anyone think there is some money tree a corporation pulls from to pay there taxes

 

[Avorysuds]

There were no surpluses in the 90's bub. The closest Clinton got was a $10,000,000,000 deficit. When he left office there was a $5,800,000,000,000 debt.

rofl

yeah ...




Next up, why the world is 6,000 years old, followed by Obama was born in Kenya.

The world is about 4,500,000,000 billion years old smart-ass. And guess what, there were still no surpluses.

lol, OWNED!

 

[Toro]

There were no surpluses in the 90's bub. The closest Clinton got was a $10,000,000,000 deficit. When he left office there was a $5,800,000,000,000 debt.

rofl

yeah ...




Next up, why the world is 6,000 years old, followed by Obama was born in Kenya.

The world is about 4,500,000,000 billion years old smart-ass. And guess what, there were still no surpluses.

List of people who say there was a surplus:
Bush's Treasury Secretary
Bush's budget director
Bush's chair of the President's Council of Economic Advisors
Bush

List of people who say there was no surplus
A software engineer with no training in finance
Rush Limbaugh
You guys


Outstanding.

 

[JRK]

Libs debt is the cost of doing business
taxes is a punishment for doing business

all you guys have left is those couple of years the GOP congress balanced to budget in the late 90s
like that really has allot to do with what the entire 8 years under Clinton looked like

Hell with 2 wars gong on in 2007 we got within 162 billion of breaking even. The last budget done by the GOP

 

[Steve Hanson]

You can't be the most militarist nation in the world, the world's free of charge policeman and defender,

AND have a 21st century domestic socio-economic structure (a social safety net, modern infrastructure, etc.)

AND be a low tax nation, without going deeply into debt and eventually bankrupt. It is mathematically impossible.

But that is what we've been trying to do since 1980.

Your taxes are lower than they've ever been and our debt is higher than it's ever been because of the above.

We need to GTFO of these foriegn countries and not be starting new wars. What a frigging waste of money, and for what.

 

[JRK]

rofl

yeah ...




Next up, why the world is 6,000 years old, followed by Obama was born in Kenya.

The world is about 4,500,000,000 billion years old smart-ass. And guess what, there were still no surpluses.

List of people who say there was a surplus:
Bush's Treasury Secretary
Bush's budget director
Bush's chair of the President's Council of Economic Advisors
Bush

List of people who say there was no surplus
A software engineer with no training in finance
Rush Limbaugh
You guys


Outstanding.

Tora
there was a surplus?

The Link Provided Above is Allegedly False

Some people have claimed that the link I provided (Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)) is an illegitimate or fraudulent site that provides false numbers. I don't know where that accusation comes from or why people think that, but I've seen at least some comments that criticize the link because it doesn't point to U.S. Department of the Treasury. To verify that my link is to a valid government information source, please follow these steps:

Go to the U.S. Treasury website: U.S. Department of the Treasury
Click on "Bureaus": Takes you to Bureaus
Click on "Bureau of the Public Debt": Takes you to Bureau of the Public Debt: Homepage
Scroll down to the section "The U.S. Public Debt" and click on "See the U.S. Public Debt to the Penny."
This takes you to the link I originally provided: Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

The assertion that my article points people to a fraudulent website is incorrect. I am providing a direct link to the U.S. Treasury, Bureau of the Public Debt, National Debt to the Penny website. This is the official website that the U.S. government provides which allows the public to track the debt.
there it is in black and white
argue with the numbers, not us

 

[Toro]

Libs debt is the cost of doing business
taxes is a punishment for doing business

all you guys have left is those couple of years the GOP congress balanced to budget in the late 90s
like that really has allot to do with what the entire 8 years under Clinton looked like

Hell with 2 wars gong on in 2007 we got within 162 billion of breaking even. The last budget done by the GOP

Actually, the GOP Congress didn't balance the budget. They ran surpluses and used that money to retire debt. So kudos to Congressional Republicans of the late 1990s.

 

[Toro]

The world is about 4,500,000,000 billion years old smart-ass. And guess what, there were still no surpluses.

List of people who say there was a surplus:
Bush's Treasury Secretary
Bush's budget director
Bush's chair of the President's Council of Economic Advisors
Bush

List of people who say there was no surplus
A software engineer with no training in finance
Rush Limbaugh
You guys


Outstanding.

Tora
there was a surplus?

The Link Provided Above is Allegedly False

Some people have claimed that the link I provided (Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)) is an illegitimate or fraudulent site that provides false numbers. I don't know where that accusation comes from or why people think that, but I've seen at least some comments that criticize the link because it doesn't point to U.S. Department of the Treasury. To verify that my link is to a valid government information source, please follow these steps:

Go to the U.S. Treasury website: U.S. Department of the Treasury
Click on "Bureaus": Takes you to Bureaus
Click on "Bureau of the Public Debt": Takes you to Bureau of the Public Debt: Homepage
Scroll down to the section "The U.S. Public Debt" and click on "See the U.S. Public Debt to the Penny."
This takes you to the link I originally provided: Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

The assertion that my article points people to a fraudulent website is incorrect. I am providing a direct link to the U.S. Treasury, Bureau of the Public Debt, National Debt to the Penny website. This is the official website that the U.S. government provides which allows the public to track the debt.
there it is in black and white
argue with the numbers, not us

You make the mistake of assuming that changes in absolute debt levels imply changes in operating cash flows. That's incorrect. The links to the national debt show gross debt, not net debt, and do not account for increases in assets in the trusts, which offset increases in the debt. A surplus is cash inflows exceeding outflows, nothing more. And that's what happened in the 90s.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

rofl

yeah ...




Next up, why the world is 6,000 years old, followed by Obama was born in Kenya.

The world is about 4,500,000,000 billion years old smart-ass. And guess what, there were still no surpluses.

List of people who say there was a surplus:
Bush's Treasury Secretary
Bush's budget director
Bush's chair of the President's Council of Economic Advisors
Bush

List of people who say there was no surplus
A software engineer with no training in finance
Rush Limbaugh
You guys


Outstanding.

Look at it this way. You make $50,000. You spend $60,000. Rather than put the $10,000 extra on a CC, you take it from an escrow account you are holding for someone. Now, is it honest to say you didn't borrow any money just because you didn't take on CC debt? No.

The Clinton admin borrowed the some of monies in the form of intra-government holdings, like SS, etc. as opposed to taking on public debt. They only reported the public debt portion.

 

[8537]

I see that Toro carries the quote Cheney stated about debt not being an issue
when its 2% of GDP like when he said that
its not
when its close to 20% like it is now
its huge
they have no understanding of what any of this means.

Somewhere, an irony meter is pegging. Where in the wide world of sports did you get those 2% / 20% figures from?

 

[JRK]

The world is about 4,500,000,000 billion years old smart-ass. And guess what, there were still no surpluses.

List of people who say there was a surplus:
Bush's Treasury Secretary
Bush's budget director
Bush's chair of the President's Council of Economic Advisors
Bush

List of people who say there was no surplus
A software engineer with no training in finance
Rush Limbaugh
You guys


Outstanding.

Look at it this way. You make $50,000. You spend $60,000. Rather than put the $10,000 extra on a CC, you take it from an escrow account you are holding for someone. Now, is it honest to say you didn't borrow any money just because you didn't take on CC debt? No.

The Clinton admin borrowed the some of monies in the form of intra-government holdings, like SS, etc. as opposed to taking on public debt. They only reported the public debt portion.

He did
You know thats ok with me
My issue is with the way GWB has been treated, but whats the worse is that 1 person cannot see how big of a mistake Barrack Hussein Obama is
This country is crashing
and he has no clue in how to stop it

 

[Toro]

I see that Toro carries the quote Cheney stated about debt not being an issue
when its 2% of GDP like when he said that
its not
when its close to 20% like it is now
its huge
they have no understanding of what any of this means.

Somewhere, an irony meter is pegging. Where in the wide world of sports did you get those 2% / 20% figures from?

lol

I was going to say the same thing. The OP is becoming more ironically humorous as it goes on.

 

[JRK]

I see that Toro carries the quote Cheney stated about debt not being an issue
when its 2% of GDP like when he said that
its not
when its close to 20% like it is now
its huge
they have no understanding of what any of this means.

Somewhere, an irony meter is pegging. Where in the wide world of sports did you get those 2% / 20% figures from?

lol

I was going to say the same thing. The OP is becoming more ironically humorous as it goes on.

US Federal Deficit as percent of GDP - Charts Tables History
OK 12% for Obama
2% W
you still think all of this funny?
it is a very weired sense of humor you have

 

[Toro]

The world is about 4,500,000,000 billion years old smart-ass. And guess what, there were still no surpluses.

List of people who say there was a surplus:
Bush's Treasury Secretary
Bush's budget director
Bush's chair of the President's Council of Economic Advisors
Bush

List of people who say there was no surplus
A software engineer with no training in finance
Rush Limbaugh
You guys


Outstanding.

Look at it this way. You make $50,000. You spend $60,000. Rather than put the $10,000 extra on a CC, you take it from an escrow account you are holding for someone. Now, is it honest to say you didn't borrow any money just because you didn't take on CC debt? No.

The Clinton admin borrowed the some of monies in the form of intra-government holdings, like SS, etc. as opposed to taking on public debt. They only reported the public debt portion.

That's not quite true. What happened was that there was a surge in payroll taxes, which caused the surplus in the trusts to rise. That money was then used to pay down the public debt rather than to strengthen SS. The criticism at the time, and its a fair one, is that it should have been kept in the trusts. That's why people say "They borrowed from SS." But from an asset/liability standpoint, it makes no difference, since the money would have been used to pay down debt of the United States in the trusts. That's why the net debt of the United States fell in the 90s. From a cash flow perspective, it makes no difference either. More cash from taxes came than cash was spent. That's a surplus. The reason why the total national debt went up is because of a quirk in accounting and reporting. When there is a surge in SS receipts, that money is funneled through the SS trusts and is credited as a liability against the balance of the US Treasury. However, it is debited as an asset in the SS trusts, and the two offset. It's a wash. But in the total debt figure rises because the figure doesn't include the assets of the US government, including the trusts.

A better analogy is that you made $60,000, spent $50,000, used the $10,000 left over to pay off your credit card debt, then you took out a $20,000 HELOC to build another bathroom, increasing the value of your house by the same amount. You pay off some debt, your total debt goes up but your net debt falls.

 

[Toro]

Somewhere, an irony meter is pegging. Where in the wide world of sports did you get those 2% / 20% figures from?

lol

I was going to say the same thing. The OP is becoming more ironically humorous as it goes on.

US Federal Deficit as percent of GDP - Charts Tables History
OK 12% for Obama
2% W
you still think all of this funny?
it is a very weired sense of humor you have

I don't think the debt is funny. I think someone starting a thread asking if other people understand debt and taxes when they don't is funny though, no offense.

 

[JRK]

lol

I was going to say the same thing. The OP is becoming more ironically humorous as it goes on.

US Federal Deficit as percent of GDP - Charts Tables History
OK 12% for Obama
2% W
you still think all of this funny?
it is a very weired sense of humor you have

I don't think the debt is funny. I think someone starting a thread asking if other people understand debt and taxes when they don't is funny though, no offense.

Toro you have added nothing to this conversation and made accusations based about me and you know nothing about me
I Liberals cannot win the debate of facts, so you lower who and what you are to attack the messenger
What is it about taxes and debt I do not understand?
I understand this Toro. I have nothing to fear in this debate. I have no reason to lower who I am to your level
I pray that I never find my self following such a lost cause that the only way I can make it seem like it is working is to try and hurt those who dis agree with me

My thread is about do you understand what this issue is about?
well do you?
be cause there are some who do
and what you have done is make a joke out of it
there is nothing funny about the status of this country and those of us who work to support those of you who do not

 

[JRK]

lol

I was going to say the same thing. The OP is becoming more ironically humorous as it goes on.

US Federal Deficit as percent of GDP - Charts Tables History
OK 12% for Obama
2% W
you still think all of this funny?
it is a very weired sense of humor you have

I don't think the debt is funny. I think someone starting a thread asking if other people understand debt and taxes when they don't is funny though, no offense.

Hey bud
I am still waiting
what is it that you think is so funny?
you got a big mouth but not one word to back it up

What is it I do not understand about cash flow?
about how debt can be serviced?
how to use OPM?
positive cash flow
front loading?
tax issues?
taxable income?
Taxing the "rich"
tax tables
1099?

Toro the thread is about Obama think he can spend my money better than I can to create jobs
Toro the thread is about the way you support is not working bud

I am still waiting
what is it about this failure of a presidency that i do not understand?

and for once, what do you think we should do to fix it sense you know so much?