DennisPTate
Gold Member
- Nov 6, 2025
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I e-mailed off the following question to near death experiencer Robert Marshall of "44 Hours in Heaven Ministries"an hour or so ago : "Did Jesus become Messiah at His conception?
Or at His birth?
Or when the Holy Spirit descended on Him like a dove when He was baptized by John the Baptist in the Jordan River?"
Now that I have had an opportunity to give this more thought my opinion at this time is that "The Spirit of Moshiach Stored in Gan Eden" would be given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus at conception. But, then even more of the Holy Spirit or "Spirit of Moshiach" would be given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus at His birth.
But then even more and more of the Holy Spirit was given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus when He was baptized by John the Baptist in the River Jordan. But then even more of the Holy Spirit was given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus while He was fasting for forty days in the wilderness and met The Tempter, [who I assume would be former Covering Cherub Helel who Christians know as Lucifer - Satan].
Then I believe that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus had a real opportunity to ask for seventy legions of angels as He prayed at Gethsemanie and He was free to play out a different role in life than "Moshiach - Messiah Son of David - Messiah the Passover Lamb. I believe that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus could have put the Yom Kippur event first, and turned that Yom Kippur event into a new year allegorically, but Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus decided to do Messiah Son of David, Messiah the Passover Lamb first two millennia ago and as a result the Holy Spirit, [or can we say The Spirit of Moshiach Stored in Gan Eden], was poured out on Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus, so that He could fulfill a role that no Christian would want to attempt to compete with Him for that role!
....
Can you imagine how insane the Trump Derangement Syndrome People would get if President Donald J. Trump and his team got into some spirituality and theology in their spare time and brought Christian Theologians to a whole new place of cooperation with Rabbi's in Israel?
....
"If the Disciple known as John was a genuine "Christian Prophet" then the soul of "The Spirit of Moshiach stored in Gan Eden" either entered Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus and turned Him into Messiah Yeshua - Jesus at conception, or perhaps at birth, or perhaps at the unusual event of the Holy Spirit coming upon Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus like a "dove" when He was baptized by John the Baptist at the River Jordan?
I personally no longer know for certain exactly when Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus became "Messiah the Passover Lamb - Messiah Son of David," was it even before conception? Was it at His birth? Or was it when He was Baptized by John the Baptist? The full answer to this topic is above my own Security Clearance Level and Pay Scale with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus, [and incidentally when Messiah Yeshua - Jesus appears as The Being of Light of near death experience fame], He often tells whoever He meets about a major piece of the puzzle and then tells them to NOT TELL ANYBODY, what He just showed them was a major piece of the "Genius Master Plan," [as former Atheist and near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava terms what the G-d of Abraham has set up for all eight billion of us]?
Here is an article from a Jewish website that has the power to revolutionize the relationship between the vast majority of Christians, [including Pope Leo himself], with ten million Israelis, [or at least with the leading Rabbi's in Israel]?
.....
So now after reading this article we can begin to ask questions that will make much more sense out of the seemingly blasphemous statements that were made by the Disciple John regarding the Pre-Existence of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus, [the Prophet Isa to Muslims, Shalom be upon Him]?
....
I am of the belief that Pastor Rick Joyner is one of the most gifted Charismatic Christian visionaries alive on earth at this time. I believe that what Pastor Rick Joyner was shown about a formerly homeless man named "Angelo" gives us a clue as to how more and more and more of the Holy Spirit can be given to us mere humans as we make decisions during our lives.
Here is an article written by an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi that I read twenty some years ago that forced me to think and think and think about this question?
Or at His birth?
Or when the Holy Spirit descended on Him like a dove when He was baptized by John the Baptist in the Jordan River?"
Now that I have had an opportunity to give this more thought my opinion at this time is that "The Spirit of Moshiach Stored in Gan Eden" would be given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus at conception. But, then even more of the Holy Spirit or "Spirit of Moshiach" would be given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus at His birth.
But then even more and more of the Holy Spirit was given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus when He was baptized by John the Baptist in the River Jordan. But then even more of the Holy Spirit was given to Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus while He was fasting for forty days in the wilderness and met The Tempter, [who I assume would be former Covering Cherub Helel who Christians know as Lucifer - Satan].
Then I believe that Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus had a real opportunity to ask for seventy legions of angels as He prayed at Gethsemanie and He was free to play out a different role in life than "Moshiach - Messiah Son of David - Messiah the Passover Lamb. I believe that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus could have put the Yom Kippur event first, and turned that Yom Kippur event into a new year allegorically, but Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus decided to do Messiah Son of David, Messiah the Passover Lamb first two millennia ago and as a result the Holy Spirit, [or can we say The Spirit of Moshiach Stored in Gan Eden], was poured out on Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus, so that He could fulfill a role that no Christian would want to attempt to compete with Him for that role!
....
Can you imagine how insane the Trump Derangement Syndrome People would get if President Donald J. Trump and his team got into some spirituality and theology in their spare time and brought Christian Theologians to a whole new place of cooperation with Rabbi's in Israel?
....
"If the Disciple known as John was a genuine "Christian Prophet" then the soul of "The Spirit of Moshiach stored in Gan Eden" either entered Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus and turned Him into Messiah Yeshua - Jesus at conception, or perhaps at birth, or perhaps at the unusual event of the Holy Spirit coming upon Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus like a "dove" when He was baptized by John the Baptist at the River Jordan?
I personally no longer know for certain exactly when Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus became "Messiah the Passover Lamb - Messiah Son of David," was it even before conception? Was it at His birth? Or was it when He was Baptized by John the Baptist? The full answer to this topic is above my own Security Clearance Level and Pay Scale with Messiah Yeshua - Jesus, [and incidentally when Messiah Yeshua - Jesus appears as The Being of Light of near death experience fame], He often tells whoever He meets about a major piece of the puzzle and then tells them to NOT TELL ANYBODY, what He just showed them was a major piece of the "Genius Master Plan," [as former Atheist and near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava terms what the G-d of Abraham has set up for all eight billion of us]?
Here is an article from a Jewish website that has the power to revolutionize the relationship between the vast majority of Christians, [including Pope Leo himself], with ten million Israelis, [or at least with the leading Rabbi's in Israel]?
.....
So now after reading this article we can begin to ask questions that will make much more sense out of the seemingly blasphemous statements that were made by the Disciple John regarding the Pre-Existence of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus, [the Prophet Isa to Muslims, Shalom be upon Him]?
....
I am of the belief that Pastor Rick Joyner is one of the most gifted Charismatic Christian visionaries alive on earth at this time. I believe that what Pastor Rick Joyner was shown about a formerly homeless man named "Angelo" gives us a clue as to how more and more and more of the Holy Spirit can be given to us mere humans as we make decisions during our lives.
[Pastor Rick Joyner] :
"Angelo
“There is still someone you must meet before you return to the battle,” He said as we walked. As we did, I continued to be astonished by how much more glorious He had become than even a few minutes before.
“Every time you see Me with the eyes of your heart, your mind is renewed a little bit more,” He proceeded to say. “One day you will be able to abide in My presence continually. When you do that, all you have learned by My Spirit will be readily available to you, and I will be available to you.”
I could hear and understand everything He said, but I was so captured by His glory that I just had to ask Him, “Lord, why are you so much more glorious now than when You first appeared to me as Wisdom?”
“I have never changed, but you have. You are changed as you behold My glory with an unveiled face. The experiences you have had are removing the veils from your face so that you can see Me more clearly. Yet nothing removes them as quickly as when you behold My love.”
He then stopped, and I turned to look at those on the thrones next to us. We were still in the place where the highest kings were sitting. Then I recognized a man who was close by.
“Sir, I know you from somewhere, but I simply cannot remember where.”
“You once saw me in a vision,” he replied.
I immediately remembered, and was shocked! “So you were a real person?”
“Yes,” he replied.
I remembered the day when, as a young Christian, I had become frustrated with some issues in my life. I went out into the middle of a battlefield park near my apartment and determined that I would wait until the Lord spoke to me. As I sat reading my Bible, I was caught up into a vision, one of the first ones I ever had. In the vision I saw a man who was zealously serving the Lord. He was continually witnessing to people, teaching the Bible, and visiting the sick to pray for them. He was very zealous for the Lord, and had a genuine love for people. Then I saw another man, named Angelo, who was obviously a tramp or a homeless person. When a small kitten wandered into his path, he started to kick it but restrained himself, though he still shoved it out of the way rather harshly with his foot. Then the Lord asked me which of these men pleased Him the most.
“The first,” I said without hesitating.
“No, the second,” He responded, and began to tell me their stories.
He shared that the first man had been raised in a wonderful family, which had always known the Lord. He grew up in a thriving church and then attended one of the best Bible colleges in the country. He had been given one hundred portions of His love, but he was using only seventy-five.
... [Rick Joyner, The Final Quest] scroll down to near the bottom of this page:
The Hordes of Hell Are Marching
On February the 16th, 1995 I was given a dream in which I saw a great army from hell that had been released against the church. Two days later I was given a vision in which I saw this diabolical horde again, but in much greater detail. This is an abbreviated version of the first part of that...msm.morningstarministries.org
Here is an article written by an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi that I read twenty some years ago that forced me to think and think and think about this question?
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