Do we need to fear God?

[Stann]

Ecclesiastes 12:13​

​

King James Version​

​

​

13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.


Read full chapter
Ecclesiastes 12:13 in all English translations

Mortimer , It doesn't mean to be scared of God but to fear His wrath and anger if you don't obey the Commandments.

A real god would not want to be feared or obeyed. This is part of the chemistry of a human tribal god, nothing more.

 

[ding]

A real god would not want to be feared or obeyed. This is part of the chemistry of a human tribal god, nothing more.

I suspect it's your "perception" of God that is flawed. You don't have one. And your ability to interpret what you are reading without bias.

 

[buttercup]

You stated your belief as if it were fact instead of as your belief. Then you went on to ridicule an opposing view. That's not discussion, that's argumentation. Fortunately myths aren't taught in public schools anymore. It would be impossible and not advantageous to teach them all, there are over 100 world mythologies. It is believed they have all evolved from a single one, a very ancient root one that doesn't exist anymore. As far as the Christian mythology goes it is quite similar to the Zoroastrians and one of the earliest Greek ones, which it is probably based on.

What I stated as fact is that the bible / Christianity teaches that there is ONE God. Not numerous "tribal gods" as you claimed.

That was not me stating my belief as fact... it's something that can be verified by simply reading the bible or learning about standard Christian teaching, that there's one God.

 

[buttercup]

Fear and love are antithetical

If someone who claims they love you inspires fear in you then there is no love in that relationship.

You unwittingly confirmed what the bible says. Good job!

There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears punishment has not been perfected in love.​

​

1 John 4:18​

 

[buttercup]

The irony is that the very ones who NEED to fear God, DON'T.

They will -- as they take their last breath. The instant they reawaken they will stand before the Creator of all that exists to ACCOUNT for their time they were given on this earth

Yep, absolutely true.

If they DID have any reverence for God, they would be obeying Him, out of love and respect.... instead of angrily shaking their fist at God, like a 3 year old toddler having a tantrum does to mommy and daddy.

 

[Stann]

What I stated as fact is that the bible / Christianity teaches that there is ONE God. Not numerous "tribal gods" as you claimed.

That was not me stating my belief as fact... it's something that can be verified by simply reading the bible or learning about standard Christian teaching, that there's one God.

I guess you missed the Book of Kings which mentions Asherah ( god's wife ) was worshipped alongside her husband Yahweh, in the temple. A plethora of other gods are mentioned in other books the Christians decided not to include in their Bible. Probably not consistent with the story line of one god ( in three ) ? they were attempting to spread.

 

[Stann]

Yep, absolutely true.

If they DID have any reverence for God, they would be obeying Him, out of love and respect.... instead of angrily shaking their fist at God, like a 3 year old toddler having a tantrum does to mommy and daddy.

You talk about children, yes, they easily believe in fantasies. Good luck with that.

 

[Blues Man]

You unwittingly confirmed what the bible says. Good job!

There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears punishment has not been perfected in love.​

​

1 John 4:18​

And yet believers fear gods

 

[buttercup]

And yet believers fear gods

It appears that you didn't read the thread. I'll repeat… when the Bible talks about believers' 'fear of the Lord' - the word translated, as 'fear' means a deep reverence / awe… Not the type of fear you're thinking of.

And it's pretty arrogant for an atheist to try to speak for any believer, let alone all believers.

The scripture I posted yesterday puts your false notion to rest. I'll post it again for you.

There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears punishment has not been perfected in love.
1 John 4:18

 

[buttercup]

I guess you missed the Book of Kings which mentions Asherah ( god's wife ) was worshipped alongside her husband Yahweh, in the temple. A plethora of other gods are mentioned in other books the Christians decided not to include in their Bible. Probably not consistent with the story line of one god ( in three ) ? they were attempting to spread.

A carved image?

Of course the Bible mentions FALSE pagan gods. (keyword: false) You are making it sound like the Bible is saying those are real gods, when it's the exact opposite.

Again, there is only ONE God. That's what the bible teaches, not numerous "tribal gods."

 

[Blues Man]

It appears that you didn't read the thread. I'll repeat… when the Bible talks about believers' 'fear of the Lord' - the word translated, as 'fear' means a deep reverence / awe… Not the type of fear you're thinking of.

And it's pretty arrogant for an atheist to try to speak for any believer, let alone all believers.

The scripture I posted yesterday puts your false notion to rest. I'll post it again for you.

There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears punishment has not been perfected in love.
1 John 4:18

For the umpteenth time I am not an atheist.

I don't deny the existence of gods never did.

IF gods exist they are nothing like the god in the bible because the god of the bible has been invented by humans and it's pretty clear to me that IF gods exist they really don't give a shit about us puny short lived humans

Now religion is what I do have contempt for. It's based on fear and greed and not much else and IMO people would be a lot better off without it.

 

[buttercup]

For the umpteenth time I am not an atheist.

I don't deny the existence of gods never did.

I should've use the word nonbeliever, sorry, because I understand that one can not believe, yet also not explicitly deny the existence of God. Sometimes there's a fine line between those two types, however.

IF gods exist they are nothing like the god in the bible because the god of the bible has been invented by humans

That is your opinion, so please don't state it as if it is a fact. I could say more here, but I don't want this to be too long, because I don't have a whole lot of time right now.

and it's pretty clear to me that IF gods exist they really don't give a shit about us puny short lived humans

This is actually illogical, and based on one's own limited experience, which does not always reflect the truth.

It's illogical, because by definition God is the Creator, Supreme Being, and as such the source of truth and morality itself. In other words, no one can be "better" or more "right" than God... so for a fallible created human being to criticize God's morality is nonsensical and silly. That would be putting yourself above God, which is insane.

Again, as I said to Stann, it's like a 3 year old toddler in the middle of a tantrum waving his fist at mommy and daddy saying "you are a mean poo poo head!" ... not because the parents did anything wrong, but because the toddler isn't capable of understanding why the parent didn't let him play with a knife, or whatever the case may be.

God never promised that this world would be a bed of roses.... quite the opposite, in fact. From a Christian perspective, it is made very clear that this is a fallen, corrupted world. That doesn't mean there is no good, and it doesn't mean that God does not care.... both of those are false ideas, again, likely based on negative experiences one had in their past, and ignorance of God, and of His true nature and character.

Now religion is what I do have contempt for. It's based on fear and greed and not much else and IMO people would be a lot better off without it.

Religion and God are two different things. I too hate religion - when it is false, empty or not in line with truth.

Here's a scripture on religion:

Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world. (James 1:27)

 

[Stann]

It appears that you didn't read the thread. I'll repeat… when the Bible talks about believers' 'fear of the Lord' - the word translated, as 'fear' means a deep reverence / awe… Not the type of fear you're thinking of.

Does the above statement compel you in any way to be obedient to your God's will ? That is a simple enough question. Please answer in your own words, not religious propaganda.

 

[Meriweather]

Does the above statement compel you in any way to be obedient to your God's will ?

That statement was: the word translated, as 'fear' means a deep reverence / awe…

Stann, your question is reverse thinking. Understand that it is obedience to God's will that results in our deep reverence and awe.

 

[Stann]

That statement was: the word translated, as 'fear' means a deep reverence / awe…

Stann, your question is reverse thinking. Understand that it is obedience to God's will that results in our deep reverence and awe.

So you willingly enslave yourselves to this idea of a tribal god.

 

[Meriweather]

So you willingly enslave yourselves to this idea of a tribal god.

There are two things wrong with your statement.

• God is universal, not tribal.
• Following His ways leads out of slavery and into to freedom.

 

[Stann]

There are two things wrong with your statement.

• God is universal, not tribal.
• Following His ways leads out of slavery and into to freedom.

I agree GOD is universal. But most religious gods very much reflect their tribal origins. The so-called " admonitions " in the Bible are the best examples of that. As is Christianity itself.

 

[Meriweather]

I agree GOD is universal. But most religious gods very much reflect their tribal origins. The so-called " admonitions " in the Bible are the best examples of that. As is Christianity itself.

Think about admonitions. They are direct and to the point. Diets are a good example. We can find pages and pages, books upon books to tell us what to eat. But for most, it boils down to, "Don't eat refined sugars." There is so much we can eat, it is easier to list what not to.

The same with the Commandments. There is so much we can do, it is a so much shorter list to note what we should not do.

Then take a look at one of the first 'Do's' of Honor your mother and father. The immediate question is, "How do I do that?" and there you have it, a long list of do's. Would have been much simpler to say, "Don't dishonor your parents."

 

[Stann]

Think about admonitions. They are direct and to the point. Diets are a good example. We can find pages and pages, books upon books to tell us what to eat. But for most, it boils down to, "Don't eat refined sugars." There is so much we can eat, it is easier to list what not to.

The same with the Commandments. There is so much we can do, it is a so much shorter list to note what we should not do.

Then take a look at one of the first 'Do's' of Honor your mother and father. The immediate question is, "How do I do that?" and there you have it, a long list of do's. Would have been much simpler to say, "Don't dishonor your parents."

The abominations list

Think about admonitions. They are direct and to the point. Diets are a good example. We can find pages and pages, books upon books to tell us what to eat. But for most, it boils down to, "Don't eat refined sugars." There is so much we can eat, it is easier to list what not to.

The same with the Commandments. There is so much we can do, it is a so much shorter list to note what we should not do.

Then take a look at one of the first 'Do's' of Honor your mother and father. The immediate question is, "How do I do that?" and there you have it, a long list of do's. Would have been much simpler to say, "Don't dishonor your parents."

If you want to have a strong tribe you make up rules for your tribal members to live by. These aren't god inspired, men made them up, all 613 of them. That's why so many of them don't seem to be related or make any sense at all. Some of the hateful and divisive things in them further proves they are not of divine origin. And the end purpose to promote strong warriors to make war against all those perceived enemies. Christianity used them to persecute others. All man-made in origin. God would have nothing to do with favoring any people he created over another.

 

[Meriweather]

If you want to have a strong tribe you make up rules for your tribal members to live by. These aren't god inspired, men made them up, all 613 of them. That's why so many of them don't seem to be related or make any sense at all. Some of the hateful and divisive things in them further proves they are not of divine origin. And the end purpose to promote strong warriors to make war against all those perceived enemies. Christianity used them to persecute others. All man-made in origin. God would have nothing to do with favoring any people he created over another.

The first thing any observant Jew will tell you, is that not all 613 commandments are for everyone. For example, there are only seven for those who are not Jews. Some of their own rules are only for certain situations, some only for men, some only for women.

Which of the seven Noahide Laws are you in disagreement with?

• Do not profane God’s Oneness in any way.
• Do not curse your Creator.
• Do not murder.
• Do not eat a limb of a still-living animal.
• Do not steal.
• Harness and channel the human libido. (Incest, adultery, rape and homosexual relations are forbidden.)
• Establish courts of law and ensure justice in our world.

If you hold no belief in God, then no need to fret about the first two.