Diane Black , a female GOP rich rep. wants to end the EMTLA

[JoeB131]

The thing is, lately it's mostly liberals I hear bitching about EMTALA. It really brings out their "inner selfish prick".

Well, why they ***** about it is because it creates unnecessary expense. The ER's know the poor people won't pay, so they jack up the prices on the rest of us.

Simpler solution- universal health care and community clinics.

THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS FIGURED THIS OUT ALREADY.

 

[debbiedowner]

Hence, one solution for this problem is to have the option of an emergency room or clinic at the same or nearby locations with admittance staffs at both that is triage qualified to decide which is appropriate.

I have never lived in a place that didn't have 7/24 clinics within a 30 minute drive. Certainly every city has something like that. ERs on the other hand are staffed with emergency workers, not clinical diagnosticians.

No, every city does not have 24/7 open clinics, you certainly must have only lived in one city.

 

[dblack]

The "Let Them Die" thing is a by-product of their fixation on government as the only way to solve social problems. In their worldview, if you are opposed to using government to solve a problem, it can only mean you don't want the problem solved! If you don't want government taking over health care, it means you want people to die.

No, it just means you are indifferent to it if it happens, and that's even a little worse.

See what I mean?

Either health care is a commodity to be bought and sold, and if you can't afford it, **** you.

or

It's a basic human right, and has to be provided by whatever means works.

so which is it?

Neither of course.

Health care IS a commodity to be bought and sold (actually, it's a service, but I guess that doesn't have the same ring to it). It will remain that way until doctors and nurses see the light and agree to work for free. But that's not a "**** you" to anyone. Just a recognition of the reality of the situation.

 

[JoeB131]

Neither of course.

Health care IS a commodity to be bought and sold (actually, it's a service, but I guess that doesn't have the same ring to it). It will remain that way until doctors and nurses see the light and agree to work for free. But that's not a "**** you" to anyone. Just a recognition of the reality of the situation.

So by that logic, fire fighting and police work is a "service" that is bought and sold because policemen and firefighters don't work for free.

I'm sure as a rugged individualist, you think people should put out their own fires, though.

The reality, though, is we don't provide those things on people's ability to pay. We don't let a tenement of poor children burn down because a rich ***** needs someone to get her cat out of a tree.

Medical treatment should be the same thing. We take care of the poor kids with cancer, and THEN we take care of the rich-*****'s facelift, if we have any money left over.

 

[fncceo]

We don't let a tenement of poor children burn down because a rich ***** needs someone to get her cat out of a tree.

Depends on the cat.

 

[dblack]

Neither of course.

Health care IS a commodity to be bought and sold (actually, it's a service, but I guess that doesn't have the same ring to it). It will remain that way until doctors and nurses see the light and agree to work for free. But that's not a "**** you" to anyone. Just a recognition of the reality of the situation.

So by that logic, fire fighting and police work is a "service" that is bought and sold because policemen and firefighters don't work for free.

I'm sure as a rugged individualist, you think people should put out their own fires, though.

The reality, though, is we don't provide those things on people's ability to pay. We don't let a tenement of poor children burn down because a rich ***** needs someone to get her cat out of a tree.

Medical treatment should be the same thing. We take care of the poor kids with cancer, and THEN we take care of the rich-*****'s facelift, if we have any money left over.

That'd be fine with me, actually. If we want to make health care a government services, we should handle it like we do firefighting or education. But I don't hear any of the socialists advocating for that. They want centralized, national control of health care. Nothing less will do.

 

[JoeB131]

That'd be fine with me, actually. If we want to make health care a government services, we should handle it like we do firefighting or education. But I don't hear any of the socialists advocating for that. They want centralized, national control of health care. Nothing less will do.

Yes, we don't want Billy Bob out in the red states turning over health care to his cousin Cleetus....

 

[dblack]

That'd be fine with me, actually. If we want to make health care a government services, we should handle it like we do firefighting or education. But I don't hear any of the socialists advocating for that. They want centralized, national control of health care. Nothing less will do.

Yes, we don't want Billy Bob out in the red states turning over health care to his cousin Cleetus....

Because the entire point is to centralize power. Billy Bob and Cleetus aren't corporatists.

 

[JoeB131]

Because the entire point is to centralize power. Billy Bob and Cleetus aren't corporatists.

They also aren't competent.

 

[dblack]

Because the entire point is to centralize power. Billy Bob and Cleetus aren't corporatists.

They also aren't competent.

Competency doesn't require authoritarian government.

 

[JoeB131]

Competency doesn't require authoritarian government.

Again, what you consider Authoritarian and what sensible people consider authoritarian are two different things.

 

[MadChemist]

LET THEM DIE!

The republican party is the party of satan.

No. That is not what she is saying. She is saying that the ER is not the appropriate place to go for a cold.

Well you take away the ACA and expanded Medicaid, that is what she is saying. Let them die.

wrong again.

Adults can still get insurance, still get needed care at the hospital.

A point that seems lost in the conversation.

 

[MadChemist]

Competency doesn't require authoritarian government.

Again, what you consider Authoritarian and what sensible people consider authoritarian are two different things.

By all means explain the differences as you see them.

Please.

In reading through this thread, i continue to see a lack of coherent supported argument on either side.

 

[MadChemist]

another leftist that is against freedom.


ever been to an ER during the day?


It's full of people sitting around waiting to get aspirin for cold or a Band-Aid for a minor cut.

and it you have an actual, painful problem, you have to wait your turn.

That is a problem that is easily solved. Corruption and collusion between hospitals and insurance companies prevent the problem from being solved.

Can you support this charge with verifiable evidence ?

 

[JoeB131]

By all means explain the differences as you see them.

Please.

In reading through this thread, i continue to see a lack of coherent supported argument on either side.

No, you don't see the answers you want.

single payer is how the rest of the world does it, they aren't any less free than we are.

 

[MadChemist]

No. That is not what she is saying. She is saying that the ER is not the appropriate place to go for a cold.

Well you take away the ACA and expanded Medicaid, that is what she is saying. Let them die.

You say babies born and unborn should die on the table because their mothers cant afford to raise them, what is the difference for those that cant pay and die in the ER?

Never ever said that. Either back it up in context, or an apology would be appropriate.

You voted for Hillary, so actions speak volumes, but again, if all hospitals end up closed because those that pay become less , you are okay with that? Our hospitals in Virginia are inundated with illegal, who show up at the ER because their Anchors have a head cold. Since they cant speak Engrish, they get free care, but when my son(legal US citizen) shows up, he is given an number, then I have to pay for his and all those illegals care.

Don't they do triage in Virginia. Yes I voted for Clinton, and as such the ACA and expanded Medicaid would not be on the chopping block.

By all means explain the differences as you see them.

Please.

In reading through this thread, i continue to see a lack of coherent supported argument on either side.

No, you don't see the answers you want.

single payer is how the rest of the world does it, they aren't any less free than we are.

No, I don't see any coherent argument.

BTW: What answers do I want (since you seem to be in the know) ?

 

[MadChemist]

Pneumonia is often misdiagnosed as being a cold or flu

Which is precisely the reason you don't go to a crowded, overworked, and understaffed ER to diagnose a cold. They will give you paracetamol and rush you out the door without a proper exam.

Emergency rooms are for emergencies ...

Isn't this what prompted "emergicare" type centers ?

 

[MadChemist]

another leftist that is against freedom.


ever been to an ER during the day?


It's full of people sitting around waiting to get aspirin for cold or a Band-Aid for a minor cut.

and it you have an actual, painful problem, you have to wait your turn.

That is a problem that is easily solved. Corruption and collusion between hospitals and insurance companies prevent the problem from being solved.

toss in useless law suits that make hospitals give you useless and expensive tests.

Doctors use diagnostic tests. They do not have xray vision and God like abilities.

so you are all for a doctor, knowingly, giving you a battery of test, just so he can avoid a lawsuit and charge your ins company, driving up cost of ins.


why do you hate poor people?

Yes I am, one must rule out things to make an accurate diagnosis.

I think the contention here is that every doctor will run the tests they believe will probably provide the answers he is looking for. If that were not the case, everybody would get the same set of full comprehensive tests (at the extreme).

Those tests are dependent upon what he thinks the issue might be.

There is the term "defensive" medicine:

Defensive medicine - Wikipedia

which is what is being described.

 

[MadChemist]

Health care reform is just that, the democrats tried it, the republicans had nothing but repeal.

Such rhetoric is useless.

1. The GOP does not seem interested in the issues at hand. They, along with the democrats have done nothing to define an issue to address.
2. The ACA was not what either side wanted. It have very few upsides and many downsides. But it was an attempt to address "something" and by that I mean it's goals were not clear (and that is typical of politician on both sides.
3. The GOP has no better an offer now than they had in 2010. What does that tell you ? It tells me that there is nothing better because we don't address the fundamental issues associated with health care.
4. The constant bleating about single payer is usless as a final decision as this country will never get there. It can't. The transition would never be given the time it needed to take place.

So far this thread has read like all the rest. People with their conclusions in hand doing nothing but trying to justify them and providing little or no evidence in that regard.

 

[MadChemist]

why because the Reps want free market. If you are unaware that the Pubs were anti the ACA since inception and controlled the house and senate since 2012, and what Trump is doing to finally bring it to an end, well I guess you have not been paying attention..

One of us wasn't paying attention, true. The Dems lost the House in 2010 because of ACA - the way it was rammed down the throats of the public - and because it was primarily a payoff to those evil corporations and did little to address health care costs. However, contrary to popular misconception, the Dems held onto the Senate until 2015.

Take away Medicaid and say good=bye to healthcare as we know it. The Cadillac tax is not going to take effect, and "Strengthen HSA's, and catastrophic coverage choices" is not going to help those on median income or lower.

Enact Medicaid or Medicare for all and say good bye to healthcare as we know it...it will then devolve into a two tier system. There is no one-size-fits-all, as has already been pointed out. That was the failing of ACA - unintended or intentional, makes no difference. The result is the same.

The ACA and expanded Medicaid was not one size fits all. I doubt you know much about the ACA by the way you talk. The GOP doesn't have a plan, back to the same old garbage, and high prices, you have not seen anything yet, since they are free market , remember.

Health insurance has not been free market for a very long time. Most, if not all, states have an "insurance commissioner" and there were regulations regarding the sale of insurance.

Medicaid is not free market. It gives people and open checkbook for access to health care with little or no consequence to the person making that decision.

Want into that "super lucrative" insurance market ? Get out your checkbook. It will cost you millions to get through the red tape created by the government (and encouraged by the existing industry) that represents a huge barrier to entry. And then you'll find out, it isn't so lucrative after all.