Zone1 Do most Jews believe they killed Jesus?

I have no doubt Jesus was a holy man, but his followers seem to have embellished the story. Spiritual healing doesn't require the supernatural or magic.
24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise. And Jesus didn't give you the option of holy man. He is either who he claimed he is or he is a mad man. There's no middle ground.

So what was the meaning of him walking on water? Because you don't believe the manuscripts meant he really walked on water, right? Even though that's exactly what they recorded.
 
What does this have to do with the Sermon on the Mount? The Sermon on the Mount was given to Israelites, not "new Christians." The first part of his mission is limited to Israel. You are conflating events because you are trying to create a narrative that doesn't exist. Jesus did not give you this option.

In the “Sermon on the Mount” the theme of righteousness is prominent, and even at this early stage of the ministry the note of opposition is struck between Jesus and the Pharisees, who are designated as “the hypocrites” (Mt 6:2, 5, 16). The righteousness of his disciples must surpass that of the scribes and Pharisees; otherwise, in spite of their alleged following of Jesus, they will not enter into the kingdom of heaven (Mt 5:20). Righteousness means doing the will of the heavenly Father (Mt 7:21), and his will is proclaimed in a manner that is startling to all who have identified it with the law of Moses. The antitheses of the Sermon (Mt 5:2148) both accept (Mt 5:2130, 4348) and reject (Mt 5:3142) elements of that law, and in the former case the understanding of the law’s demands is deepened and extended. The antitheses are the best commentary on the meaning of Jesus’ claim that he has come not to abolish but to fulfill the law (Mt 5:17). What is meant by fulfillment of the law is not the demand to keep it exactly as it stood before the coming of Jesus, but rather his bringing the law to be a lasting expression of the will of God, and in that fulfillment there is much that will pass away. Should this appear contradictory to his saying that “until heaven and earth pass away” not even the smallest part of the law will pass (Mt 5:18), that time of fulfillment is not the dissolution of the universe but the coming of the new age, which will occur with Jesus’ death and resurrection. While righteousness in the new age will continue to mean conduct that is in accordance with the law, it will be conduct in accordance with the law as expounded and interpreted by Jesus (cf. Mt 28:20, “…all that I have commanded you”).

Though Jesus speaks harshly about the Pharisees in the Sermon, his judgment is not solely a condemnation of them. The Pharisees are portrayed as a negative example for his disciples, and his condemnation of those who claim to belong to him while disobeying his word is no less severe (Mt 7:2123, 2627).

In Mt 4:23 a summary statement of Jesus’ activity speaks not only of his teaching and proclaiming the gospel but of his “curing every disease and illness among the people”; this is repeated almost verbatim in Mt 9:35. The narrative section that follows the Sermon on the Mount (Mt 8:19:38) is composed principally of accounts of those merciful deeds of Jesus, but it is far from being simply a collection of stories about miraculous cures. The nature of the community that Jesus will establish is shown; it will always be under the protection of him whose power can deal with all dangers (Mt 8:2327), but it is only for those who are prepared to follow him at whatever cost (Mt 8:1622), not only believing Israelites but Gentiles who have come to faith in him (Mt 8:1012). The disciples begin to have some insight, however imperfect, into the mystery of Jesus’ person. They wonder about him whom “the winds and the sea obey” (Mt 8:27), and they witness his bold declaration of the forgiveness of the paralytic’s sins (Mt 9:2). That episode of the narrative moves on two levels. When the crowd sees the cure that testifies to the authority of Jesus, the Son of Man, to forgive sins (Mt 9:6), they glorify God “who had given such authority to human beings” (Mt 9:8). The forgiveness of sins is now not the prerogative of Jesus alone but of “human beings,” that is, of the disciples who constitute the community of Jesus, the church. The ecclesial character of this narrative section could hardly be more plainly indicated.

The end of the section prepares for the discourse on the church’s mission (Mt 10:542). Jesus is moved to pity at the sight of the crowds who are like sheep without a shepherd (Mt 9:36), and he sends out the twelve disciples to make the proclamation with which his own ministry began, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Mt 10:7; cf. Mt 4:17), and to drive out demons and cure the sick as he has done (Mt 10:1). Their mission is limited to Israel (Mt 10:56) as Jesus’ own was (Mt 15:24), yet in Mt 15:16 that perspective broadens and the discourse begins to speak of the mission that the disciples will have after the resurrection and of the severe persecution that will attend it (Mt 10:18). Again, the discourse moves on two levels: that of the time of Jesus and that of the time of the church.
the Romans hated Pharisees because the Pharisees did not appreciate ROMAN CULTURE----like those wonderful entertainments of feeding people to lions for lunch
 
24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise. And Jesus didn't give you the option of holy man. He is either who he claimed he is or he is a mad man. There's no middle ground.

So what was the meaning of him walking on water? Because you don't believe the manuscripts meant he really walked on water, right? Even though that's exactly what they recorded.
ROFLMAO @ 24,000 manuscripts
 
the Romans hated Pharisees because the Pharisees did not appreciate ROMAN CULTURE----like those wonderful entertainments of feeding people to lions for lunch
I don't like Pharisees either, but that doesn't mean I can walk on water, cure leprosy, blindness and raise the dead.
 
Yeah, crazy, huh. Probably the most documented history of someone who lived 2000 years ago.
written long after the fact and by people who had no idea------the REAL LIFE STORY OF ANASTASIA is more
reliable
 
you have no idea what a pharisee is
Do you know any personally?

In the “Sermon on the Mount” the theme of righteousness is prominent, and even at this early stage of the ministry the note of opposition is struck between Jesus and the Pharisees, who are designated as “the hypocrites” (Mt 6:2, 5, 16).
 
written long after the fact and by people who had no idea------the REAL LIFE STORY OF ANASTASIA is more
reliable
The earliest was written within 25 years after the Crucifixion which was remarkably short for a historical event in antiquity. You should do some research on how many texts historical events in antiquity were based upon, how soon they were written after the event and how accurate the copies were. Nothing can compare to the historical account of Christ. Not even close.
 
Liberation theology is effectively socialism. Socialism is the antithesis of self determination.

No, "Liberation theology" says to stop stealing from others.
What they then make for themselves, after you stop stealing from them, is up to them.

Nor is socialism at all the antithesis of self determination.
For example, my uncles in Kansas needed a grain elevator so farmers could get their product onto trains.
The local farmers proposed and voted to pay for one out of their local taxes.
Now the farmers can get more for their grain.
That was both socialism and self determination.
Groups can do more than individuals, but individuals have to propose, organize, agree, and pay for group assets.
 
24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise. And Jesus didn't give you the option of holy man. He is either who he claimed he is or he is a mad man. There's no middle ground.

So what was the meaning of him walking on water? Because you don't believe the manuscripts meant he really walked on water, right? Even though that's exactly what they recorded.

What 24,000 manuscripts?
 
No, "Liberation theology" says to stop stealing from others.
What they then make for themselves, after you stop stealing from them, is up to them.

Nor is socialism at all the antithesis of self determination.
For example, my uncles in Kansas needed a grain elevator so farmers could get their product onto trains.
The local farmers proposed and voted to pay for one out of their local taxes.
Now the farmers can get more for their grain.
That was both socialism and self determination.
Groups can do more than individuals, but individuals have to propose, organize, agree, and pay for group assets.
Liberation theology is socialism. Socialism is a subtle narcotic which destroys the spirit of man. It's pure evil.
 
You are very confused. Christians have not tried GENOCIDE against muslims nor have jews tried genocide against christians

Wrong.
The Crusades were attempted genocide against Moslems, and they massacred tens of thousands of both Moslems and Jews.
Happened again not too long ago in Serbia, Croatia, and Bosnia.
If Jews did not attempt genocide against Christians, then they would not have caused Jesus to be killed.
 
The earliest was written within 25 years after the Crucifixion which was remarkably short for a historical event in antiquity. You should do some research on how many texts historical events in antiquity were based upon, how soon they were written after the event and how accurate the copies were. Nothing can compare to the historical account of Christ. Not even close.

The shortest I have ever heard anyone claim was about 250 years.
I do not believe your 25 years.
That would be before the Romans kicked the Jews out even.
Not likely.
Christianity did not take hold and get any written accounts until Constatine or Justinian.
 
The shortest I have ever heard anyone claim was about 250 years.
I do not believe your 25 years.
That would be before the Romans kicked the Jews out even.
Not likely.
Christianity did not take hold and get any written accounts until Constatine or Justinian.
You will just have to research it for yourself like I did and then you will know for sure ;)
 
Really? Where are they?
I'm really surprised you don't know anything about them. You must be embarrassed right about now.

What exactly do you believe the NT is based upon? Hieroglyphics? Smoke signals? Telepathy?
 

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