Diebold admits programming flaw

[Caligirl]

A flaw that drops votes in larger (urban, democratic) jurisdictions!

Did you see the news that Diebold election systems has finally admitted a code error (it's been in the electronic vote machines for ten years!!!) that drops votes???? I wonder how long they have known about it, and how long they have been trying to hide it. I guess it depends if the code glitch was intentional or not! If it's intentional, is it treason?

This is democracy, right? Or at least our votes should count! I cannot believe this.


A voting system used in 34 states contains a critical programming error that can cause votes to be dropped while being electronically transferred from memory cards to a central tallying point, the manufacturer acknowledges.

The problem was identified after complaints from Ohio elections officials following the March primary there, but the logic error that is the root of the problem has been part of the software for 10 years, said Chris Riggall, a spokesman for Premier Election Solutions, formerly known as Diebold.

The flawed software is on both touch screen and optical scan voting machines made by Premier and the problem with vote counts is most likely to affect larger jurisdictions that feed many memory cards to a central counting database rapidly.


Kerry would of done better in large municipalities, and Obama is expected to do better there too. The republicans do better in small towns, where the bug isn't a problem. !!!

The stuff in blue is in the Washington Post but it's totally all over the news. AP, USA today, NYT, everywhere.

Here's a free web video that is GREAT and worth your time if you care about a fair election. It's at www and then:

freeforall.tv

but I can't post a url because I just joined. Type in www then freeforall.tv and watch the video, it's really engrossing.

And no, I am not opposed to McCain! I think we have the two best candidates possible from the origninal primary fields! If Hillary had won the nomination I would of considered voting for McCain! But that said, no true american would stand by without caring if a CORPORATION was determining the election results!!!

I hope some conversation gets going on this so we can figure out who cooked which results!

 

[jillian]

I think this is the link to your article....

Ohio Voting Machines Contained Programming Error That Dropped Votes | The Trail | washingtonpost.com

 

[Caligirl]

Ya that's the one! What are your thoughts?

And, why is it that people can go on all day about a nonissue like <insert hot button topic here> but won't touch the issue of whether whether the machines are throwing elections? is it that this is too big and people don't want to face a flaw so fundamental to our democracy?

 

[Chris]

Ya that's the one! What are your thoughts?

And, why is it that people can go on all day about a nonissue like <insert hot button topic here> but won't touch the issue of whether whether the machines are throwing elections? is it that this is too big and people don't want to face a flaw so fundamental to our democracy?

Electronic voting machines will be the end of American democracy.

There is no way to trace the cheating.

 

[dilloduck]

Electronic voting machines will be the end of American democracy.

There is no way to trace the cheating.

Then don't use them.

 

[42Presidents]

If all of this is found to be true and votes were dropped, then it is a travesty. I surely wouldn't be quick to make any assumptions but whose votes were dropped. If they were, I would think votes from both sides would have been lost.

The voting system needs to be tightly managed and it needs people running it who can be objective. Too often it seems we have people running these operations that have a personal stake at what the results are.

 

[glockmail]

Mechanical voting machines have been used for years and I don’t recall anyone questioning them.

There are three things that need to be done in order to make these electronic machines fool proof.

1. Develop a paper backup to record each vote. This can be a one-line summary, visible to the voter after registering the votes, before confirming them.
2. The summary information should then be downloadable to precinct staff in generic .csv format. They can then use this data to verify the vote totals from each machine.
3. Send vote totals electronically to the County Board of Elections who then don’t register them until they perform a telephone confirmation with the precinct staff.

 

[Care4all]

Mechanical voting machines have been used for years and I don’t recall anyone questioning them.

There are three things that need to be done in order to make these electronic machines fool proof.

1. Develop a paper backup to record each vote. This can be a one-line summary, visible to the voter after registering the votes, before confirming them.
2. The summary information should then be downloadable to precinct staff in generic .csv format. They can then use this data to verify the vote totals from each machine.
3. Send vote totals electronically to the County Board of Elections who then don’t register them until they perform a telephone confirmation with the precinct staff.

BINGO! this seems so simple, an easy solution!

 

[Caligirl]

Mechanical voting machines have been used for years and I don&#8217;t recall anyone questioning them.

Yep! Widescale fraud ain't easy on mechanical machines.

Electronic on the other hand, boy oh boy. Look at this document that has a running tally of all the glitches with Diebold:

votersunite. org (backslash) info (backslash) Dieboldinthenews. pdf

(You'll have to type www and the address since I can't post urls)

1. Develop a paper backup to record each vote. This can be a one-line summary, visible to the voter after registering the votes, before confirming them.
2. The summary information should then be downloadable to precinct staff in generic .csv format. They can then use this data to verify the vote totals from each machine.
3. Send vote totals electronically to the County Board of Elections who then don&#8217;t register them until they perform a telephone confirmation with the precinct staff.

1. Recalls are expensive and aren't automatic, or done completely (only 3% of ohio votes were recounted) if error is considered minimal, in other words a hack that shifts the votes by 1% would not be grounds for a recall. But 1% shift can throw a close election.

2. Agreed. But useless in the absence of a paper trail, as there is no way to verify an electronic total that is false.

3. Seems reasonable, unfortunately as things are done now the tallies from all over the country (for any particular vendor) are sent to a central tabulating facility, which happens to be owned by the same partisan group that owns the machines (in all cases, republican.)

 

[Paulie]

Then don't use them.

Wouldn't it be nice to have that choice when you show up at your precinct?

It's always been beyond me how we could allow our election system to be outsourced to private companies who may or may not be in bed with politicians who rely on that very system for their careers.

In just about every voting precinct, I'll put good money on it that there would be MORE than enough people willing to volunteer their time to hand count paper ballots.

It's frustrating to press a button, and HOPE your vote wasn't lost in some "malfunction". You don't even get a receipt for your vote. There's virtually no way to prove who you even voted for.

 

[CA95380]

Mechanical voting machines have been used for years and I don’t recall anyone questioning them.

There are three things that need to be done in order to make these electronic machines fool proof.

1. Develop a paper backup to record each vote. This can be a one-line summary, visible to the voter after registering the votes, before confirming them.
2. The summary information should then be downloadable to precinct staff in generic .csv format. They can then use this data to verify the vote totals from each machine.
3. Send vote totals electronically to the County Board of Elections who then don’t register them until they perform a telephone confirmation with the precinct staff.

Huh? You do not remember the "Hanging Chads"? They were not talking about Klingons .... doncha ya know.
Hanging Chads: As the Florida Recount Implodes, the Supreme Court Decides Bush v. Gore - US News and World Report

 

[CA95380]

And, why is it that people can go on all day about a nonissue like <insert hot button topic here> but won't touch the issue of whether whether the machines are throwing elections? is it that this is too big and people don't want to face a flaw so fundamental to our democracy?

Not all people are interested in the same thing. Different strokes for different folks. That is why we are provided different sections of the message board, music, food, humor, etc. Good plan if you ask me.

 

[Care4all]

Ya that's the one! What are your thoughts?

And, why is it that people can go on all day about a nonissue like <insert hot button topic here> but won't touch the issue of whether whether the machines are throwing elections? is it that this is too big and people don't want to face a flaw so fundamental to our democracy?

now is the time to look at it and bring up the issue...a time when those on both sides of the aisle have something at stake for getting it made right....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

2000 Florida is why we RUSHED to embrace electronic machines, at the INSISTANCE of the Democrats whining they were cheated.

You all created a fake problem and then demanded a solution you now claim is more flawed. I notice no democrats were crying foul in 2006 though. I wonder when THAT will be investigated?

 

[Care4all]

2000 Florida is why we RUSHED to embrace electronic machines, at the INSISTANCE of the Democrats whining they were cheated.

You all created a fake problem and then demanded a solution you now claim is more flawed. I notice no democrats were crying foul in 2006 though. I wonder when THAT will be investigated?

i believe, in several cases, it is being investigated....i'll try to find some links regarding foul play....

 

[Jeepers]

Foul play or not it was odd that the exit polls were way off... my Diebold ATM has never screwed up or failed to give me a reciept.. granted I wouldnt mind a software glitch adding a few zeros here or there...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Foul play or not it was odd that the exit polls were way off... my Diebold ATM has never screwed up or failed to give me a reciept.. granted I wouldnt mind a software glitch adding a few zeros here or there...

Already explained. But then you don't like reality when it does not support your pet theory and let you claim some great conspiracy.

 

[Caligirl]

I would be interested to know where the concerns were in 2006, that the machines had thrown the elections (presumably to democrats). Which races were thought to be funny?

 

[glockmail]

Huh? You do not remember the "Hanging Chads"? They were not talking about Klingons .... doncha ya know.
Hanging Chads: As the Florida Recount Implodes, the Supreme Court Decides Bush v. Gore - US News and World Report

For some of us, history goes back more than 10 years.

Also known as the "Myers Automatic Booth," mechanical lever machines made their first appearance in the U.S. at Lockport, N.Y., in 1892. Rochester, New York, used them four years later and soon they were used across New York State. By 1930, residents of most major American cities voted on mechanical machines. In the 1996 presidential elections, however, roughly 20% of all voters used the machines, which are no longer made.

Ballots | History and Types of Election Ballots &mdash; Infoplease.com

 

[DiveCon]

have they found proof that the errors favored one candidate more so than any other?