Did You Claim Democrats Aren't For Illegal Immigration???

[Winston]

Same question, what does property rights have to do with a border? Besides, that is not an argument let alone a moral argument.

"....what does property rights have to do with a border? "


I have to stop saying 'how stupid can you be,' as you appear to take it as a challenge.

Seriouisly, what do property rights have to do with a border. I mean if all the private citizens with land along the border want to put up a fence, at their expense, then they can go for it. But it is absolutely immoral for a country to CONFISCATE that same private land and force TAXPAYERS to finance a fence. What, you got nothing to refute that freedom of movement is an essential part of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? You got nothing to demonstrate how a border does not contradict "all men are created equal"? And tell me, how does a government that usually manages to screw everything up suddenly have the wisdom to determine who should be allowed in and who should be kept out? And tell me, just what type of government can we expect to have if we allow that government to pick and choose it's citizens? Sounds to me like a one way trip to despotism.

What the hell is wrong with the market determining immigration policy? Essentially it already does anyway. The economy is the biggest determinate of immigration, wall or no wall, laws or no laws.

So how about you impressing us with some actual rebuttal instead of stupid quips and ignorant insults. Or you can continue to demonstrate to all that you are nothing more than a copy and paste troll with no ability to actually put together an argument on your own.

My government has a responsibility to at least TRY to keep me safe. Open borders is the opposite of safe.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Oh my god!!! That is soooo profound!

No, seriously though, you arent making a good case for open borders.

If you think your fear is a good case you are delusional.

 

[Godboy]

"....what does property rights have to do with a border? "


I have to stop saying 'how stupid can you be,' as you appear to take it as a challenge.

Seriouisly, what do property rights have to do with a border. I mean if all the private citizens with land along the border want to put up a fence, at their expense, then they can go for it. But it is absolutely immoral for a country to CONFISCATE that same private land and force TAXPAYERS to finance a fence. What, you got nothing to refute that freedom of movement is an essential part of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? You got nothing to demonstrate how a border does not contradict "all men are created equal"? And tell me, how does a government that usually manages to screw everything up suddenly have the wisdom to determine who should be allowed in and who should be kept out? And tell me, just what type of government can we expect to have if we allow that government to pick and choose it's citizens? Sounds to me like a one way trip to despotism.

What the hell is wrong with the market determining immigration policy? Essentially it already does anyway. The economy is the biggest determinate of immigration, wall or no wall, laws or no laws.

So how about you impressing us with some actual rebuttal instead of stupid quips and ignorant insults. Or you can continue to demonstrate to all that you are nothing more than a copy and paste troll with no ability to actually put together an argument on your own.

My government has a responsibility to at least TRY to keep me safe. Open borders is the opposite of safe.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Oh my god!!! That is soooo profound!

No, seriously though, you arent making a good case for open borders.

If you think your fear is a good case you are delusional.

No, fear is very reasonable. Its why we have locks on our doors. You want to unlock ALL the doors, which is ignorant and dangerous.

 

[theHawk]

"You cannot make a moral argument for borders that are not open."

I don't have to, you dunce.......the wall around Obama's mansion speaks volumes.

UPDATE: Wall around Obama's DC home complete! - The American Mirror

Same question, what does property rights have to do with a border? Besides, that is not an argument let alone a moral argument.

"....what does property rights have to do with a border? "


I have to stop saying 'how stupid can you be,' as you appear to take it as a challenge.

Seriouisly, what do property rights have to do with a border. I mean if all the private citizens with land along the border want to put up a fence, at their expense, then they can go for it. But it is absolutely immoral for a country to CONFISCATE that same private land and force TAXPAYERS to finance a fence. What, you got nothing to refute that freedom of movement is an essential part of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? You got nothing to demonstrate how a border does not contradict "all men are created equal"? And tell me, how does a government that usually manages to screw everything up suddenly have the wisdom to determine who should be allowed in and who should be kept out? And tell me, just what type of government can we expect to have if we allow that government to pick and choose it's citizens? Sounds to me like a one way trip to despotism.

What the hell is wrong with the market determining immigration policy? Essentially it already does anyway. The economy is the biggest determinate of immigration, wall or no wall, laws or no laws.

So how about you impressing us with some actual rebuttal instead of stupid quips and ignorant insults. Or you can continue to demonstrate to all that you are nothing more than a copy and paste troll with no ability to actually put together an argument on your own.

My government has a responsibility to at least TRY to keep me safe. Open borders is the opposite of safe.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

We don’t give up any liberties building the wall. It also would bring long term stability and safety to our citizens.

 

[rightwinger]

Democrats support immigration reform
Republucans just support a wall

You support meaningless buzzwords like "immigration reform". Republicans offer real solutions.

Immigration reform
DACA kids
Resolving 12 million illegals already here
Going after employers
Visa reform

A wall does none of that

 

[Godboy]

Democrats support immigration reform
Republucans just support a wall

You support meaningless buzzwords like "immigration reform". Republicans offer real solutions.

Immigration reform
DACA kids
Resolving 12 million illegals already here
Going after employers
Visa reform

A wall does none of that

None of those things stops illegal immigration into the US. Like I said, all you have is buzzwords.

 

[Winston]

Same question, what does property rights have to do with a border? Besides, that is not an argument let alone a moral argument.

"....what does property rights have to do with a border? "


I have to stop saying 'how stupid can you be,' as you appear to take it as a challenge.

Seriouisly, what do property rights have to do with a border. I mean if all the private citizens with land along the border want to put up a fence, at their expense, then they can go for it. But it is absolutely immoral for a country to CONFISCATE that same private land and force TAXPAYERS to finance a fence. What, you got nothing to refute that freedom of movement is an essential part of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? You got nothing to demonstrate how a border does not contradict "all men are created equal"? And tell me, how does a government that usually manages to screw everything up suddenly have the wisdom to determine who should be allowed in and who should be kept out? And tell me, just what type of government can we expect to have if we allow that government to pick and choose it's citizens? Sounds to me like a one way trip to despotism.

What the hell is wrong with the market determining immigration policy? Essentially it already does anyway. The economy is the biggest determinate of immigration, wall or no wall, laws or no laws.

So how about you impressing us with some actual rebuttal instead of stupid quips and ignorant insults. Or you can continue to demonstrate to all that you are nothing more than a copy and paste troll with no ability to actually put together an argument on your own.

My government has a responsibility to at least TRY to keep me safe. Open borders is the opposite of safe.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

We don’t give up any liberties building the wall. It also would bring long term stability and safety to our citizens.

Sure some liberties are given up. Freedom of movement. Which at this point no one has refuted, that freedom of movement is a part of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Nor has anyone even attempted to refute the reality that border walls and closed immigration contradicts "all men are created equal". I mean there are reasons that the founders adopted an open border policy, a reason the constitution says nothing at all about immigration. Ignoring those reasons helps to weaken our standing as a nation more than any flood of immigrants.

 

[Winston]

Seriouisly, what do property rights have to do with a border. I mean if all the private citizens with land along the border want to put up a fence, at their expense, then they can go for it. But it is absolutely immoral for a country to CONFISCATE that same private land and force TAXPAYERS to finance a fence. What, you got nothing to refute that freedom of movement is an essential part of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? You got nothing to demonstrate how a border does not contradict "all men are created equal"? And tell me, how does a government that usually manages to screw everything up suddenly have the wisdom to determine who should be allowed in and who should be kept out? And tell me, just what type of government can we expect to have if we allow that government to pick and choose it's citizens? Sounds to me like a one way trip to despotism.

What the hell is wrong with the market determining immigration policy? Essentially it already does anyway. The economy is the biggest determinate of immigration, wall or no wall, laws or no laws.

So how about you impressing us with some actual rebuttal instead of stupid quips and ignorant insults. Or you can continue to demonstrate to all that you are nothing more than a copy and paste troll with no ability to actually put together an argument on your own.

My government has a responsibility to at least TRY to keep me safe. Open borders is the opposite of safe.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Oh my god!!! That is soooo profound!

No, seriously though, you arent making a good case for open borders.

If you think your fear is a good case you are delusional.

No, fear is very reasonable. Its why we have locks on our doors. You want to unlock ALL the doors, which is ignorant and dangerous.

An open border is not equal to keeping your doors unlocked. But a wall and closed border is equal to locking the doors. Locking the doors to the courthouse, locking the doors to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Locking the doors to the government, of the people, by the people, for the people.

 

[Godboy]

My government has a responsibility to at least TRY to keep me safe. Open borders is the opposite of safe.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Oh my god!!! That is soooo profound!

No, seriously though, you arent making a good case for open borders.

If you think your fear is a good case you are delusional.

No, fear is very reasonable. Its why we have locks on our doors. You want to unlock ALL the doors, which is ignorant and dangerous.

An open border is not equal to keeping your doors unlocked. But a wall and closed border is equal to locking the doors. Locking the doors to the courthouse, locking the doors to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Locking the doors to the government, of the people, by the people, for the people.

WE DONT CARE ABOUT THIRD WORLD SCRUBS! We arent responsible for these people just because they created shithole nations.

 

[satrebil]

What the hell does a border have to do with property rights?

*sigh* Do you really need this explained to you?

Ok.

Your property has borders. You own that property not just because you paid for it but also because a legal infrastructure exists that guarantees your claim to it. Your claim to said property is also defined by physical dimensions to ensure that you don't encroach on someone else's property. If I try and seize or utilize your property without your consent I will be stopped by the municipal forces that have the ability to enforce your claim - namely police and the relevant courts. Without this system myself, Dick, and Harry could boot your ass off your property and claim it as our own. Follow?

Now scale it up. Property rights are ensured by the municipality, which is ensured by the state, which is ensured by the federal government. Our 50 states claimed various amounts of territory in the western hemisphere in specific geographical locations. Our 50 states all contribute money and manpower to a standing army that is administered by the federal government - and that standing army's chief purpose is to protect the sovereignty of the 50 states. If an incursion is made into those states by a non-recognized entity, the army's job is to repel it.

Territory belongs to those with the means to protect and defend it. Borders indicate where that territory ends and someone else's begins. Without borders there is no reason to have a standing army because there is no legally defined area to defend. If there's no legally defined area to defend then there is no country, therefore no union of states, therefore no municipal powers, and therefore NO FUCKING PROPERTY RIGHTS because there is no power to enforce them.

Get it now?

 

[satrebil]

Show me someone who has built a wall around 10,000 acres of land. Then we can talk about walling in a country

*AHEM*

 

[PoliticalChic]

Of course they are.

1. In the mid-60s the Democrat Party decided that the American public doesn't and won't endorse their insane policies.....and decided the answer was to replace the voting populace with a more malleable one.

Democrats knew what they were doing when they passed the 1965 immigration law that altered the flow from European immigrants to the flood from third world nations.

" Prior to 1965, the demographics of immigration stood as mostly Europeans; 68 percent of legal immigrants in the 1950s came from Europe and Canada.

The proponents of the [Democrat] Hart–Celler Act argued that it would not significantly influence United States culture. [Democrat] President Johnson called the bill "not a revolutionary bill. It does not affect the lives of millions."[16] [Democrat] Secretary of StateDean Rusk and other politicians, including [Democrat] Senator Ted Kennedy, asserted that the bill would not affect US demographic mix.[17] However, the ethnic composition of immigrants changed following the passage of the law.[18][19] Specifically, the [Democrat] Hart–Celler Act allowed increased numbers of people to migrate to the United States from Asia, Africa, the Middle East, and Southern and Eastern Europe." Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 - Wikipedia




2. There is an economic component here. Until America became a welfare state, there was no reason to stem the flow of immigrants.....any immigrants.
They came to work, for opportunity, not to be bought by the Democrats and told that they would be recompensed if they would just vote....illegally, and the 'right' way....as Obama told them to.

Milton Friedman was for illegal immigration.
"Friedman's considered view is that free migration without a welfare state is first best.
Welfare for all legal residents makes first-best free migration impossible. In that case, a high rate of illegal immigration is the second-best solution."
Milton Friedman's Argument for Illegal Immigration


Sooo....either open borders but no welfare in the country....or control of our borders but no welfare in the country.

Interesting economic choice?




3. It is difficult for Democrats to deny that they are for illegal immigration, open borders, when this headline appears today in their house organ, the NYTimes:

"There’s Nothing Wrong With Open Borders
.....a brave Democrat.....

I’m talking about opening up America’s borders to everyone who wants to move here.
...not just opposing President Trump’s wall but also opposing the nation’s cruel and expensive immigration and border-security apparatus in its entirety. Imagine radically shifting our stance toward outsiders from one of suspicion to one of warm embrace."
Opinion | There’s Nothing Wrong With Open Borders




.....as though those of us who work and earn and pay taxes would not have to shoulder the burden.
The party that shares the aims of Karl Marx are actually demanding that American workers bind themselves with the chains that Marx promised would be removed.

Clearly, Democrats are not the party for Americans.

You cannot make a moral argument for borders that are not open. Freedom of movement is a basic human right that is inherent in "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". Borders are a direct contradiction to "all men are created equal" because by definition some people are more "equal" than other people completely dependent upon where they popped out of the womb. Our founders understood those realities. But maybe most importantly, no one can claim to be a libertarian and yet support a government that is free to pick and choose their citizens. The "free market" should determine our immigration policy, not some arbitrary quota system created by a dysfunctional government.

And funny thing about that Immigration Act of 1965. Yes, it eliminated the quota system. But the always ignorant Congress people wanted to keep America "as it were", mostly white, mostly European. So you know what they implemented in that act to encourage that result? Chain migration. Yep, they figured if family members of citizens and current residents were given priority, and since those members were mostly white and European at the time, then that would help keep the United States a white majority. But, as it usually does, things didn't work out that way and now it is that very chain migration that the same supporters of that white majority condemn..

"You cannot make a moral argument for borders that are not open."

I don't have to, you dunce.......the wall around Obama's mansion speaks volumes.

UPDATE: Wall around Obama's DC home complete! - The American Mirror

Same question, what does property rights have to do with a border? Besides, that is not an argument let alone a moral argument.

"....what does property rights have to do with a border? "


I have to stop saying 'how stupid can you be,' as you appear to take it as a challenge.

Seriouisly, what do property rights have to do with a border. I mean if all the private citizens with land along the border want to put up a fence, at their expense, then they can go for it. But it is absolutely immoral for a country to CONFISCATE that same private land and force TAXPAYERS to finance a fence. What, you got nothing to refute that freedom of movement is an essential part of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? You got nothing to demonstrate how a border does not contradict "all men are created equal"? And tell me, how does a government that usually manages to screw everything up suddenly have the wisdom to determine who should be allowed in and who should be kept out? And tell me, just what type of government can we expect to have if we allow that government to pick and choose it's citizens? Sounds to me like a one way trip to despotism.

What the hell is wrong with the market determining immigration policy? Essentially it already does anyway. The economy is the biggest determinate of immigration, wall or no wall, laws or no laws.

So how about you impressing us with some actual rebuttal instead of stupid quips and ignorant insults. Or you can continue to demonstrate to all that you are nothing more than a copy and paste troll with no ability to actually put together an argument on your own.

Every day, it seems, there's some stupid, ugly, insalubrious imbecile whose mission is to lay out the usual, lying Leftist propaganda bumper-stickers.
I see, today, you've volunteered for that role.


Get lost.


And do not come back until you are ready to stop pretending not to see the same function in wall around Obama's house, and a border wall.


Be gone.

 

[PoliticalChic]

4. The Democrat print sheet, the NYTimes, trying to make a case for allowing their future votes open access to our welfare system.....and this ingrate demanding moochers in:


“There’s a witheringly obvious moral, economic, strategic and cultural case for open borders, and we have a political opportunity to push it.

But why had I deserved that chance, while so many others back home — because their parents lacked certain skills, money or luck — were denied it?”
Opinion | There’s Nothing Wrong With Open Borders





5. How’s this for a reason:

"Illegal Immigration Costs $116 billion Annually
“(Washington, D.C.) - Illegal immigration to the U.S. costs federal, state and local taxpayers a staggering net cost of $116 billion a year - an increase of some $16 billion compared to previous estimates - according to a new study released by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). The study is the most comprehensive to date on the cost to federal, state and local taxpayers of the nation's 12.5 million illegal immigrants and their 4.2 million citizen children.

The report, “The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers,” examines the cost of illegal immigration through a detailed analysis of federal, state and local programs that are available to the nation’s illegal immigrant population, their U.S.-born children, or accessed via fraud.

The staggering total costs of illegal immigrants and their children outweigh the taxes paid to federal and state governments by a ratio of roughly 7 to 1, with costs at nearly $135 billion compared to tax revenues at nearly $19 billion.”
http://www.irli.org/single-post/201...BNHYuYpqNoIjJKVFD4cOAuwXVYeLxfAcaAv39EALw_wcB

 

[PoliticalChic]

6. Somehow, Liberals imagine all sorts of 'rights' that suddenly come into existence.
This must be the latest right: to enter into what used to be a sovereign nation, at will, and demand being put up at the expense of the citizens of the nation.

Like this:
“The system assumes that people born outside our borders are less deserving of basic rights than those inside.” Opinion | There’s Nothing Wrong With Open Borders


Herein we find the Liberal brilliance writ large.




7. American citizens work to pay for all the welfare give-aways that bring Democrats votes.

….those in the top 20%, incomes of $150,000, that’s 52% of all income, pay 87% of all income taxes.
America has the most progressive income tax system of any industrialized nation: the more you make, the more you pay.

CBO:Top 40% Paid 106.2% of Income Taxes; Bottom 40% Paid -9.1%, Got Average of $18,950 in 'Transfers'
CBO:Top 40% Paid 106.2% of Income Taxes; Bottom 40% Paid -9.1%, Got Average of $18,950 in 'Transfers'



Taxes, taxes, taxes....
The inevitable condition for working Americans is to become slaves to government, in other words, completing the circle right back to becoming exactly the slaves that Republicans pried away from them almost two centuries ago.

 

[rightwinger]

Democrats support immigration reform
Republucans just support a wall

You support meaningless buzzwords like "immigration reform". Republicans offer real solutions.

Immigration reform
DACA kids
Resolving 12 million illegals already here
Going after employers
Visa reform

A wall does none of that

None of those things stops illegal immigration into the US. Like I said, all you have is buzzwords.

Jail employers and the jobs dry up

The bigger issue is what do we do with 12 million illegals already here?

 

[rightwinger]

4. The Democrat print sheet, the NYTimes, trying to make a case for allowing their future votes open access to our welfare system.....and this ingrate demanding moochers in:


“There’s a witheringly obvious moral, economic, strategic and cultural case for open borders, and we have a political opportunity to push it.

But why had I deserved that chance, while so many others back home — because their parents lacked certain skills, money or luck — were denied it?”
Opinion | There’s Nothing Wrong With Open Borders





5. How’s this for a reason:

"Illegal Immigration Costs $116 billion Annually
“(Washington, D.C.) - Illegal immigration to the U.S. costs federal, state and local taxpayers a staggering net cost of $116 billion a year - an increase of some $16 billion compared to previous estimates - according to a new study released by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). The study is the most comprehensive to date on the cost to federal, state and local taxpayers of the nation's 12.5 million illegal immigrants and their 4.2 million citizen children.

The report, “The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers,” examines the cost of illegal immigration through a detailed analysis of federal, state and local programs that are available to the nation’s illegal immigrant population, their U.S.-born children, or accessed via fraud.

The staggering total costs of illegal immigrants and their children outweigh the taxes paid to federal and state governments by a ratio of roughly 7 to 1, with costs at nearly $135 billion compared to tax revenues at nearly $19 billion.”
http://www.irli.org/single-post/201...BNHYuYpqNoIjJKVFD4cOAuwXVYeLxfAcaAv39EALw_wcB

Illegal immigrants add more to our economy than they cost

 

[rightwinger]

Show me someone who has built a wall around 10,000 acres of land. Then we can talk about walling in a country

*AHEM*

View attachment 240912

How did that work at holding back the Mongol hordes?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The democrat Party said out loud that an accurate voter database is an "existential threat" to their very existence.

The only reason that Trump hasn't yet wiped them out is that he does not want the RINOs to benefit

 

[PoliticalChic]

4. The Democrat print sheet, the NYTimes, trying to make a case for allowing their future votes open access to our welfare system.....and this ingrate demanding moochers in:


“There’s a witheringly obvious moral, economic, strategic and cultural case for open borders, and we have a political opportunity to push it.

But why had I deserved that chance, while so many others back home — because their parents lacked certain skills, money or luck — were denied it?”
Opinion | There’s Nothing Wrong With Open Borders





5. How’s this for a reason:

"Illegal Immigration Costs $116 billion Annually
“(Washington, D.C.) - Illegal immigration to the U.S. costs federal, state and local taxpayers a staggering net cost of $116 billion a year - an increase of some $16 billion compared to previous estimates - according to a new study released by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). The study is the most comprehensive to date on the cost to federal, state and local taxpayers of the nation's 12.5 million illegal immigrants and their 4.2 million citizen children.

The report, “The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers,” examines the cost of illegal immigration through a detailed analysis of federal, state and local programs that are available to the nation’s illegal immigrant population, their U.S.-born children, or accessed via fraud.

The staggering total costs of illegal immigrants and their children outweigh the taxes paid to federal and state governments by a ratio of roughly 7 to 1, with costs at nearly $135 billion compared to tax revenues at nearly $19 billion.”
http://www.irli.org/single-post/201...BNHYuYpqNoIjJKVFD4cOAuwXVYeLxfAcaAv39EALw_wcB

Illegal immigrants add more to our economy than they cost

Rule #1

Every argument from Democrats and Liberals is a misrepresentation, a fabrication, or a bald-faced lie.

 

[PoliticalChic]

8. Right from the NYTimes…..another ingrate, like the former President, not grateful for what America did for him….but now demanding more.

Watch this ingrate smear the American citizens who support the illegals:

“My native-born American friends did not seem to me to warrant any more dignity than my South African ones; according to this nation’s founding documents, we were all created equal. Yet by mere accident of geography, some were given freedom, and others were denied it.”
Opinion | There’s Nothing Wrong With Open Borders


Get that????
Our founding documents somehow apply to every person in the world.
It is Liberals hatred of America.


How did the definition of ‘freedom’ get to be ending the sovereignty that Americas Founders instituted????






The rules are simple enough, even for a Democrat/Liberal to understand:

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. In reality, even the normal suspects, the low-life, lying Liberals, know that they stand for no borders, and illegal immigrants, because they see them as Democrat voters, you know, what Obama told them to do in 2016.

But…they simply lie.

Here is the NYTimes a few months ago:



“FACT CHECK OF THE DAY

No, Democrats Don’t Want ‘Open Borders’ President Trump has falsely claimed at least two dozen times since taking office that Democrats want to open American borders. But legislation shows that Democrats support border security measures, though not the border wall he wants to build.” No, Democrats Don’t Want ‘Open Borders’





10. This week:

“There’s Nothing Wrong With Open Borders

Why a brave Democrat should make the case for vastly expanding immigration.” Opinion | There’s Nothing Wrong With Open Borders


Based on both the lack of knowledge, and the missing context, government school grads (Obama voters) can be convinced to support every absurdity of the Democrat Party, and, even when they doctrines reverse 180°, as they did both in the current support for gay marriage, and for allowing Iran nuclear weapons, and for a wall before they were against it.....the indoctrinated seem not to be aware of the change.

We actually saw this predicted in Orwell’s 1984.




Rule #1

Every argument from Democrats and Liberals is a misrepresentation, a fabrication, or a bald-faced lie.