Zone1 Do humans need the option to choose violence to stay sane?

[Anomalism]

Hmm, in that case, if you didn't have a choice, you would go mad, but still have no choice. If you have no choice but to do violence, you will do violence whether mad or not.

I think the dignity of being able to choose good over evil yourself, rather than being forced, is heavier than most people would realize until the choice was gone. I think we'd all go nuts.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I think the dignity of being able to choose good yourself, rather than being forced, is heavier than most people would realize until it was gone. I think we'd all go nuts.

I'd be inclined to agree.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I misread your premise.

But the answer remains the same. Pent-up violent intent will cause anyone to go insane. If you do go insane, violently so, you would simply not be violent even if your mind and being wanted to do otherwise.

The more I think about it, the more it freaks me out.

 

[shockedcanadian]

If humans didnt engage in violence they would just engage in other activities that stimulate the same parts of the brain. See my first post in this thread that outlines this.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I was thinking about the future, about the possibility that someday AI could become so advanced that it could instantly subdue humans before they had the capability to commit violence. That would effectively stop all violence everywhere. The more I thought about it though, I got this eerie feeling.

Would you go mad? Knowing there was an invisible dominant force that completely removed your ability to commit violence in any context? Is moral behavior still meaningful if we remove the ability to choose wrong? How important is our ability to choose to be good?

Humans would be non-essential by this point. They could just put down those violent humans, solve all the AI's problems

 

[Anomalism]

The more I think about it, the more it freaks me out.

That's how it was for me. It sounds great on paper, no violence, but the more you think about it a sense of dystopian doom starts to set in.

 

[Crepitus]

I think you're kind of missing the point.

I do not agree.

 

[Anomalism]

I do not agree.

Not surprised.

 

[Crepitus]

Oh? Not even by a world scale AI with capability and reach beyond what you can comprehend? You sure? Use your imagination.

My imagination has nothing to do with it. It's human nature. even if you have a society where everyone has everything they could possibly need or want there will still be malcontents and they will find a way to outsmart the system.

Are you familiar with Neal Asher's Polity novels? They describe exactly the world you are speculating about and it's flaws.

 

[Anomalism]

My imagination has nothing to do with it. It's human nature. even if you have a society where everyone has everything they could possibly need or want there will still be malcontents and they will find a way to outsmart the system.

Are you familiar with Neal Asher's Polity novels? They describe exactly the world you are speculating about and it's flaws.

Yes, people would try to find ways to rebel, because they would be going mad. Congratulations on arriving at and agreeing with the point, whether you realize that's what you did or not. Lol

No dishonor in taking the scenic route.

 

[Crepitus]

Yes, people would try to find ways to rebel, because they would be going mad. Congratulations on arriving at and agreeing with the point, whether you realize that's what you did or not. Lol

No dishonor in taking the scenic route.

Would they be going mad, or were they already that way, or is that just human nature?

 

[Anomalism]

Would they be going mad, or were they already that way, or is that just human nature?

It would certainly amplify any madness that already existed at the very least.

See?

Now we're having a conversation. I don't have all of the perfect answers. That's why I'm here, to talk about it.

You think humans are already mad, and that's what would create the problem?

I tend to lean toward it being human nature. Morality is meaningless if we can't choose to do good. That's the difference between freedom and a muzzle.

I think the loss of choice would make us crazy.

 

[Anomalism]

Humans would be non-essential by this point. They could just put down those violent humans, solve all the AI's problems

I think it's less about violence and more about choice. Even people that aren't violent would feel the weight of losing the right to choose for themselves.

Morality is meaningless without choice. In a sense we wouldn't even be human anymore. I think it would weigh on just about everybody.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I think it's less about violence and more about choice. Even people that aren't violent would feel the weight of losing the right to choose for themselves.

Morality is meaningless without choice. In a sense we wouldn't even be human anymore. I think it would weigh on just about everybody.

I'm not that sure. Check out China, there's very little choice going on there for a lot of people. They just stick their heads into Douyin (TikTok) and become robots.

 

[Anomalism]

I'm not that sure. Check out China, there's very little choice going on there for a lot of people. They just stick their heads into Douyin (TikTok) and become robots.

It hasn't reached singularity levels of control though. They still have agency, choice.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It hasn't reached singularity levels of control though. They still have agency, choice.

They do. However they've been denied the education that allows them to think for themselves. They've been put in a work environment where thinking for yourself is either dangerous or detrimental.

They have choices, to a certain extent, but those choices are really important.

 

[Anomalism]

They do. However they've been denied the education that allows them to think for themselves. They've been put in a work environment where thinking for yourself is either dangerous or detrimental.

They have choices, to a certain extent, but those choices are really important.

And I would be willing to bet that it impacts their psychological framework somehow. Would you agree?

Bring it to singularity levels and you might induce insanity.

 

[frigidweirdo]

And I would be willing to bet that it impacts their psychological framework somehow. Would you agree?

Bring it to singularity levels and you might induce insanity.

Yes, it changes how people decide to function in life. Will it lead to insanity? In some, perhaps, but most will just watch their screens and listen to the canned laughter. Most will be happy with that.

Look at religion, that's about telling people how to live their lives. A lot of people want to be told what to do. Some hate it.

 

[Anomalism]

Yes, it changes how people decide to function in life. Will it lead to insanity? In some, perhaps, but most will just watch their screens and listen to the canned laughter. Most will be happy with that.

Look at religion, that's about telling people how to live their lives. A lot of people want to be told what to do. Some hate it.

Even if you are told what to do you still get to decide.

We choose to do the right thing, to do our best. Nobody forces us to do that. It has weight because it's real. Because we choose that, even when we didn't have to, even when it's hard. Choice matters. Without choice it doesn't mean anything.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Even if you are told what to do you still get to decide.

We choose to do the right thing, to do our best. Nobody forces us to do that. It has weight because it's real. Because we choose that, even when we didn't have to, even when it's hard. Choice matters. Without choice it doesn't mean anything.

The thing is, people can be manipulated into doing things. And that's what's happening. Your body manipulates you, government manipulate, bosses manipulate. The whole time, when do you really have a choice?