Do you think that if the blockade to Gaza was lifted today that the attacks against Israel would cea

[Shusha]

Billo, you would be much more convincing in your arguments if they weren't so disingenuous, bordering on outright lies. If you want to discuss the conflict, even have some of those on the pro-Israeli side be critical of Israel's actions, you have to tone down the rhetoric and begin with the truth.

The Israeli's gave their word in August 2014 that there would be a ceasefire and since then, have attacked Gaza 696 times.

Let's start by being honest about what these numbers mean. There is a security perimeter around Gaza. The security perimeter consists of a fence and a buffer zone on land and a outer limit of either 3 or 6 nautical miles for watercraft. You may not agree with the existence of this security perimeter, but it exists. Entrance into the buffer zone, or past the limit on water is a violation of the ceasefire. The IDF, when faced with these violations, will instruct those violating the buffer zone or limit to turn back. If they refuse, warning shots are fired and if they further refuse they may be shot at, typically with intent to wound and not with lethal force. (That is the plan, in war zones things don't always go according to plan.)

So, no, Israel did not attack Gaza 696 times. What that number is, and the individual incidents can be found online, is the 696 times that Gazans violated the buffer zone or the fishing limit -- violated the ceasefire agreement -- and Israel responded. Very, very few of the incidents resulted in lasting harm, injury or loss of life.

The blockade was in retaliation for the Pals voting for people Israel didn't like.

The blockade was in response to Hamas' statement that they did not intend to honor any previous agreements and the explicit statement that they would attack Israel with as much force and as many weapons as they could lay their hands on. Which they then demonstrated with renewed rocket and mortar fire.

The blockade is the CONSEQUENCE which occurred following both the statement and the actions.

 

[Two Thumbs]

bullshit

yes it was

all in retaliation
they never have

they don't, you know it's a lie

you mean a terror organization? yea, nobody liked them

pals are nothing but a bunch of fucking degenerates that other muslims hate. Hell, their own country wouldn't take them in

No one takes the cake on hate more than a Zionist.

The question in the OP asks "...if the violence would cease?" In reviewing the Zionist posts (like yours above), the answer is a definite, "NO". There's not a single Zionist post stating Israel's role in the problem that exists in the ME today. Not one post offering a solution that would be mutually beneficial.

Instead, we get posts that want to "put the screws" to Palestinian's even more. To increase the pain and suffering for the Pals and all the while trashing them 24/7. Zionist hatred is so prevalent, they even trash people who are "neutral" in this conflict. Anyone who doesn't match their level of hatred, is targeted with off-topic taunts, posts with no relevant content and cross-posting, as seen in:

• Post #42
• Post #45
• Post #56
• Post #97
• Post #103
• Post #107
• Post #115
• Post #118
• Post #158
• Post #159

...of this very thread.

Will the violence cease?

Judging from the very words of Zionist hatred,
the answer is, "HELL NO!"

blithering on and on.

the op asked would the fucking Pals stop killing people.

and I posted, the fact, that israel traded land for peace and didn't get it.

so clearly, blatantly clearly, Pals have no intention to ever quit killing.

saying it's their land is fucking bullshit, everywhere anyone goes, someone was there first. They are long overdue to grow the fuck up and deal with it.

 

[Boston1]

Which is why I advocate for a much tougher stance on the part of Israel.

They should strengthen the blockade.
Throw the UNWRA out
Set up a massive sweep operation
and throw the bums out.

The UN failed to segregate combatants, those who assist combatants and those suspected of assisting or being combatants. The Israeli's would be within their legal rights to declare the war ongoing and implement the Geneva conventions which gives them the right to segregate POWs from civilians or refugees

And throw the bums out.

Rather than let this war linger on endlessly. I think Israel should go at it tooth and nail until either an unconditional surrender is achieved or every non protected person has been repatriated to any neutral third country that will take them or the ICRC OUTSIDE Israel and Gaza.

I think its time the Israeli's get tough and quit trying to play the game.

 

[Shusha]

the op asked would the fucking Pals stop killing people.

Bingo! That's exactly what the OP is asking. What does Israel have to give the Gazans for them to stop trying to murder us?

Here's what I think is the *truth* is: No matter what Israel (read: the Jewish people) give Gaza, it will NEVER be enough. They are extremists and they are being led by extremists. They don't want to live peacefully next to Jews. The only thing you can do with people like that is to try to contain them. And hope they eventually grow out of it.

But it does give me an idea for another thread...

 

[Indeependent]

Billo, you would be much more convincing in your arguments if they weren't so disingenuous, bordering on outright lies. If you want to discuss the conflict, even have some of those on the pro-Israeli side be critical of Israel's actions, you have to tone down the rhetoric and begin with the truth.

The Israeli's gave their word in August 2014 that there would be a ceasefire and since then, have attacked Gaza 696 times.

Let's start by being honest about what these numbers mean. There is a security perimeter around Gaza. The security perimeter consists of a fence and a buffer zone on land and a outer limit of either 3 or 6 nautical miles for watercraft. You may not agree with the existence of this security perimeter, but it exists. Entrance into the buffer zone, or past the limit on water is a violation of the ceasefire. The IDF, when faced with these violations, will instruct those violating the buffer zone or limit to turn back. If they refuse, warning shots are fired and if they further refuse they may be shot at, typically with intent to wound and not with lethal force. (That is the plan, in war zones things don't always go according to plan.)

So, no, Israel did not attack Gaza 696 times. What that number is, and the individual incidents can be found online, is the 696 times that Gazans violated the buffer zone or the fishing limit -- violated the ceasefire agreement -- and Israel responded. Very, very few of the incidents resulted in lasting harm, injury or loss of life.

The blockade was in retaliation for the Pals voting for people Israel didn't like.

The blockade was in response to Hamas' statement that they did not intend to honor any previous agreements and the explicit statement that they would attack Israel with as much force and as many weapons as they could lay their hands on. Which they then demonstrated with renewed rocket and mortar fire.

The blockade is the CONSEQUENCE which occurred following both the statement and the actions.

You seriously haven't put Billo on Ignore?

 

[Shusha]

You seriously haven't put Billo on Ignore?

Nah. He's way too much fun to play with. Though I might get bored one day. Its a little too easy to turn his own links against him.

 

[Boston1]

Billo, you would be much more convincing in your arguments if they weren't so disingenuous, bordering on outright lies. If you want to discuss the conflict, even have some of those on the pro-Israeli side be critical of Israel's actions, you have to tone down the rhetoric and begin with the truth.

The Israeli's gave their word in August 2014 that there would be a ceasefire and since then, have attacked Gaza 696 times.

Let's start by being honest about what these numbers mean. There is a security perimeter around Gaza. The security perimeter consists of a fence and a buffer zone on land and a outer limit of either 3 or 6 nautical miles for watercraft. You may not agree with the existence of this security perimeter, but it exists. Entrance into the buffer zone, or past the limit on water is a violation of the ceasefire. The IDF, when faced with these violations, will instruct those violating the buffer zone or limit to turn back. If they refuse, warning shots are fired and if they further refuse they may be shot at, typically with intent to wound and not with lethal force. (That is the plan, in war zones things don't always go according to plan.)

So, no, Israel did not attack Gaza 696 times. What that number is, and the individual incidents can be found online, is the 696 times that Gazans violated the buffer zone or the fishing limit -- violated the ceasefire agreement -- and Israel responded. Very, very few of the incidents resulted in lasting harm, injury or loss of life.

The blockade was in retaliation for the Pals voting for people Israel didn't like.

The blockade was in response to Hamas' statement that they did not intend to honor any previous agreements and the explicit statement that they would attack Israel with as much force and as many weapons as they could lay their hands on. Which they then demonstrated with renewed rocket and mortar fire.

The blockade is the CONSEQUENCE which occurred following both the statement and the actions.

You seriously haven't put Billo on Ignore?

I reported the SOB. I can't believe he spoke to another member that way. But I'm not going to put him on ignore, simply because he's usually so laughably funny in his misrepresentations and outright lies.

I guess this last episode he's had just goes to show how uncivilized his kinda people really are.

Which is why I strongly support Israel's strengthening the embargo and throwing the UNWRA out. I'd simply make the pali's step out of hiding and into determination centers in order to receive their welfare and food rations and then not allow them back into the war zone. Exactly as the conventions dictate. Either deport them ( if they are determined to be combatants, having assisted combatants or are suspected of aiding or being combatants ) Or segregate them in temporary detention camps.

Once Gaza was empty, I'd bulldoze the place just to make sure. Replace whatever pali's remain in the internment camps. Then I'd place it under just as strong restrictions for some number of years until the remaining pali's had earned their way back into polite society. Rinse and repeat in the disputed territories one terrorist enclave at a time UN camp or not.

I'm pretty sure the operation could be completed in as little as 36 months.

Problem solved

The world can freak for all I care, but its a war the pali's insist on, and war's not pretty.

 

[Indeependent]

Billo, you would be much more convincing in your arguments if they weren't so disingenuous, bordering on outright lies. If you want to discuss the conflict, even have some of those on the pro-Israeli side be critical of Israel's actions, you have to tone down the rhetoric and begin with the truth.

The Israeli's gave their word in August 2014 that there would be a ceasefire and since then, have attacked Gaza 696 times.

Let's start by being honest about what these numbers mean. There is a security perimeter around Gaza. The security perimeter consists of a fence and a buffer zone on land and a outer limit of either 3 or 6 nautical miles for watercraft. You may not agree with the existence of this security perimeter, but it exists. Entrance into the buffer zone, or past the limit on water is a violation of the ceasefire. The IDF, when faced with these violations, will instruct those violating the buffer zone or limit to turn back. If they refuse, warning shots are fired and if they further refuse they may be shot at, typically with intent to wound and not with lethal force. (That is the plan, in war zones things don't always go according to plan.)

So, no, Israel did not attack Gaza 696 times. What that number is, and the individual incidents can be found online, is the 696 times that Gazans violated the buffer zone or the fishing limit -- violated the ceasefire agreement -- and Israel responded. Very, very few of the incidents resulted in lasting harm, injury or loss of life.

The blockade was in retaliation for the Pals voting for people Israel didn't like.

The blockade was in response to Hamas' statement that they did not intend to honor any previous agreements and the explicit statement that they would attack Israel with as much force and as many weapons as they could lay their hands on. Which they then demonstrated with renewed rocket and mortar fire.

The blockade is the CONSEQUENCE which occurred following both the statement and the actions.

You seriously haven't put Billo on Ignore?

I reported the SOB. I can't believe he spoke to another member that way. But I'm not going to put him on ignore, simply because he's usually so laughably funny in his misrepresentations and outright lies.

I guess this last episode he's had just goes to show how uncivilized his kinda people really are.

Which is why I strongly support Israel's strengthening the embargo and throwing the UNWRA out. I'd simply make the pali's step out of hiding and into determination centers in order to receive their welfare and food rations and then not allow them back into the war zone. Exactly as the conventions dictate. Either deport them ( if they are determined to be combatants, having assisted combatants or are suspected of aiding or being combatants ) Or segregate them in temporary detention camps.

Once Gaza was empty, I'd bulldoze the place just to make sure. Then I'd place it under just as strong restrictions for some number of years until the remaining pali's had earned their way back into polite society.

I'm pretty sure the operation could be completed in as little as 36 months.

Problem solved

The world can freak for all I care, but the problem can be solved.

I don't know what he posted and I don't want to know.
Trash is trash.

 

[Shusha]

I don't know what he posted and I don't want to know.
Trash is trash.

Unimaginative misogynistic trash. Ya didn't miss much.

 

[Billo_Really]

Billo, you would be much more convincing in your arguments if they weren't so disingenuous, bordering on outright lies. If you want to discuss the conflict, even have some of those on the pro-Israeli side be critical of Israel's actions, you have to tone down the rhetoric and begin with the truth.

A "lie", is a deliberate attempt to deceive. Posting comments found while doing research on a particular subject, are not lies.

I could care less what the pro-Israeli side does, I'm just making the statement there is nothing Israel can do, no matter how horrific, that would result in outrage among the Israeli right.

Not only am I not going to tone down the rhetoric, I'm going to ramp it up! Truth hurts. Truth stings. And from my perspective, the Israeli right cannot handle the truth. You're like average Germans after WWII, refusing to believe the Holocaust. They could not fathom their government could be involved in something so heinous and they kept believing that until Eisenhower made them bury the dead. You and everyone who thinks like you, are also heading for your own Eisenhower moment. And at that moment, you will see the truth with your very next step.

Let's start by being honest about what these numbers mean. There is a security perimeter around Gaza.

Which is not only illegal, but a crime against humanity.

The security perimeter consists of a fence and a buffer zone on land and a outer limit of either 3 or 6 nautical miles for watercraft. You may not agree with the existence of this security perimeter, but it exists. Entrance into the buffer zone, or past the limit on water is a violation of the ceasefire. The IDF, when faced with these violations, will instruct those violating the buffer zone or limit to turn back. If they refuse, warning shots are fired and if they further refuse they may be shot at, typically with intent to wound and not with lethal force. (That is the plan, in war zones things don't always go according to plan.)

There is nothing wrong with having a fence along Israel's side of the Green Line. There is everything wrong with a wall built on land that isn't Israel's and a buffer zone in an area Israel has no jurisdiction in.

Israel, has absolutely no right restricting Gazan fishing limits. It has no jurisdiction in Gazan territorial waters and it certainly does not have any jurisdiction in international waters. This is not a war zone. And shooting at people while they fish, is just plain evil.

The fact that Israel expects the world to believe fishing is a threat to Israeli security, is quite strange in itself. And the fact that Israel also shoots at Palestinian farmers while they harvest their crops, the intent is there for all to see; Israel is deliberately trying to make Palestinian's daily life such a living hell, that they will go away.

And that's the truth.

So, no, Israel did not attack Gaza 696 times. What that number is, and the individual incidents can be found online, is the 696 times that Gazans violated the buffer zone or the fishing limit -- violated the ceasefire agreement -- and Israel responded. Very, very few of the incidents resulted in lasting harm, injury or loss of life.

Anyone who can't see how wrong it is to shoot at someone fishing, is just sick in the head.

The fact remains, Israel violated the ceasefire 696 times since August 2014, to only 29 rockets. And those rockets were due to the inhuman blockade Israel has imposed.

The blockade was in response to Hamas' statement that they did not intend to honor any previous agreements and the explicit statement that they would attack Israel with as much force and as many weapons as they could lay their hands on. Which they then demonstrated with renewed rocket and mortar fire.

The blockade is the CONSEQUENCE which occurred following both the statement and the actions.

Gazans voted for Hamas, because it was less corrupt than Fatah. Fatah was Israel's bitch. The blockade started because Gazan's wouldn't vote for Israel's bitch.

As far as who said what, after they were elected, Hamas leaders stated...

"...if Israel were to withdraw to the 1967 borders, Hamas would enter into a long-term truce with the state. When asked if he would extend the ceasefire Hamas had been observing since 2005, he answered, “If Israel gives us a quiet period and stops its incursions and the assassinations, then we will be able to convince our people to continue with a state of quiet.” He added that “If Israel declares that it will give the Palestinian people a state and give them back all their rights, then we are ready to recognize them.”​

Like I said before, even when peace is offered, the Israeli's reject it.

 

[Challenger]

Thought I would start this new thread rather than allowing the question to derail an ongoing OP...

The answer has to be, for me at least, I have no idea if Hamas would stop firing rockets into Israel...

However, it wouldn't be a bad first step by Israel would it, in an attempt to finding a peaceful solution.

Let's face it, the blockade could VERY easily be reimplemented should Hamas be found to be firing rockets into Israel once the blockade were lifted...

Lift the blockade on the condition that no rockets are fired into Israel by Hamas.

Any Hamas rockets fired into Israel results in an immediate implementation of the blockade.

Easy right?

Hamas will, certainly. Their main objective is to get the siege lifted so they can start rebuilding Gaza in earnest, getting a port and airport functioning, etc. The same can't be said for the more extreme groups in Gaza, or for that matter Mossad operatives, both of which would prefer the status quo in place. The ocassional rocket landing in the desert has always been used by the Zionists to "reimpose a blockade" so your idea wouldn't necessarily work, regardless of who fired what, where.

The saddest part is that you really believe that Hamas' goal is improving Gaza.

Hamas' goal is to destroy Israel. Period

Hamas immediate objective is as I have stated above, to get the siege lifted, rebuild the place and get a functioning port and airport working. Hamas' ultimate goal is the dismantling of the Zionist Paradise in favour of a free Palestinian state, that is not in dispute.

So you basically saying what I'm saying. As an Israeli and as a Zionist, I'm under a risk, since what Hamas is seeking is to destroy me.

So long live Zionism, and may we all witness quick annihilation to Hamas and anyone who supports it.

No I'm not. Hamas wants the dismantaling of the Zionist Paradise, not the extermination of Jewish people, although the rhetoric sometimes conflates the two mainly because the Zionists keep falsely proclaiming they represent all Jewish people everywhere. If you are prepared to live alongside Muslims and Christians as an equal citizen, fine, if not, you are free to go back to where you, or your family emmigrated from originally.

 

[Billo_Really]

And here we have a few more off-topic posts...

Post #205
You seriously haven't put Billo on Ignore?

Post #206
Nah. He's way too much fun to play with. Though I might get bored one day. Its a little too easy to turn his own links against him.

Post #208
I don't know what he posted and I don't want to know.
Trash is trash.

Post #209
Unimaginative misogynistic trash. Ya didn't miss much.
​

The topic is whether violence will cease and you can't separate Palestinian violence from Israeli violence, like one poster is trying to do, because one violence, is directly proportional to the other violence.

Palestinian violence would not exist, if it wasn't for Israeli violence first.

 

[Billo_Really]

I reported the SOB. I can't believe he spoke to another member that way. But I'm not going to put him on ignore, simply because he's usually so laughably funny in his misrepresentations and outright lies.

I guess this last episode he's had just goes to show how uncivilized his kinda people really are.

Which is why I strongly support Israel's strengthening the embargo and throwing the UNWRA out. I'd simply make the pali's step out of hiding and into determination centers in order to receive their welfare and food rations and then not allow them back into the war zone. Exactly as the conventions dictate. Either deport them ( if they are determined to be combatants, having assisted combatants or are suspected of aiding or being combatants ) Or segregate them in temporary detention camps.

Once Gaza was empty, I'd bulldoze the place just to make sure. Replace whatever pali's remain in the internment camps. Then I'd place it under just as strong restrictions for some number of years until the remaining pali's had earned their way back into polite society. Rinse and repeat in the disputed territories one terrorist enclave at a time UN camp or not.

I'm pretty sure the operation could be completed in as little as 36 months.

Problem solved

The world can freak for all I care, but its a war the pali's insist on, and war's not pretty.

That was civilized of you?

 

[Billo_Really]

the op asked would the fucking Pals stop killing people.

Which is predicated on the fact that the Israeli's are killing them.

and I posted, the fact, that israel traded land for peace and didn't get it.

That's not a fact, that's what you believe.

An area under occupation, can never change ownership into the hands of the occupier.

so clearly, blatantly clearly, Pals have no intention to ever quit killing.

They have no intention of giving up, as long as the Israeli's maintain the occupation and blockade.

saying it's their land is fucking bullshit, everywhere anyone goes, someone was there first.

That's right. And when Zionists showed up at the beginning of the last century, there were already 750,000 Arabs living in the area, to just 10,000 Jews.

 

[Challenger]

the op asked would the fucking Pals stop killing people.

Which is predicated on the fact that the Israeli's are killing them.

and I posted, the fact, that israel traded land for peace and didn't get it.

That's not a fact, that's what you believe.

An area under occupation, can never change ownership into the hands of the occupier.

so clearly, blatantly clearly, Pals have no intention to ever quit killing.

They have no intention of giving up, as long as the Israeli's maintain the occupation and blockade.

saying it's their land is fucking bullshit, everywhere anyone goes, someone was there first.

That's right. And when Zionists showed up at the beginning of the last century, there were already 750,000 Arabs living in the area, to just 10,000 Jews.

Technically, 750,000 Muslim and 10,000 Jewish Palestinian subjects of the Ottoman Empire.

 

[Billo_Really]

Technically, 750,000 Muslim and 10,000 Jewish Palestinian subjects of the Ottoman Empire.

They could've been subjects of the Empire of Dr. Evil, they're still the people who were living in that area for generations.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Billo, you would be much more convincing in your arguments if they weren't so disingenuous, bordering on outright lies. If you want to discuss the conflict, even have some of those on the pro-Israeli side be critical of Israel's actions, you have to tone down the rhetoric and begin with the truth.

The Israeli's gave their word in August 2014 that there would be a ceasefire and since then, have attacked Gaza 696 times.

Let's start by being honest about what these numbers mean. There is a security perimeter around Gaza. The security perimeter consists of a fence and a buffer zone on land and a outer limit of either 3 or 6 nautical miles for watercraft. You may not agree with the existence of this security perimeter, but it exists. Entrance into the buffer zone, or past the limit on water is a violation of the ceasefire. The IDF, when faced with these violations, will instruct those violating the buffer zone or limit to turn back. If they refuse, warning shots are fired and if they further refuse they may be shot at, typically with intent to wound and not with lethal force. (That is the plan, in war zones things don't always go according to plan.)

So, no, Israel did not attack Gaza 696 times. What that number is, and the individual incidents can be found online, is the 696 times that Gazans violated the buffer zone or the fishing limit -- violated the ceasefire agreement -- and Israel responded. Very, very few of the incidents resulted in lasting harm, injury or loss of life.

The blockade was in retaliation for the Pals voting for people Israel didn't like.

The blockade was in response to Hamas' statement that they did not intend to honor any previous agreements and the explicit statement that they would attack Israel with as much force and as many weapons as they could lay their hands on. Which they then demonstrated with renewed rocket and mortar fire.

The blockade is the CONSEQUENCE which occurred following both the statement and the actions.

You seriously haven't put Billo on Ignore?

I don't put anyone on ignore because I don't think of myself as a coward. Billo has never been to the Middle East, and has a hopelessly simplistic, naive approach to the situation there. According to him, Israel should just quit the West Bank and lift the Gazan blockade tomorrow, and be damned with any consequences. Also according to him, he couldn't give a sh*t if 250,000 Syrians get killed by other Ayrabs in that country, but he would go ballistic if Israel bombed an empty building in Damascus. Life is not black-and-white, and a dead Arab that's killed by other Arabs is as dead as one that's killed by Israelis. He would do better by sticking to bar brawls rather than engaging in geopolitical discussions about the Mideast.

 

[Shusha]

They have no intention of giving up, as long as the Israeli's maintain the occupation and blockade.

This is a really important point. Is the cause of the Palestinian violence the blockade or the occupation (and by 'occupation' I mean any Jewish sovereignty over any of the territory from river to sea)? One member has already admitted that the blockade is not the problem and that the Palestinians won't stop fighting until the occupation ends (meaning Israel no longer exists and the territory is under the sovereignty of Arab Muslims).

This is exactly in line with what the Gazans themselves are saying. They are extremists and they are being led by extremists. Therefore, ending the blockade will only provide more resources for them to obtain their true goal -- the destruction of Israel.

 

[Boston1]

They have no intention of giving up, as long as the Israeli's maintain the occupation and blockade.

This is a really important point. Is the cause of the Palestinian violence the blockade or the occupation (and by 'occupation' I mean any Jewish sovereignty over any of the territory from river to sea)? One member has already admitted that the blockade is not the problem and that the Palestinians won't stop fighting until the occupation ends (meaning Israel no longer exists and the territory is under the sovereignty of Arab Muslims).

This is exactly in line with what the Gazans themselves are saying. They are extremists and they are being led by extremists. Therefore, ending the blockade will only provide more resources for them to obtain their true goal -- the destruction of Israel.

Well in the end that is exactly the point. The Gazan's are an inherently violent and primitive people unable to coexist in a civilized world. The tragic part is that the UNWRA has been at the forefront of creating the problem.

By perpetuating this nonsense about right of return, descendant based victim status and teaching hatred, violence, assisting the militants, they have misled generations of terrorists into believing in the false narrative of Hamas and organizations like it.

The problem can't be solved until international sanctioning of the UNWRA stops and more severe restrictions are emplaced.

unfortunately there are innocent lives involved both inside and outside the terrorist enclave that inevitably will end up paying the price

 

[Shusha]

The Gazan's are an inherently violent and primitive people unable to coexist in a civilized world.

I wouldn't go that far. That is as bad as saying that Jews are inherently evil. Let's not stoop to the level of some on this board.

The Gazans, like some other groups in the ME in particular, have adopted an extremist ideology that is incompatible with peace, especially peace with the Jewish people.