Democrats will be 100% responsible for a shutdown.

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Despite the 6 hour televised circus Obamacare was passed without gop ideas. It was rammed down the throat of the American public through misuse of the Senate rules and without the support of a single member of the gop.

And that's not "weasely"? GTFO

So when the gop someday hold all the majorities and overturn abortion or welfare or WHATEVER strictly along party lines while bending the rules of congress it won't be considered "weasely"?

 

[thereisnospoon]

They are forcing it in the hopes that the gop gets the blame and they cake walk back into control of the house. Party over country.....

No matter how many times you tell that same lie, the public isn't buying it. Ted Cruz owned the shutdown for the GOP. He put his performance art face all over it. Only one party is willing to shut down the government over what they cannot accomplish legislatively and it's not the Democrats.

If one believes the GOP should simply capitulate to democrat demands 100% of the time, well then that person would consider it a lie.
BUt that is not how government works. We have two houses of Congress and three branches of government. Each with its own role.
I know you libs have a hard time accepting those facts.
Yes, I do understand that you libs believe the Congress serves at the pleasure of the President. Especially when the president's agenda is on the line.
Look, "just go along and shut up" is not governance.

 

[G.T.]

So what you're saying, is both sides are to "blame" for the failure to pass a debt ceiling increase? Alright. I'm glad you're one of the sane ones.

No, I'm saying that I don't think that the passing of the debt ceiling or the funding of the Government is the correct time to debate already passed legislation, and doing so is - as you say - a "weasel" move, in my opinion.

I also wouldn't like it if the shoes were reversed.

So only one party of no compromise has to fit the blame for a "government shutdown"?
I disagree. Republicans who are involved in defunding Obama Tax are actually doing the work of their constituency.

On the other hand, Obama and the Dem controlled senate are acting on behalf of their corporatist partners who authoried the bill in question. Only Dem supporters can be waived from Obama Tax.


How very quaint.

They're working on behalf of their constituency by dishonest means. They cannot get enough support to repeal the bill on its own merit, so they are failures and need to take something else as leverage (read: hostage) and yes, that is a very dishonest tactic and it hurts not only their constituents, but the entire Country as well.

When my 401k starts dropping dollars into thin air, I'm going to look at the party that wouldn't just pass a spending bill to fund everything they ALREADY PASSED, not the party who's trying to use "paying our bills or not" as a hostage to repeal something already said and done.

 

[G.T.]

Despite the 6 hour televised circus Obamacare was passed without gop ideas. It was rammed down the throat of the American public through misuse of the Senate rules and without the support of a single member of the gop.

And that's not "weasely"? GTFO

So when the gop someday hold all the majorities and overturn abortion or welfare or WHATEVER strictly along party lines while bending the rules of congress it won't be considered "weasely"?

Without gop ideas?

Insurance exchanges - gop idea
Tax cuts - gop idea
insurance mandate - newt gingrich / heritage foundation co sponsored idea


Dems idea was a clean single payer, but instead, they included gop ideas. How come? They just felt like it?

 

[thereisnospoon]

The government has shut down at least a dozen times in the last 35 years, it's really no big deal.

Of course not. However, we have a complicit and Obama adoring main stream media that will send out reporters to the homes of furloughed federal workers and family members of military personnel to do "human interest stories" on how these people will struggle to make ends meet.
First, military personnel will still be paid. Social Security and other social safety net payments will NOT stop as these are mandatory expenditures and no subject to any shut down of government.
In all actuality, the only affect this shut down will have will be on non-essential services such as national parks and non critical administration of various federal depts.
The same people who get paid days off when it snows more than a couple inches in the DC Metro area.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

No, I'm saying that I don't think that the passing of the debt ceiling or the funding of the Government is the correct time to debate already passed legislation, and doing so is - as you say - a "weasel" move, in my opinion.

I also wouldn't like it if the shoes were reversed.

So only one party of no compromise has to fit the blame for a "government shutdown"?
I disagree. Republicans who are involved in defunding Obama Tax are actually doing the work of their constituency.

On the other hand, Obama and the Dem controlled senate are acting on behalf of their corporatist partners who authoried the bill in question. Only Dem supporters can be waived from Obama Tax.


How very quaint.

They're working on behalf of their constituency by dishonest means. They cannot get enough support to repeal the bill on its own merit, so they are failures and need to take something else as leverage (read: hostage) and yes, that is a very dishonest tactic and it hurts not only their constituents, but the entire Country as well.

When my 401k starts dropping dollars into thin air, I'm going to look at the party that wouldn't just pass a spending bill to fund everything they ALREADY PASSED, not the party who's trying to use "paying our bills or not" as a hostage to repeal something already said and done.

People who look at 10 of their 40 work hours disappearing into thin air feel your pain.

 

[Nyvin]

It comes down to this really -

The GOP says "No" on ACA

The Democrats say "Yes" on ACA

ACA has been passed legally and verified through the supreme court.

The Democrats have the presidency and the Senate. The GOP has the house

The public would largely blame the GOP for a shutdown

By any viewpoint possible the democrats have the stronger hand in this.

 

[BDBoop]

IT'S NOT THAT "BOTH SIDES REFUSE TO NEGOTIATE." IT'S THAT 'ONE' SIDE REFUSES TO ACCEPT THAT EVERYTHING HAS ALREADY BEEN NEGOTIATED:

As we watch the facade and shameless shenanigans put on by Conservatives, and the willingness of spineless and derelict news agencies (main stream media included) that echo and amplify the Republican message, pretending the latest congressional confrontation taking us to the brink [again] of a government shut down is because "both sides" can't agree, it's important to remember one thing - the Affordable Care ACT (Obamacare, ACA) has already been negotiated and accepted.

For those with amnesia; the ACA was negotiated in 2009 before it became law, when congressional negotiation is supposed to take place. The White House presented a version, as did a number of congressmen - Republicans forced concessions, and what we have today is what was ultimately produced from the synthesis of ideas of our government leaders. That version, which was "negotiated" and agreed upon, was voted into law by CONGRESS. It was upheld by the SUPREME COURT and President Obama ran on it in 2012 and WON the election. His challenger, who ran on repealling it, lost.

What that means, for those still not comprehending, is the ACA is accepted and supported by Congress - it is accepted and supported by the Supreme Court - and it is accepted and supported by the American people. That's what 2009 was all about; figuring out if the ACA was A) legal and desired by Americans, and according to Congress, The Supreme Court and the American electorate, it's a resounding "yes" on both counts - done and done.

The ACA has been being prepared since that time and now that it's ready to start being implemented the Republicans are trying to refight a fight they lost four years ago.

If the government does shut down it won't be because "both sides" refused to negotiate. It will be because there was never anything negotiable in the first place. It will be because there was a group of desperate, depraved Conservatives whose hate for the president far exceeds their sense of duty and concern for the people they were elected to serve.

The Knowledge Movement

 

[Barb]

Congress members seen 'drinking' during late-night debate as the brakes are put on Obamacare | Mail Online

By repealing the medical device tax, the GOP measure also would raise deficits — an irony for a party that won the House majority in 2010 by pledging to get the nation's finances under control.

Read more: Congress members seen 'drinking' during late-night debate as the brakes are put on Obamacare | Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

IT'S NOT THAT "BOTH SIDES REFUSE TO NEGOTIATE." IT'S THAT 'ONE' SIDE REFUSES TO ACCEPT THAT EVERYTHING HAS ALREADY BEEN NEGOTIATED:

As we watch the facade and shameless shenanigans put on by Conservatives, and the willingness of spineless and derelict news agencies (main stream media included) that echo and amplify the Republican message, pretending the latest congressional confrontation taking us to the brink [again] of a government shut down is because "both sides" can't agree, it's important to remember one thing - the Affordable Care ACT (Obamacare, ACA) has already been negotiated and accepted.

For those with amnesia; the ACA was negotiated in 2009 before it became law, when congressional negotiation is supposed to take place. The White House presented a version, as did a number of congressmen - Republicans forced concessions, and what we have today is what was ultimately produced from the synthesis of ideas of our government leaders. That version, which was "negotiated" and agreed upon, was voted into law by CONGRESS. It was upheld by the SUPREME COURT and President Obama ran on it in 2012 and WON the election. His challenger, who ran on repealling it, lost.

What that means, for those still not comprehending, is the ACA is accepted and supported by Congress - it is accepted and supported by the Supreme Court - and it is accepted and supported by the American people. That's what 2009 was all about; figuring out if the ACA was A) legal and desired by Americans, and according to Congress, The Supreme Court and the American electorate, it's a resounding "yes" on both counts - done and done.

The ACA has been being prepared since that time and now that it's ready to start being implemented the Republicans are trying to refight a fight they lost four years ago.

If the government does shut down it won't be because "both sides" refused to negotiate. It will be because there was never anything negotiable in the first place. It will be because there was a group of desperate, depraved Conservatives whose hate for the president far exceeds their sense of duty and concern for the people they were elected to serve.

The Knowledge Movement

With all due respect that is a bunch of gibberish.

It was not negotiated. EVER

Congress OBVIOUSLY does not accept it or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

And I'm wore out from poking holes in the stupid we won meme

 

[RKMBrown]

Wrong. There were many issues.

Stop whining and making excuses. You _lost_, for whatever the reason, and elections have consequences. If you want to change the law, win some elections. You know, follow The Constitution. Remember that?

By the way, a solid plurality supports the ACA, and that changes to a solid majority when you simply describe what it does instead of calling it ObamaCare. So lose the BS about how people want it gone. You are part of a minority in every way, trying to use hostage-taking to get your way because you couldn't do it through democracy.

Who's whining? I'm happy with a government shut down. As to your vile despicable theft of my income to pay for your subsidized health insurance. Pitiful.

 

[G.T.]

IT'S NOT THAT "BOTH SIDES REFUSE TO NEGOTIATE." IT'S THAT 'ONE' SIDE REFUSES TO ACCEPT THAT EVERYTHING HAS ALREADY BEEN NEGOTIATED:

As we watch the facade and shameless shenanigans put on by Conservatives, and the willingness of spineless and derelict news agencies (main stream media included) that echo and amplify the Republican message, pretending the latest congressional confrontation taking us to the brink [again] of a government shut down is because "both sides" can't agree, it's important to remember one thing - the Affordable Care ACT (Obamacare, ACA) has already been negotiated and accepted.

For those with amnesia; the ACA was negotiated in 2009 before it became law, when congressional negotiation is supposed to take place. The White House presented a version, as did a number of congressmen - Republicans forced concessions, and what we have today is what was ultimately produced from the synthesis of ideas of our government leaders. That version, which was "negotiated" and agreed upon, was voted into law by CONGRESS. It was upheld by the SUPREME COURT and President Obama ran on it in 2012 and WON the election. His challenger, who ran on repealling it, lost.

What that means, for those still not comprehending, is the ACA is accepted and supported by Congress - it is accepted and supported by the Supreme Court - and it is accepted and supported by the American people. That's what 2009 was all about; figuring out if the ACA was A) legal and desired by Americans, and according to Congress, The Supreme Court and the American electorate, it's a resounding "yes" on both counts - done and done.

The ACA has been being prepared since that time and now that it's ready to start being implemented the Republicans are trying to refight a fight they lost four years ago.

If the government does shut down it won't be because "both sides" refused to negotiate. It will be because there was never anything negotiable in the first place. It will be because there was a group of desperate, depraved Conservatives whose hate for the president far exceeds their sense of duty and concern for the people they were elected to serve.

The Knowledge Movement

With all due respect that is a bunch of gibberish.

It was not negotiated. EVER

Congress OBVIOUSLY does not accept it or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

And I'm wore out from poking holes in the stupid we won meme

It was negotiated.

Insurance Exchanges - Republican Idea
Tax Breaks - Republican Idea
Having it be private insurance based, as opposed to creating single-payer Gov't insurance - Republican Idea
The Individual Mandate - Republican Idea.



Just because they hated Obama and were unwilling to Vote on even their own Amendment ideas does not mean that they weren't negotiated with.

AGAIN I ASK: Why did the Democrats not pass the Democrat party's Gov't based single-payer system? Because they felt like it?

 

[Barb]

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Despite the 6 hour televised circus Obamacare was passed without gop ideas. It was rammed down the throat of the American public through misuse of the Senate rules and without the support of a single member of the gop.

And that's not "weasely"? GTFO

So when the gop someday hold all the majorities and overturn abortion or welfare or WHATEVER strictly along party lines while bending the rules of congress it won't be considered "weasely"?

Without gop ideas?

Insurance exchanges - gop idea
Tax cuts - gop idea
insurance mandate - newt gingrich / heritage foundation co sponsored idea


Dems idea was a clean single payer, but instead, they included gop ideas. How come? They just felt like it?

Because they didn't have support for sucha bill and they knew it. So they had to change it up to bring moderate dems and some repubs into the fold to get it passed. This was also taken up by the senate through another bill where they completely re-wrote the language for the ACA. Since the bill was budgetary appropriations they couldn't write it. You could call that rather weazely. No republican voted for it. None. They have spent years trying to undo it in so.

If the president and dems had a lick of integrity, they wouldn't be asking for a debb ceiling increase in the first place. They would have reduced deficits to where such negotiations weren't warranted. And again, they would have come out looking like the adults. But they need another debt ceiling increase, even though Obama was against it before he was for it, because they overspend and can not pass a budget.

 

[G.T.]

Despite the 6 hour televised circus Obamacare was passed without gop ideas. It was rammed down the throat of the American public through misuse of the Senate rules and without the support of a single member of the gop.

And that's not "weasely"? GTFO

So when the gop someday hold all the majorities and overturn abortion or welfare or WHATEVER strictly along party lines while bending the rules of congress it won't be considered "weasely"?

Without gop ideas?

Insurance exchanges - gop idea
Tax cuts - gop idea
insurance mandate - newt gingrich / heritage foundation co sponsored idea


Dems idea was a clean single payer, but instead, they included gop ideas. How come? They just felt like it?

Because they didn't have support for sucha bill and they knew it. So they had to change it up to bring moderate dems and some repubs into the fold to get it passed. This was also taken up by the senate through another bill where they completely re-wrote the language for the ACA. Since the bill was budgetary appropriations they couldn't write it. You could call that rather weazely. No republican voted for it. None. They have spent years trying to undo it in so.

If the president and dems had a lick of integrity, they wouldn't be asking for a debb ceiling increase in the first place. They would have reduced deficits to where such negotiations weren't warranted. And again, they would have come out looking like the adults. But they need another debt ceiling increase, even though Obama was against it before he was for it, because they overspend and can not pass a budget.

That's called negotiating.

Glad you agree.

They had to include Republican ideas in order to pass it.

So they included them.

And they didn't negotiate.

I dunno man, what is in the water these days?

 

[rightwinger]

Just because you don't give into extortion does not make you responsible

 

[hunarcy]

They are forcing it in the hopes that the gop gets the blame and they cake walk back into control of the house. Party over country.....

No matter how many times you tell that same lie, the public isn't buying it. Ted Cruz owned the shutdown for the GOP. He put his performance art face all over it. Only one party is willing to shut down the government over what they cannot accomplish legislatively and it's not the Democrats.

I know you want to believe that, but all I hear is that the Democrats are "decreeing" that Obamacare must be funded and that they care more about keeping control of how the health care dollars are spent than they care about the country.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Actually, the biggest compromises needed were from moderate Dems. Because the bill taken up by the senate to write ACA was already passed by the house as HR 3590. A tax bill regarding housing for service members. It was their own party they were nogotiating with, not republicans.

 

[G.T.]

Actually, the biggest compromises needed were from moderate Dems. Because the bill taken up by the senate to write ACA was already passed by the house as HR 3590. A tax bill regarding housing for service members. It was their own party they were nogotiating with, not republicans.

Word, so the insurance exchange, the tax breaks, the individual mandate and the private (vs. public) insurance weren't Republican ideas then, is what you're saying?

That means that you don't deal in reality man.

With all due respect.

Because these are hard facts, and you're here denying them.


hello00o0oo0o, Massachussetts

 

[hunarcy]

It was negotiated.

Insurance Exchanges - Republican Idea
Tax Breaks - Republican Idea
Having it be private insurance based, as opposed to creating single-payer Gov't insurance - Republican Idea
The Individual Mandate - Republican Idea.



Just because they hated Obama and were unwilling to Vote on even their own Amendment ideas does not mean that they weren't negotiated with.

AGAIN I ASK: Why did the Democrats not pass the Democrat party's Gov't based single-payer system? Because they felt like it?

Including what you believe was a Republican idea doesn't mean that you are negotiating. It means you are including an idea, whether it was wanted or not. The only neotiating that was done was to get the support of moderate Democrats to obtain a filibuster-proof bill in the Senate.