Do Natural Rights Exist Without Government ?

[dilloduck]

If he has a right to be free I can come by and kill the people that are enslaving him in order to set him free, if he doesn't, I have to walk away.

No you don't---you are perfectly free to free him. There are laws against slavery

Not on the hypothetical island we are talking about.

oh damn----I didn't see the hypothetical rule book you wrote.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No you don't---you are perfectly free to free him. There are laws against slavery

Not on the hypothetical island we are talking about.

oh damn----I didn't see the hypothetical rule book you wrote.

It wasn't my hypothesis, I just played by the rules set up by Asclepias.

 

[Pennywise]

Not on the hypothetical island we are talking about.

oh damn----I didn't see the hypothetical rule book you wrote.

It wasn't my hypothesis, I just played by the rules set up by Asclepias.

Actually the island was my contribution.

 

[Asclepias]

Because the Union was too fragile. That's the truth. Sometimes you must take a half measure and eat some crow in the short term. The wrongs were righted.

So you go against what the creator says is right for the short term instead of going forth and dealing with the fallout? Doesn't sound like a whole lot of faith in that creator concept to me.

Without that the United States would not have come to be. We all make choices, sometimes they are the wrong ones. Would you prefer living in Somalia?

Who told you the US would not have come to be? I would think that someone claiming a creator gave us inalienable rights would trust that everything would work out as it was meant to be if their actions matched their words. What does living in Somalia have to do with anything?

 

[Asclepias]

oh damn----I didn't see the hypothetical rule book you wrote.

It wasn't my hypothesis, I just played by the rules set up by Asclepias.

Actually the island was my contribution.

Quantum enjoys lying on me.

 

[dilloduck]

oh damn----I didn't see the hypothetical rule book you wrote.

It wasn't my hypothesis, I just played by the rules set up by Asclepias.

Actually the island was my contribution.

I think we should all get drunk and write a declaration of something.

 

[Asclepias]

No you don't---you are perfectly free to free him. There are laws against slavery

Not on the hypothetical island we are talking about.

oh damn----I didn't see the hypothetical rule book you wrote.

No worries. You are still able to come by and enslave the guy keeping the slave according to the rule book.

 

[Asclepias]

You can never see the evidence if you do not recognize the creator as an entity. Call it God or Nature. You cannot consider such heady issues without philosophy as a major contributing element.

Who made up philosophy?

No one, it is a process of man's understanding of man. It has evolved over millenia, like language.

No one? How did it come to be part of human evolution? Where did we pick it up from?

 

[beagle9]

This was pointed out earlier. Why not just call them rights and do the same thing instead of pretending they came from somewhere other than man?

Because if rights are not recognized as inherent in man, they are subject to those in power.

This is what our founders understood. It's why we are a Republic, not a democracy or monarchy.

All rights are subject to those in power. They made up the rights in the first place.

So sad you are, that you keep on and on with the same lines in trying to make something else out of something we already know to be truth in this universe and within this nation, so what is your end game or motive here ? Are you one of those whom want to upset the apple cart so much so in which harbors the things in which you don't like within this nation, and this because of what reasoning in which you have to do so or that you are trying to do so with ?

I see people like you as a challenger to the constitution, the republic, and it's centuries old belief systems that have been sworn in over time by our leaders to protect, and so it is that you are among those whom want to fundamentally change this republic, and then turn it into something that you desire more so within your ways of thinking, and this along with those who are like you and think like you? So it is that you are laying this out on the line for all to see within your constant positions taken on this subject, and if so that is good for all to see and understand now, because it needs to be known by all as to what is going down in this nation today.

There are many like you, and it is all written about in the word, so go and explain that one if you dare to read about yourself in the word in which describes you and/or rather your character to a T.

Explain how it is that thousands of years ago, you were known about, and you were written about in a book that has been spot on till this very day about all of these things that are spoken of.

 

[Asclepias]

Because if rights are not recognized as inherent in man, they are subject to those in power.

This is what our founders understood. It's why we are a Republic, not a democracy or monarchy.

All rights are subject to those in power. They made up the rights in the first place.

So sad you are, that you keep on and on with the same lines in trying to make something else out of something we already know to be truth in this universe and within this nation, so what is your end game or motive here ? Are you one of those whom want to upset the apple cart so much so in which harbors the things in which you don't like within this nation, and this because of what reasoning in which you have to do so or that you are trying to do so with ?

I see people like you as a challenger to the constitution, the republic, and it's centuries old belief systems that have been sworn in over time by our leaders to protect, and so it is that you are among those whom want to fundamentally change this republic, and then turn it into something that you desire more so within your ways of thinking, and this along with those who are like you and think like you? So it is that you are laying this out on the line for all to see within your constant positions taken on this subject, and if so that is good for all to see and understand now, because it needs to be known by all as to what is going down in this nation today.

There are many like you, and it is all written about in the word, so go and explain that one if you dare to read about yourself in the word in which describes you and/or rather your character to a T.

Explain how it is that thousands of years ago, you were known about, and you were written about in a book that has been spot on till this very day about all of these things that are spoken of.

When logic, reason, and all else fails invoke the Bible. I'm pretty sure there were other people that thought like I did back when they wrote about God giving us this or that. That would explain to me how they foresaw the possibility of people that think like me. What would have impressed me even more is if they specifically named me instead of allowing you to judge patterns in white noise and claiming its prophesy.

Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:

If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

Is this the same God that said I have a right to liberty?

 

[Pennywise]

Who made up philosophy?

No one, it is a process of man's understanding of man. It has evolved over millenia, like language.

No one? How did it come to be part of human evolution? Where did we pick it up from?

It is through enlightenment: a spiritual awakening of the mind. It became part of human evolution like language and art as we broke free from basic instincts and sought to understand our place in the universe.

Despite what some believe, we are not the same as beasts; we are better because we are introspective. This doesn't mean all of us are better or even that the better among us are always better, but it means our ability to empathize shows that we know we are just a small part of the greater universe.

 

[dblack]

It wasn't my hypothesis, I just played by the rules set up by Asclepias.

Actually the island was my contribution.

I think we should all get drunk and write a declaration of something.

That's not what you've been doing?

 

[Asclepias]

No one, it is a process of man's understanding of man. It has evolved over millenia, like language.

No one? How did it come to be part of human evolution? Where did we pick it up from?

It is through enlightenment: a spiritual awakening of the mind. It became part of human evolution like language and art as we broke free from basic instincts and sought to understand our place in the universe.

Despite what some believe, we are not the same as beasts; we are better because we are introspective. This doesn't mean all of us are better or even that the better among us are always better, but it means our ability to empathize shows that we know we are just a small part of the greater universe.

Not to demean your religion or belief but why is that simply not just a function of our specific biology? Why does it have to have a religious explanation? Animals have languages. They communicate with each other with sounds that represent concepts.

 

[Pennywise]

No one? How did it come to be part of human evolution? Where did we pick it up from?

It is through enlightenment: a spiritual awakening of the mind. It became part of human evolution like language and art as we broke free from basic instincts and sought to understand our place in the universe.

Despite what some believe, we are not the same as beasts; we are better because we are introspective. This doesn't mean all of us are better or even that the better among us are always better, but it means our ability to empathize shows that we know we are just a small part of the greater universe.

Not to demean your religion or belief but why is that simply not just a function of our specific biology? Why does it have to have a religious explanation? Animals have languages. They communicate with each other with sounds that represent concepts.

I didn't mention religion.

 

[Asclepias]

It is through enlightenment: a spiritual awakening of the mind. It became part of human evolution like language and art as we broke free from basic instincts and sought to understand our place in the universe.

Despite what some believe, we are not the same as beasts; we are better because we are introspective. This doesn't mean all of us are better or even that the better among us are always better, but it means our ability to empathize shows that we know we are just a small part of the greater universe.

Not to demean your religion or belief but why is that simply not just a function of our specific biology? Why does it have to have a religious explanation? Animals have languages. They communicate with each other with sounds that represent concepts.

I didn't mention religion.

Yeah you did indirectly. You said spiritual. Did you mean something else?

 

[Pennywise]

Not to demean your religion or belief but why is that simply not just a function of our specific biology? Why does it have to have a religious explanation? Animals have languages. They communicate with each other with sounds that represent concepts.

I didn't mention religion.

Yeah you did indirectly. You said spirituality. Did you mean something else?

Spirituality does not necessarily mean religion. Philosophy is a highly spiritual undertaking which may or may not include religious aspects.

When we talk of inalienable rights, or 'the creator' that can mean something different to a Buddhist or a Christian or an Agnostic. Trying to understand where one fits into the grand scheme of life (if anywhere or at all) is philosophy. Trying to understand said is a path to enlightenment. It's not about religion.

 

[Asclepias]

I didn't mention religion.

Yeah you did indirectly. You said spirituality. Did you mean something else?

Spirituality does not necessarily mean religion. Philosophy is a highly spiritual undertaking which may or may not include religious aspects.

When we talk of inalienable rights, or 'the creator' that can mean something different to a Buddhist or a Christian or an Agnostic. Trying to understand where one fits into the grand scheme of life (if anywhere or at all) is philosophy. Trying to understand said is a path to enlightenment. It's not about religion.

OK lets roll with that. Whatever you call it is it something that came from outside the human mind or is it something that is part of our biology?

 

[dilloduck]

Actually the island was my contribution.

I think we should all get drunk and write a declaration of something.

That's not what you've been doing?

har har Mr Black care to play along ?

 

[Pennywise]

Yeah you did indirectly. You said spirituality. Did you mean something else?

Spirituality does not necessarily mean religion. Philosophy is a highly spiritual undertaking which may or may not include religious aspects.

When we talk of inalienable rights, or 'the creator' that can mean something different to a Buddhist or a Christian or an Agnostic. Trying to understand where one fits into the grand scheme of life (if anywhere or at all) is philosophy. Trying to understand said is a path to enlightenment. It's not about religion.

OK lets roll with that. Whatever you call it is it something that came from outside the human mind or is it something that is part of our biology?

It depends on one's personal philosophy. Some believe it is innate to an evolved brain, some believe it is divine (otherworldly).

 

[Asclepias]

Spirituality does not necessarily mean religion. Philosophy is a highly spiritual undertaking which may or may not include religious aspects.

When we talk of inalienable rights, or 'the creator' that can mean something different to a Buddhist or a Christian or an Agnostic. Trying to understand where one fits into the grand scheme of life (if anywhere or at all) is philosophy. Trying to understand said is a path to enlightenment. It's not about religion.

OK lets roll with that. Whatever you call it is it something that came from outside the human mind or is it something that is part of our biology?

It depends on one's personal philosophy. Some believe it is innate to an evolved brain, some believe it is divine (otherworldly).

Which is your personal philosophy?