Do you feel Hate Speech should be Allowed?

[Gunny]

I NEVER said we should abridge freedom of speech. I'm a JOURNALISM MAJOR for god's sake!

And, don't accuse me of being PC. I'm talking about being respectful. Read any political science book EVER that discusses tactics, and it'll talk about creating a respectful dialouge, that's different from "political correctness". In a respectful dialouge you can talk about race, religion, anything without offending anyone.

I've cracked racial jokes to people of those races, made fun of people's religions to their faces, and they've laughed because they knew I was joking, I had proven already that I respected them, made jokes about myself as well, and I knew where to draw the line. And, that's how it should be. I'm not PC, I'm Gen Y, and my generation doesn't need to be PC because we're actually tolerant.


We can say whatever we feel? Really? Even the truth? This from a man who thinks he can speak on behalf of a woman's uterus.

Sorry, but your generation is just the next in line to claim something that was already being done before you were born.

I'd also be willing to be that if you said some of the things you say to your frineds to people who don't know you, you would quickly come under at least verbal assault. That's how it's been in my experience.

I'd also consider how wide a brush you paint your generation with. Your generation has produced some of the most politically intolerant people since the days leading up to the US Civl War.

 

[mightypeon]

Personally, I think that when in doubt, spoken expression should be allowed.
I do not think that our current societys could not deal with a bit of hate speech, nor do I think that "politcal correctness" is always neccesary. Did you ever try to talk about Israeli Human right abuses with (most) Germans? On a usual message board the "discussion" will reach a point where "you=Hitler" in less than one page.
It is very hard to talk about immigration problems (like a vast part of the turkish immigrants who are in Germany for 3 generations not beeing literate in German) too.

 

[editec]

I think we need to at least explore one of Joyce's complaints, folks.

If I say that I don't want to live in a community dominated by poor Blacks because they're inferior. I suppose that can be contrived as hate speech.

But if I say I don't want to live around poor Blacks in america because everywhere they live in great numbers crime IS a serious problem...

..is that hate speech? Or is that just a sad truth that I am willing to acknowledge?

When we dismiss the TRUTH spoken by people who we might all agree is a racist, simply because we all think that person is a racist and deserves opprobrium, I think we are making a terrible mistake.

First of all, because by dismissing that racist, we are closing to the door to a person who might, given time and additional discussion, might come to better appreicate our POV.

Secondly, if we ignore or dismiss that unwelcomed TRUTH, that is being brought to us by that racist, we are closing the door to reality on ourselves, and I suspect that we put ourselves on a road to hell paved with our good intentions.

Some of us do the same thing to Joyce's truth that others of us do to Rev. Wright's truth, BTW.

BOTH of them speak truths that some of us do NOT want to acknowledge because it makes us uncomfortable to acknowledge that they're not entirely wrong.

It doesn't take being a guilty White liberal to acknowledge that Blacks got screwed in this nation -- Wright's truth

Neither does it being a White Supremicist to acknowledge that living in a poor Black community means living with higher levels of crime -- Joyce's truth.

The problem is when people use part of the truth to spin it into a grand lie, folks.

But you cannot solve that problem by ignoring speaker of the partial truth, either.

What you've got to do is acknowldge the partial truth and augment that partial truth with the additional truths that give you the complete picture - the TRUTH.

Let me give you another example of where I believe Joyce has spoken truth and he's been simply dismissed out of hand by some or most of us.

When he says that it appears that everybody but WHITE PEOPLE can demand a homeland, and that doesn't make them racists; but if a White man does it, they are labeled racists, that is an accurate accessment of the reality of our time.


That is exactly what happens to people who say they want at least one place where they can go where White culture dominates. they are dismissed by most of us as racists, even though MOST of us live in communities which ARE dominated by one race or ethnic, too.

They are labeled racists out of hand by most of us who are to some extent or the other covertly racists ourselves.

I often find myself defending the Jews who want a homeland, the Palestinians who want a homeland, the Kurds who want a homeland, the Osettians who want a homeland, the Amerindians who want a homeland, and on and on and on...and I don't think of them as being racists.

So why should I not also defend people like Joyce who ALSO want a homeland where they also can have their own unique culture?

I may not want to be part of that community he and his kind would create, but so what?

I also don't want to be living in a Jewish ghetto, or an Osettian ghetto either.

I think we are all, to some extent or the other, living in denial, folks.

Right wing, left wing, liberal or neo-con, none of us are happy to acknowledge the TRUTH that the other speaks because it is inconvenient to our world view to do so.

But you know...a world view that denies any truth, however inconvenient that truth is for us, gives one distored world view. And a society which accepts such distorted views of reality inevitably finds reality coming to bite it in the ass.

I am a reformed racist, folks. Most of us my age in fact are as well, even though few of us like to admit it.

I did not become so because I was marginalized and ignored by people who weren't racists.

I reformed because people listened to the TRUTHS I knew that made me a racist, and they acknowledged the truths I knew to be true, but they ALSO added additional TRUTHS which gave me a better informed world view.

The truth shall set you free. ​

It may not make you happy, but it will make finding happiness a tad easier in the long run.​

 

[strollingbones]

the whole country should be a free speech zone...if you want to say the holocast never happened...you have ever right to say that...i do not want to see the us have hate speech laws.

as for the kkk their membership has fallen to the point of non existance...who cares where or what david duke is doing or living?

perhaps a little known fact: nc is home to more aryan groups than any other state...go figure....but then again...what does it take to be a "group"...an answering machine? an email group? like anyone else they are entitled to their right to be totally ignorant....

 

[strollingbones]

another thing....i am so sick of white men complaining about how hard it is to be a "white man". oooooooooooo booo hooo hooo.....i am a white man....

so what race do you want to be...tell me? if it is so hard being white?

 

[editec]

Whio is complaining about how hard it is to be a white man, Stoll?

 

[strollingbones]

'Hate speech' just means 'white people speaking the truth about race and ethnicity.'

i took that to mean , that joyce is a white man complaining about being a white man and how his freedoms are limited in the free speech way from being white. O i forgot a white man. there suddenly seems to be the "poor little old me" the "white man"...sorry it was off topic.

i hear speech from both sides that is hardly love speech nor is it hate speech. it is just their opinions on daily life.

 

[editec]

i took that to mean , that joyce is a white man complaining about being a white man and how his freedoms are limited in the free speech way from being white. O i forgot a white man. there suddenly seems to be the "poor little old me" the "white man"...sorry it was off topic.

i hear speech from both sides that is hardly love speech nor is it hate speech. it is just their opinions on daily life.

Well if every time you spoke an unpleasant truth and were called a racist by practically everyone on the board, you might feel that you freedom of speech was someone meaningless, too.

Joyce may be a racist, but that doesn't mean that every time he points something out that is true he should have to take crap because he is a racist.

This nation is overrun with racists, folks. Not all of them are White, either.

 

[Odd1_Out]

Sorry, but your generation is just the next in line to claim something that was already being done before you were born.

I'd also be willing to be that if you said some of the things you say to your frineds to people who don't know you, you would quickly come under at least verbal assault. That's how it's been in my experience.

I'd also consider how wide a brush you paint your generation with. Your generation has produced some of the most politically intolerant people since the days leading up to the US Civl War.

No, my generation is definately more tolerant than those that have come before, you can look at any polling on the subject. I'm not just talking about race, I'm also talking about the gay rights movement that my generation will see through, if those before us don't. I know that this tolerance is not true of all of us, but it is of the vast majority, and the majority is what will shape the future of this county.

And, of course, you don't make certain comments to people you don't know. That has nothing to do with being tolerant or not, its just common sense. You're not supposed to even bring up politics or religion with someone you know, let alone make an off-color joke at their expense.

Comparing our "political intolerance," as you call it, to that which lead up to the Civil War is just completely ridiculous. No one is advocating killing their neighbor, and such extreme comments only tell of your personal distaste for what you see our beliefs to be. We're the next wave of the progressive movement, and if that troubles you, then I guess you better brace yourself.

 

[Bootneck]

One picture is worth a thousand words!

 

[Sunni Man]

One picture is worth a thousand words!

What words?

 

[Bootneck]

It's an old saying. Never heard it before?

 

[Sunni Man]

Sarcasm brother, sarcasm!

 

[William Joyce]

There is a big difference between "hate speech" and simply acknowledging the difference between races and other groups.

But, as editec suggests, if you were to start a discussion of the information in 'The Bell Curve,' it would be quickly denounced as 'hate speech.' You wouldn't get anywhere. People would yell, scream, cry, become emotional to the point of hysteria. And that's the whites!

I personally think the topic of inherited racial differences in intelligence is the most un-discussable topic out there. People just freak out about the idea that blacks are, on average, a little less intelligent than white people. Too much information. Too hot to handle. I remember when I first read about this, in a book called 'Why Race Matters' by Michael Levin. Here's this guy, a Jewish philosophy professor at CUNY in New York City, running down all the information on this, and I'm reading it in my apartment and going ape-shit. I had to put the book down and go for a walk. What??? This can't be!!! But it wasn't like it was David Duke saying it, it was a Jewish philosophy prof. I even thought, 'Well, even if this is true, maybe we should just be quiet about it, because black feelings will be hurt otherwise.'

But the evidence of this is overwhelming. Hundreds of studies going back to WWI all show, with consistency, the same thing: the black IQ is on average 15 points lower than the white IQ.

Yet we still blame test score gaps on "white racism", or we talk about "lack of funding" or what have you. Nobody wants to 'go there', as they say, 'cause it's just too depressing.

 

[Gunny]

No, my generation is definately more tolerant than those that have come before, you can look at any polling on the subject. I'm not just talking about race, I'm also talking about the gay rights movement that my generation will see through, if those before us don't. I know that this tolerance is not true of all of us, but it is of the vast majority, and the majority is what will shape the future of this county.

And, of course, you don't make certain comments to people you don't know. That has nothing to do with being tolerant or not, its just common sense. You're not supposed to even bring up politics or religion with someone you know, let alone make an off-color joke at their expense.

Comparing our "political intolerance," as you call it, to that which lead up to the Civil War is just completely ridiculous. No one is advocating killing their neighbor, and such extreme comments only tell of your personal distaste for what you see our beliefs to be. We're the next wave of the progressive movement, and if that troubles you, then I guess you better brace yourself.

I disagree. And remember, I lived through my generation AND yours.

The comparison is hardly ridiculous. No one was advocating killing one another in their political intolerance prior to the Civil War either.

The next wave of the progressive movement? Ever asked what you're "progressing" toward? Look at you. Look at your post. You sound like my daughter in 1995 trying to tell me I didn't know how bell bottom jeans were supposed to fit.

What you are is just another person in a generation that thinks they're going to reinvent the wheel.

Trouble me? Hardly. You too will grow the fuck up sooner or later. Hopefully.

 

[Luissa]

I disagree. And remember, I lived through my generation AND yours.

The comparison is hardly ridiculous. No one was advocating killing one another in their political intolerance prior to the Civil War either.

The next wave of the progressive movement? Ever asked what you're "progressing" toward? Look at you. Look at your post. You sound like my daughter in 1995 trying to tell me I didn't know how bell bottom jeans were supposed to fit.

What you are is just another person in a generation that thinks they're going to reinvent the wheel.

Trouble me? Hardly. You too will grow the fuck up sooner or later. Hopefully.

You are probably right on our generation and being intolerant, I have friends who have said and done very hateful things. Of course they are not my friends anymore. We now have underlying racism. Our generation is all about 'what i think is right , what you think is wrong!'

 

[Silence]

I hate the word "tolerant" ....

who the fuck is anyone else to pass judgement to begin with? do you think you're doing someone a favor by "tolearting" them?

how magnanimous of you I'm sure...

I've never felt I need to "tolerate" someone...I just live my life and as long as their choices don't infringe on MY life why should I care?

 

[Modbert]

I disagree. And remember, I lived through my generation AND yours.

The comparison is hardly ridiculous. No one was advocating killing one another in their political intolerance prior to the Civil War either.

The next wave of the progressive movement? Ever asked what you're "progressing" toward? Look at you. Look at your post. You sound like my daughter in 1995 trying to tell me I didn't know how bell bottom jeans were supposed to fit.

What you are is just another person in a generation that thinks they're going to reinvent the wheel.

Trouble me? Hardly. You too will grow the fuck up sooner or later. Hopefully.

My generation and the one before mine did try to reinvent the wheel. Except all they did was bling it out so the wheel was worth more then the car itself at times.

 

[Luissa]

I hate the word "tolerant" ....

who the fuck is anyone else to pass judgement to begin with? do you think you're doing someone a favor by "tolearting" them?

how magnanimous of you I'm sure...

I've never felt I need to "tolerate" someone...I just live my life and as long as their choices don't infringe on MY life why should I care?

isn't that showing tolerance toward them.

 

[KGB]

who is the government to determine what is or what is not "hate speech"? their power comes from the people, not the other way around...this is what libs don't get or refuse to see....

as far as the question is concerned, "hate speech" should be judged by society, not politicians.....we already have too many restrictions in this world courtesy of the Left.....Political correctness, academia, etc....