Democrats propose "transaction tax" on financial transactions. (Poll)

[pknopp]

The "flash crash" of 2010 was all due to HFTs. Yet the markets all tanked.

And just as quickly recovered.

Which created distrust in the markets.

 

[Blues Man]

He knows exactly what he will get for his crops if he plants what the government tells him to.

that only applies if we have the government program that you want to cut..

Otherwise the farmer is at risk in ways that I pointed out

Why shouldn't a farmer take the same risks as any other business owner?

 

[kyzr]

Investors buy and hold stock in a company to provide CAPITAL to grow the company.
HFTs use computers to buy/sell in microseconds stealing that CAPITAL.

So if I place an order to buy 10,000 shares of GE, HFTs are stealing
capital from GE or stealing capital from me?

Feel free to explain either scenario that applies.

The HFT computers know how to steal money from investors, its what they do, its all they do.

You seem to be coming from the "zero-sum-game" theory of economics. Not every gain implies someone else's loss.

IMHO when investors buy stocks, and HFTs remove some of that capital via computerized algorithms, that money they removed hurts investors' 401Ks. HFTs make no products, and provide no services, they just rake in investor's cash.

How are they removing it? They are buying it with money, (capitol), and then reselling it, where someone else is buying it with more capitol

People buy stock as an investment, betting that the company will use the money to grow over time.
HFTs buy and sell stock in microseconds using computers to steal the other people's investment.
See the difference? Investors vs thieves.

 

[kyzr]

HFTs use computers to "milk" the investor's capital using computer algorithms to buy/sell in thousandths of a second. The money the HFTs steal should be used by companies to grow and hire people, and increase your 401K.

Not seeing the milking. How does HTF effect long term investments?

Every dollar the HFTs steal comes from our 401Ks.
HFTs sell no products and provide no services, they only steal from our 401Ks.

 

[Blues Man]

HFTs use computers to "milk" the investor's capital using computer algorithms to buy/sell in thousandths of a second. The money the HFTs steal should be used by companies to grow and hire people, and increase your 401K.

Not seeing the milking. How does HTF effect long term investments?

Every dollar the HFTs steal comes from our 401Ks.
HFTs sell no products and provide no services, they only steal from our 401Ks.

No one is stealing from your portfolio.

 

[kyzr]

HFTs use computers to "milk" the investor's capital using computer algorithms to buy/sell in thousadnths of a second.

How did they "milk" money out of your long-term holdings?

Where did the money they make come from?
Did they make a product, or perform a service? <fuck no>
All of the money the HFTs steal comes out of capital provided by investors that companies could use to grow.

Where did the money they make come from?

They buy low and sell higher.

All of the money the HFTs steal comes out of capital provided by investors that companies could use to grow.

Aren't you special?

OK, lets look at the problem from another perspective.
Instead of a "transaction tax" what would happen if new stock purchases had to be held for a minimum of 48-hrs before it could be sold? That would put HFTs on a level playing field with the rest of us.

You okay with a 48-hr "must hold" law instead of the "transaction tax", so the HFT money has to reach the company coffers?
That would preserve the intent of the stock market to provide liquidity, the companies then have time to send the money back. That would stabilize the markets by reducing volatility.

 

[pknopp]

Trump was never and isn't "my guy", there's your first mistake.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What's so damn hard to grasp cutting spending?

Saying it and doing it are two different things and Republicans never do it...nor should they in most cases since there isn't a lot that can be cut without doing great harm...especially now as we try to recover the economy

DOPE

Republican voters do wish to cut spending. We are not pleased that it isn't done despite who is in power. Two questions, do you really believe that spending can't be addressed? Also, despite who is in office, how does a president fix horrible budgets? Isn't a shutdown the only option, and how long could a shutdown last?

It's a hollow claim. The debt went up $8 trillion under Trump but those who claim to want to address debt still voted to re-elect him. Not only that they supported cutting taxes while adding more debt.

I've asked over and over what would be the problem here with adding this tax and using the money to address the debt? A few replied that they don't believe it would be done and that's all well and fine but why don't the Republicans come to the table with this?

One again the thread is about what we would support, not what we think others would do. Very few seem willing to address the massive debt we have accumulated. Seems to me that the best way to get people to get serious about spending is to actually make them pay for that spending.

 

[struth]

Investors buy and hold stock in a company to provide CAPITAL to grow the company.
HFTs use computers to buy/sell in microseconds stealing that CAPITAL.

So if I place an order to buy 10,000 shares of GE, HFTs are stealing
capital from GE or stealing capital from me?

Feel free to explain either scenario that applies.

The HFT computers know how to steal money from investors, its what they do, its all they do.

You seem to be coming from the "zero-sum-game" theory of economics. Not every gain implies someone else's loss.

IMHO when investors buy stocks, and HFTs remove some of that capital via computerized algorithms, that money they removed hurts investors' 401Ks. HFTs make no products, and provide no services, they just rake in investor's cash.

How are they removing it? They are buying it with money, (capitol), and then reselling it, where someone else is buying it with more capitol

People buy stock as an investment, betting that the company will use the money to grow over time.
HFTs buy and sell stock in microseconds using computers to steal the other people's investment.
See the difference? Investors vs thieves.

you have let to explain why it's thief when they are in fact buying, with money, something for sale, and then selling it for money in return.

People buy stocks to make money, some long term, some short term...not sure why you think you have the right to tell people they can't purchase something, or sell their property....and frankly support a tax on people simply doing that.

This tax is going to do nothing but hurt the working class. Sad you support that

 

[Blues Man]

HFTs use computers to "milk" the investor's capital using computer algorithms to buy/sell in thousadnths of a second.

How did they "milk" money out of your long-term holdings?

Where did the money they make come from?
Did they make a product, or perform a service? <fuck no>
All of the money the HFTs steal comes out of capital provided by investors that companies could use to grow.

Where did the money they make come from?

They buy low and sell higher.

All of the money the HFTs steal comes out of capital provided by investors that companies could use to grow.

Aren't you special?

OK, lets look at the problem from another perspective.
Instead of a "transaction tax" what would happen if new stock purchases had to be held for a minimum of 48-hrs before it could be sold? That would put HFTs on a level playing field with the rest of us.

You okay with a 48-hr "must hold" law instead of the "transaction tax"?

What's the difference?

And maybe you can show us how you lost money because some other guy bought and sold a stock quickly.

 

[Blues Man]

Trump was never and isn't "my guy", there's your first mistake.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What's so damn hard to grasp cutting spending?

Saying it and doing it are two different things and Republicans never do it...nor should they in most cases since there isn't a lot that can be cut without doing great harm...especially now as we try to recover the economy

DOPE

Republican voters do wish to cut spending. We are not pleased that it isn't done despite who is in power. Two questions, do you really believe that spending can't be addressed? Also, despite who is in office, how does a president fix horrible budgets? Isn't a shutdown the only option, and how long could a shutdown last?

It's a hollow claim. The debt went up $8 trillion under Trump but those who claim to want to address debt still voted to re-elect him. Not only that they supported cutting taxes while adding more debt.

I've asked over and over what would be the problem here with adding this tax and using the money to address the debt? A few replied that they don't believe it would be done and that's all well and fine but why don't the Republicans come to the table with this?

One again the thread is about what we would support, not what we think others would do. Very few seem willing to address the massive debt we have accumulated. Seems to me that the best way to get people to get serious about spending is to actually make them pay for that spending.

Democrats only care about the debt when republicans are in office and republicans only care about the debt when democrats are in office.

You haven't figured that out yet?

 

[struth]

HFTs use computers to "milk" the investor's capital using computer algorithms to buy/sell in thousandths of a second. The money the HFTs steal should be used by companies to grow and hire people, and increase your 401K.

Not seeing the milking. How does HTF effect long term investments?

Every dollar the HFTs steal comes from our 401Ks.
HFTs sell no products and provide no services, they only steal from our 401Ks.

hahah you really have no clue how the market and money works.....this post just highlights that. Now wonder you are agreeing with this socialist and here new tax on the working class.

This tax will steal money from your 401K but you are ignoring that and falling for the leftist propagandist and looking to blame 'the other guy" that has figured out away to make money on the market

 

[struth]

Trump was never and isn't "my guy", there's your first mistake.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What's so damn hard to grasp cutting spending?

Saying it and doing it are two different things and Republicans never do it...nor should they in most cases since there isn't a lot that can be cut without doing great harm...especially now as we try to recover the economy

DOPE

Republican voters do wish to cut spending. We are not pleased that it isn't done despite who is in power. Two questions, do you really believe that spending can't be addressed? Also, despite who is in office, how does a president fix horrible budgets? Isn't a shutdown the only option, and how long could a shutdown last?

It's a hollow claim. The debt went up $8 trillion under Trump but those who claim to want to address debt still voted to re-elect him. Not only that they supported cutting taxes while adding more debt.

I've asked over and over what would be the problem here with adding this tax and using the money to address the debt? A few replied that they don't believe it would be done and that's all well and fine but why don't the Republicans come to the table with this?

One again the thread is about what we would support, not what we think others would do. Very few seem willing to address the massive debt we have accumulated. Seems to me that the best way to get people to get serious about spending is to actually make them pay for that spending.

The altrnative to Trump was Xiden and the Dems....who are adding massively more then Trump and the GOP.

The debt will always continue to rise until the largest drivers of debt are addressed...entitlements. Only one party, the GOP has attempted to address the issues.

 

[kyzr]

Investors buy and hold stock in a company to provide CAPITAL to grow the company.
HFTs use computers to buy/sell in microseconds stealing that CAPITAL.

So if I place an order to buy 10,000 shares of GE, HFTs are stealing
capital from GE or stealing capital from me?

Feel free to explain either scenario that applies.

The HFT computers know how to steal money from investors, its what they do, its all they do.

You seem to be coming from the "zero-sum-game" theory of economics. Not every gain implies someone else's loss.

IMHO when investors buy stocks, and HFTs remove some of that capital via computerized algorithms, that money they removed hurts investors' 401Ks. HFTs make no products, and provide no services, they just rake in investor's cash.

How are they removing it? They are buying it with money, (capitol), and then reselling it, where someone else is buying it with more capitol

People buy stock as an investment, betting that the company will use the money to grow over time.
HFTs buy and sell stock in microseconds using computers to steal the other people's investment.
See the difference? Investors vs thieves.

you have let to explain why it's thief when they are in fact buying, with money, something for sale, and then selling it for money in return.

People buy stocks to make money, some long term, some short term...not sure why you think you have the right to tell people they can't purchase something, or sell their property....and frankly support a tax on people simply doing that.

This tax is going to do nothing but hurt the working class. Sad you support that

1. You're not getting that HFTs are not "buying and selling" anything. Its all computerized theft done in microseconds.
2. In post #446 I'm proposing that instead of a "transaction tax" that a new law that requires a 48-hr holding period before the stock could be sold. This way money actually transfers back and forth to the company, and then back to the HFTs. Instead of computerized theft in microseconds.
3. Its a matter of fairness. Our 401Ks don't buy/sell in microseconds. Our money stays invested, the HFTs don't "invest" they just steal.
4. You are not taking into account that the money HFTs steal would be returned to investors. The tax won't be noticed by most investors.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

HFTs use computers to "milk" the investor's capital using computer algorithms to buy/sell in thousadnths of a second.

How did they "milk" money out of your long-term holdings?

Where did the money they make come from?
Did they make a product, or perform a service? <fuck no>
All of the money the HFTs steal comes out of capital provided by investors that companies could use to grow.

Where did the money they make come from?

They buy low and sell higher.

All of the money the HFTs steal comes out of capital provided by investors that companies could use to grow.

Aren't you special?

OK, lets look at the problem from another perspective.
Instead of a "transaction tax" what would happen if new stock purchases had to be held for a minimum of 48-hrs before it could be sold? That would put HFTs on a level playing field with the rest of us.

You okay with a 48-hr "must hold" law instead of the "transaction tax", so the HFT money has to reach the company coffers?
That would preserve the intent of the stock market to provide liquidity, the companies then have time to send the money back. That would stabilize the markets by reducing volatility.

You okay with a 48-hr "must hold" law instead of the "transaction tax", so the HFT money has to reach the company coffers?

If I buy 1000 shares of GE this morning at $13.35, how many of my dollars make it into GE's coffers?

If an HFT jumps in to sell them to me, how many fewer dollars make it into GE's coffers?

Be as precise as you can.

 

[pknopp]

Trump was never and isn't "my guy", there's your first mistake.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What's so damn hard to grasp cutting spending?

Saying it and doing it are two different things and Republicans never do it...nor should they in most cases since there isn't a lot that can be cut without doing great harm...especially now as we try to recover the economy

DOPE

Republican voters do wish to cut spending. We are not pleased that it isn't done despite who is in power. Two questions, do you really believe that spending can't be addressed? Also, despite who is in office, how does a president fix horrible budgets? Isn't a shutdown the only option, and how long could a shutdown last?

It's a hollow claim. The debt went up $8 trillion under Trump but those who claim to want to address debt still voted to re-elect him. Not only that they supported cutting taxes while adding more debt.

I've asked over and over what would be the problem here with adding this tax and using the money to address the debt? A few replied that they don't believe it would be done and that's all well and fine but why don't the Republicans come to the table with this?

One again the thread is about what we would support, not what we think others would do. Very few seem willing to address the massive debt we have accumulated. Seems to me that the best way to get people to get serious about spending is to actually make them pay for that spending.

Democrats only care about the debt when republicans are in office and republicans only care about the debt when democrats are in office.

You haven't figured that out yet?

I rarely see the Democrats even mention the debt. I'm not sure which is the worse case. Not caring at all or pretending to care.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Investors buy and hold stock in a company to provide CAPITAL to grow the company.
HFTs use computers to buy/sell in microseconds stealing that CAPITAL.

So if I place an order to buy 10,000 shares of GE, HFTs are stealing
capital from GE or stealing capital from me?

Feel free to explain either scenario that applies.

The HFT computers know how to steal money from investors, its what they do, its all they do.

You seem to be coming from the "zero-sum-game" theory of economics. Not every gain implies someone else's loss.

IMHO when investors buy stocks, and HFTs remove some of that capital via computerized algorithms, that money they removed hurts investors' 401Ks. HFTs make no products, and provide no services, they just rake in investor's cash.

How are they removing it? They are buying it with money, (capitol), and then reselling it, where someone else is buying it with more capitol

People buy stock as an investment, betting that the company will use the money to grow over time.
HFTs buy and sell stock in microseconds using computers to steal the other people's investment.
See the difference? Investors vs thieves.

you have let to explain why it's thief when they are in fact buying, with money, something for sale, and then selling it for money in return.

People buy stocks to make money, some long term, some short term...not sure why you think you have the right to tell people they can't purchase something, or sell their property....and frankly support a tax on people simply doing that.

This tax is going to do nothing but hurt the working class. Sad you support that

1. You're not getting that HFTs are not "buying and selling" anything. Its all computerized theft done in microseconds.
2. In post #446 I'm proposing that instead of a "transaction tax" that a new law that requires a 48-hr holding period before the stock could be sold. This way money actually transfers back and forth to the company, and then back to the HFTs. Instead of computerized theft in microseconds.
3. Its a matter of fairness. Our 401Ks don't buy/sell in microseconds. Our money stays invested, the HFTs don't "invest" they just steal.
4. You are not taking into account that the money HFTs steal would be returned to investors. The tax won't be noticed by most investors.

You're not getting that HFTs are not "buying and selling" anything. Its all computerized theft done in microseconds.

Did you ever say if market-makers are also thieves?

 

[kyzr]

HFTs use computers to "milk" the investor's capital using computer algorithms to buy/sell in thousadnths of a second.

How did they "milk" money out of your long-term holdings?

Where did the money they make come from?
Did they make a product, or perform a service? <fuck no>
All of the money the HFTs steal comes out of capital provided by investors that companies could use to grow.

Where did the money they make come from?

They buy low and sell higher.

All of the money the HFTs steal comes out of capital provided by investors that companies could use to grow.

Aren't you special?

OK, lets look at the problem from another perspective.
Instead of a "transaction tax" what would happen if new stock purchases had to be held for a minimum of 48-hrs before it could be sold? That would put HFTs on a level playing field with the rest of us.

You okay with a 48-hr "must hold" law instead of the "transaction tax"?

What's the difference?

And maybe you can show us how you lost money because some other guy bought and sold a stock quickly.

1. The "difference" is that a "transaction tax" would hit all investors, some like HFTs much harder than others.
2. The 48-hr "must hold" period also hits HFTs harder than most investors, because their money would be tied up, like ours is. They would not be doing "flash trades" in microseconds, stealing our investments.
3. When we buy a stock the money transfers to the company. When an HFT buys a stock and then sells it in microseconds, no money changes hands, its just HFTs skimming our investments.

 

[Blues Man]

Investors buy and hold stock in a company to provide CAPITAL to grow the company.
HFTs use computers to buy/sell in microseconds stealing that CAPITAL.

So if I place an order to buy 10,000 shares of GE, HFTs are stealing
capital from GE or stealing capital from me?

Feel free to explain either scenario that applies.

The HFT computers know how to steal money from investors, its what they do, its all they do.

You seem to be coming from the "zero-sum-game" theory of economics. Not every gain implies someone else's loss.

IMHO when investors buy stocks, and HFTs remove some of that capital via computerized algorithms, that money they removed hurts investors' 401Ks. HFTs make no products, and provide no services, they just rake in investor's cash.

How are they removing it? They are buying it with money, (capitol), and then reselling it, where someone else is buying it with more capitol

People buy stock as an investment, betting that the company will use the money to grow over time.
HFTs buy and sell stock in microseconds using computers to steal the other people's investment.
See the difference? Investors vs thieves.

you have let to explain why it's thief when they are in fact buying, with money, something for sale, and then selling it for money in return.

People buy stocks to make money, some long term, some short term...not sure why you think you have the right to tell people they can't purchase something, or sell their property....and frankly support a tax on people simply doing that.

This tax is going to do nothing but hurt the working class. Sad you support that

1. You're not getting that HFTs are not "buying and selling" anything. Its all computerized theft done in microseconds.
2. In post #446 I'm proposing that instead of a "transaction tax" that a new law that requires a 48-hr holding period before the stock could be sold. This way money actually transfers back and forth to the company, and then back to the HFTs. Instead of computerized theft in microseconds.
3. Its a matter of fairness. Our 401Ks don't buy/sell in microseconds. Our money stays invested, the HFTs don't "invest" they just steal.
4. You are not taking into account that the money HFTs steal would be returned to investors. The tax won't be noticed by most investors.

It is not theft it is a purchase and a sale it doesn't matter how quickly it's done

So why don't you tell me how much was "stolen" from your portfolio because someone mad e a purchase and a sale in less than a second?

 

[kyzr]

Investors buy and hold stock in a company to provide CAPITAL to grow the company.
HFTs use computers to buy/sell in microseconds stealing that CAPITAL.

So if I place an order to buy 10,000 shares of GE, HFTs are stealing
capital from GE or stealing capital from me?

Feel free to explain either scenario that applies.

The HFT computers know how to steal money from investors, its what they do, its all they do.

You seem to be coming from the "zero-sum-game" theory of economics. Not every gain implies someone else's loss.

IMHO when investors buy stocks, and HFTs remove some of that capital via computerized algorithms, that money they removed hurts investors' 401Ks. HFTs make no products, and provide no services, they just rake in investor's cash.

How are they removing it? They are buying it with money, (capitol), and then reselling it, where someone else is buying it with more capitol

People buy stock as an investment, betting that the company will use the money to grow over time.
HFTs buy and sell stock in microseconds using computers to steal the other people's investment.
See the difference? Investors vs thieves.

you have let to explain why it's thief when they are in fact buying, with money, something for sale, and then selling it for money in return.

People buy stocks to make money, some long term, some short term...not sure why you think you have the right to tell people they can't purchase something, or sell their property....and frankly support a tax on people simply doing that.

This tax is going to do nothing but hurt the working class. Sad you support that

1. You're not getting that HFTs are not "buying and selling" anything. Its all computerized theft done in microseconds.
2. In post #446 I'm proposing that instead of a "transaction tax" that a new law that requires a 48-hr holding period before the stock could be sold. This way money actually transfers back and forth to the company, and then back to the HFTs. Instead of computerized theft in microseconds.
3. Its a matter of fairness. Our 401Ks don't buy/sell in microseconds. Our money stays invested, the HFTs don't "invest" they just steal.
4. You are not taking into account that the money HFTs steal would be returned to investors. The tax won't be noticed by most investors.

You're not getting that HFTs are not "buying and selling" anything. Its all computerized theft done in microseconds.

Did you ever say if market-makers are also thieves?

Please stop dodging my posts., I posted 4 items, please answer all 4.

 

[pknopp]

Trump was never and isn't "my guy", there's your first mistake.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What's so damn hard to grasp cutting spending?

Saying it and doing it are two different things and Republicans never do it...nor should they in most cases since there isn't a lot that can be cut without doing great harm...especially now as we try to recover the economy

DOPE

Republican voters do wish to cut spending. We are not pleased that it isn't done despite who is in power. Two questions, do you really believe that spending can't be addressed? Also, despite who is in office, how does a president fix horrible budgets? Isn't a shutdown the only option, and how long could a shutdown last?

It's a hollow claim. The debt went up $8 trillion under Trump but those who claim to want to address debt still voted to re-elect him. Not only that they supported cutting taxes while adding more debt.

I've asked over and over what would be the problem here with adding this tax and using the money to address the debt? A few replied that they don't believe it would be done and that's all well and fine but why don't the Republicans come to the table with this?

One again the thread is about what we would support, not what we think others would do. Very few seem willing to address the massive debt we have accumulated. Seems to me that the best way to get people to get serious about spending is to actually make them pay for that spending.

The altrnative to Trump was Xiden and the Dems....who are adding massively more then Trump and the GOP.

The Republicans had a long list of candidates in 2016 when they chose Trump. When a candidate does the opposite of what he promised they should loose support also.

Under Trump we had $8 trillion in debt. Trump supporters voted for more of that and now complain about the debt. The complaints fall on deaf ears.

The debt will always continue to rise until the largest drivers of debt are addressed...entitlements. Only one party, the GOP has attempted to address the issues.

Nobody is more entitled than the war machinery.

Seeing that the citizens can eat and or see a doctor when they need to, bad. Lying our way into wars with countries that do nothing to us, good.