Did Jesus really exist?

[MaxGrit]

Jews do NOT believe in the Christian Satan.
The word Sah-Tahn means "adversary".
Sah-Tahn is mentioned briefly in Job as a messenger of God, no more, no less.
And no, we do not know if Job was an allegory or actually occurred.

Satan, a transliterated word, has the primary meaning of Slanderer.

Slanderer was slandering Job.

Satan is not a messenger of God.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

(sigh)

Prove that there aren't fairies or unicorns?

exactly

(scratches head)

Umm. Wat?

 

[JoeB131]

Did Jesus really exist?

Sorry the nuns were mean to you, Joe; yeah, He is real.

No, he wasn't.

And, yeah, those nuns were nuts. What happens when you lock a bunch of Lesbians in the same house and tell them they can't ever have sex.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yup, He is, Joe, and your doubt is your rout, no one elses.

 

[AtheistBuddah]

Yup, He is, Joe, and your doubt is your rout, no one elses.

I need convincing, can you provide proof that he is? What made you believe?

 

[JoeB131]

Yup, He is, Joe, and your doubt is your rout, no one elses.

How about presenting EVIDENCE.

Not, gee, you hope there's a Jesus. Heck, I hope there's a Jesus. He seems like a really nice guy. I also hope that there's a Santa Claus. That would be awesome.

Real world, how about presenting us with EVIDENCE. I mean, yeah, we should love our neighbors and we should be good around Christmas, but that's not a good reason for believing in imaginary fairies.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Real world, how about presenting us with EVIDENCE.

/shrugs.....no........

 

[Hollie]

Real world, how about presenting us with EVIDENCE.

/shrugs.....no........

/shrugs......time for some new gawds.......

 

[THE LIGHT]

Oh, no, it's the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

I don't think you fully understand the "No True Scotsman" fallacy of which you speak.

I deleted your bible thumping diarrhea because it wasn't worth repeating.

The problem with the bible is I have a hard time figuring out which one was the bad guy.

Every one of us is bad. We have all broken God's law and are guilty. Without atonement we are in deep trouble. Fortunately there is one name upon which you may call to be saved and that is Jesus.

I deleted the last part of your post because I know you didn't really mean it. You were just repeating things you have heard other people say to deflect the love God has for you. Don't do it, you deserve better.

 

[The Irish Ram]

It's interesting to note that as mankind progressed in the process of scientific investigation, the occurrence of biblical "miracles" decreased concurrently.

Maybe the gods retired from the "miracle" business? Or, maybe "miracles" of the bibles were not miracles at all.

Or maybe the signs and wonders were for a time. The Bible explains why. And, why they stopped long before scientific investigation existed. The occurrence does not decrease concurrently. They stopped when the ones preforming them were killed.
Maybe there's something you can debate that you have a little more expertise in?

 

[THE LIGHT]

How about presenting EVIDENCE.

Not, gee, you hope there's a Jesus. Heck, I hope there's a Jesus. He seems like a really nice guy. I also hope that there's a Santa Claus. That would be awesome.

Real world, how about presenting us with EVIDENCE. I mean, yeah, we should love our neighbors and we should be good around Christmas, but that's not a good reason for believing in imaginary fairies.

A good reason is that every time you do something wrong, your conscience tells you that something isn't right. Every one of us has a built-in moral compass that warns us something just isn't right. Some of us ignore it, while others listen to it which is the beginning of finding the truth (Proverbs 1:7). Sadly some rip it out altogether which is what the scripture calls having ones conscience seared with a hot iron.

I think you are searching which is a good thing. Just don't stay there too long.

 

[The Irish Ram]

JoeB131 said: ↑
On another thread, I made the statement that Jesus was a made up character.
Here's why I think he was.
1) The Gospels were written years after his supposed life, and they contradict each other on key points.
2) He is not mentioned by a lot of contemporary writers who should have noticed him.
3) He shares a lot of traits with other mythological figures.

Good God. If you haven't done even a modicum of research on the subject, you shouldn't be drawing conclusions.
The Gospels were written before the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD.
Not only was He mentioned by his contemporaries, The finest minds of the time tried to explain the 3 hours the earth went dark while Jesus hung on the cross.
We have eyewitness accounts and word for word records of Christs' trial, and Pilate's displeasure with the Pharisees, upon His return 3 days later.

Being human He had no traits of mytholical figures.

 

[THE LIGHT]

Here's a greate example of why I think the Jesus Story is bunk.

The Massacre of the Innocents. - In the Gospel of Matthew, King Herod, outraged that the Wise men (Number never specified) tricked him by not telling him where the Messiah was, ordered his soldiers to kill all the baby boys. Some apologists have said this was just in Bethlehem, Joseph and Mary Flee to Egypt. Herod dies. Joseph settles in Galilee.

Now- No other Gospel mentioned this event. Luke comes up with a completely different plot device to get Jesus into Bethlehem to be born. (A census that history doesn't record and would put Jesus birth 10 years later than Matthew).

Also, Herod ordering the massacre of babies would have been a pretty horrific event. Someone like Philo or Josephus would have recorded it.

Finally, in the Department of Holy Plagiarism, this sounds exactly like the story of all the babies that were killed when Moses was born back in Exodus.

The story of George Washington cutting down the cherry tree is bunk. The story of him throwing the dollar across the Potomac is bunk. Does that mean he never existed? Lots of myths build up around people, that doesn't mean they weren't real.

It's interesting to note that as mankind progressed in the process of scientific investigation, the occurrence of biblical "miracles" decreased concurrently.

Maybe the gods retired from the "miracle" business? Or, maybe "miracles" of the bibles were not miracles at all.

The gods never have been able to perform miracles because they aren't real. There is only one real living God whose name is YHWH.

And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked. And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them. And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded.
(1 Kings 18:27-29 KJV)

And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down. And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name: And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood. And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time. And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water. And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word. Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again. Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
(1 Kings 18:30-38 KJV)

 

[Hollie]

How about presenting EVIDENCE.

Not, gee, you hope there's a Jesus. Heck, I hope there's a Jesus. He seems like a really nice guy. I also hope that there's a Santa Claus. That would be awesome.

Real world, how about presenting us with EVIDENCE. I mean, yeah, we should love our neighbors and we should be good around Christmas, but that's not a good reason for believing in imaginary fairies.

A good reason is that every time you do something wrong, your conscience tells you that something isn't right. Every one of us has a built-in moral compass that warns us something just isn't right. Some of us ignore it, while others listen to it which is the beginning of finding the truth (Proverbs 1:7). Sadly some rip it out altogether which is what the scripture calls having ones conscience seared with a hot iron.

I think you are searching which is a good thing. Just don't stay there too long.

A "built-in" moral compass? Ah, so we can take this to mean that the Inquisition, Salem witch trials, etc., derived from a "built-in" moral code that Christians used to purge those immoral types from the planet.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Every one of us is bad. We have all broken God's law and are guilty. Without atonement we are in deep trouble. Fortunately there is one name upon which you may call to be saved and that is Jesus.

I deleted the last part of your post because I know you didn't really mean it. You were just repeating things you have heard other people say to deflect the love God has for you. Don't do it, you deserve better.

I don't threaten to burn the people I love for all eternity because they don't worship me. In fact, I think that sounds a little psychotic.

And now- The Ann and Jeff Show. Which one of these guys deserves to burn in hell for ever and ever?

Ann was a Jewish Girl who didn't accept Jesus into her heart. Probably because guys who believed in Jesus and wore "God's with Us" belt buckles invaded her country and made her hide in an attic for years. Then they found her, sent her to a concentration camp, where she died without accepting Jesus into her soul.

Then you have Jeff. Jeff was a homosexual cannibal who raped, killed and ate 18 young men. But Jeff accepted Jesus into his heart when he went to prison and got baptized, right before a fellow prisoner bashed his skull in.

Hmmmm. Now, if I were a fair and reasonable God, I'd really not burn either one of them, but if given a choice, I'd probably burn Jeff Dahmner before I'd burn Ann Frank.

But I'm not your loving Bible God who seems to be really obsessed about being worshiped.

Chirstian logic. Ann Burns in Hell, Jeffrey gets all his sins forgiven and goes to heaven.

Seriously, how fucked up is that?

 

[JoeB131]

[

Good God. If you haven't done even a modicum of research on the subject, you shouldn't be drawing conclusions.
The Gospels were written before the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD.

Um, no, they weren't. They were written after, so Jesus could sound really smart predicting the destruction of the Temple.

[
Not only was He mentioned by his contemporaries, The finest minds of the time tried to explain the 3 hours the earth went dark while Jesus hung on the cross.

Ah, that one. Um, no, not really. The claim is that Thallus, a second century historian, recorded 3 h ours of darkness and tried to explain it away. the problem is, of course, is that we don't have Thallus' original account or writings on this. What we have is a ninth century Christian writer Georgius Syncellus, quoting a third century christian writer, Julius Africanus. So what you have is a third hand account of an event that neatly corresponds with bible lore.

Non-Christian Testimony for Jesus 8211 From the authentic pen of lying Christian scribes

This is how myths start. for instance, it's generally accepted that LBJ said after Walter Conkrite denounced the Vietnam War, that "If I've lost Conkrite, I've lost Middle America". Except he never said it.

[
We have eyewitness accounts and word for word records of Christs' trial, and Pilate's displeasure with the Pharisees, upon His return 3 days later.

Really? From where? In fact, there are no pagan or Jewish accounts of Jesus trial. If anything, the Gospels contradict history.

Let us take Pontius Pilate. In the Gospels, Pilate is portrayed as a guy who was really reluctant to execute Jesus, even giving Jesus a fair trial. But in Josephus, Pilate is portrayed as someone who executed Judeans without trial and without much remorse.

But the fictionalized Pilate does make sense when you are rewriting a history for a State Roman Religion where the Romans are the good guys and the Jews are the bad guys.

[Being human He had no traits of mytholical figures.

You mean other than being the son of a God, walking on water, raising the dead, and a bunch of other miracles?

 

[PostmodernProph]

Real world, how about presenting us with EVIDENCE.

/shrugs.....no........

/shrugs......time for some new gawds.......

you've already got new gawds......

 

[BillyP]

There's no actual proof that Jesus existed. Kinda like Santa Claus.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So Nero persecuted people who didn't exist.

Amazing

Progs is smaarrt

 

[CrusaderFrank]

There's no actual proof that Jesus existed. Kinda like Santa Claus.

You mean besides eye witness accounts

And people don't Martyr themselves for Santa Claus