CDZ Do you think Nikki Haley is lying about Tillerson and Kelly?

[JimBowie1958]

No.
I still don't trust her politically.

There are differing levels of trust.
I put my wife at a 10, my kids at a 9, the police at an 8, judges at a 3, reporters at a 2 and politicians at a minus infinity.

Some politicians do somehow acquire a conscience, integrity and good character. I think it is the result of a cross species DNA transmission.

Or they were nonpoliticians that crossed into politics.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Yes Nikki Haley has written a book and like all authors she wants it to be successful and make money. The question I have is do you believe she has fabricated statements from Tillerson and Kelly or do you believe she is being accurate? Given the specificity of what she claimed Tillerson and Kelly said, and the generic tone of their responses, I believe Nikki Haley. If someone accuses you of saying A, B, and C and your response is "at no time was I ever doing D, E, and F" you are probably lying.

Tillerson denies undermining Trump after Nikki Haley allegations

I dunno. She's definitely positioning herself for something in 2024, though.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I don't think Nikki is making things up. It's pretty common knowledge that sometimes, some cabinet members would shield Rump and block him from making some really, really bad calls. Some would outright refuse. Of course, their days would be numbered. We aren't privy to the going on in such a chaotic world that Rump demands revolves around him. So I wouldn't be surprised at what she claims.

Now for something else. If Nikki Hayley were to run for President today, I would vote for her hands down. She's tough, to the point and won't take any crap. Like Rump, she seems to not have much of a filter but the difference is, her brain isn't made of mush. And, unlike Rump, I am sure she would surround herself with honest career advisors and she would at least listen to them. There are a lot of reason I would vote for Nikki and I hope I get the chance to voice those if and when she decides to run for President.

 

[Kilroy2]

Why would she lie as in the current world you will never get away with it

well you will have those who believe what they want to believe

Tillson and Kelly both could have come out and say that she did lie but they remain silent because there is nothing else to say

 

[Olde Europe]

--- or possibly, in 2020.

Filing deadlines for primaries are looming, and she can't let herself be seen entering the race before the Senate is sticking a fork into Trump. That kind of disloyalty will be punished by a premature political death. So, the window to get into the race is closing way before a possible conviction / removal opens the contest. How is that supposed to play out for her in 2020?

As to Nikki Haley lying, does it matter in the age of Trump and "alternative facts"?

On the first, that's on the assumption that Rump won't be able to run if you know what I mean.

On the second, yes we expect Rump to lie every time he either opens his gaping maw or doesn't. We expect "alternative facts" from Kellyanne Conway and unlimited bullshit from the usual punditry. We don't expect it from Nikki Haley.

Did you even understand the problem, Pogo? Articles of Impeachment are probably going to be filed in January. Then the Senate has their trial. I'd expect that to take until March, or even April. In the unlikely event the Senate convicts, Haley enters the race in April with no money, no campaign staff, filing deadlines for the primaries long past, and quite a few primaries, too. I am asking again, how does she get into the race? That train, it appears to me, is leaving the station right now, and she'll definitely miss it.

On the second, Haley declared Trump "truthful". If you don't expect world-class mendacity from her, I really don't know what to say.

Think about it: Do you actually believe, Kelly and Tillerson approached Haley, "Hi Nikki, wanna join a conspiracy to undermine the incompetent goof?" I, for one, find that hard to believe. Much rather, they tried to recruit her into a joint effort to talk Trump out of some horribly ill-conceived foreign policy notions, speaking with one voice, emphasizing the dangers facing the country. So, yeah, I am pretty sure she lied in her depiction of the event.

 

[Olde Europe]

Tillson and Kelly both could have come out and say that she did lie but they remain silent because there is nothing else to say

Kelly:

“If by resistance and stalling she means putting a staff process in place…to ensure the [President] knew all the pros and cons of what policy decision he might be contemplating so he could make an informed decision, then guilty as charged,” Kelly told CBS News in response to Haley’s account.​

Tillerson:

Mr. Kelly disputed Ms. Haley in a statement on Sunday and Mr. Tillerson added his own refutation on Monday. “During my service to our country as the secretary of state, at no time did I, nor to my direct knowledge did anyone else serving along with me, take any actions to undermine the president,” Mr. Tillerson said in a statement.

While he offered Mr. Trump frank advice, he said, once the president made a decision, he did his best to carry it out. “Ambassador Haley was rarely a participant in my many meetings and is not in a position to know what I may or may not have said to the president,” Mr. Tillerson added.​

 

[Pogo]

--- or possibly, in 2020.

Filing deadlines for primaries are looming, and she can't let herself be seen entering the race before the Senate is sticking a fork into Trump. That kind of disloyalty will be punished by a premature political death. So, the window to get into the race is closing way before a possible conviction / removal opens the contest. How is that supposed to play out for her in 2020?

As to Nikki Haley lying, does it matter in the age of Trump and "alternative facts"?

On the first, that's on the assumption that Rump won't be able to run if you know what I mean.

On the second, yes we expect Rump to lie every time he either opens his gaping maw or doesn't. We expect "alternative facts" from Kellyanne Conway and unlimited bullshit from the usual punditry. We don't expect it from Nikki Haley.

Did you even understand the problem, Pogo? Articles of Impeachment are probably going to be filed in January. Then the Senate has their trial. I'd expect that to take until March, or even April. In the unlikely event the Senate convicts, Haley enters the race in April with no money, no campaign staff, filing deadlines for the primaries long past, and quite a few primaries, too. I am asking again, how does she get into the race? That train, it appears to me, is leaving the station right now, and she'll definitely miss it.

On the second, Haley declared Trump "truthful". If you don't expect world-class mendacity from her, I really don't know what to say.

Think about it: Do you actually believe, Kelly and Tillerson approached Haley, "Hi Nikki, wanna join a conspiracy to undermine the incompetent goof?" I, for one, find that hard to believe. Much rather, they tried to recruit her into a joint effort to talk Trump out of some horribly ill-conceived foreign policy notions, speaking with one voice, emphasizing the dangers facing the country. So, yeah, I am pretty sure she lied in her depiction of the event.

Again, I'm simply declining to rule it out in the context of "never say never". Suppose in the near-term future some revelation comes out that even Rump can't shake off, suppose he literally does shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, suppose he drops dead from hamberder heart disease. In any of those events the Republican Party would be scrambling to come up with a candidate (or else default to Pence which I doubt anybody thinks is a good idea). In that event it seems to me Haley would be on the short list. Not saying it's likely, just that it's possible. Given that scenario, who else?

Is that scenario likely? Usually no. But this is Rump, anything can happen.

As for what conversations Haley/Tillerson/Kelly had I'm not in a position to know, and I really don't care, which is why I haven't read her account. It's simply not important.

 

[Olde Europe]

Again, I'm simply declining to rule it out in the context of "never say never". Suppose in the near-term future some revelation comes out that even Rump can't shake off, suppose he literally does shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, suppose he drops dead from hamberder heart disease. In any of those events the Republican Party would be scrambling to come up with a candidate (or else default to Pence which I doubt anybody thinks is a good idea). In that event it seems to me Haley would be on the short list. Not saying it's likely, just that it's possible. Given that scenario, who else?

Is that scenario likely? Usually no. But this is Rump, anything can happen.

As for what conversations Haley/Tillerson/Kelly had I'm not in a position to know, and I really don't care, which is why I haven't read her account. It's simply not important.

Look, I am of a split mind on that. If Haley's book is the starting shot of a campaign, it has to be 2020. In 2024, the book will be forgotten and gather dust. I am trying to understand how that is going to work. You seem to suggest they will improvise and open up the primary process for latecomers. That seems somewhat plausible, but I can't remember having heard anything even remotely like that. Of course, in the events you describe, Pence will be the only one with a war chest and an organization for a presidential campaign. Or, Trump donates his campaign cash and "hands over" his staff to his "chosen" successor - provided he'll not raid the accounts on his way out.

As to the Haley/Tillerson/Kelly thing, I just was astonished you professed not to expect mendacity of the kind we see from pretty much every notable Goober up to Conway, or even Trump, from Haley. My impression differs sharply from that.

 

[Kilroy2]

Tillson and Kelly both could have come out and say that she did lie but they remain silent because there is nothing else to say

Kelly:

“If by resistance and stalling she means putting a staff process in place…to ensure the [President] knew all the pros and cons of what policy decision he might be contemplating so he could make an informed decision, then guilty as charged,” Kelly told CBS News in response to Haley’s account.​

Tillerson:

Mr. Kelly disputed Ms. Haley in a statement on Sunday and Mr. Tillerson added his own refutation on Monday. “During my service to our country as the secretary of state, at no time did I, nor to my direct knowledge did anyone else serving along with me, take any actions to undermine the president,” Mr. Tillerson said in a statement.

While he offered Mr. Trump frank advice, he said, once the president made a decision, he did his best to carry it out. “Ambassador Haley was rarely a participant in my many meetings and is not in a position to know what I may or may not have said to the president,” Mr. Tillerson added.​

Well all they are saying that they provide pros and cons to the president and he made the final decision.

Still even with pros and cons, you as a person have one that is preferable.
You believe one is in the best interest of the US and the other would be detrimental to US policy and position in the world. You usually argue your point and for someone like Trump he doesn't like anyone who disagrees with him.

There is a reason why both of them resigned or were forced out

I would guess we will have to wait for the book to find out which one it was

but as good solders they carry out the orders from above.

is Haley lying, I wasn't in the room and do not know what was said

Tillerson wants to keep his future options open and may seek future jobs. Basically saying that he offered pro and con arguments but was a team player.

Still he does not offer why he left and as a team player he has nothing bad to say.

He even misquoted Kelly as Kelly was a little ambiguous with his statement and took a middle road. As a General, I would expect that is what he would do. I believe that he is not going to lie so middle road is the best option.

He uses the words stalling and resisting in a good way

 

[Olde Europe]

Tillson and Kelly both could have come out and say that she did lie but they remain silent because there is nothing else to say

Kelly:

“If by resistance and stalling she means putting a staff process in place…to ensure the [President] knew all the pros and cons of what policy decision he might be contemplating so he could make an informed decision, then guilty as charged,” Kelly told CBS News in response to Haley’s account.​

Tillerson:

Mr. Kelly disputed Ms. Haley in a statement on Sunday and Mr. Tillerson added his own refutation on Monday. “During my service to our country as the secretary of state, at no time did I, nor to my direct knowledge did anyone else serving along with me, take any actions to undermine the president,” Mr. Tillerson said in a statement.

While he offered Mr. Trump frank advice, he said, once the president made a decision, he did his best to carry it out. “Ambassador Haley was rarely a participant in my many meetings and is not in a position to know what I may or may not have said to the president,” Mr. Tillerson added.​

Well all they are saying that they provide pros and cons to the president and he made the final decision.

Still even with pros and cons, you as a person have one that is preferable.
You believe one is in the best interest of the US and the other would be detrimental to US policy and position in the world. You usually argue your point and for someone like Trump he doesn't like anyone who disagrees with him.

There is a reason why both of them resigned or were forced out

I would guess we will have to wait for the book to find out which one it was

but as good solders they carry out the orders from above.

is Haley lying, I wasn't in the room and do not know what was said

Tillerson wants to keep his future options open and may seek future jobs. Basically saying that he offered pro and con arguments but was a team player.

Still he does not offer why he left and as a team player he has nothing bad to say.

He even misquoted Kelly as Kelly was a little ambiguous with his statement and took a middle road. As a General, I would expect that is what he would do. I believe that he is not going to lie so middle road is the best option.

He uses the words stalling and resisting in a good way

The main point is, kilroy, Tillerson and Kelly both have come out and did say, in so many words, Haley did lie, and they did not remain silent because they apparently thought there is something else to say. So, your claim was clearly wrong.

Tillerson and Kelly are very, highly unlikely ever again to seek a political job, whereas Haley quite clearly does. It is reasonable to assume that her peculiar depiction of the meeting, and her throwing two have-beens under the bus, was supposed further that aim. So, she has the much more compelling rationale to lie, or at least exaggerate, to make herself look good in the eyes of her target audience, which is Trump and his "base".

 

[Pogo]

Again, I'm simply declining to rule it out in the context of "never say never". Suppose in the near-term future some revelation comes out that even Rump can't shake off, suppose he literally does shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, suppose he drops dead from hamberder heart disease. In any of those events the Republican Party would be scrambling to come up with a candidate (or else default to Pence which I doubt anybody thinks is a good idea). In that event it seems to me Haley would be on the short list. Not saying it's likely, just that it's possible. Given that scenario, who else?

Is that scenario likely? Usually no. But this is Rump, anything can happen.

As for what conversations Haley/Tillerson/Kelly had I'm not in a position to know, and I really don't care, which is why I haven't read her account. It's simply not important.

Look, I am of a split mind on that. If Haley's book is the starting shot of a campaign, it has to be 2020. In 2024, the book will be forgotten and gather dust. I am trying to understand how that is going to work. You seem to suggest they will improvise and open up the primary process for latecomers. That seems somewhat plausible, but I can't remember having heard anything even remotely like that. Of course, in the events you describe, Pence will be the only one with a war chest and an organization for a presidential campaign. Or, Trump donates his campaign cash and "hands over" his staff to his "chosen" successor - provided he'll not raid the accounts on his way out.

As to the Haley/Tillerson/Kelly thing, I just was astonished you professed not to expect mendacity of the kind we see from pretty much every notable Goober up to Conway, or even Trump, from Haley. My impression differs sharply from that.

Eh, I dunno, from what I've seen of her from the real Carolina I don't get the impression she traffics in bullshit. She strikes me as too smart for that shit. Even if she is from South Carolina.

Mind you I might be at odds seriously with her politics but I do respect her for not bullshitting me about what they are.

I don't know that her book is designed for impetus for 2020 or 2024 or anything else. It could simply be the opportune time to do it.

 

[candycorn]

Yes Nikki Haley has written a book and like all authors she wants it to be successful and make money. The question I have is do you believe she has fabricated statements from Tillerson and Kelly or do you believe she is being accurate? Given the specificity of what she claimed Tillerson and Kelly said, and the generic tone of their responses, I believe Nikki Haley. If someone accuses you of saying A, B, and C and your response is "at no time was I ever doing D, E, and F" you are probably lying.

Tillerson denies undermining Trump after Nikki Haley allegations

Fundamentally no.

I’m sure many of the senior officials in the Blob Administration had informal back channels where they just laughed at the orange blob.

I would bet the farm that Mattis and Kelly told the people at NORAD to just ignore any phone call from the blob until you heard from one of them.

 

[skye]

I'm not a great fan of Nikki Haley.....she is a warmonger and a neocon, sadly.....there is something about her that I don't quite like.

That being said....I don't think she was lying

 

[MarathonMike]

I'm not a great fan of Nikki Haley.....she is a warmonger and a neocon, sadly.....there is something about her that I don't quite like.

That being said....I don't think she was lying

I think Nikki Haley has Presidential plans and knows how to play her cards. I also am not a big fan but I could see no reason for her to concoct the detailed stories of Tillerson and Kelly trying to recruit her for a coup attempt.

 

[Pogo]

Again, I'm simply declining to rule it out in the context of "never say never". Suppose in the near-term future some revelation comes out that even Rump can't shake off, suppose he literally does shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, suppose he drops dead from hamberder heart disease. In any of those events the Republican Party would be scrambling to come up with a candidate (or else default to Pence which I doubt anybody thinks is a good idea). In that event it seems to me Haley would be on the short list. Not saying it's likely, just that it's possible. Given that scenario, who else?

Is that scenario likely? Usually no. But this is Rump, anything can happen.

As for what conversations Haley/Tillerson/Kelly had I'm not in a position to know, and I really don't care, which is why I haven't read her account. It's simply not important.

Can you control you TDS for just once in your shallow, filthy, miserable existence?

Thanks.

Is this the CDZ? I don't feel like scrolling up, check it out and get back to me. Thanks.

Meanwhile here you are ragging on the same post you just put a "thank you" on sooooooooooooooo

 

[JimBowie1958]

Meanwhile here you are ragging on the same post you just put a "thank you" on sooooooooooooooo

Putting a thank you on a post does not mean I completely agree with all 100% of it.

I thought you had a good post till I got to your TDS part. You were going good till your TDS jack knifed you back into typical standard Wokester blather.

Hence my suggestion to you to improve your posts by avoiding TDS eruptions, which are probably not a plausible expectation on my part. I apologize if I upset you with my harsh language.

I suspect there is a deeper reason that most Wokesters are deterministic fatalists.

 

[Crixus]

Yes Nikki Haley has written a book and like all authors she wants it to be successful and make money. The question I have is do you believe she has fabricated statements from Tillerson and Kelly or do you believe she is being accurate? Given the specificity of what she claimed Tillerson and Kelly said, and the generic tone of their responses, I believe Nikki Haley. If someone accuses you of saying A, B, and C and your response is "at no time was I ever doing D, E, and F" you are probably lying.

Tillerson denies undermining Trump after Nikki Haley allegations

Nope. Not at all.

 

[Pogo]

Meanwhile here you are ragging on the same post you just put a "thank you" on sooooooooooooooo

Putting a thank you on a post does not mean I completely agree with all 100% of it.

I thought you had a good post till I got to your TDS part. You were going good till your TDS jack knifed you back into typical standard Wokester blather.

Hence my suggestion to you to improve your posts by avoiding TDS eruptions, which are probably not a plausible expectation on my part. I apologize if I upset you with my harsh language.

I suspect there is a deeper reason that most Wokesters are deterministic fatalists.

I never did learn to speak Flemish, so "wokester" has no meaning. I presume it's a brown sauce.

And it's a shame you sniffed so much snowflake that you're imagining "TDS" in a post that's entirely about Nikki Haley, which is after all the topic here. I have zero sympathy for your hero-worship meltdowns. That's entirely on you.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I never did learn to speak Flemish, so "wokester" has no meaning. I presume it's a brown sauce.
And it's a shame you sniffed so much snowflake that you're imagining "TDS" in a post that's entirely about Nikki Haley, which is after all the topic here. I have zero sympathy for your hero-worship meltdowns. That's entirely on you.

Yes, you know what a wokester is, but you pretend otherwise as if your ignorance somehow makes the term meaningless, lol.

And when you say things like "Is that scenario likely? Usually no. But this is Rump, anything can happen." that is TDS because it is deranged. There is exactly ZERO chance that Niki Haley will be the Republican 2020 nominee. ZERO, but your TDS doesnt let you see it. You hate Trump so bad you cannot even type his name correctly and have to use a derisive term instead. roflmao, but no, nothing wrong with your perception, it is all Rump and the RUSSIANS!

roflmao.

OK, your back on my ignore list, I have wasted enough time on your nonsense.

 

[Olde Europe]

Eh, I dunno, from what I've seen of her from the real Carolina I don't get the impression she traffics in bullshit. She strikes me as too smart for that shit. Even if she is from South Carolina.

Mind you I might be at odds seriously with her politics but I do respect her for not bullshitting me about what they are.

I don't know that her book is designed for impetus for 2020 or 2024 or anything else. It could simply be the opportune time to do it.

Seen an interview with Haley yesterday. She reiterated her statement Trump was always "truthful" in her dealings with him, and there as no foul in Trump's dealing with Ukraine: The aid was not held up - it was eventually released after all - and the investigations into the Bidens didn't happen.

So, she's been able somehow to forget the 13,000+ documented lies Trump has told since taking office, and extorting a foreign government into interfering in U.S. elections is nothing untoward if the plot eventually, by happenstance, fails. As we know, Zelensky already had an interview scheduled with CNN to announce the investigations, which was canceled at the last minute because news about the whistle-blower complaint hit the news, and Trump hastily released the funds.

I had to switch that thing off, for she was lying at a clip comparable to Trump's. It was unbearable.

Here is another interesting bit: If, as I would guess, you are in favor of a reasonable, well-coordinated, well-informed foreign policy, you would want as far away from it as possible a walking "hand grenade" cooking up a "drug deal" on foreign soil, using the power of the presidency to undermine U.S. foreign policy, and promulgating and chasing around wild-eyed, long-debunked conspiracy theories. Not so Haley, who thinks Trump should have appointed Giuliani "special envoy" to Ukraine. Kid you not. She's probably not into grabbing pussy, but otherwise she's bad news in ways and to a degree similar to Trump.

If "opportune time" means something other than the ghost writer just happened to have finished the book, there has to be a political benefit derived from it, and that should be detectable. However, I cannot figure what that would be, and my reading suggests no one really can. As you've seen on the occasion of Jim's apoplectic reaction, even the mention that 2020 might be in play would be anathema to Trump's base. That leaves the VP spot, not as an end in itself, but as a stepping stone for 2024. Having escaped the Trump orbit largely untainted after two years at the UN, I find it hard to believe she'll risk being taken down by Trump's maelstrom of vulgarity, mendacity, and incompetence during a second term that is in doubt anyway. If bridging the gap between reasonable conservatives and Trump's "base" was the aim, pissing on two high-profile personalities who were widely considered adults in the room doesn't help, either. So, I am still at a loss here.