Do European Leaders Want the Russia/Ukraine War to Continue, in Order to Weaken Russia?

[Kruska]

The process wasn't halted it was suspended, as for joining the EU it would have meant IMF rules and crippling austerity for the people, and there were no Russian troops in Ukraine in 2014 stop repeating that nonsense.

Halted or suspended - at the end of the day it bore the same result.
And stop propagating that nonsense aka LIE about no Russian troops having been in Ukraine in 2014.

As for "crippling austerity", any former Warsaw-Pact state and now EU member's economy will prove you wrong.

The entire "problem" with e.g. Ukraine, was that Russia simply was to weak in military and economic terms to "enforce" the Alma Ata CIS Deceleration - thus giving the USA the chance to head East under Bush sen. thus enabling the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, then under Clinton.

After that - at least to me - everything else that was to come, was foreseeable. Especially in view of Putin's speech at the German Parliament in Sept. 2001.

 

[Ringo]

The UN should then in about 2 years time hold a referendum - regarding the status of Crimea, Donbass & Luhansk.

Kosovo, hypocrite, Kosovo!

 

[Kruska]

Kosovo, hypocrite, Kosovo!

Oh - there are many places not just Kosovo. Scotland & Basques want's to get out too.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Really?? where did Yanukovych run off to - and where has he been since??
Anyway it's a known FACT that Yanukovych was Putin's puppy - whilst others were NATO and EU puppies.

“Puppies?” That is your idea of factual information?

Russia/Putin has disavowed EVERY single treaty with Ukraine - so what would be the difference??

An excellent point - IF - it were I who said there would be a “peace treaty.” But it was you.

What will stop the war is a cease fire agreement, followed by a multi- national pan-European peacekeeping force moving into unoccupied parts of Ukraine.

France and the UK have both indicated a willingness to step up. Others may follow.

It all depends if the EU and possibly Trump, will call Putin's nuke bluff or not. Since on the conventional part, Russia's Armed Forces got nothing to offer of value. Furthermore you seem to totally forget CHINA - they are faaaar more interested in collecting billions of $$ via trade - instead of the EU blowing billions of $$ into military expenditure.

I don’t care what China wants France to spend their money on. Is there a reason I should?

IMO - and I had stated that already latest since 1994 - Ukraine needs to be NEUTRAL

They are an invaded country. It is too late for them to be neutral now. They need strong allies who will protect them. Otherwise, they will be a third rate Russian territory.

Protection comes at a price, that Zelenskyy is at the moment unwilling to pay.

with solid security backings by the USA.

The U.S. is too distant and too disinterested to be Ukraine’s benevolent protector. Europe is best suited for that role, given the EU economic and military power.

As for the present situation, Putin aka Russia has to pull out ENTIRELY from Ukraine - that includes Crimea. they don't need to waste their time with discussions about reparations paid by Russia, since - the USA starting with Bush, had caused this entire mess.

What is Russia’s motivation to pullout? What will they gain, or what would they lose if they stay?

The UN should then in about 2 years time hold a referendum - regarding the status of Crimea, Donbass & Luhansk.

Has that ever worked in forcing an invader to give up territory?

Depends onto where Trump and his $$ minions are more likely to see their future business profits.
Right now in parallel to Ukraine's minerals they are already progressing onto getting their hands onto the Nord-Stream 2 pipeline - in anticipation that Germany and the EU might draw their gas again from Russia.

That part is pure speculation?

 

[Kruska]

That part is pure speculation?

Nope - hard facts. Check it out for yourself and don't hesitate to send me a link, when you found it.

BTW - what makes you think/believe that Putin is going to agree to a ceasefire???
Because YOUR felon told you so??

 

[Ringo]

Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk said that security guarantees to Kiev were not discussed at the meeting in London.

Now their absence is Zelensky's main claim.
It turns out that they just got together to eat. The Baltics are offended, they were not invited.

Sorry... ️ but it looks like this - The EU wants to challenge the US, Russia and China over the Ukraine... I'm afraid Europe has never taken such a beating in its history

 

[ShahdagMountains]

European leaders?

Are there any?

 

[Deadstick]

Halted or suspended - at the end of the day it bore the same result.
And stop propagating that nonsense aka LIE about no Russian troops having been in Ukraine in 2014.

As for "crippling austerity", any former Warsaw-Pact state and now EU member's economy will prove you wrong.

The entire "problem" with e.g. Ukraine, was that Russia simply was to weak in military and economic terms to "enforce" the Alma Ata CIS Deceleration - thus giving the USA the chance to head East under Bush sen. thus enabling the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, then under Clinton.

After that - at least to me - everything else that was to come, was foreseeable. Especially in view of Putin's speech at the German Parliament in Sept. 2001.

It isn't nonsense the Russians were not there in 2014 it was a civil war as you well know but you have to double down on that lie or your whole argument falls to pieces, Budapest memorandum was between the Russians and the Clinton mob, Ukraine never had any nuclear weapons they were under the Control of the Soviets, after the coup in 2014 all bets were off it changed everything.

 

[Deadstick]

Thats why they supported Al Qaeda and a whole bunch of other head hacking savages in Syria and Libya, disgusting.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Nope - hard facts. Check it out for yourself and don't hesitate to send me a link, when you found it.

You’re making the claim, it’s not up to me to find backup for it.

BTW - what makes you think/believe that Putin is going to agree to a ceasefire???
Because YOUR felon told you so??

They might not.

If not, then that is justification for France and the UK to cry havoc and let slip the DOGS OF WAR!

Their mighty militaries should make short work of the already weakened, depleted, and demoralized Russian forces.

Or maybe they’ll just say “hard cheese, old boy! We’re too busy right now to help. Perhaps a letter to Canada? Faw, faw, faw!”

That last part would be France.

The US has no obligation to help. We’ve only helped as much as we have already because it was so profitable for American politicians and lobbyists.

 

[Ringo]

My most vindicated opinion of all time is that Russia should have gone into not just Crimea, but the entirety of the Ukraine in early 2014. So many people would still be alive, so many towns would still be standing, so much evil would have been prevented.

There's literally zero argument to be made why allowing evil to take root and innocents to suffer for eight years has made things better. It was both immoral and stupid not to invade in 2014.

 

[Deadstick]

My most vindicated opinion of all time is that Russia should have gone into not just Crimea, but the entirety of the Ukraine in early 2014. So many people would still be alive, so many towns would still be standing, so much evil would have been prevented.

There's literally zero argument to be made why allowing evil to take root and innocents to suffer for eight years has made things better. It was both immoral and stupid not to invade in 2014.

You are totally correct, that is one thing i do blame Putin for he did right in the end but many people were dead by then, it took the Russians years before they even recognized the breakaway Republics, there are probably those in the Russian military who would take a much harder line than Putin.

 

[Kruska]

It isn't nonsense the Russians were not there in 2014 it was a civil war as you well know but you have to double down on that lie or your whole argument falls to pieces, Budapest memorandum was between the Russians and the Clinton mob, Ukraine never had any nuclear weapons they were under the Control of the Soviets, after the coup in 2014 all bets were off it changed everything.

Ukrainians up to the level of generals - where part of the manned Russian nuke force, stationed in part in Ukraine as well as Belarus.
Therefore they had (proven) access and control over entire nuke units - right down to mobile, silo, naval and Air-force units.
In 1993 Ukraine refused to hand over those nukes stationed on Ukrainian territory to Russia - resulting into the Trilateral Process aka the Massandra Summit. Ending into the Trilateral Statement and accompanying annex, signed by Kravchuk, Yelstin and U.S. President Bill Clinton in Moscow on January 14, 1994.

Furthermore as you very well know - the Ukraine had never signed nor ratified the Alma Ata CIS following CIS Charter in 1993 - but simple had voluntarily adhered to its content.

You can try to whitewash Russia's actions as much as you want to - it doesn't change the core fact - that Russia (a signatory to international Law) had therefore illegally occupied Crimea and had send Russian Armed Forces troops (not just ex Russian military and "Instructors" (illegally) in increasing numbers into the ARC. See e.g. Council of Ministers of Foreign Affairs of the CIS, held in Kyiv on 7th March 2014.
Just as those Green Berets & Air America personal in Vietnam before 1965 didn't just instruct and support - but actively took part in combat.

You believe that if e.g. Jordan would occupy parts of the West-bank - supporting the PLO and its armed militias against Zionist aggression and Jewish settlers killing off Palestinian civilians, whilst sending in own Jordanian troops with their equipment - that Israel and the world (foremost represented by the USA) aside from China, would simply accept this ???

 

[Deadstick]

Ukrainians up to the level of generals - where part of the manned Russian nuke force, stationed in part in Ukraine as well as Belarus.
Therefore they had (proven) access and control over entire nuke units - right down to mobile, silo, naval and Air-force units.
In 1993 Ukraine refused to hand over those nukes stationed on Ukrainian territory to Russia - resulting into the Trilateral Process aka the Massandra Summit. Ending into the Trilateral Statement and accompanying annex, signed by Kravchuk, Yelstin and U.S. President Bill Clinton in Moscow on January 14, 1994.

Furthermore as you very well know - the Ukraine had never signed nor ratified the Alma Ata CIS following CIS Charter in 1993 - but simple had voluntarily adhered to its content.

You can try to whitewash Russia's actions as much as you want to - it doesn't change the core fact - that Russia (a signatory to international Law) had therefore illegally occupied Crimea and had send Russian Armed Forces troops (not just ex Russian military and "Instructors" (illegally) in increasing numbers into the ARC. See e.g. Council of Ministers of Foreign Affairs of the CIS, held in Kyiv on 7th March 2014.
Just as those Green Berets & Air America personal in Vietnam before 1965 didn't just instruct and support - but actively took part in combat.

You believe that if e.g. Jordan would occupy parts of the West-bank - supporting the PLO and its armed militias against Zionist aggression and Jewish settlers killing off Palestinian civilians, whilst sending in own Jordanian troops with their equipment - that Israel and the world (foremost represented by the USA) aside from China, would simply accept this ???

You can spin like a top all you want, as i said once the 2014 Coup with western support took place all bets were off and many Ukrainian troops went over to support Russia like in Crimea where most of the naval forces went over to Russia, you can't change the facts to how you would like them to be.

 

[Kruska]

You can spin like a top all you want, as i said once the 2014 Coup with western support took place all bets were off and many Ukrainian troops went over to support Russia like in Crimea where most of the naval forces went over to Russia, you can't change the facts to how you would like them to be.

Even a claimed "Western sponsored coup" - doesn't give Russia any right whatsoever to attack a SOVEREIGN country.
The internal affairs of a sovereign country, also do not justify a foreign country to launch a military attack - as simple as that.

Had Ukraine been a NATO member - Putin could have done NOTHING about it, in military terms.

So you can spin it around as much as you want, you can't change FACTS - Russia/Putin is the proven AGGRESSOR, who at present is supported by the USA.
Over and out.

 

[Deadstick]

Even a claimed "Western sponsored coup" - doesn't give Russia any right whatsoever to attack a SOVEREIGN country.
The internal affairs of a sovereign country, also do not justify a foreign country to launch a military attack - as simple as that.

Had Ukraine been a NATO member - Putin could have done NOTHING about it, in military terms.

So you can spin it around as much as you want, you can't change FACTS - Russia/Putin is the proven AGGRESSOR, who at present is supported by the USA.
Over and out.

A sovereign Country? as seen by the Coup not claimed just a fact, if the Ukrainian post Coup regime posed a threat to the security of Russia they had every right to intervene, the US appointed thug Yatsenuk would have handed the Russian naval base in Crimea over to the US/NATO that is why Russia acted and don't fool yourself into believing if Ukraine had been in NATO Russia couldn't do anything about it, that is the arrogant and delusional thinking that has led to where we are now.

 

[Kruska]

A sovereign Country? as seen by the Coup not claimed just a fact, if the Ukrainian post Coup regime posed a threat to the security of Russia they had every right to intervene, the US appointed thug Yatsenuk would have handed the Russian naval base in Crimea over to the US/NATO that is why Russia acted and don't fool yourself into believing if Ukraine had been in NATO Russia couldn't do anything about it, that is the arrogant and delusional thinking that has led to where we are now.

No - the arrogant and delusional mindset of Putin, and ALL US administrations since Bush sen. led us to where we are now.

Putin got national security concerns? - talk to the UN - and file your case (that is what they are for)
Putin wants to handle national security concerns via, violation of international law - face the wrath or anger of the world.
Simple as that.

BTW, had Obama, and Trump acted accordingly - Putin would have been found dead under some tree in Siberia latest by 2020.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Litwin]

Kosovo, hypocrite, Kosovo!

Kosovo, genocidal BEAST , ivan , Kosovo!

UNDER ORDERS: War Crimes in Kosovo - 1. Executive Summary

www.hrw.org

UNDER ORDERS: War Crimes in Kosovo

www.hrw.org

War crimes in the Kosovo War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Litwin]