Do you think that if the blockade to Gaza was lifted today that the attacks against Israel would cea

[Roudy]

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

Right after Israel handed the keys to a Jew free Gaza, the Palestinians elected Hamas, a terrorist organization who then started shooting rockets and suicide bombing Israelis, as a way to thank them for giving them their so called land back. So anybody who thinks that lifting the blockade would cause Hamas to stop shooting rockets is probably on hallucinatory drugs. Hamas animals only understand one language. Their ultimate stated goal is the total destruction of Israel, therefore no negotiation.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Humanity, Tommy Tainant, et al,

Whatever else you might think of Israel, they did not become the most successful country in the immediate region through stupidity. You may not agree with the strategies they adopted, the paths they have taken, or the choices they have made; but in the overall ∑ total of all things considered --- not bad.

Don't think for a minute that they have not conducted a risk assessment on the probable outcomes to the question of lifting the blockade. The facts on the ground have changed and seemed constantly moving; so the "Risk Assessment" is constantly up-dated.

And there is the political angle to consider. If Israel were to relax or lift the Naval Blockade today, that would be propagandized as both a military and political victory for HAMAS and essentially vindicating the violence employed and the strategies used to break the (so-called) siege. Each time HAMAS attempts to exploit the actions of Israel, relative to the conditions in which they find themselves, the aggravate the conditions more and actually induce a setback. AND, every time HAMAS or the Palestinian terrorist in general, conduct hostile operations, then they cannot even used the provisions of Article 6, Fourth Geneva Convention, to end application of the Convention for one-year after the close of military operations. Every time HAMAS, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (all splinter groups), and the martyr's brigades (eg al-Aqsa and al-Qassam) opens up hostilities, the the clock is reset. There has no been a continuous year of non-violence since the time the Arab-Palestinians first pledged there would be no peace, when the Khartoum Resolution reaffirmed it, and as Khaled Meshaal repeated in the last several years.

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

(COMMENT)

There is no reason to believe that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will adopt a non-violent posture upon lifting the Naval Blockade. The Palestinians will simply exploit the Mediterranean gateway to smuggle more weapons.

* Example:

On 5 March, the Israeli Navy intercepted a ship containing dozens of long-range rockets being smuggled from Iran to the Gaza Strip.​

Anything which helped those people would be welcomed.However it would need to be accompanied by the Israelis stopping their random slaughter.

(COMMENT)

There is no "random slaughter" on the part of the Israelis. Israel has been under intense scrutiny by the UN Membership, select UN Activities and NGOs, since the turn of the century. And each time Israel has taken action against the Palestinians, there were numerous Hostile Arab Palestinian attacks that preceded the Israeli Response.

Security Council Resolution 2220 (2015) EXCERPTS:
• Page 1/9
Noting that this resolution focuses on the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, including in respect of Council-mandated arms embargoes,

Gravely concerned that the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons in many regions of the world continue to pose threats to international peace and security, cause significant loss of life, contribute to instability and insecurity and continue to undermine the effectiveness of the Security Council in discharging its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security,

Page 4/9
Expressing its determination to implement existing and to take further practical steps to prevent the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, including in support of other ongoing processes,

1. Welcomes efforts made by Member States, regional and subregional organizations in addressing the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, and encourages the establishment or strengthening, where appropriate, of subregional and regional cooperation, coordination and information sharing mechanisms, in particular, transborder customs cooperation and networks for information-sharing, with a view to preventing, combating, and eradicating illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons;

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

10. Recognizes the need for Member States to put in place, where they do not exist, adequate laws, regulations and administrative procedures to exercise effective control over the production of small arms and light weapons within their areas of jurisdiction and over the export, import, transit or retransfer of such we apons, in order to prevent illegal manufacture of and illicit trafficking in small arms and light weapons, or their diversion to unauthorized recipients;​

SOURCE: S/RES/2220 (2015)

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.

"HAMAS and Jordanian Brotherhood Smuggle Weapons into Palestinian Territories" EXCERPTS
IPT News Service 2 December 2014

The Israeli Navy has foiled numerous attempts to smuggle weapons to Hamas off the coast of Gaza since the end of last summer's war.
"There have been a number of smuggling attempts in recent months that we have thwarted. We are monitoring the area day and night; thwarting smuggling is one of central missions," a senior Israeli navy source told the Jerusalem Post.
Meanwhile, members of Jordan's Muslim Brotherhood reportedly tried to create a secret military organization planning terrorist attacks in the West Bank, senior Jordanian sources told Al-Hayat.
Jordanian officials arrested 21 Muslim Brotherhood personnel for smuggling money and weapons into the West Bank. Two of the suspects were charged with getting military training in Gaza.
The Jordanian sources revealed that "these two young men tried to train other Muslim Brotherhood members in order to carry out operations in the occupied West Bank." Salah al-Arouri, a senior Hamas official based in Turkey, also came up in the investigation.
These allegations come after Israeli authorities thwarted a large-scale transnational Hamas network planning to attack Israelis in Jerusalem, the West Bank and overseas. Hamas' new headquarters in Turkey reportedly oversees the terrorist organization's West Bank operations.
SOURCE: Investigative Project on Terrorism

(SIDEBAR)

There is no question that the Palestinians have mounted a superior campaign for hearts and minds on social media. This propaganda program has multiple purposes and multiple fronts, but its most immediate effect was to open an extremely exploitable exposé on three fronts:

• The disparity between civilian deaths; as if the casualties on each side must be equal. Do not make association relative to Customary Law Rules 23 and 24.

• To make an association between Israeli Security Barriers and "apartheid" and playing the "race card" at every opportunity. This disguises three factors:

∆ The actual mean in ICC Code of the Crime of "Apartheid."
∆ The fact that Israel has more racially diverse population than the Palestinians.
∆ That there are people trying to break-in to Israel from Africa. The number of immigrants that arrived illegally was estimated to be 26,635 in 2010, and over 55,000 during the period 2010 to 2012. The Palestinians do not have an illegal immigration problem. It is the Hashemite Kingdom that has a control problem with Palestinians illegally crossing into Jordan. ​

There is no reason to suggest that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will cease operations against Israel, when that is blockade is simply one of their goals. Just as the old Palestine National Charter (1968) indicated, and as the HAMAS Policy (2012) describes today, Israel is not a country by a province of Palestine.

Some of what we will put forth would fall under the category of fundamentals and principles, and some under policies and positions. These are summed up as follows: (2 of 19 Points)

1. Palestine, from its river to its sea, from its north to its south, is the land of the Palestinians; their homeland, and their legitimate right. We will not relinquish an inch or any part of it -for any reason or under any circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine, in its entirety, is an Arab and Islamic land. It has Islamic and Arab affiliations and is considered a blessed and sacred land. Moreover, it has a special place in the heart of every Arab and Muslim, as well as standing and respect in all religions.
​

Or we can to the beginning:

In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:

​

​

​

(a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
(b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
(c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
(d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
(e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
(f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
​

As long as there is a State of Israel WHERE the Jewish People can construct a safe haven, free from the political expedient expulsions; --- a land where they can preserve and protect their culture from the excesses of outside leaders acting under the color of law; there will be an opposition. In 1891 it was the Czar, 1933 it was the NAZI supported by England and the US, and today it is the Arab, supported by the UN.

Most Respectfully,
R

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.​

So?

 

[Challenger]

Humanity, Tommy Tainant, et al,

Whatever else you might think of Israel, they did not become the most successful country in the immediate region through stupidity. You may not agree with the strategies they adopted, the paths they have taken, or the choices they have made; but in the overall ∑ total of all things considered --- not bad.

Don't think for a minute that they have not conducted a risk assessment on the probable outcomes to the question of lifting the blockade. The facts on the ground have changed and seemed constantly moving; so the "Risk Assessment" is constantly up-dated.

And there is the political angle to consider. If Israel were to relax or lift the Naval Blockade today, that would be propagandized as both a military and political victory for HAMAS and essentially vindicating the violence employed and the strategies used to break the (so-called) siege. Each time HAMAS attempts to exploit the actions of Israel, relative to the conditions in which they find themselves, the aggravate the conditions more and actually induce a setback. AND, every time HAMAS or the Palestinian terrorist in general, conduct hostile operations, then they cannot even used the provisions of Article 6, Fourth Geneva Convention, to end application of the Convention for one-year after the close of military operations. Every time HAMAS, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (all splinter groups), and the martyr's brigades (eg al-Aqsa and al-Qassam) opens up hostilities, the the clock is reset. There has no been a continuous year of non-violence since the time the Arab-Palestinians first pledged there would be no peace, when the Khartoum Resolution reaffirmed it, and as Khaled Meshaal repeated in the last several years.

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

(COMMENT)

There is no reason to believe that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will adopt a non-violent posture upon lifting the Naval Blockade. The Palestinians will simply exploit the Mediterranean gateway to smuggle more weapons.

* Example:

On 5 March, the Israeli Navy intercepted a ship containing dozens of long-range rockets being smuggled from Iran to the Gaza Strip.​

Anything which helped those people would be welcomed.However it would need to be accompanied by the Israelis stopping their random slaughter.

(COMMENT)

There is no "random slaughter" on the part of the Israelis. Israel has been under intense scrutiny by the UN Membership, select UN Activities and NGOs, since the turn of the century. And each time Israel has taken action against the Palestinians, there were numerous Hostile Arab Palestinian attacks that preceded the Israeli Response.

Security Council Resolution 2220 (2015) EXCERPTS:
• Page 1/9
Noting that this resolution focuses on the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, including in respect of Council-mandated arms embargoes,

Gravely concerned that the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons in many regions of the world continue to pose threats to international peace and security, cause significant loss of life, contribute to instability and insecurity and continue to undermine the effectiveness of the Security Council in discharging its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security,

Page 4/9
Expressing its determination to implement existing and to take further practical steps to prevent the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, including in support of other ongoing processes,

1. Welcomes efforts made by Member States, regional and subregional organizations in addressing the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, and encourages the establishment or strengthening, where appropriate, of subregional and regional cooperation, coordination and information sharing mechanisms, in particular, transborder customs cooperation and networks for information-sharing, with a view to preventing, combating, and eradicating illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons;

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

10. Recognizes the need for Member States to put in place, where they do not exist, adequate laws, regulations and administrative procedures to exercise effective control over the production of small arms and light weapons within their areas of jurisdiction and over the export, import, transit or retransfer of such we apons, in order to prevent illegal manufacture of and illicit trafficking in small arms and light weapons, or their diversion to unauthorized recipients;​

SOURCE: S/RES/2220 (2015)

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.

"HAMAS and Jordanian Brotherhood Smuggle Weapons into Palestinian Territories" EXCERPTS
IPT News Service 2 December 2014

The Israeli Navy has foiled numerous attempts to smuggle weapons to Hamas off the coast of Gaza since the end of last summer's war.
"There have been a number of smuggling attempts in recent months that we have thwarted. We are monitoring the area day and night; thwarting smuggling is one of central missions," a senior Israeli navy source told the Jerusalem Post.
Meanwhile, members of Jordan's Muslim Brotherhood reportedly tried to create a secret military organization planning terrorist attacks in the West Bank, senior Jordanian sources told Al-Hayat.
Jordanian officials arrested 21 Muslim Brotherhood personnel for smuggling money and weapons into the West Bank. Two of the suspects were charged with getting military training in Gaza.
The Jordanian sources revealed that "these two young men tried to train other Muslim Brotherhood members in order to carry out operations in the occupied West Bank." Salah al-Arouri, a senior Hamas official based in Turkey, also came up in the investigation.
These allegations come after Israeli authorities thwarted a large-scale transnational Hamas network planning to attack Israelis in Jerusalem, the West Bank and overseas. Hamas' new headquarters in Turkey reportedly oversees the terrorist organization's West Bank operations.
SOURCE: Investigative Project on Terrorism

(SIDEBAR)

There is no question that the Palestinians have mounted a superior campaign for hearts and minds on social media. This propaganda program has multiple purposes and multiple fronts, but its most immediate effect was to open an extremely exploitable exposé on three fronts:

• The disparity between civilian deaths; as if the casualties on each side must be equal. Do not make association relative to Customary Law Rules 23 and 24.

• To make an association between Israeli Security Barriers and "apartheid" and playing the "race card" at every opportunity. This disguises three factors:

∆ The actual mean in ICC Code of the Crime of "Apartheid."
∆ The fact that Israel has more racially diverse population than the Palestinians.
∆ That there are people trying to break-in to Israel from Africa. The number of immigrants that arrived illegally was estimated to be 26,635 in 2010, and over 55,000 during the period 2010 to 2012. The Palestinians do not have an illegal immigration problem. It is the Hashemite Kingdom that has a control problem with Palestinians illegally crossing into Jordan. ​

There is no reason to suggest that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will cease operations against Israel, when that is blockade is simply one of their goals. Just as the old Palestine National Charter (1968) indicated, and as the HAMAS Policy (2012) describes today, Israel is not a country by a province of Palestine.

Some of what we will put forth would fall under the category of fundamentals and principles, and some under policies and positions. These are summed up as follows: (2 of 19 Points)

1. Palestine, from its river to its sea, from its north to its south, is the land of the Palestinians; their homeland, and their legitimate right. We will not relinquish an inch or any part of it -for any reason or under any circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine, in its entirety, is an Arab and Islamic land. It has Islamic and Arab affiliations and is considered a blessed and sacred land. Moreover, it has a special place in the heart of every Arab and Muslim, as well as standing and respect in all religions.
​

Or we can to the beginning:

In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:

(a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
(b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
(c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
(d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
(e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
(f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
​

As long as there is a State of Israel WHERE the Jewish People can construct a safe haven, free from the political expedient expulsions; --- a land where they can preserve and protect their culture from the excesses of outside leaders acting under the color of law; there will be an opposition. In 1891 it was the Czar, 1933 it was the NAZI supported by England and the US, and today it is the Arab, supported by the UN.

Most Respectfully,
R

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.​

So?

So smuggling small arms and light weapons is frowned upon by the UN, but selling wide area munitions and their delivery systems to repressive regimes that use them to slaughter hundreds, if not thousands, of people is clearly fine.

 

[Challenger]

...and today it is the Arab, supported by the UN.

Which particular "Arab" is that then?

 

[Roudy]

Humanity, Tommy Tainant, et al,

Whatever else you might think of Israel, they did not become the most successful country in the immediate region through stupidity. You may not agree with the strategies they adopted, the paths they have taken, or the choices they have made; but in the overall ∑ total of all things considered --- not bad.

Don't think for a minute that they have not conducted a risk assessment on the probable outcomes to the question of lifting the blockade. The facts on the ground have changed and seemed constantly moving; so the "Risk Assessment" is constantly up-dated.

And there is the political angle to consider. If Israel were to relax or lift the Naval Blockade today, that would be propagandized as both a military and political victory for HAMAS and essentially vindicating the violence employed and the strategies used to break the (so-called) siege. Each time HAMAS attempts to exploit the actions of Israel, relative to the conditions in which they find themselves, the aggravate the conditions more and actually induce a setback. AND, every time HAMAS or the Palestinian terrorist in general, conduct hostile operations, then they cannot even used the provisions of Article 6, Fourth Geneva Convention, to end application of the Convention for one-year after the close of military operations. Every time HAMAS, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (all splinter groups), and the martyr's brigades (eg al-Aqsa and al-Qassam) opens up hostilities, the the clock is reset. There has no been a continuous year of non-violence since the time the Arab-Palestinians first pledged there would be no peace, when the Khartoum Resolution reaffirmed it, and as Khaled Meshaal repeated in the last several years.

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

(COMMENT)

There is no reason to believe that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will adopt a non-violent posture upon lifting the Naval Blockade. The Palestinians will simply exploit the Mediterranean gateway to smuggle more weapons.

* Example:

On 5 March, the Israeli Navy intercepted a ship containing dozens of long-range rockets being smuggled from Iran to the Gaza Strip.​

Anything which helped those people would be welcomed.However it would need to be accompanied by the Israelis stopping their random slaughter.

(COMMENT)

There is no "random slaughter" on the part of the Israelis. Israel has been under intense scrutiny by the UN Membership, select UN Activities and NGOs, since the turn of the century. And each time Israel has taken action against the Palestinians, there were numerous Hostile Arab Palestinian attacks that preceded the Israeli Response.

Security Council Resolution 2220 (2015) EXCERPTS:
• Page 1/9
Noting that this resolution focuses on the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, including in respect of Council-mandated arms embargoes,

Gravely concerned that the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons in many regions of the world continue to pose threats to international peace and security, cause significant loss of life, contribute to instability and insecurity and continue to undermine the effectiveness of the Security Council in discharging its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security,

Page 4/9
Expressing its determination to implement existing and to take further practical steps to prevent the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, including in support of other ongoing processes,

1. Welcomes efforts made by Member States, regional and subregional organizations in addressing the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, and encourages the establishment or strengthening, where appropriate, of subregional and regional cooperation, coordination and information sharing mechanisms, in particular, transborder customs cooperation and networks for information-sharing, with a view to preventing, combating, and eradicating illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons;

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

10. Recognizes the need for Member States to put in place, where they do not exist, adequate laws, regulations and administrative procedures to exercise effective control over the production of small arms and light weapons within their areas of jurisdiction and over the export, import, transit or retransfer of such we apons, in order to prevent illegal manufacture of and illicit trafficking in small arms and light weapons, or their diversion to unauthorized recipients;​

SOURCE: S/RES/2220 (2015)

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.

"HAMAS and Jordanian Brotherhood Smuggle Weapons into Palestinian Territories" EXCERPTS
IPT News Service 2 December 2014

The Israeli Navy has foiled numerous attempts to smuggle weapons to Hamas off the coast of Gaza since the end of last summer's war.
"There have been a number of smuggling attempts in recent months that we have thwarted. We are monitoring the area day and night; thwarting smuggling is one of central missions," a senior Israeli navy source told the Jerusalem Post.
Meanwhile, members of Jordan's Muslim Brotherhood reportedly tried to create a secret military organization planning terrorist attacks in the West Bank, senior Jordanian sources told Al-Hayat.
Jordanian officials arrested 21 Muslim Brotherhood personnel for smuggling money and weapons into the West Bank. Two of the suspects were charged with getting military training in Gaza.
The Jordanian sources revealed that "these two young men tried to train other Muslim Brotherhood members in order to carry out operations in the occupied West Bank." Salah al-Arouri, a senior Hamas official based in Turkey, also came up in the investigation.
These allegations come after Israeli authorities thwarted a large-scale transnational Hamas network planning to attack Israelis in Jerusalem, the West Bank and overseas. Hamas' new headquarters in Turkey reportedly oversees the terrorist organization's West Bank operations.
SOURCE: Investigative Project on Terrorism

(SIDEBAR)

There is no question that the Palestinians have mounted a superior campaign for hearts and minds on social media. This propaganda program has multiple purposes and multiple fronts, but its most immediate effect was to open an extremely exploitable exposé on three fronts:

• The disparity between civilian deaths; as if the casualties on each side must be equal. Do not make association relative to Customary Law Rules 23 and 24.

• To make an association between Israeli Security Barriers and "apartheid" and playing the "race card" at every opportunity. This disguises three factors:

∆ The actual mean in ICC Code of the Crime of "Apartheid."
∆ The fact that Israel has more racially diverse population than the Palestinians.
∆ That there are people trying to break-in to Israel from Africa. The number of immigrants that arrived illegally was estimated to be 26,635 in 2010, and over 55,000 during the period 2010 to 2012. The Palestinians do not have an illegal immigration problem. It is the Hashemite Kingdom that has a control problem with Palestinians illegally crossing into Jordan. ​

There is no reason to suggest that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will cease operations against Israel, when that is blockade is simply one of their goals. Just as the old Palestine National Charter (1968) indicated, and as the HAMAS Policy (2012) describes today, Israel is not a country by a province of Palestine.

Some of what we will put forth would fall under the category of fundamentals and principles, and some under policies and positions. These are summed up as follows: (2 of 19 Points)

1. Palestine, from its river to its sea, from its north to its south, is the land of the Palestinians; their homeland, and their legitimate right. We will not relinquish an inch or any part of it -for any reason or under any circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine, in its entirety, is an Arab and Islamic land. It has Islamic and Arab affiliations and is considered a blessed and sacred land. Moreover, it has a special place in the heart of every Arab and Muslim, as well as standing and respect in all religions.
​

Or we can to the beginning:

In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:

(a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
(b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
(c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
(d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
(e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
(f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
​

As long as there is a State of Israel WHERE the Jewish People can construct a safe haven, free from the political expedient expulsions; --- a land where they can preserve and protect their culture from the excesses of outside leaders acting under the color of law; there will be an opposition. In 1891 it was the Czar, 1933 it was the NAZI supported by England and the US, and today it is the Arab, supported by the UN.

Most Respectfully,
R

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.​

So?

So smuggling small arms and light weapons is frowned upon by the UN, but selling wide area munitions and their delivery systems to repressive regimes that use them to slaughter hundreds, if not thousands, of people is clearly fine.

Yes, sock of Monte, selling weapons to terrorists is frowned upon by the UN.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Humanity, Tommy Tainant, et al,

Whatever else you might think of Israel, they did not become the most successful country in the immediate region through stupidity. You may not agree with the strategies they adopted, the paths they have taken, or the choices they have made; but in the overall ∑ total of all things considered --- not bad.

Don't think for a minute that they have not conducted a risk assessment on the probable outcomes to the question of lifting the blockade. The facts on the ground have changed and seemed constantly moving; so the "Risk Assessment" is constantly up-dated.

And there is the political angle to consider. If Israel were to relax or lift the Naval Blockade today, that would be propagandized as both a military and political victory for HAMAS and essentially vindicating the violence employed and the strategies used to break the (so-called) siege. Each time HAMAS attempts to exploit the actions of Israel, relative to the conditions in which they find themselves, the aggravate the conditions more and actually induce a setback. AND, every time HAMAS or the Palestinian terrorist in general, conduct hostile operations, then they cannot even used the provisions of Article 6, Fourth Geneva Convention, to end application of the Convention for one-year after the close of military operations. Every time HAMAS, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (all splinter groups), and the martyr's brigades (eg al-Aqsa and al-Qassam) opens up hostilities, the the clock is reset. There has no been a continuous year of non-violence since the time the Arab-Palestinians first pledged there would be no peace, when the Khartoum Resolution reaffirmed it, and as Khaled Meshaal repeated in the last several years.

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

(COMMENT)

There is no reason to believe that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will adopt a non-violent posture upon lifting the Naval Blockade. The Palestinians will simply exploit the Mediterranean gateway to smuggle more weapons.

* Example:

On 5 March, the Israeli Navy intercepted a ship containing dozens of long-range rockets being smuggled from Iran to the Gaza Strip.​

Anything which helped those people would be welcomed.However it would need to be accompanied by the Israelis stopping their random slaughter.

(COMMENT)

There is no "random slaughter" on the part of the Israelis. Israel has been under intense scrutiny by the UN Membership, select UN Activities and NGOs, since the turn of the century. And each time Israel has taken action against the Palestinians, there were numerous Hostile Arab Palestinian attacks that preceded the Israeli Response.

Security Council Resolution 2220 (2015) EXCERPTS:
• Page 1/9
Noting that this resolution focuses on the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, including in respect of Council-mandated arms embargoes,

Gravely concerned that the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons in many regions of the world continue to pose threats to international peace and security, cause significant loss of life, contribute to instability and insecurity and continue to undermine the effectiveness of the Security Council in discharging its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security,

Page 4/9
Expressing its determination to implement existing and to take further practical steps to prevent the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, including in support of other ongoing processes,

1. Welcomes efforts made by Member States, regional and subregional organizations in addressing the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, and encourages the establishment or strengthening, where appropriate, of subregional and regional cooperation, coordination and information sharing mechanisms, in particular, transborder customs cooperation and networks for information-sharing, with a view to preventing, combating, and eradicating illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons;

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

10. Recognizes the need for Member States to put in place, where they do not exist, adequate laws, regulations and administrative procedures to exercise effective control over the production of small arms and light weapons within their areas of jurisdiction and over the export, import, transit or retransfer of such we apons, in order to prevent illegal manufacture of and illicit trafficking in small arms and light weapons, or their diversion to unauthorized recipients;​

SOURCE: S/RES/2220 (2015)

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.

"HAMAS and Jordanian Brotherhood Smuggle Weapons into Palestinian Territories" EXCERPTS
IPT News Service 2 December 2014

The Israeli Navy has foiled numerous attempts to smuggle weapons to Hamas off the coast of Gaza since the end of last summer's war.
"There have been a number of smuggling attempts in recent months that we have thwarted. We are monitoring the area day and night; thwarting smuggling is one of central missions," a senior Israeli navy source told the Jerusalem Post.
Meanwhile, members of Jordan's Muslim Brotherhood reportedly tried to create a secret military organization planning terrorist attacks in the West Bank, senior Jordanian sources told Al-Hayat.
Jordanian officials arrested 21 Muslim Brotherhood personnel for smuggling money and weapons into the West Bank. Two of the suspects were charged with getting military training in Gaza.
The Jordanian sources revealed that "these two young men tried to train other Muslim Brotherhood members in order to carry out operations in the occupied West Bank." Salah al-Arouri, a senior Hamas official based in Turkey, also came up in the investigation.
These allegations come after Israeli authorities thwarted a large-scale transnational Hamas network planning to attack Israelis in Jerusalem, the West Bank and overseas. Hamas' new headquarters in Turkey reportedly oversees the terrorist organization's West Bank operations.
SOURCE: Investigative Project on Terrorism

(SIDEBAR)

There is no question that the Palestinians have mounted a superior campaign for hearts and minds on social media. This propaganda program has multiple purposes and multiple fronts, but its most immediate effect was to open an extremely exploitable exposé on three fronts:

• The disparity between civilian deaths; as if the casualties on each side must be equal. Do not make association relative to Customary Law Rules 23 and 24.

• To make an association between Israeli Security Barriers and "apartheid" and playing the "race card" at every opportunity. This disguises three factors:

∆ The actual mean in ICC Code of the Crime of "Apartheid."
∆ The fact that Israel has more racially diverse population than the Palestinians.
∆ That there are people trying to break-in to Israel from Africa. The number of immigrants that arrived illegally was estimated to be 26,635 in 2010, and over 55,000 during the period 2010 to 2012. The Palestinians do not have an illegal immigration problem. It is the Hashemite Kingdom that has a control problem with Palestinians illegally crossing into Jordan. ​

There is no reason to suggest that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will cease operations against Israel, when that is blockade is simply one of their goals. Just as the old Palestine National Charter (1968) indicated, and as the HAMAS Policy (2012) describes today, Israel is not a country by a province of Palestine.

Some of what we will put forth would fall under the category of fundamentals and principles, and some under policies and positions. These are summed up as follows: (2 of 19 Points)

1. Palestine, from its river to its sea, from its north to its south, is the land of the Palestinians; their homeland, and their legitimate right. We will not relinquish an inch or any part of it -for any reason or under any circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine, in its entirety, is an Arab and Islamic land. It has Islamic and Arab affiliations and is considered a blessed and sacred land. Moreover, it has a special place in the heart of every Arab and Muslim, as well as standing and respect in all religions.
​

Or we can to the beginning:

In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:

(a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
(b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
(c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
(d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
(e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
(f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
​

As long as there is a State of Israel WHERE the Jewish People can construct a safe haven, free from the political expedient expulsions; --- a land where they can preserve and protect their culture from the excesses of outside leaders acting under the color of law; there will be an opposition. In 1891 it was the Czar, 1933 it was the NAZI supported by England and the US, and today it is the Arab, supported by the UN.

Most Respectfully,
R

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.​

So?

So smuggling small arms and light weapons is frowned upon by the UN, but selling wide area munitions and their delivery systems to repressive regimes that use them to slaughter hundreds, if not thousands, of people is clearly fine.

Yes, sock of Monte, selling weapons to terrorists is frowned upon by the UN.

Where does the UN say that Palestinians are terrorists?

Link?

 

[Daniyel]

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

We(Israelis ) cannot afford such gullibility. You cannot satisfy the bullies by obliging to their violence, Hamas is occasionally state that Israel only understand violence and there would NEVER be any sort of negotiations.
Don't fool yourself, we been there already.

 

[Shusha]

Lets also not forget to discuss WHY the blockade was implemented in the first place. It was implemented because Hamas had a policy that there be no Jewish State (no Israel) and that ALL of the land from sea to river was to be under Arab Muslim rule and that Hamas would use violence against innocents to achieve that goal.

Is anyone really convinced that Hamas, or the Palestinians of Gaza, generally, are now opposed to that ideology? I have seen no evidence to suggest that the fundamental ideology has changed.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, OK --- Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) are a problem. The most important purpose of the UN is trying to insure the peace and avoid conflict. In diplomatic terms we say "the maintenance of international peace and security. In this case --- the maintenance effort is to prevent or retard the destabilization or

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.​

​

So?

(COMMENT)

The traffic path for illegal and illicit SALWs, include the trails from Iran through Syria - Lebanon, as well as - with patterns from other third-countries, including the Revolutionary Guard, through African trails into the Gaza Strip.

There are many that believe the incident over the May 2010 Freedom Flotilla was a trap to lure the Israelis in to create an international incident. The mission being to attempt a deliberate provocation such that the Israelis would be susceptible to harsh criticism from the International Community that would trigger an ICC or ICJ action. Such action would have the effect of pressuring the Israelis to drop the Naval Blockade and opening a doorway for Palestinian Havoc Operations, Assault on Gas and Oil Platforms, and an ability to Capture and ransom valuable targets.

The blockade affords the Israelis the ability to limit the vulnerability to infiltrate larger weapons, and threaten sensitive platforms.

Being determined to continue to take practical steps to prevent the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, including in support of other ongoing efforts and processes, 1. Welcomes efforts made by Member States, regional and subregional organizations in addressing the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, and encourages the establishment or strengthening, where appropriate, of subregional and regional cooperation, coordination and information sharing mechanisms, in particular, transborder customs cooperation and networks for information-sharing, with a view to preventing, combating, and eradicating illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons;

SOURCE: Resolution 2117 (2013)

It is what it is.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Roudy]

Humanity, Tommy Tainant, et al,

Whatever else you might think of Israel, they did not become the most successful country in the immediate region through stupidity. You may not agree with the strategies they adopted, the paths they have taken, or the choices they have made; but in the overall ∑ total of all things considered --- not bad.

Don't think for a minute that they have not conducted a risk assessment on the probable outcomes to the question of lifting the blockade. The facts on the ground have changed and seemed constantly moving; so the "Risk Assessment" is constantly up-dated.

And there is the political angle to consider. If Israel were to relax or lift the Naval Blockade today, that would be propagandized as both a military and political victory for HAMAS and essentially vindicating the violence employed and the strategies used to break the (so-called) siege. Each time HAMAS attempts to exploit the actions of Israel, relative to the conditions in which they find themselves, the aggravate the conditions more and actually induce a setback. AND, every time HAMAS or the Palestinian terrorist in general, conduct hostile operations, then they cannot even used the provisions of Article 6, Fourth Geneva Convention, to end application of the Convention for one-year after the close of military operations. Every time HAMAS, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (all splinter groups), and the martyr's brigades (eg al-Aqsa and al-Qassam) opens up hostilities, the the clock is reset. There has no been a continuous year of non-violence since the time the Arab-Palestinians first pledged there would be no peace, when the Khartoum Resolution reaffirmed it, and as Khaled Meshaal repeated in the last several years.

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

(COMMENT)

There is no reason to believe that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will adopt a non-violent posture upon lifting the Naval Blockade. The Palestinians will simply exploit the Mediterranean gateway to smuggle more weapons.

* Example:

On 5 March, the Israeli Navy intercepted a ship containing dozens of long-range rockets being smuggled from Iran to the Gaza Strip.​

Anything which helped those people would be welcomed.However it would need to be accompanied by the Israelis stopping their random slaughter.

(COMMENT)

There is no "random slaughter" on the part of the Israelis. Israel has been under intense scrutiny by the UN Membership, select UN Activities and NGOs, since the turn of the century. And each time Israel has taken action against the Palestinians, there were numerous Hostile Arab Palestinian attacks that preceded the Israeli Response.

Security Council Resolution 2220 (2015) EXCERPTS:
• Page 1/9
Noting that this resolution focuses on the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, including in respect of Council-mandated arms embargoes,

Gravely concerned that the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons in many regions of the world continue to pose threats to international peace and security, cause significant loss of life, contribute to instability and insecurity and continue to undermine the effectiveness of the Security Council in discharging its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security,

Page 4/9
Expressing its determination to implement existing and to take further practical steps to prevent the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, including in support of other ongoing processes,

1. Welcomes efforts made by Member States, regional and subregional organizations in addressing the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, and encourages the establishment or strengthening, where appropriate, of subregional and regional cooperation, coordination and information sharing mechanisms, in particular, transborder customs cooperation and networks for information-sharing, with a view to preventing, combating, and eradicating illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons;

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

10. Recognizes the need for Member States to put in place, where they do not exist, adequate laws, regulations and administrative procedures to exercise effective control over the production of small arms and light weapons within their areas of jurisdiction and over the export, import, transit or retransfer of such we apons, in order to prevent illegal manufacture of and illicit trafficking in small arms and light weapons, or their diversion to unauthorized recipients;​

SOURCE: S/RES/2220 (2015)

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.

"HAMAS and Jordanian Brotherhood Smuggle Weapons into Palestinian Territories" EXCERPTS
IPT News Service 2 December 2014

The Israeli Navy has foiled numerous attempts to smuggle weapons to Hamas off the coast of Gaza since the end of last summer's war.
"There have been a number of smuggling attempts in recent months that we have thwarted. We are monitoring the area day and night; thwarting smuggling is one of central missions," a senior Israeli navy source told the Jerusalem Post.
Meanwhile, members of Jordan's Muslim Brotherhood reportedly tried to create a secret military organization planning terrorist attacks in the West Bank, senior Jordanian sources told Al-Hayat.
Jordanian officials arrested 21 Muslim Brotherhood personnel for smuggling money and weapons into the West Bank. Two of the suspects were charged with getting military training in Gaza.
The Jordanian sources revealed that "these two young men tried to train other Muslim Brotherhood members in order to carry out operations in the occupied West Bank." Salah al-Arouri, a senior Hamas official based in Turkey, also came up in the investigation.
These allegations come after Israeli authorities thwarted a large-scale transnational Hamas network planning to attack Israelis in Jerusalem, the West Bank and overseas. Hamas' new headquarters in Turkey reportedly oversees the terrorist organization's West Bank operations.
SOURCE: Investigative Project on Terrorism

(SIDEBAR)

There is no question that the Palestinians have mounted a superior campaign for hearts and minds on social media. This propaganda program has multiple purposes and multiple fronts, but its most immediate effect was to open an extremely exploitable exposé on three fronts:

• The disparity between civilian deaths; as if the casualties on each side must be equal. Do not make association relative to Customary Law Rules 23 and 24.

• To make an association between Israeli Security Barriers and "apartheid" and playing the "race card" at every opportunity. This disguises three factors:

∆ The actual mean in ICC Code of the Crime of "Apartheid."
∆ The fact that Israel has more racially diverse population than the Palestinians.
∆ That there are people trying to break-in to Israel from Africa. The number of immigrants that arrived illegally was estimated to be 26,635 in 2010, and over 55,000 during the period 2010 to 2012. The Palestinians do not have an illegal immigration problem. It is the Hashemite Kingdom that has a control problem with Palestinians illegally crossing into Jordan. ​

There is no reason to suggest that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will cease operations against Israel, when that is blockade is simply one of their goals. Just as the old Palestine National Charter (1968) indicated, and as the HAMAS Policy (2012) describes today, Israel is not a country by a province of Palestine.

Some of what we will put forth would fall under the category of fundamentals and principles, and some under policies and positions. These are summed up as follows: (2 of 19 Points)

1. Palestine, from its river to its sea, from its north to its south, is the land of the Palestinians; their homeland, and their legitimate right. We will not relinquish an inch or any part of it -for any reason or under any circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine, in its entirety, is an Arab and Islamic land. It has Islamic and Arab affiliations and is considered a blessed and sacred land. Moreover, it has a special place in the heart of every Arab and Muslim, as well as standing and respect in all religions.
​

Or we can to the beginning:

In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:

(a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
(b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
(c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
(d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
(e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
(f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
​

As long as there is a State of Israel WHERE the Jewish People can construct a safe haven, free from the political expedient expulsions; --- a land where they can preserve and protect their culture from the excesses of outside leaders acting under the color of law; there will be an opposition. In 1891 it was the Czar, 1933 it was the NAZI supported by England and the US, and today it is the Arab, supported by the UN.

Most Respectfully,
R

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.​

So?

So smuggling small arms and light weapons is frowned upon by the UN, but selling wide area munitions and their delivery systems to repressive regimes that use them to slaughter hundreds, if not thousands, of people is clearly fine.

Yes, sock of Monte, selling weapons to terrorists is frowned upon by the UN.

Where does the UN say that Palestinians are terrorists?

Link?

The govt. of Gaza is considered a terrorist organization in this country and Europe.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

The Israeli illegal occupation needs to end. The poor Palestinians are living in a prison but so are the Israeli people.

Israel/Palestine

Israel doesnt look like the victim in this report.

 

[Roudy]

Israel isn't the victim because it knows how to defend itself and deal with Islamic Nazis. There is no "illegal occupation" or ANYTHING as far as Gaza is concerned.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Israel isn't the victim because it knows how to defend itself and deal with Islamic Nazis. There is no "illegal occupation" or ANYTHING as far as Gaza is concerned.

Paragraph 1
Israel continued in 2015 to enforce severe and discriminatory restrictions on Palestinians’ human rights, and to build unlawful settlements in and facilitate the transfer of Israeli civilians to the occupied West Bank. Israeli authorities also arbitrarily detained peaceful Palestinian demonstrators, including children.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Humanity, Tommy Tainant, et al,

Whatever else you might think of Israel, they did not become the most successful country in the immediate region through stupidity. You may not agree with the strategies they adopted, the paths they have taken, or the choices they have made; but in the overall ∑ total of all things considered --- not bad.

Don't think for a minute that they have not conducted a risk assessment on the probable outcomes to the question of lifting the blockade. The facts on the ground have changed and seemed constantly moving; so the "Risk Assessment" is constantly up-dated.

And there is the political angle to consider. If Israel were to relax or lift the Naval Blockade today, that would be propagandized as both a military and political victory for HAMAS and essentially vindicating the violence employed and the strategies used to break the (so-called) siege. Each time HAMAS attempts to exploit the actions of Israel, relative to the conditions in which they find themselves, the aggravate the conditions more and actually induce a setback. AND, every time HAMAS or the Palestinian terrorist in general, conduct hostile operations, then they cannot even used the provisions of Article 6, Fourth Geneva Convention, to end application of the Convention for one-year after the close of military operations. Every time HAMAS, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (all splinter groups), and the martyr's brigades (eg al-Aqsa and al-Qassam) opens up hostilities, the the clock is reset. There has no been a continuous year of non-violence since the time the Arab-Palestinians first pledged there would be no peace, when the Khartoum Resolution reaffirmed it, and as Khaled Meshaal repeated in the last several years.

(COMMENT)

There is no reason to believe that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will adopt a non-violent posture upon lifting the Naval Blockade. The Palestinians will simply exploit the Mediterranean gateway to smuggle more weapons.

* Example:

On 5 March, the Israeli Navy intercepted a ship containing dozens of long-range rockets being smuggled from Iran to the Gaza Strip.​

(COMMENT)

There is no "random slaughter" on the part of the Israelis. Israel has been under intense scrutiny by the UN Membership, select UN Activities and NGOs, since the turn of the century. And each time Israel has taken action against the Palestinians, there were numerous Hostile Arab Palestinian attacks that preceded the Israeli Response.

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.

(SIDEBAR)

There is no question that the Palestinians have mounted a superior campaign for hearts and minds on social media. This propaganda program has multiple purposes and multiple fronts, but its most immediate effect was to open an extremely exploitable exposé on three fronts:

• The disparity between civilian deaths; as if the casualties on each side must be equal. Do not make association relative to Customary Law Rules 23 and 24.

• To make an association between Israeli Security Barriers and "apartheid" and playing the "race card" at every opportunity. This disguises three factors:

∆ The actual mean in ICC Code of the Crime of "Apartheid."
∆ The fact that Israel has more racially diverse population than the Palestinians.
∆ That there are people trying to break-in to Israel from Africa. The number of immigrants that arrived illegally was estimated to be 26,635 in 2010, and over 55,000 during the period 2010 to 2012. The Palestinians do not have an illegal immigration problem. It is the Hashemite Kingdom that has a control problem with Palestinians illegally crossing into Jordan. ​

There is no reason to suggest that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will cease operations against Israel, when that is blockade is simply one of their goals. Just as the old Palestine National Charter (1968) indicated, and as the HAMAS Policy (2012) describes today, Israel is not a country by a province of Palestine.

Some of what we will put forth would fall under the category of fundamentals and principles, and some under policies and positions. These are summed up as follows: (2 of 19 Points)

1. Palestine, from its river to its sea, from its north to its south, is the land of the Palestinians; their homeland, and their legitimate right. We will not relinquish an inch or any part of it -for any reason or under any circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine, in its entirety, is an Arab and Islamic land. It has Islamic and Arab affiliations and is considered a blessed and sacred land. Moreover, it has a special place in the heart of every Arab and Muslim, as well as standing and respect in all religions.
​

Or we can to the beginning:

In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:

(a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
(b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
(c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
(d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
(e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
(f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
​

As long as there is a State of Israel WHERE the Jewish People can construct a safe haven, free from the political expedient expulsions; --- a land where they can preserve and protect their culture from the excesses of outside leaders acting under the color of law; there will be an opposition. In 1891 it was the Czar, 1933 it was the NAZI supported by England and the US, and today it is the Arab, supported by the UN.

Most Respectfully,
R

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.​

So?

So smuggling small arms and light weapons is frowned upon by the UN, but selling wide area munitions and their delivery systems to repressive regimes that use them to slaughter hundreds, if not thousands, of people is clearly fine.

Yes, sock of Monte, selling weapons to terrorists is frowned upon by the UN.

Where does the UN say that Palestinians are terrorists?

Link?

The govt. of Gaza is considered a terrorist organization in this country and Europe.

Deflection.

 

[Boston1]

I don't see anything within the Mandate for palestine or the Jordan resolution that says Israel doesn't have a right to EVERYTHING west of the Jordan river.

 

[Humanity]

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

Right after Israel handed the keys to a Jew free Gaza, the Palestinians elected Hamas, a terrorist organization who then started shooting rockets and suicide bombing Israelis, as a way to thank them for giving them their so called land back. So anybody who thinks that lifting the blockade would cause Hamas to stop shooting rockets is probably on hallucinatory drugs. Hamas animals only understand one language. Their ultimate stated goal is the total destruction of Israel, therefore no negotiation.

I love the way the 'peaceful pro Israelis' are able to have an open mind...

Rather than your racism, your Islamophobic hatred, why not come up with a peaceful solution?

Shit, I'm responding to Roodboy... That ain't ever gonna happen...

However, let me offer a little clause for this 'lifting of the blockade'....

How about, as a condition of lifting the blockade, part of the agreement is that there is a free and open election in Gaza...???

 

[Humanity]

Right after Israel handed the keys to a Jew free Gaza

And of course not ALL the keys were handed over were they!

 

[Humanity]

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

We(Israelis ) cannot afford such gullibility. You cannot satisfy the bullies by obliging to their violence, Hamas is occasionally state that Israel only understand violence and there would NEVER be any sort of negotiations.
Don't fool yourself, we been there already.

Don't be so naive Daniyel....

The bully is the one who hands back SOME of the keys (taken from a previous post) but makes sure that there are plenty of open doors to keep bullying!

Why is it so difficult for Israelis to even consider a peaceful solution?

Ah yes, bullies don't have the intelligence to think about anything other than bullying...

 

[Humanity]

It was implemented because Hamas had a policy that there be no Jewish State

And how was Hamas going to achieve that against the strongest military force in the ME without an army, air force, navy?

 

[Boston1]

I'll give you a few more chances to lose the flag and then its game on again.

Lets see if you can grow up enough to respect the moderators

In the mean time maybe you can point out exactly where it says that areas west of the Jordan are unavailable for a national Jewish homeland

I posted in a new thread but just in case you missed it ;--)

Quote


Trans-Jordan Memorandum, 16 September 1922[edit]

Geneva,

September 23rd, 1922.

ARTICLE 25 OF THE PALESTINE MANDATE. Territory known as Trans-Jordan.

Note by the Secretary-General.

The Secretary-General has the honour to communicate for the information of the Members of the League, a memorandum relating to Article 25 of the Palestine Mandate presented by the British Government to the Council of the League on September 16th, 1922.

The memorandum was approved by the Council subject to the decision taken at its meeting in London on July 24th, 1922, with regard to the coming into force of the Palestine and Syrian mandates.

Memorandum by the British Representative.

1. Article 25 of the Mandate for Palestine provides as follows :— " In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this Mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18."

2. In pursuance of the provisions of this Article, His Majesty's Government invite the Council to pass the following resolution : — "The following provisions of the Mandate for Palestine are not applicable to the territory known as Trans-Jordan, which comprises all territory lying to the east of a line drawn from a point two miles west of the town of Akaba on the Gulf of that name up the centre of the Wady Araba, Dead Sea and River Jordan to its junction with the River Yarmuk; thence up the centre of that river to the Syrian Frontier."

Preamble. — Recitals 2 and 3.

Article 2. — The words "placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and".

Article 4.

Article 6.

Article 7. — The sentence " There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine."

Article 11. — The second sentence of the first paragraph and the second paragraph.

Article 13.

Article 14.

Article 22.

Article 23.

In the application of the Mandate to Trans-Jordan, the action which, in Palestine, is taken by the Administration of the latter country, will be taken by the Administration of Trans-Jordan under the general supervision of the Mandatory.

3. His Majesty's Government accept full responsibility as Mandatory for Trans-Jordan, and undertake that such provision as may be made for the administration of that territory in accordance with Article 25 of the Mandate shall be in no way inconsistent with those provisions of the Mandate which are not by this resolution declared inapplicable.

End Quote

The only exclusion made against the formation of a national Jewish homeland is from the center of the Jordan EAST.

There's no other restrictions

All the UN efforts were rejected by the Arabs themselves and would have been only suggestions anyway unless passed by the security council.

So where am I misreading this if there is any validity to the Arab Muslim claims to anything West of the Jordan ? or anything supporting the claim that Israel is "occupying" "their" land. Clearly its not "their" land