Do you think that if the blockade to Gaza was lifted today that the attacks against Israel would cea

[Humanity]

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

 

[Lipush]

Of course, they'll stop firing rockets.

They won't need them, as soon as their men will have free access to Israel. Why do you need rockets when you can arm your guys with explosive belts instead. much more useful.

 

[Humanity]

Of course, they'll stop firing rockets.

They won't need them, as soon as their men will have free access to Israel. Why do you need rockets when you can arm your guys with explosive belts instead. much more useful.

Who said anything about lifting border controls?

There's a big difference between allowing fishermen to go about their day to day life without fear of being fired at and having 'open borders'!

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Anything which helped those people would be welcomed.However it would need to be accompanied by the Israelis stopping their random slaughter.

 

[Challenger]

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

Hamas will, certainly. Their main objective is to get the siege lifted so they can start rebuilding Gaza in earnest, getting a port and airport functioning, etc. The same can't be said for the more extreme groups in Gaza, or for that matter Mossad operatives, both of which would prefer the status quo in place. The ocassional rocket landing in the desert has always been used by the Zionists to "reimpose a blockade" so your idea wouldn't necessarily work, regardless of who fired what, where.

 

[Lipush]

Of course, they'll stop firing rockets.

They won't need them, as soon as their men will have free access to Israel. Why do you need rockets when you can arm your guys with explosive belts instead. much more useful.

Who said anything about lifting border controls?

There's a big difference between allowing fishermen to go about their day to day life without fear of being fired at and having 'open borders'!

Except, no, there really isn't.

 

[Lipush]

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

Hamas will, certainly. Their main objective is to get the siege lifted so they can start rebuilding Gaza in earnest, getting a port and airport functioning, etc. The same can't be said for the more extreme groups in Gaza, or for that matter Mossad operatives, both of which would prefer the status quo in place. The ocassional rocket landing in the desert has always been used by the Zionists to "reimpose a blockade" so your idea wouldn't necessarily work, regardless of who fired what, where.

The saddest part is that you really believe that Hamas' goal is improving Gaza.

Hamas' goal is to destroy Israel. Period

 

[Lipush]

Anything which helped those people would be welcomed.

Anything that will help Israelis to stop dying will be welcome.

The Gazans can drink Gaza water.

 

[Boston1]

LOL

I can just picture the pali's debating their response. Not quite sure who to slap or shoot first.

Asking Israel to drop its guard is ludicrous. Its a perfect example of putting the cart before the horse.

The only effective solution will be when Israel takes the bull by the horns and does two things in unison.

1) Throw the UNWRA out of the country and invite the ICRC in with the agreement that they only hire out from a neutral third country to be agreed on. Say Canadians or Chinese, whatever but enough of the Arab Muslim terrorists running aid and arms for the Arab Muslim terrorists

2) Follow the Geneva conventions for the treatment of POWs and civilians.

This isn't actually all that hard once you get rid of the Arab Muslim terrorist run UNWRA.

Cordon off and completely embargo all Arab communities within Israel and set up ICRC aid stations in adjacent heavily militarized determination stations which are designed to assign temporary legal status to those wishing to sign up to receive aid.

Those deemed combatants, having aided combatants or those suspected of engaging in hostile acts against the state exactly as specified under the conventions should be immediately arrested and detained as POWs ready for repatriation to a neutral third country.

Throw the bums out.

Those deemed eligible for aid or civilians "may" be returned to their places of residence at the earliest practicable time. which means they go to an internment camp where aid is distributed within the camp until they can be returned to whatever camp they came from originally.

Israel could solve this problem one camp at a time any time they want. Its just a matter of time.

Repeat as necessary

Problem solved.

It would cost Israel two POW camps one for woman and one for men exactly as specified within the conventions and one internment camp for families although I suppose they could use palestinian taxes to pay for the whole thing. Sweep the palestinian enclaves one at a time.

 

[Phoenall]

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

If it was that easy then why are you still demonising Israel for their actions. The blockade was lifted as agreed in stages and hamas kept on firing the rockets at Israel, so why wont you accept this fact, and keep on attacking Israel for defending against the illegal weapons. This has happened not once but at least 3 times now.



Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


June 2009 easing of blockade
In June 2009, the blockade was eased to allow processed hummus, but not hummus with extras such as pine nuts or mushrooms.

June 2010 easing of the blockade

Facing mounting international calls to ease or lift their blockade in response to the Gaza flotilla raid, Egypt and Israel lessened the restrictions starting in June 2010. Israel announced that it will allow all strictly civilian goods into Gaza while preventing weapons and what it designates as "dual-use" items from entering Gaza.[36] Egypt partly opened the Rafah border crossing from Egypt to Gaza, primarily for people, but not for supplies, to go through


New blockade policy by Israel

On 20 June 2010, Israel's Security Cabinet approved a new system governing the blockade that would allow practically all non-military or dual-use items to enter the Gaza strip


Further easing (2011-2013)

In 2013 Israel has eased its regulation on the entering of construction material into Gaza. The regulation was an attempt to reduce rocket fire in the south


So why haven't the rockets stopped and the violence been halted when Israel has shown they are prepared to reduce the blockade and come to a peaceful solution.

 

[Phoenall]

Of course, they'll stop firing rockets.

They won't need them, as soon as their men will have free access to Israel. Why do you need rockets when you can arm your guys with explosive belts instead. much more useful.

Who said anything about lifting border controls?

There's a big difference between allowing fishermen to go about their day to day life without fear of being fired at and having 'open borders'!

And what real evidence do you have that " fishermen " are being fired at, other than islamonazi propaganda video's that show absolutely nothing. No evidence that they were Palestinian boats, no evidence they were in Palestinian coastal waters and most telling of all no evidence of any fishing gear on these boats. As I keep pointing out you don't fish for sardines and pilchards with cargo nets, you fish for smuggled goods. Now any comment on the many times the blockade has been partly lifted and the violence has just kept on happening.

 

[Phoenall]

Anything which helped those people would be welcomed.However it would need to be accompanied by the Israelis stopping their random slaughter.

What random slaughter would these be then, how about evidence that proves this is the case. And not some half baked tale of islamonazi construction that leaves out the Palestinian violence that escalates into responses by Israel

 

[Phoenall]

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

Hamas will, certainly. Their main objective is to get the siege lifted so they can start rebuilding Gaza in earnest, getting a port and airport functioning, etc. The same can't be said for the more extreme groups in Gaza, or for that matter Mossad operatives, both of which would prefer the status quo in place. The ocassional rocket landing in the desert has always been used by the Zionists to "reimpose a blockade" so your idea wouldn't necessarily work, regardless of who fired what, where.

What siege is that then, any official comments that says gaza is under siege ? Then prove that the Palestinians want what you claim and not to be able to import WMD's so they can wipe out the Jews as they are caught on camera saying so many times
When was Tel Aviv a desert then, or Sderot for that matter. Would you find no problem with an illegal rocket landing in your local park say, after all it is just the local "desert "

 

[RoccoR]

Humanity, Tommy Tainant, et al,

Whatever else you might think of Israel, they did not become the most successful country in the immediate region through stupidity. You may not agree with the strategies they adopted, the paths they have taken, or the choices they have made; but in the overall ∑ total of all things considered --- not bad.

Don't think for a minute that they have not conducted a risk assessment on the probable outcomes to the question of lifting the blockade. The facts on the ground have changed and seemed constantly moving; so the "Risk Assessment" is constantly up-dated.

And there is the political angle to consider. If Israel were to relax or lift the Naval Blockade today, that would be propagandized as both a military and political victory for HAMAS and essentially vindicating the violence employed and the strategies used to break the (so-called) siege. Each time HAMAS attempts to exploit the actions of Israel, relative to the conditions in which they find themselves, the aggravate the conditions more and actually induce a setback. AND, every time HAMAS or the Palestinian terrorist in general, conduct hostile operations, then they cannot even used the provisions of Article 6, Fourth Geneva Convention, to end application of the Convention for one-year after the close of military operations. Every time HAMAS, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (all splinter groups), and the martyr's brigades (eg al-Aqsa and al-Qassam) opens up hostilities, the the clock is reset. There has no been a continuous year of non-violence since the time the Arab-Palestinians first pledged there would be no peace, when the Khartoum Resolution reaffirmed it, and as Khaled Meshaal repeated in the last several years.

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

(COMMENT)

There is no reason to believe that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will adopt a non-violent posture upon lifting the Naval Blockade. The Palestinians will simply exploit the Mediterranean gateway to smuggle more weapons.

* Example:

On 5 March, the Israeli Navy intercepted a ship containing dozens of long-range rockets being smuggled from Iran to the Gaza Strip.​

Anything which helped those people would be welcomed.However it would need to be accompanied by the Israelis stopping their random slaughter.

(COMMENT)

There is no "random slaughter" on the part of the Israelis. Israel has been under intense scrutiny by the UN Membership, select UN Activities and NGOs, since the turn of the century. And each time Israel has taken action against the Palestinians, there were numerous Hostile Arab Palestinian attacks that preceded the Israeli Response.

Security Council Resolution 2220 (2015) EXCERPTS:
• Page 1/9
Noting that this resolution focuses on the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, including in respect of Council-mandated arms embargoes,

Gravely concerned that the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons in many regions of the world continue to pose threats to international peace and security, cause significant loss of life, contribute to instability and insecurity and continue to undermine the effectiveness of the Security Council in discharging its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security,

Page 4/9
Expressing its determination to implement existing and to take further practical steps to prevent the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, including in support of other ongoing processes,

1. Welcomes efforts made by Member States, regional and subregional organizations in addressing the illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons, and encourages the establishment or strengthening, where appropriate, of subregional and regional cooperation, coordination and information sharing mechanisms, in particular, transborder customs cooperation and networks for information-sharing, with a view to preventing, combating, and eradicating illicit transfer, destabilizing accumulation and misuse of small arms and light weapons;

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

10. Recognizes the need for Member States to put in place, where they do not exist, adequate laws, regulations and administrative procedures to exercise effective control over the production of small arms and light weapons within their areas of jurisdiction and over the export, import, transit or retransfer of such we apons, in order to prevent illegal manufacture of and illicit trafficking in small arms and light weapons, or their diversion to unauthorized recipients;​

SOURCE: S/RES/2220 (2015)

This tells you that the UN is fully aware, at some level, that the Palestinians are attempting to illicitly import weapons from numerous sources. I encourage you to read the "Small Arms and Light Weapons (SALW) Report S/2015/289 on the issue.

"HAMAS and Jordanian Brotherhood Smuggle Weapons into Palestinian Territories" EXCERPTS
IPT News Service 2 December 2014

The Israeli Navy has foiled numerous attempts to smuggle weapons to Hamas off the coast of Gaza since the end of last summer's war.
"There have been a number of smuggling attempts in recent months that we have thwarted. We are monitoring the area day and night; thwarting smuggling is one of central missions," a senior Israeli navy source told the Jerusalem Post.
Meanwhile, members of Jordan's Muslim Brotherhood reportedly tried to create a secret military organization planning terrorist attacks in the West Bank, senior Jordanian sources told Al-Hayat.
Jordanian officials arrested 21 Muslim Brotherhood personnel for smuggling money and weapons into the West Bank. Two of the suspects were charged with getting military training in Gaza.
The Jordanian sources revealed that "these two young men tried to train other Muslim Brotherhood members in order to carry out operations in the occupied West Bank." Salah al-Arouri, a senior Hamas official based in Turkey, also came up in the investigation.
These allegations come after Israeli authorities thwarted a large-scale transnational Hamas network planning to attack Israelis in Jerusalem, the West Bank and overseas. Hamas' new headquarters in Turkey reportedly oversees the terrorist organization's West Bank operations.
SOURCE: Investigative Project on Terrorism

(SIDEBAR)

There is no question that the Palestinians have mounted a superior campaign for hearts and minds on social media. This propaganda program has multiple purposes and multiple fronts, but its most immediate effect was to open an extremely exploitable exposé on three fronts:

• The disparity between civilian deaths; as if the casualties on each side must be equal. Do not make association relative to Customary Law Rules 23 and 24.

• To make an association between Israeli Security Barriers and "apartheid" and playing the "race card" at every opportunity. This disguises three factors:

∆ The actual mean in ICC Code of the Crime of "Apartheid."
∆ The fact that Israel has more racially diverse population than the Palestinians.
∆ That there are people trying to break-in to Israel from Africa. The number of immigrants that arrived illegally was estimated to be 26,635 in 2010, and over 55,000 during the period 2010 to 2012. The Palestinians do not have an illegal immigration problem. It is the Hashemite Kingdom that has a control problem with Palestinians illegally crossing into Jordan. ​

There is no reason to suggest that the Hostile Arab Palestinians will cease operations against Israel, when that is blockade is simply one of their goals. Just as the old Palestine National Charter (1968) indicated, and as the HAMAS Policy (2012) describes today, Israel is not a country by a province of Palestine.

Some of what we will put forth would fall under the category of fundamentals and principles, and some under policies and positions. These are summed up as follows: (2 of 19 Points)

1. Palestine, from its river to its sea, from its north to its south, is the land of the Palestinians; their homeland, and their legitimate right. We will not relinquish an inch or any part of it -for any reason or under any circumstances and pressures.

2. Palestine, in its entirety, is an Arab and Islamic land. It has Islamic and Arab affiliations and is considered a blessed and sacred land. Moreover, it has a special place in the heart of every Arab and Muslim, as well as standing and respect in all religions.
​

Or we can to the beginning:

In conclusion, the Arab Higher Committee Delegation wishes to stress the following:

​

​

​

(a) The Arabs of Palestine will never recognise the validity of the extorted partition recommendations or the authority of the United Nations to make them.
(b) The Arabs of Palestine consider that any attempt by the Jews or any power group of powers to establish a Jewish state in Arab territory is an act of aggression which will be resisted in self-defense.
(c) It is very unwise and fruitless to ask any commission to proceed to Palestine because not a single Arab will cooperate with the said Commission.
(d) The United Nations or its Commission should not be misled to believe that its efforts in the partition plan will meet with any success. It will be far better for the eclipsed prestige of this organization not to start on this adventure.
(e) The United Nations prestige will be better served by abandoning, not enforcing such an injustice.
(f) The determination of every Arab in Palestine is to oppose in every way the partition of that country.
(g) The Arabs of Palestine made a solemn declaration before the United Nations, before God and history, that they will never submit or yield to any power going to Palestine to enforce partition. The only way to establish partition is first to wipe them out — man, woman and child.
​

As long as there is a State of Israel WHERE the Jewish People can construct a safe haven, free from the political expedient expulsions; --- a land where they can preserve and protect their culture from the excesses of outside leaders acting under the color of law; there will be an opposition. In 1891 it was the Czar, 1933 it was the NAZI supported by England and the US, and today it is the Arab, supported by the UN.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

At every stage of this conflict the body count tells the story.

Since October 155 Palestinians have died compared to 28 Israelis.

It is clear which party is the aggressor.

I doubt that low education bigots would understand this. You just want to kill muslims.

So why have you started in the last 1% of the conflict ? You do realise that the conflict started back in 635 C.E. when mo'mad ordered the genocide of the worlds Jews and started by wiping them out in the Jewish city of Medina.


Body counts prove nothing, if they did them islam would have been destroyed in 1947 shortly after they massacred 50 million innocents in India.

Yes it is look to who starts the violence and instigates the deaths. Look to who uses civilian areas to fire illegal weapons at Israel and then whine a whinge when they are pounded by return fired

I know that brain dead left wing morons cant understand simple concepts like these and think that responding to Islamic violence and terrorism should be made a war crime. You are the bigot and Jew hater who wants to see the final solution reinstalled and the Jews wiped out because you cant control them.

 

[Lipush]

At every stage of this conflict the body count tells the story.

Since October 155 Palestinians have died compared to 28 Israelis.

It is clear which party is the aggressor.

I doubt that low education bigots would understand this. You just want to kill muslims.

At every stage of this conflict you looked at body counts and not at actual counts. Body counts are the most simple deception of this conflict.

One culture glorifies death, seeks it, invests in attacking instead of defending, sending it's women, children, babies, to die.

The other constantly invests in defending it's soldiers and civilians, inventing and inspiring worldwide when it comes to self defence.

When Israel cherishes life and Palestine cherishes death, you should look at anything BUT body counts.

Let them say it themselves

 

[Phoenall]

At every stage of this conflict the body count tells the story.

Since October 155 Palestinians have died compared to 28 Israelis.

It is clear which party is the aggressor.

I doubt that low education bigots would understand this. You just want to kill muslims.

Nonsense, the objective of war is not to die in equal numbers.

The Japanese attacked US forces on Hawaii, by the end of the war US forces had killed vastly more Japanese than the Japanese had killed US forces. But your logic would have us believe that the US was the aggressor

If 100 palestinians try and bum rush Israeli's and 100 palestinians die vs only 20 or so Israeli's you'd prefer to pretend the palestinians didn't bum rush the Israeli's

Yours is a classic example of both false equivalency and revisionist thinking.

Not only should the blockade remain in place, but all aid should be removed from the auspices of the UNWRA ( an organization virtually 100% staffed and run by Arab Muslims who often enough are also members of the various Arab Muslim terrorist groups ) And placed either under Israeli military control or that of the ICRC.

The solution is to isolate the terrorists from the civilians and whatever legitimate refugees there might be and apply the Geneva conventions.

Rinse and repeat

Throw the bums out

I think you just proved my point.

And you have just proven that you are an idiot that cant see the reality. The Palestinians attack and get soundly beat, they have a no surrender policy so they die to a man. Now who is to blame for those deaths and why ? No doubt you advocate that terminally sick people should be left to infect the rest of humanity and not segregated and treated .

 

[Lipush]

At every stage of this conflict the body count tells the story.

Since October 155 Palestinians have died compared to 28 Israelis.

It is clear which party is the aggressor.

BTW, *gasp*, do you really just counted Palestinians who STABBED Israelis as VICTIMS?

The comparison should be, since October, 30 innocent Israelis were killed in comparison to 155 armed Palestinian killers!

But, I doubt you could understand this. Facts isn't seem to be your strong suit.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

At every stage of this conflict the body count tells the story.

Since October 155 Palestinians have died compared to 28 Israelis.

It is clear which party is the aggressor.

I doubt that low education bigots would understand this. You just want to kill muslims.

Nonsense, the objective of war is not to die in equal numbers.

The Japanese attacked US forces on Hawaii, by the end of the war US forces had killed vastly more Japanese than the Japanese had killed US forces. But your logic would have us believe that the US was the aggressor

If 100 palestinians try and bum rush Israeli's and 100 palestinians die vs only 20 or so Israeli's you'd prefer to pretend the palestinians didn't bum rush the Israeli's

Yours is a classic example of both false equivalency and revisionist thinking.

Not only should the blockade remain in place, but all aid should be removed from the auspices of the UNWRA ( an organization virtually 100% staffed and run by Arab Muslims who often enough are also members of the various Arab Muslim terrorist groups ) And placed either under Israeli military control or that of the ICRC.

The solution is to isolate the terrorists from the civilians and whatever legitimate refugees there might be and apply the Geneva conventions.

Rinse and repeat

Throw the bums out

I think you just proved my point.

And you have just proven that you are an idiot that cant see the reality. The Palestinians attack and get soundly beat, they have a no surrender policy so they die to a man. Now who is to blame for those deaths and why ? No doubt you advocate that terminally sick people should be left to infect the rest of humanity and not segregated and treated .

The majority of deaths are civilians.
Gaza crisis: Toll of operations in Gaza - BBC News

 

[Challenger]

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

Hamas will, certainly. Their main objective is to get the siege lifted so they can start rebuilding Gaza in earnest, getting a port and airport functioning, etc. The same can't be said for the more extreme groups in Gaza, or for that matter Mossad operatives, both of which would prefer the status quo in place. The ocassional rocket landing in the desert has always been used by the Zionists to "reimpose a blockade" so your idea wouldn't necessarily work, regardless of who fired what, where.

The saddest part is that you really believe that Hamas' goal is improving Gaza.

Hamas' goal is to destroy Israel. Period

Hamas immediate objective is as I have stated above, to get the siege lifted, rebuild the place and get a functioning port and airport working. Hamas' ultimate goal is the dismantling of the Zionist Paradise in favour of a free Palestinian state, that is not in dispute.