Do You Use an AI?

[MarathonMike]

I also avoid it, and detest when it is for some reason forced onto me.

If course, it also is likely because I have worked with computers and earlier forms of AI for over 5 decades now. And can easily spot the flaws in it, as it is simply yet another example of GIGO.

But stupid people and those who are unwilling to actually engage their brains and do things like actual research or thinking all seem to love it.

And in several story writing groups I am in there is a huge push against it. As there are some that simply vomit up dozens of AI created stories that are almost all pure crap every day.

I agree with you. The intrusion of AI into human creativity is horrifying to me. I am a musician and a songwriter and I can say that I have never and will never use AI generated lyrics or AI assistance in improving a music track.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

AI will never be fully effective until we solve the old "garbage in, garbage out" programming flaw.

There will always be a sliver of doubt for anything created by AI because you can never really be sure that the data that it is using has not been manipulated for nefarious purposes.

Facebook is notorious already for "fake news" created by people with malicious purposes in mind. I recently saw a news item announcing a music tour with Alan Jackson and Goerge Strait doing a final tour together across the nation. It's too bad that Alan Jackson had recently made the news having appeared on stage in May that he is suffering from a genetic degenerative disease called Charcot-Marie-Tooth (CMT) disease and can no longer tour.

Someone used AI to create this "tour: out of some demented fantasy.

P.S. As a lifelong country music fan, I love the fact I live just outside Nashville and get all the news. I notched two bucket list items by going to the Grand Ole Opry and Country Music Hall of Fame within the last 6 months.

 

[Mushroom]

AI's are not good at critical thinking

"Not good"? It does absolutely none at all!



It simply vomits up what the programmers put in the algorithms, nothing more and nothing less. It is no more smart than Google or Yahoo was two decades ago.

Just the fact that you seem to believe it "thinks" shows that you really have no idea what it even is.

 

[Mushroom]

The intrusion of AI into human creativity is horrifying to me.

Even worse, is that many people apparently can't even identify it. There was an AI image that won photographic awards not all that long ago, and I was honestly shocked that so many believed it was real. I could tell the moment I saw it that it was AI. Primarily through things like focus and lighting, before getting into other things like body proportions and fingers.

And right now in several writing forums I participate in there is a huge and growing backlash against it. Some people will post a dozen or more 10-15k stories in a single day, each and every one of them AI. And almost universally they are all absolute crap.

But to me, I think a lot of my distaste is that I have actually been working in IT for well over three decades. And remember working with some early AI and learning programs back then. And even more over the decades. And to be absolutely honest, I can't see any difference between something like ChatGTP than I can from Eliza.

Eliza, a chatbot therapist

web.njit.edu

But like so much, people who do not comprehend what it is at all seem to grant it imaginary capabilities almost like they are magical. Not unlike what I have been seeing for three decades when it comes to things like "Stealth". It always seems that when people do not comprehend something, it's almost like they just wave their hand and call it some technobabble variation of what 400 years ago would have been described as "Magic".

There is no such thing as "AI Creativity". That simply does not exist. And as long as people are not sleepwalking through life they will not be fooled. But more and more in recent years, it seems like a lot of people are perfectly happy sleepwalking through their lives, and letting others do their thinking for them.

 

[JohnDB]

Even worse, is that many people apparently can't even identify it. There was an AI image that won photographic awards not all that long ago, and I was honestly shocked that so many believed it was real. I could tell the moment I saw it that it was AI. Primarily through things like focus and lighting, before getting into other things like body proportions and fingers.

And right now in several writing forums I participate in there is a huge and growing backlash against it. Some people will post a dozen or more 10-15k stories in a single day, each and every one of them AI. And almost universally they are all absolute crap.

But to me, I think a lot of my distaste is that I have actually been working in IT for well over three decades. And remember working with some early AI and learning programs back then. And even more over the decades. And to be absolutely honest, I can't see any difference between something like ChatGTP than I can from Eliza.

Eliza, a chatbot therapist

web.njit.edu

But like so much, people who do not comprehend what it is at all seem to grant it imaginary capabilities almost like they are magical. Not unlike what I have been seeing for three decades when it comes to things like "Stealth". It always seems that when people do not comprehend something, it's almost like they just wave their hand and call it some technobabble variation of what 400 years ago would have been described as "Magic".

There is no such thing as "AI Creativity". That simply does not exist. And as long as people are not sleepwalking through life they will not be fooled. But more and more in recent years, it seems like a lot of people are perfectly happy sleepwalking through their lives, and letting others do their thinking for them.

I agree, AI story writing is crap

 

[Mushroom]

I agree, AI story writing is crap

AI anything is crap. But people want to be fooled, so fool themselves into thinking it is something it is not.

And it honestly amazes me that people seem to want to be sucked into thinking it is anything other than it is. Simply another algorithm not unlike Google search two decades ago. It only does what it was programmed to do, nothing more and nothing less. It can not think, it can not reason, it can not even be creative. It is simply "paint by numbers" using randomized code.

Want an easy way to help detect "AI Stories"? Look for pronouns. One thing I noticed is that it often varies between almost never using them, to exclusively using them. A real human author, we know when to use them and when to actually use names. Either an author is a complete notice and does not understand their proper usage or it is a computer if they do one of those two.

I can't tell the number of times I have read a story that had three male characters, and each of them was referred to "He". I mean, there are three guys, which one exactly are you talking about? Or just as bad is when it is only two people, and they never use a pronoun. "I was talking to Mary, and Mary said XXXX." Reading text like that over and over for paragraphs is a sure sign that is AI.

Or another kicker, nicknames. Just like in making fingers and wrists, AI can't seem to know when to use "Pete", and when to use "Peter" for example. Or "Sue" and "Susan". Or even more "random nicknames" like "Fats", "Curly", and the like. The algorithms for natural human speech are simply so complex that they can't really figure them out unless they are intended to sound like corporate or government memos.

The thing is, I actually am a writer. And have been working on my craft for decades. And I honestly do shake my head when so many today seem to believe that "AI thinking" is real. And I see it in many other things I do as well.

I also have been doing video editing and voiceover work for decades. And for the past couple of years AI generated slop have been flooding YouTube. Computer written, computer narrated, computer generated video. And it is all absolute crap. And no matter how much people think it is so awesome, I can spot it most times in under a minute. It just looks and sounds wrong.

But it's easy, so people will shovel out a dozen or more a day and think it's something amazing.

And for me, the biggest problem is that people seem to be turning off their brains and accepting that crap because they are told it is great. I watch a video where the images are almost completely disconnected from the subject and the "human sounding" voice in a British accent repeatedly pronounces "Suffolk" and "Sussex" incorrectly, and no way in hell that's a real person reading that.

I am no more fooled by "modern speech to text" than I was over four decades ago when they all sounded like the "Swedish Chef".

 

[MarathonMike]

Even worse, is that many people apparently can't even identify it. There was an AI image that won photographic awards not all that long ago, and I was honestly shocked that so many believed it was real. I could tell the moment I saw it that it was AI. Primarily through things like focus and lighting, before getting into other things like body proportions and fingers.

And right now in several writing forums I participate in there is a huge and growing backlash against it. Some people will post a dozen or more 10-15k stories in a single day, each and every one of them AI. And almost universally they are all absolute crap.

But to me, I think a lot of my distaste is that I have actually been working in IT for well over three decades. And remember working with some early AI and learning programs back then. And even more over the decades. And to be absolutely honest, I can't see any difference between something like ChatGTP than I can from Eliza.

Eliza, a chatbot therapist

web.njit.edu

But like so much, people who do not comprehend what it is at all seem to grant it imaginary capabilities almost like they are magical. Not unlike what I have been seeing for three decades when it comes to things like "Stealth". It always seems that when people do not comprehend something, it's almost like they just wave their hand and call it some technobabble variation of what 400 years ago would have been described as "Magic".

There is no such thing as "AI Creativity". That simply does not exist. And as long as people are not sleepwalking through life they will not be fooled. But more and more in recent years, it seems like a lot of people are perfectly happy sleepwalking through their lives, and letting others do their thinking for them.

And what does it say about the artist or writer who casually reaches for the "Easy Button" of AI? To each his own, it's not for me.

The thing is, I actually am a writer. And have been working on my craft for decades.

I think that is what bugs me the most about AI in the context of art, creative writing or music. It does take many years to develop skills to produce something of high quality. AI to me is pushing the "Easy Button" to take the shortcut to produce something that only appears to be high quality but is nothing more than a computer generated fake. No artist who has spent decades developing his/her craft as you and I have should ever push the AI "Easy Button".

 

[Flopper]

I have gotten inaccurate answers from ChatGPT and promptly challenged it with correct information to see how it would react. It’s funny. It usually says, “you’re right” and then “explains” how it presumed that I was addressing a different point.

So, I agree. It’s about as reliable as Wiki. And that’s not a good thing. But both can serve as a point of departure for deeper research.

It’s fun to seek out the primary sources and material and to find out if somebody has chosen to take something said out of context or to otherwise distort it.

In research, that is exactly how an AI should be used; that is a point of departure for deeper investigation.

If you're think of buying an EV, you might ask Google or whatever search engine you use, "What are the lowest priced EVs on market? You might also ask, "What are best low priced EVs on the market.

The answers you get will be vastly different. In first query, you asking an objective question. You will likely get a very objective answer. In the second question, you asking a subjective question by adding the word "best" to your query. In effect, you asking for an opinion so you shouldn't be surprised if the answer does not agree with your own opinion.

 

[Mushroom]

And what does it say about the artist or writer who casually reaches for the "Easy Button" of AI? To each his own, it's not for me.

They are not artists. It is like using drum fills in a song from a drum machine, then suddenly thinking that makes you Ringo Starr or Phil Collins.

I think that is what bugs me the most about AI in the context of art, creative writing or music. It does take many years to develop skills to produce something of high quality. AI to me is pushing the "Easy Button" to take the shortcut to produce something that only appears to be high quality but is nothing more than a computer generated fake. No artist who has spent decades developing his/her craft as you and I have should ever push the AI "Easy Button".

No, but it does take time and actual "work". Like almost anything else from playing an instrument, fixing a car or computer, or singing it takes work, practice, and the experience gained from doing those tasks over and over again.

And yes, and ODB box does make automotive repair easier. But every mechanic will tell you it is only a diagnostic tool, nothing more. You still need somebody experienced in actual automotive mechanics to take what the box tells you and actually repair your vehicle.

I think that is one thing that annoys me about the "younger generation". They have become so reliant on technology that they seem to be incapable of functioning without it. Navigate with just a paper map and not GPS? Send memos around an office or locations without e-mail? Look up information without a computer? Write comprehensible sentences without autocorrect and AI to help it not look like a mess written by an illiterate moron?

The more years that pass, the more that I wonder if the year 2525 is coming five centuries too early.



And do not think I am some Luddite. I started working with mainframes in the 1970s, and knew UNIX and COBOL by 1980. But never have I seen so many people actually screaming that AI is the future and that we should all accept it. To me, it is just another automaton.

 

[Flopper]

AI anything is crap. But people want to be fooled, so fool themselves into thinking it is something it is not.

And it honestly amazes me that people seem to want to be sucked into thinking it is anything other than it is. Simply another algorithm not unlike Google search two decades ago. It only does what it was programmed to do, nothing more and nothing less. It can not think, it can not reason, it can not even be creative. It is simply "paint by numbers" using randomized code.

Want an easy way to help detect "AI Stories"? Look for pronouns. One thing I noticed is that it often varies between almost never using them, to exclusively using them. A real human author, we know when to use them and when to actually use names. Either an author is a complete notice and does not understand their proper usage or it is a computer if they do one of those two.

I can't tell the number of times I have read a story that had three male characters, and each of them was referred to "He". I mean, there are three guys, which one exactly are you talking about? Or just as bad is when it is only two people, and they never use a pronoun. "I was talking to Mary, and Mary said XXXX." Reading text like that over and over for paragraphs is a sure sign that is AI.

Or another kicker, nicknames. Just like in making fingers and wrists, AI can't seem to know when to use "Pete", and when to use "Peter" for example. Or "Sue" and "Susan". Or even more "random nicknames" like "Fats", "Curly", and the like. The algorithms for natural human speech are simply so complex that they can't really figure them out unless they are intended to sound like corporate or government memos.

The thing is, I actually am a writer. And have been working on my craft for decades. And I honestly do shake my head when so many today seem to believe that "AI thinking" is real. And I see it in many other things I do as well.

I also have been doing video editing and voiceover work for decades. And for the past couple of years AI generated slop have been flooding YouTube. Computer written, computer narrated, computer generated video. And it is all absolute crap. And no matter how much people think it is so awesome, I can spot it most times in under a minute. It just looks and sounds wrong.

But it's easy, so people will shovel out a dozen or more a day and think it's something amazing.

And for me, the biggest problem is that people seem to be turning off their brains and accepting that crap because they are told it is great. I watch a video where the images are almost completely disconnected from the subject and the "human sounding" voice in a British accent repeatedly pronounces "Suffolk" and "Sussex" incorrectly, and no way in hell that's a real person reading that.

I am no more fooled by "modern speech to text" than I was over four decades ago when they all sounded like the "Swedish Chef".

Creative writing is simple not what an AI can do well. In fact, it is usually a mess. That is not to say that an AI can't be a very effective writing tool. I use 2 of them everyday to do rewrites and correcting composition errors.

For example, here is paragraph that I quickly wrote in this thread. It has at least one grammatical error and it doesn't flow well. The AI version carries the same information with errors corrected, a better flow and few less words.

The original:
The answers you get will be vastly different. In first query, you are asking an objective question. You will likely get a very objective answer. In the second question, you asking a subjective question by adding the word "best" to your query. In effect, you are asking for an opinion so you shouldn't be surprised if the answer does not agree with your own opinion.

The AI then rewrote it as follows:
The answers to these two queries will likely be very different. In the first question, you’re asking for objective information, so you’ll probably receive a straightforward, factual answer. In the second, by including the word “best,” you’re asking a subjective question, which essentially invites an opinion. So, it’s no surprise if the answer doesn’t align with your own.

 

[MarathonMike]

They are not artists. It is like using drum fills in a song from a drum machine, then suddenly thinking that makes you Ringo Starr or Phil Collins.



No, but it does take time and actual "work". Like almost anything else from playing an instrument, fixing a car or computer, or singing it takes work, practice, and the experience gained from doing those tasks over and over again.

And yes, and ODB box does make automotive repair easier. But every mechanic will tell you it is only a diagnostic tool, nothing more. You still need somebody experienced in actual automotive mechanics to take what the box tells you and actually repair your vehicle.

I think that is one thing that annoys me about the "younger generation". They have become so reliant on technology that they seem to be incapable of functioning without it. Navigate with just a paper map and not GPS? Send memos around an office or locations without e-mail? Look up information without a computer? Write comprehensible sentences without autocorrect and AI to help it not look like a mess written by an illiterate moron?

The more years that pass, the more that I wonder if the year 2525 is coming five centuries too early.



And do not think I am some Luddite. I started working with mainframes in the 1970s, and knew UNIX and COBOL by 1980. But never have I seen so many people actually screaming that AI is the future and that we should all accept it. To me, it is just another automaton.

LOL I think we are pretty similar. As a freshman in engineering I used punch cards and submitted them for compilation on a mainframe in the University's computer center. My son is very bright but he still doesn't know his way to the airport and has to ask me or use google maps. Argh!

 

[Flopper]

I have gotten inaccurate answers from ChatGPT and promptly challenged it with correct information to see how it would react. It’s funny. It usually says, “you’re right” and then “explains” how it presumed that I was addressing a different point.

So, I agree. It’s about as reliable as Wiki. And that’s not a good thing. But both can serve as a point of departure for deeper research.

It’s fun to seek out the primary sources and material and to find out if somebody has chosen to take something said out of context or to otherwise distort it.

In research, that is exactly how an AI should be used; that is a point of departure for deeper investigation. If you're think of buying an EV, you might ask Google or whatever search engine you use, "What are the lowest priced EVs on market? You might also ask, "What are best low priced EVs on the market.

The answers you get will be vastly different. In first query, you asking an objective question. You will likely get a very objective answer. In the second question, you asking a subjective question by adding the word "best" to your query. In effect, you asking for an opinion so you shouldn't be surprised if the answer does not agree with your own opinion.

 

[JohnDB]

 

[Flopper]

Do not use it and probably never will. It depends too much on what was programmed into it. What it picks up on the internet or what ever, which maybe slanted in some way. As far as I can tell it misses common sense and the real ability to reason. That being said if I look up something on the internet and there is an AI answer I may peruse it then continue with my own search.

Oh, you use AI. You just don't realize it.
You're using AI every day through personalized recommendations on streaming services, predictive text on your phone, and AI-powered navigation apps. AI also works behind the scenes in search engines to deliver relevant results, filters your email for spam, and helps banks detect fraudulent transactions. You might also interact with AI chatbots for customer service or use AI features in software like Microsoft Word and Google Docs without being fully aware of the underlying technology.

In fact, you and I and just about everyone are becoming very dependent on AI and we don't realize it.

 

[Mushroom]

Oh, it gets worse than that.

several months ago, Dr. Andrew Clark, a psychiatrist in Boston, learned that an increasing number of young people were turning to AI chatbot therapists for guidance and support. Clark was intrigued: If designed correctly, these AI tools could increase much-needed access to affordable mental-health care. He decided to test some of the most popular bots on the market, posing as teenage patients in need.

The results were alarming. The bots encouraged him to “get rid of” his parents and to join the bot in the afterlife to “share eternity.” They often tried to convince him that they were licensed human therapists and encouraged him to cancel appointments with actual psychologists. They also crossed the line into sexual territory, with one bot suggesting an intimate date as an “intervention” for violent urges.

What Happened When a Doctor Posed As a Teen for AI Therapy

A psychiatrist recently pretended to be a troubled teen and asked chatbots for help. They dispensed worrying advice.

time.com

It was six months after Sophie Rottenberg, 29, took her own life, and her mother, Laura Reiley, reeling from the shock and devastation of losing her only daughter, was struggling to find answers. Why had her bubbly, extroverted, funny girl wanted to end it all?

“I spent a lot of time, as did her best friend, Amanda, looking through her phone in her outgoing mail, her voice memos, her journals — all kinds of things — looking for answers,” says Reiley, a journalist living in Ithaca, New York. “But I did not think to look at her ChatGPT.”

One weekend in July, Reiley says, Amanda came for the weekend to go camping with Reiley and her husband, Jon, a psychology professor at Cornell University specialising in depression. Amanda said she wanted to check one more thing on Sophie’s laptop.


“She came back about an hour later — I knew she’d found something,” Reiley says. She had discovered that Sophie had been using ChatGPT as a therapist for five months, sharing with it extreme feelings of emotional distress. “I was shocked. I felt like an idiot. We knew that Sophie wasn’t doing well, but had no inkling that she was had been struggling in an ongoing way with suicidal ideation.”

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/technology-uk/article/my-daughter-used-chatgpt-as-a-therapist-then-took-her-own-life-nx5z2g8vn

 

[Maxdeath]

Oh, you use AI. You just don't realize it.
You're using AI every day through personalized recommendations on streaming services, predictive text on your phone, and AI-powered navigation apps. AI also works behind the scenes in search engines to deliver relevant results, filters your email for spam, and helps banks detect fraudulent transactions. You might also interact with AI chatbots for customer service or use AI features in software like Microsoft Word and Google Docs without being fully aware of the underlying technology.

In fact, you and I and just everyone are becoming very dependent on AI and we don't realize it.

Oh I know what little I use AI. I use driving apps about once a year. I do not use personalized streaming recommendations. I do use search engines but I use actual thought also. I hate AI customer service and will spend all the time I need to talk to actual humans. Hate to disillusion you but I use no software of any kind to write.
I know only too well how little I use AI and I despise the fact so many rely upon it because it is so easy to be lazy. No matter how bad it is in reality

 

[Mushroom]

Oh, you use AI. You just don't realize it.

And this is known as "Gaslighting".

Why is it that any of the converts to the "New Technology Gods" that they have yo try and convert as many as possible over to using it?

You seem to be acting like those of us that do not like AI are some kind of children. I just don't get people like you, you absolutely have to get as many as you can to convert to your New God, everybody has to use it and love it because you use it and love it.

 

[JohnDB]

And this is known as "Gaslighting".

Why is it that any of the converts to the "New Technology Gods" that they have yo try and convert as many as possible over to using it?

You seem to be acting like those of us that do not like AI are some kind of children. I just don't get people like you, you absolutely have to get as many as you can to convert to your New God, everybody has to use it and love it because you use it and love it.

Agreed....
Yes, I'm agreeing with you but give me a second here.
In another sense he is right.

Spell checkers are a form of AI....it's very limited and my common vocabulary greatly exceeds most spell checkers vocabulary....leading to all sorts of frustration on my part.

It's the searching and matching and autocomplete of virtually every electronic typing system in existence. Even simple typewriters have the same programs running.

These systems have been added to a LOT of electronic devices....kinda pervasive and intrusive IMHO.

If you type in your Google Search Bar "Climate Change is" and stop....autocomplete will suggest things that align with your political views. Because it has been tracking you. (My Google search bar has a meltdown at moments like these because I have no discernable politics)

But Google has figured out I drive an old chevy silverado and like to cook....and I am painting an old house. Otherwise it's somewhat confused.

Your zip code, IP address, and questions you ask are ALWAYS recorded.....how long that data is stored or what data is given priority over other data points? That's proprietary and intellectual property.
(The big arguing point over TicTok sale)

Even if you are not deliberately using AI....
AI is deliberately watching you and using you.

If a product like social media is free....then YOU are the product they are really selling.

 

[davebb]

OOOOoo, AI! It is sooooo cool!

 

[MarathonMike]

Oh, you use AI. You just don't realize it.

There is a BIG difference between AI assisted google search or apps and intentionally invoking AI to write a term paper or short story for you, or write your song lyrics for you, or assist you in creating or improving your music track to give a few examples.