Democrats, quit blaming the cops

[Trump.Stamped]

So lay out which cases the police should NOT have body armor, helmets, AR15s, etc:

Active Shooter
Riots
High risk search warrants

There is need for specially trained and equipped units to deal with active shooter situations and riots. When such situations exceed the ability of civilian police to handle them that is what the National Guard is intended to be for. We should neither expect nor desire our civilian police to exist or perform in the manner of a military force. We had that sort of situation in the early 1700s in the form of the British Regulars, who wore red coats, just like soldiers.

That was troublesome.

So you would rather have the military involved instead of the police? That makes sense....the police are too military, so lets use the military instead...

 

[GaryDog]

OK, there is a lot to respond to here.

One complaint is that SWAT is used too much for drug raids. There are 2 sides to this issue. Some people seem to think that if you are busting a house "just to bust marijuana dealers" that there is no risk or low risk. That just isn't true. Many times they are armed and are just as big of a danger as meth dealers. So, the next question is, should we make such a big deal out of busting people just for marijuana. We could debate that one all day. Sometimes I agree the risk is not worth the reward, both for the cops and the criminals. However, ask the neighbors of that house if they want the police to intervene or if they want their kids growing up next to a dope house. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Next, who gives a damn if the cargo pants the SWAT team is wearing are camo or all black? Does that really matter? As far as "tanks" the police don't have tanks. They have things such as bearcats, which don't have a cannon on them. That is a big difference. Watch the San Bernardino attack, the bearcats were used to shelter the responding police and civilians.

The bottom line is, the police don't want to die in the line of duty. If they are going to be in situations where they are likely to be shot at, they should have adequate protection.

They do not use SWAT on pot "busts". They use them as an investigatory tool. That is not what SWAT is for.

If you don't know that, you don't have the necessary IQ to be in this discussion.

With respect to wearing combat fatigues, it's been scientifically proven that when people are dressed up for a role, they're psychologically more likely to embody that role. Soldiers are not police forces. They view all other entities as enemies. That is not what we hire cops to do. Nearly everyone the police encounters should be treated as a friendly citizen, with due process rights. That is not the landscape that soldiers in Iraq were trained to inhabit, and we certainly shouldn't enable a soldier-like mindset on American streets.

And finally, I'm sorry, but if you don't call these tanks, you're being horribly disingenuous:

 

[GaryDog]

So lay out which cases the police should NOT have body armor, helmets, AR15s, etc:

Active Shooter
Riots
High risk search warrants

There is need for specially trained and equipped units to deal with active shooter situations and riots. When such situations exceed the ability of civilian police to handle them that is what the National Guard is intended to be for. We should neither expect nor desire our civilian police to exist or perform in the manner of a military force. We had that sort of situation in the early 1700s in the form of the British Regulars, who wore red coats, just like soldiers.

That was troublesome.

So you would rather have the military involved instead of the police? That makes sense....the police are too military, so lets use the military instead...

How about we end the foolishness of the drug war and stop treating our fellow citizens as enemy combatants? There's a wild idea.

This isn't Somalia. Maybe Republicans want it to be, but it's not.

 

[MikeK]

So you would rather have the military involved instead of the police? That makes sense....the police are too military, so lets use the military instead...

I would rather have a trained military unit engaged only when necessary than to have a military-oriented civilian police agency functioning all the time.

In other words I would prefer to have America remain as America rather than have it devolve into something resembling East Germany during the Cold War.

 

[MikeK]

I would argue that the American public is out of hand...

Then do so.

Please be more specific in your argument. I've offered you specific examples which support my thesis. You've presented nothing but a vague opinion.

 

[MikeK]

Out of all that you are concerned about the mask?

Out of all what?

Please don't divert from my question: What's with the masks? Can you offer a rational, logical explanation for them?

 

[MikeK]

OK, there is a lot to respond to here.

One complaint is that SWAT is used too much for drug raids. There are 2 sides to this issue. Some people seem to think that if you are busting a house "just to bust marijuana dealers" that there is no risk or low risk. That just isn't true. Many times they are armed and are just as big of a danger as meth dealers.

Out of the more than one hundred times a day on average that American police conduct these pre-dawn, no-knock, break-in raids, how many actual, documentable incidents can you cite here in which a raider was shot by anyone other than other raiders?

 

[MikeK]

OK, there is a lot to respond to here.

One complaint is that SWAT is used too much for drug raids. There are 2 sides to this issue. Some people seem to think that if you are busting a house "just to bust marijuana dealers" that there is no risk or low risk. That just isn't true. Many times they are armed and are just as big of a danger as meth dealers.

I have never known a meth dealer but I can assure you I have known many marijuana dealers -- not a damn one of whom fits the profile you've presented here.

The simple fact of this matter is there is no good reason to continue the irrational and utterly wrongful persecution of marijuana. I know it, you know it, and those cowboy cops who participate in these break-in marijuana raids who either don't know it or who know it and don't give a damn would, in my opinion, richly deserve to be blown away for busting down someone's door at 3AM.

In the simplest terms, narcs and vice cops are the scumbags of law-enforcement and those who participate in these break-in raids, for any reason other than the arrest of notoriously dangerous people who harm others, are the worst scumbags of all. They do not conform in any way to what my idea of cops are or should be. These are armed goons and I believe they deserve anything that happens to them.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

OK, there is a lot to respond to here.

One complaint is that SWAT is used too much for drug raids. There are 2 sides to this issue. Some people seem to think that if you are busting a house "just to bust marijuana dealers" that there is no risk or low risk. That just isn't true. Many times they are armed and are just as big of a danger as meth dealers. So, the next question is, should we make such a big deal out of busting people just for marijuana. We could debate that one all day. Sometimes I agree the risk is not worth the reward, both for the cops and the criminals. However, ask the neighbors of that house if they want the police to intervene or if they want their kids growing up next to a dope house. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Next, who gives a damn if the cargo pants the SWAT team is wearing are camo or all black? Does that really matter? As far as "tanks" the police don't have tanks. They have things such as bearcats, which don't have a cannon on them. That is a big difference. Watch the San Bernardino attack, the bearcats were used to shelter the responding police and civilians.

The bottom line is, the police don't want to die in the line of duty. If they are going to be in situations where they are likely to be shot at, they should have adequate protection.

They do not use SWAT on pot "busts". They use them as an investigatory tool. That is not what SWAT is for.

If you don't know that, you don't have the necessary IQ to be in this discussion.

With respect to wearing combat fatigues, it's been scientifically proven that when people are dressed up for a role, they're psychologically more likely to embody that role. Soldiers are not police forces. They view all other entities as enemies. That is not what we hire cops to do. Nearly everyone the police encounters should be treated as a friendly citizen, with due process rights. That is not the landscape that soldiers in Iraq were trained to inhabit, and we certainly shouldn't enable a soldier-like mindset on American streets.

And finally, I'm sorry, but if you don't call these tanks, you're being horribly disingenuous:

Considering that I actually have law enforcement experience, have been involved in executing search warrants, have worked with a SWAT team, and have seen first hand the link between drugs and crime, I would say I am more than qualified to partake in this discussion.

Calling an armored vehicle a tank is like calling a twin prop plane a jet fighter. Perhaps it is you that lacks the IQ for this discussion.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

OK, there is a lot to respond to here.

One complaint is that SWAT is used too much for drug raids. There are 2 sides to this issue. Some people seem to think that if you are busting a house "just to bust marijuana dealers" that there is no risk or low risk. That just isn't true. Many times they are armed and are just as big of a danger as meth dealers.

I have never known a meth dealer but I can assure you I have known many marijuana dealers -- not a damn one of whom fits the profile you've presented here.

The simple fact of this matter is there is no good reason to continue the irrational and utterly wrongful persecution of marijuana. I know it, you know it, and those cowboy cops who participate in these break-in marijuana raids who either don't know it or who know it and don't give a damn would, in my opinion, richly deserve to be blown away for busting down someone's door at 3AM.

In the simplest terms, narcs and vice cops are the scumbags of law-enforcement and those who participate in these break-in raids, for any reason other than the arrest of notoriously dangerous people who harm others, are the worst scumbags of all. They do not conform in any way to what my idea of cops are or should be. These are armed goons and I believe they deserve anything that happens to them.

I'm sure you have known many marijuana dealers.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

Out of all that you are concerned about the mask?

Out of all what?

Please don't divert from my question: What's with the masks? Can you offer a rational, logical explanation for them?

Maybe it was cold?

 

[MikeK]

[...]

So, the next question is, should we make such a big deal out of busting people just for marijuana. We could debate that one all day.

[...]

There is no debate -- except for ignorant fools who subscribe to Reefer Madness propaganda. There is no sensible reason for prohibiting the possession and use of marijuana by any free adult American and any cop who doesn't know that is an ignorant moron.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

OK, there is a lot to respond to here.

One complaint is that SWAT is used too much for drug raids. There are 2 sides to this issue. Some people seem to think that if you are busting a house "just to bust marijuana dealers" that there is no risk or low risk. That just isn't true. Many times they are armed and are just as big of a danger as meth dealers.

Out of the more than one hundred times a day on average that American police conduct these pre-dawn, no-knock, break-in raids, how many actual, documentable incidents can you cite here in which a raider was shot by anyone other than other raiders?

Two officers shot, one killed serving search warrant
Allentown officer shot during search warrant
Video: Austin SWAT Officer Shot Executing Search Warrant
Officer, suspect dead in Indiana gunfight; another officer wounded | Fox News
Howard County deputy dies from injuries suffered in overnight shooting
Officer shot while executing search warrant

I could keep going all day if you want me to.

 

[MikeK]

I'm sure you have known many marijuana dealers.

I've also known at least as many cops, probably more.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

[...]

So, the next question is, should we make such a big deal out of busting people just for marijuana. We could debate that one all day.

[...]

There is no debate -- except for ignorant fools who subscribe to Reefer Madness propaganda. There is no sensible reason for prohibiting the possession and use of marijuana by any free adult American and any cop who doesn't know that is an ignorant moron.

Except for the fact that more kids will be using marijuana. Something I have also seen firsthand. Then we end up with more adults like you. That's the last thing we need.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

I'm sure you have known many marijuana dealers.

I've also known at least as many cops, probably more.

I'm sure you have.

 

[MikeK]

Except for the fact that more kids will be using marijuana. Something I have also seen firsthand. Then we end up with more adults like you. That's the last thing we need.

You have seen "first-hand" that legalizing marijuana results in more use by kids?
This is a surprising revelation and I will appreciate you filling us in with some of the details.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

Except for the fact that more kids will be using marijuana. Something I have also seen firsthand. Then we end up with more adults like you. That's the last thing we need.

You have seen "first-hand" that legalizing marijuana results in more use by kids?
This is a surprising revelation and I will appreciate you filling us in with some of the details.

Its called talking to kids. I have had numerous kids tell me that since states like Colorado legalized, it is easier to get, and more kids are doing it. These are kids who got busted. They have no problem sharing because they know the changes that have been made to the juvenile justice system mean there are no consequences for them. They don't care.

I guess we both have our own experiences that lead us to disagree. I spend my time working around kids. Drug use is on the rise. By the estimates that the kids themselves give us, 60-70% of High School kids are smoking pot. That is a BAD thing.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

So lay out which cases the police should NOT have body armor, helmets, AR15s, etc:

Active Shooter
Riots
High risk search warrants

There is need for specially trained and equipped units to deal with active shooter situations and riots. When such situations exceed the ability of civilian police to handle them that is what the National Guard is intended to be for. We should neither expect nor desire our civilian police to exist or perform in the manner of a military force. We had that sort of situation in the early 1700s in the form of the British Regulars, who wore red coats, just like soldiers.

That was troublesome.

So you would rather have the military involved instead of the police? That makes sense....the police are too military, so lets use the military instead...

How about we end the foolishness of the drug war and stop treating our fellow citizens as enemy combatants? There's a wild idea.

This isn't Somalia. Maybe Republicans want it to be, but it's not.

Legalize all drugs in this country and see what happens.

 

[GaryDog]

OK, there is a lot to respond to here.

One complaint is that SWAT is used too much for drug raids. There are 2 sides to this issue. Some people seem to think that if you are busting a house "just to bust marijuana dealers" that there is no risk or low risk. That just isn't true. Many times they are armed and are just as big of a danger as meth dealers.

I have never known a meth dealer but I can assure you I have known many marijuana dealers -- not a damn one of whom fits the profile you've presented here.

The simple fact of this matter is there is no good reason to continue the irrational and utterly wrongful persecution of marijuana. I know it, you know it, and those cowboy cops who participate in these break-in marijuana raids who either don't know it or who know it and don't give a damn would, in my opinion, richly deserve to be blown away for busting down someone's door at 3AM.

In the simplest terms, narcs and vice cops are the scumbags of law-enforcement and those who participate in these break-in raids, for any reason other than the arrest of notoriously dangerous people who harm others, are the worst scumbags of all. They do not conform in any way to what my idea of cops are or should be. These are armed goons and I believe they deserve anything that happens to them.

I'm sure you have known many marijuana dealers.

So have I.

Have you? You say this like that statement should stand on its own in judgment of others. Pot is less dangerous than alcohol. If you know a convenience store owner, then you already know people who are more sordid than pot dealers.