Democrats Need to Drop the Gun-Control Issue

[2aguy]

Yeah...he knows........he likes to post it just to irritate me.............

 

[JoeB131]

“Gun ownership is particularly high compared to other common items. For example, in 813 itemized male inventories from the 1774 Jones national database, guns are listed in 54% of estates, compared to only 30% of estates listing any cash,…”

Except most people didn't leave "estates"... that was the thing. If you had an estate, you were among the property owning elite.

Now, this is an important point, because in the days of the Founding Slave Rapists, they saw "the people" as white, land owning males, which was a small fraction of the population.

A gun in those days cost as much as a skilled artisan's monthly wages, for a device that didn't have that much utility. they weren't really good for hunting.

It wasn't until later in the 18th century that guns were mass produced and became more common. In fact, the NRA was originally founded because a Union General was horrified about how UNSKILLED with guns most Northern men were.

 

[JoeB131]

Moron......I gave you the actual new study he did where he changed the number from 43 to 2.7........you can lie, but I gave you the actual study........you idiot.

Yeah, except the study wasn't done by Kellerman, all they did was say, if you take out the suicides, the number goes down to 2.7 homicides to 1 criminal homicide. That wasn't the point, really. The fact is, a gun in the house made a suicide possible. Sure that person COULD have found other methods, but they are all less effective and more trouble, so a household without guns would have a lesser change of suicide.

I've known of three people who committed suicide. Two used guns, one walked in front of a train.

 

[JoeB131]

Moron......I gave you the actual new study he did where he changed the number from 43 to 2.7........you can lie, but I gave you the actual study........you idiot.

You vote for the political party of the people you call slave rapists...you idiot....

Um, sorry, Dick Tiny, there were no "Democrats" in 1787. There were Federalists and Democratic-Republicans. The Democratic Party really didn't become "a thing" until Andrew Jackson. The Federalists, Democratic Republicans and Whigs also supported slavery.

Guns in colonial times were not rare, you doofus....you tried to use the Michael Bellesiles book as your source...until I posted the fact that he had his award pulled and was fired for lying in his book about guns being rare.....

Most Americans Did Not Own Guns at the Start of the American Revolution

By Harry Schenawolf, author of the Shades of Liberty Series about African American soldiers in the American Revolution. Remember that scene in The Patriot where Mel Gibson scooped up a bunch of gun…

www.revolutionarywarjournal.com

Colonials were farmers and had no need to nor did they hunt. Only a very small percentage of the population actually acquired their food through wild game. This is as incredible as it sounds, and unbelievable after generations of text and later media portrayals of colonial Americans as wilderness warriors. But the truth is, our forefathers obtained their meat the same way their relatives did in Europe, from domestic livestock. They were farmers. They spent long hours on their farms, tilling the soil and raising crops and all the animals necessary to feed their families. The chores were numerous and lasted all day and all year long. They had no time to wonder through wooded lands, carrying an expensive musket that cost an entire year’s earnings which was also notoriously inaccurate, hoping to find large game that was far more scarce than today. Oh, and forget about grove bored rifles. They were even more expensive and rare, made by a small number of gunsmiths in America who still had to import the firing mechanism from Europe. Besides, the forests were heavily wooded. Getting off a good shot that wouldn’t be deflected by all the vegetation was nearly impossible. So why bother even owning a gun when all you had to do is raise some beef cattle, a few cows, some hogs, and chickens and walk out to the barn and slaughter all the meat needed. Even frontier communities and settlers brought their livestock with them. And as for hunting – they too found it time consuming and less productive, trying to bag large game in the tight forests. Most brought in wild meat for their family’s consumption by trapping small game which proved much more efficient to supplement their slaughtered livestock.

This is why we don't take assholes like you seriously....the truth, facts and reality don't support anything you believe or say, and then, when we show that the facts, truth and reality don't support anything you believe or say, you continue to lie.......

Guy, the problem is that you cling to your mythologies about guns being common and useful, when they really weren't.

 

[Hollie]

“Gun ownership is particularly high compared to other common items. For example, in 813 itemized male inventories from the 1774 Jones national database, guns are listed in 54% of estates, compared to only 30% of estates listing any cash,…”

Except most people didn't leave "estates"... that was the thing. If you had an estate, you were among the property owning elite.

Now, this is an important point, because in the days of the Founding Slave Rapists, they saw "the people" as white, land owning males, which was a small fraction of the population.

A gun in those days cost as much as a skilled artisan's monthly wages, for a device that didn't have that much utility. they weren't really good for hunting.

It wasn't until later in the 18th century that guns were mass produced and became more common. In fact, the NRA was originally founded because a Union General was horrified about how UNSKILLED with guns most Northern men were.

You’re desperately trying to cover for your fraudulent, invented claims. The data was presented to you, the data confounded your bogus, “… because I say so”, claims so you’re hoping to do damage control for your wounded ego.

 

[Hollie]

Moron......I gave you the actual new study he did where he changed the number from 43 to 2.7........you can lie, but I gave you the actual study........you idiot.

You vote for the political party of the people you call slave rapists...you idiot....

Um, sorry, Dick Tiny, there were no "Democrats" in 1787. There were Federalists and Democratic-Republicans. The Democratic Party really didn't become "a thing" until Andrew Jackson. The Federalists, Democratic Republicans and Whigs also supported slavery.

Guns in colonial times were not rare, you doofus....you tried to use the Michael Bellesiles book as your source...until I posted the fact that he had his award pulled and was fired for lying in his book about guns being rare.....

Most Americans Did Not Own Guns at the Start of the American Revolution

By Harry Schenawolf, author of the Shades of Liberty Series about African American soldiers in the American Revolution. Remember that scene in The Patriot where Mel Gibson scooped up a bunch of gun…

www.revolutionarywarjournal.com

Colonials were farmers and had no need to nor did they hunt. Only a very small percentage of the population actually acquired their food through wild game. This is as incredible as it sounds, and unbelievable after generations of text and later media portrayals of colonial Americans as wilderness warriors. But the truth is, our forefathers obtained their meat the same way their relatives did in Europe, from domestic livestock. They were farmers. They spent long hours on their farms, tilling the soil and raising crops and all the animals necessary to feed their families. The chores were numerous and lasted all day and all year long. They had no time to wonder through wooded lands, carrying an expensive musket that cost an entire year’s earnings which was also notoriously inaccurate, hoping to find large game that was far more scarce than today. Oh, and forget about grove bored rifles. They were even more expensive and rare, made by a small number of gunsmiths in America who still had to import the firing mechanism from Europe. Besides, the forests were heavily wooded. Getting off a good shot that wouldn’t be deflected by all the vegetation was nearly impossible. So why bother even owning a gun when all you had to do is raise some beef cattle, a few cows, some hogs, and chickens and walk out to the barn and slaughter all the meat needed. Even frontier communities and settlers brought their livestock with them. And as for hunting – they too found it time consuming and less productive, trying to bag large game in the tight forests. Most brought in wild meat for their family’s consumption by trapping small game which proved much more efficient to supplement their slaughtered livestock.

This is why we don't take assholes like you seriously....the truth, facts and reality don't support anything you believe or say, and then, when we show that the facts, truth and reality don't support anything you believe or say, you continue to lie.......

Guy, the problem is that you cling to your mythologies about guns being common and useful, when they really weren't.

Leftists guy, I found it comical that you abandoned your earlier bending and scraping before the Altar of Michael Bellesiles and decided to plow new furrows in the field of the left.

https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1489&context=wmlr

Page 3 of 67.,
“The picture of gun ownership that emerges from these analyses substantially contradicts the assertions of Michael Bellesiles in Arming America: The Origins of a National Gun Culture (Arming America). Contrary to Arming America's claims about probate inventories in seventeenth and eighteenth-century America, there were high numbers of guns, guns were much more common than swords or other edged weapons, women in 1774 owned guns at rates (18%) higher than Bellesiles claimed men did in 1765-1790 (14.7%), and 87-91% of gun-owning estates listed at least one gun that was not old or broken.

 

[2aguy]

“Gun ownership is particularly high compared to other common items. For example, in 813 itemized male inventories from the 1774 Jones national database, guns are listed in 54% of estates, compared to only 30% of estates listing any cash,…”

Except most people didn't leave "estates"... that was the thing. If you had an estate, you were among the property owning elite.

Now, this is an important point, because in the days of the Founding Slave Rapists, they saw "the people" as white, land owning males, which was a small fraction of the population.

A gun in those days cost as much as a skilled artisan's monthly wages, for a device that didn't have that much utility. they weren't really good for hunting.

It wasn't until later in the 18th century that guns were mass produced and became more common. In fact, the NRA was originally founded because a Union General was horrified about how UNSKILLED with guns most Northern men were.

They didn't leave estates....the gun was simply passed to the next of kin, you idiot...here....your dad's dead, here's his rifle.....you moron.

 

[2aguy]

Moron......I gave you the actual new study he did where he changed the number from 43 to 2.7........you can lie, but I gave you the actual study........you idiot.

You vote for the political party of the people you call slave rapists...you idiot....

Um, sorry, Dick Tiny, there were no "Democrats" in 1787. There were Federalists and Democratic-Republicans. The Democratic Party really didn't become "a thing" until Andrew Jackson. The Federalists, Democratic Republicans and Whigs also supported slavery.

Guns in colonial times were not rare, you doofus....you tried to use the Michael Bellesiles book as your source...until I posted the fact that he had his award pulled and was fired for lying in his book about guns being rare.....

Most Americans Did Not Own Guns at the Start of the American Revolution

By Harry Schenawolf, author of the Shades of Liberty Series about African American soldiers in the American Revolution. Remember that scene in The Patriot where Mel Gibson scooped up a bunch of gun…

www.revolutionarywarjournal.com

Colonials were farmers and had no need to nor did they hunt. Only a very small percentage of the population actually acquired their food through wild game. This is as incredible as it sounds, and unbelievable after generations of text and later media portrayals of colonial Americans as wilderness warriors. But the truth is, our forefathers obtained their meat the same way their relatives did in Europe, from domestic livestock. They were farmers. They spent long hours on their farms, tilling the soil and raising crops and all the animals necessary to feed their families. The chores were numerous and lasted all day and all year long. They had no time to wonder through wooded lands, carrying an expensive musket that cost an entire year’s earnings which was also notoriously inaccurate, hoping to find large game that was far more scarce than today. Oh, and forget about grove bored rifles. They were even more expensive and rare, made by a small number of gunsmiths in America who still had to import the firing mechanism from Europe. Besides, the forests were heavily wooded. Getting off a good shot that wouldn’t be deflected by all the vegetation was nearly impossible. So why bother even owning a gun when all you had to do is raise some beef cattle, a few cows, some hogs, and chickens and walk out to the barn and slaughter all the meat needed. Even frontier communities and settlers brought their livestock with them. And as for hunting – they too found it time consuming and less productive, trying to bag large game in the tight forests. Most brought in wild meat for their family’s consumption by trapping small game which proved much more efficient to supplement their slaughtered livestock.

This is why we don't take assholes like you seriously....the truth, facts and reality don't support anything you believe or say, and then, when we show that the facts, truth and reality don't support anything you believe or say, you continue to lie.......

Guy, the problem is that you cling to your mythologies about guns being common and useful, when they really weren't.

Shit bird.....the democrat party was founded by actual slave owners, in particular, Andrew Jackson and another guy.....you support the actual political party of slave rapists to this day....you moron.

 

[2aguy]

Moron......I gave you the actual new study he did where he changed the number from 43 to 2.7........you can lie, but I gave you the actual study........you idiot.

You vote for the political party of the people you call slave rapists...you idiot....

Um, sorry, Dick Tiny, there were no "Democrats" in 1787. There were Federalists and Democratic-Republicans. The Democratic Party really didn't become "a thing" until Andrew Jackson. The Federalists, Democratic Republicans and Whigs also supported slavery.

Guns in colonial times were not rare, you doofus....you tried to use the Michael Bellesiles book as your source...until I posted the fact that he had his award pulled and was fired for lying in his book about guns being rare.....

Most Americans Did Not Own Guns at the Start of the American Revolution

By Harry Schenawolf, author of the Shades of Liberty Series about African American soldiers in the American Revolution. Remember that scene in The Patriot where Mel Gibson scooped up a bunch of gun…

www.revolutionarywarjournal.com

Colonials were farmers and had no need to nor did they hunt. Only a very small percentage of the population actually acquired their food through wild game. This is as incredible as it sounds, and unbelievable after generations of text and later media portrayals of colonial Americans as wilderness warriors. But the truth is, our forefathers obtained their meat the same way their relatives did in Europe, from domestic livestock. They were farmers. They spent long hours on their farms, tilling the soil and raising crops and all the animals necessary to feed their families. The chores were numerous and lasted all day and all year long. They had no time to wonder through wooded lands, carrying an expensive musket that cost an entire year’s earnings which was also notoriously inaccurate, hoping to find large game that was far more scarce than today. Oh, and forget about grove bored rifles. They were even more expensive and rare, made by a small number of gunsmiths in America who still had to import the firing mechanism from Europe. Besides, the forests were heavily wooded. Getting off a good shot that wouldn’t be deflected by all the vegetation was nearly impossible. So why bother even owning a gun when all you had to do is raise some beef cattle, a few cows, some hogs, and chickens and walk out to the barn and slaughter all the meat needed. Even frontier communities and settlers brought their livestock with them. And as for hunting – they too found it time consuming and less productive, trying to bag large game in the tight forests. Most brought in wild meat for their family’s consumption by trapping small game which proved much more efficient to supplement their slaughtered livestock.

This is why we don't take assholes like you seriously....the truth, facts and reality don't support anything you believe or say, and then, when we show that the facts, truth and reality don't support anything you believe or say, you continue to lie.......

Guy, the problem is that you cling to your mythologies about guns being common and useful, when they really weren't.

The attempt to change reality to enforce gun control knows no limits.........guns were an essential part of colonial life....considering the chances of indian raids, you doofus..........

 

[2aguy]

Moron...

Moron......I gave you the actual new study he did where he changed the number from 43 to 2.7........you can lie, but I gave you the actual study........you idiot.

Yeah, except the study wasn't done by Kellerman, all they did was say, if you take out the suicides, the number goes down to 2.7 homicides to 1 criminal homicide. That wasn't the point, really. The fact is, a gun in the house made a suicide possible. Sure that person COULD have found other methods, but they are all less effective and more trouble, so a household without guns would have a lesser change of suicide.

I've known of three people who committed suicide. Two used guns, one walked in front of a train.

Kellerman got caught, and changed his number...but still didn't change the underlying flawed data he used to get to that number..........

The Japanese, commit suicide just fine without guns....as do many european countries that have higher suicide rates than the U.S.......

Funny how many people who know you commit suicide.....

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Shit bird.....the democrat party was founded by actual slave owners, in particular, Andrew Jackson and another guy.....you support the actual political party of slave rapists to this day....you moron.

And in fact, Incel Joe's generalization of the founding fathers as “slave rapists” is off-target.

I'd love to be able to say that they all opposed slavery, but that's not true. Slavery was controversial, at that time. Though the Constitution doers not directly address slavery, it contains a few provisions that were compromises between those who supported slavery, and those who opposed it.

But, as you point out, Incel Joe is most aligned with those who supported slavery.

Funny how many people who know you commit suicide.....

It stands out, in a more general sense, that the experiences that Incel Joe claims to have had, regarding other people, are not those that most of us have, in our dealings with normal people. No surprise, given that he's rather obviously a criminal and a mental case, that he hangs out with those similar to himself, and therefore sees the sort of issues that he sees; and then assumes that normal, decent, mainstream Americans are no different that himself and the scum with whom he associates.

 

[JoeB131]

You’re desperately trying to cover for your fraudulent, invented claims. The data was presented to you, the data confounded your bogus, “… because I say so”, claims so you’re hoping to do damage control for your wounded ego.

No, dummy, it's just a matter of history and technology. Guns were expensive in 1776 and just not terribly useful.

Muskets were only effective militarily when fired in volley. Then they had to resort to fighting with bayonets. The colonists had few guns, they had to import them from France, which bankrupted itself supporting our war effort.

Leftists guy, I found it comical that you abandoned your earlier bending and scraping before the Altar of Michael Bellesiles and decided to plow new furrows in the field of the left.

Not at all. Just pointing out that the myth of the minuteman is exactly that.

They didn't leave estates....the gun was simply passed to the next of kin, you idiot...here....your dad's dead, here's his rifle.....you moron.

More like "your dad is dead, he didn't have a rifle because it would have cost more than a year's salary and he was dirt poor, like you are."

Shit bird.....the democrat party was founded by actual slave owners, in particular, Andrew Jackson and another guy.....you support the actual political party of slave rapists to this day....you moron.

So where the Federalists, the Whigs, and the Democratic-Republicans... This country was built on slavery. I know, this hurts your feelings, and don't you dare ever teach Critical Race Theory, because, um, reasons.

Getting back to guns, the purpose of the guns was to maintain white supremacy. Rich WHITE people were supposed to have guns, not the unwashed rabble.

The attempt to change reality to enforce gun control knows no limits.........guns were an essential part of colonial life....considering the chances of indian raids, you doofus..........

"Indian Raids". Uh, guy, the Native Americans weren't the perpetrators of violence, they were the VICTIMS. We genocided the fuck out of those poor bastards, but usually, it was done at the point of GOVERNMENT guns, not private guns. In fact, it was illegal to sell weapons to Native Americans.

Kellerman got caught, and changed his number...but still didn't change the underlying flawed data he used to get to that number..........

Kellerman clarified, but the numbers still don't tell the fantasies you want about playing Batman.

The Japanese, commit suicide just fine without guns....as do many european countries that have higher suicide rates than the U.S.......

The Japanese live in a culture where suicide is acceptable. We don't.

Funny how many people who know you commit suicide.....

I said "people I know of". One was a neighbor I barely talked to. The other was a child of a friend I never met personally. The third person was a clinically depressed person who I met once or twice. (She was an in-law of a good friend.)

But leave it to you and Mormon Bob to make light of other people's tragedies... Hey, speaking of Mormon Creeps.

I'd love to be able to say that they all opposed slavery, but that's not true. Slavery was controversial, at that time. Though the Constitution doers not directly address slavery, it contains a few provisions that were compromises between those who supported slavery, and those who opposed it.

Guy, the Constitution specifically says slaves count as 3/5th of a white person. It also prohibited the Federal Government from preventing the importation of new slaves at a time when the British were stomping out the slave trade. (Section 1, Article 9).

Interpretation: The Slave Trade Clause | Constitution Center

Interpretations of The Slave Trade Clause by constitutional scholars

constitutioncenter.org

The more fundamental problem is that the Founding Fathers talked all this flowerly language about "All Men being created equal", but still put in a bunch of laws allowing the continuation of slavery.

We can also talk about how Brigham Young tried to bring Utah into the Union as a slave state.

It stands out, in a more general sense, that the experiences that @Incel Joe claims to have had, regarding other people, are not those that most of us have, in our dealings with normal people. No surprise, given that he's rather obviously a criminal and a mental case, that he hangs out with those similar to himself, and therefore sees the sort of issues that he sees; and then assumes that normal, decent, mainstream Americans are no different that himself and the scum with whom he associates.

Wow, you see, this is why I have kind of contempt for you, the lack of compassion.

My neighbor who killed himself was suffering from cancer, and couldn't afford medical treatment. He was in extreme pain every day. Yes, he was poor, but that didn't make him a bad person. Just kind of tragic.

This is why real Christians don't consider Mormons to be Christian, because you fucks are pretty much the opposite about what Jesus talked about.

 

[Hollie]

You’re desperately trying to cover for your fraudulent, invented claims. The data was presented to you, the data confounded your bogus, “… because I say so”, claims so you’re hoping to do damage control for your wounded ego.

No, dummy, it's just a matter of history and technology. Guns were expensive in 1776 and just not terribly useful.

Muskets were only effective militarily when fired in volley. Then they had to resort to fighting with bayonets. The colonists had few guns, they had to import them from France, which bankrupted itself supporting our war effort.

Leftists guy, I found it comical that you abandoned your earlier bending and scraping before the Altar of Michael Bellesiles and decided to plow new furrows in the field of the left.

Not at all. Just pointing out that the myth of the minuteman is exactly that.

They didn't leave estates....the gun was simply passed to the next of kin, you idiot...here....your dad's dead, here's his rifle.....you moron.

More like "your dad is dead, he didn't have a rifle because it would have cost more than a year's salary and he was dirt poor, like you are."

Shit bird.....the democrat party was founded by actual slave owners, in particular, Andrew Jackson and another guy.....you support the actual political party of slave rapists to this day....you moron.

So where the Federalists, the Whigs, and the Democratic-Republicans... This country was built on slavery. I know, this hurts your feelings, and don't you dare ever teach Critical Race Theory, because, um, reasons.

Getting back to guns, the purpose of the guns was to maintain white supremacy. Rich WHITE people were supposed to have guns, not the unwashed rabble.

The attempt to change reality to enforce gun control knows no limits.........guns were an essential part of colonial life....considering the chances of indian raids, you doofus..........

"Indian Raids". Uh, guy, the Native Americans weren't the perpetrators of violence, they were the VICTIMS. We genocided the fuck out of those poor bastards, but usually, it was done at the point of GOVERNMENT guns, not private guns. In fact, it was illegal to sell weapons to Native Americans.

Kellerman got caught, and changed his number...but still didn't change the underlying flawed data he used to get to that number..........

Kellerman clarified, but the numbers still don't tell the fantasies you want about playing Batman.

The Japanese, commit suicide just fine without guns....as do many european countries that have higher suicide rates than the U.S.......

The Japanese live in a culture where suicide is acceptable. We don't.

Funny how many people who know you commit suicide.....

I said "people I know of". One was a neighbor I barely talked to. The other was a child of a friend I never met personally. The third person was a clinically depressed person who I met once or twice. (She was an in-law of a good friend.)

But leave it to you and Mormon Bob to make light of other people's tragedies... Hey, speaking of Mormon Creeps.

I'd love to be able to say that they all opposed slavery, but that's not true. Slavery was controversial, at that time. Though the Constitution doers not directly address slavery, it contains a few provisions that were compromises between those who supported slavery, and those who opposed it.

Guy, the Constitution specifically says slaves count as 3/5th of a white person. It also prohibited the Federal Government from preventing the importation of new slaves at a time when the British were stomping out the slave trade. (Section 1, Article 9).

Interpretation: The Slave Trade Clause | Constitution Center

Interpretations of The Slave Trade Clause by constitutional scholars

constitutioncenter.org

The more fundamental problem is that the Founding Fathers talked all this flowerly language about "All Men being created equal", but still put in a bunch of laws allowing the continuation of slavery.

We can also talk about how Brigham Young tried to bring Utah into the Union as a slave state.

It stands out, in a more general sense, that the experiences that @Incel Joe claims to have had, regarding other people, are not those that most of us have, in our dealings with normal people. No surprise, given that he's rather obviously a criminal and a mental case, that he hangs out with those similar to himself, and therefore sees the sort of issues that he sees; and then assumes that normal, decent, mainstream Americans are no different that himself and the scum with whom he associates.

Wow, you see, this is why I have kind of contempt for you, the lack of compassion.

My neighbor who killed himself was suffering from cancer, and couldn't afford medical treatment. He was in extreme pain every day. Yes, he was poor, but that didn't make him a bad person. Just kind of tragic.

This is why real Christians don't consider Mormons to be Christian, because you fucks are pretty much the opposite about what Jesus talked about.

As we see with regularity, the angry leftist insists that his "...because I say so" commandments are to be taken seriously.

Guns were common among the pre-revolutionary settlers as the data shows. When you have a rabid leftist narrative to press, facts don't matter.

 

[JoeB131]

As we see with regularity, the angry leftist insists that his "...because I say so" commandments are to be taken seriously.

Guns were common among the pre-revolutionary settlers as the data shows. When you have a rabid leftist narrative to press, facts don't matter.

They data doesn't show that at all, in fact, it shows quite the opposite.

Here's the thing. Guns were really expensive in colonial America. They were in fact a luxury item. A simple musket cost as much as a skilled artisan's monthly wages.

Now, when was the last time you spent a months wages on a single item? The only time we do that today is when we buy something like a home or a car.

So we have no established that if you were a simple dirt farmer or a skilled artisan, you really couldn't afford a gun. The next question becomes, did you need one.

Well, again, they weren't useful for hunting. They just weren't that accurate. They didn't use them for protection from Native Americans. When they wanted to steal native land, they sent in the military.

 

[Hollie]

As we see with regularity, the angry leftist insists that his "...because I say so" commandments are to be taken seriously.

Guns were common among the pre-revolutionary settlers as the data shows. When you have a rabid leftist narrative to press, facts don't matter.

They data doesn't show that at all, in fact, it shows quite the opposite.

Here's the thing. Guns were really expensive in colonial America. They were in fact a luxury item. A simple musket cost as much as a skilled artisan's monthly wages.

Now, when was the last time you spent a months wages on a single item? The only time we do that today is when we buy something like a home or a car.

So we have no established that if you were a simple dirt farmer or a skilled artisan, you really couldn't afford a gun. The next question becomes, did you need one.

Well, again, they weren't useful for hunting. They just weren't that accurate. They didn't use them for protection from Native Americans. When they wanted to steal native land, they sent in the military.

Actually, the data shows clearly that guns were commonly owned among the pre-revolutionary settlers. Ignoring the data won't make it go away.

Well, again, your "...because I say so" claims are not usefull outside of the orbit of rabid leftists.

 

[2aguy]

You’re desperately trying to cover for your fraudulent, invented claims. The data was presented to you, the data confounded your bogus, “… because I say so”, claims so you’re hoping to do damage control for your wounded ego.

No, dummy, it's just a matter of history and technology. Guns were expensive in 1776 and just not terribly useful.

Muskets were only effective militarily when fired in volley. Then they had to resort to fighting with bayonets. The colonists had few guns, they had to import them from France, which bankrupted itself supporting our war effort.

Leftists guy, I found it comical that you abandoned your earlier bending and scraping before the Altar of Michael Bellesiles and decided to plow new furrows in the field of the left.

Not at all. Just pointing out that the myth of the minuteman is exactly that.

They didn't leave estates....the gun was simply passed to the next of kin, you idiot...here....your dad's dead, here's his rifle.....you moron.

More like "your dad is dead, he didn't have a rifle because it would have cost more than a year's salary and he was dirt poor, like you are."

Shit bird.....the democrat party was founded by actual slave owners, in particular, Andrew Jackson and another guy.....you support the actual political party of slave rapists to this day....you moron.

So where the Federalists, the Whigs, and the Democratic-Republicans... This country was built on slavery. I know, this hurts your feelings, and don't you dare ever teach Critical Race Theory, because, um, reasons.

Getting back to guns, the purpose of the guns was to maintain white supremacy. Rich WHITE people were supposed to have guns, not the unwashed rabble.

The attempt to change reality to enforce gun control knows no limits.........guns were an essential part of colonial life....considering the chances of indian raids, you doofus..........

"Indian Raids". Uh, guy, the Native Americans weren't the perpetrators of violence, they were the VICTIMS. We genocided the fuck out of those poor bastards, but usually, it was done at the point of GOVERNMENT guns, not private guns. In fact, it was illegal to sell weapons to Native Americans.

Kellerman got caught, and changed his number...but still didn't change the underlying flawed data he used to get to that number..........

Kellerman clarified, but the numbers still don't tell the fantasies you want about playing Batman.

The Japanese, commit suicide just fine without guns....as do many european countries that have higher suicide rates than the U.S.......

The Japanese live in a culture where suicide is acceptable. We don't.

Funny how many people who know you commit suicide.....

I said "people I know of". One was a neighbor I barely talked to. The other was a child of a friend I never met personally. The third person was a clinically depressed person who I met once or twice. (She was an in-law of a good friend.)

But leave it to you and Mormon Bob to make light of other people's tragedies... Hey, speaking of Mormon Creeps.

I'd love to be able to say that they all opposed slavery, but that's not true. Slavery was controversial, at that time. Though the Constitution doers not directly address slavery, it contains a few provisions that were compromises between those who supported slavery, and those who opposed it.

Guy, the Constitution specifically says slaves count as 3/5th of a white person. It also prohibited the Federal Government from preventing the importation of new slaves at a time when the British were stomping out the slave trade. (Section 1, Article 9).

Interpretation: The Slave Trade Clause | Constitution Center

Interpretations of The Slave Trade Clause by constitutional scholars

constitutioncenter.org

The more fundamental problem is that the Founding Fathers talked all this flowerly language about "All Men being created equal", but still put in a bunch of laws allowing the continuation of slavery.

We can also talk about how Brigham Young tried to bring Utah into the Union as a slave state.

It stands out, in a more general sense, that the experiences that @Incel Joe claims to have had, regarding other people, are not those that most of us have, in our dealings with normal people. No surprise, given that he's rather obviously a criminal and a mental case, that he hangs out with those similar to himself, and therefore sees the sort of issues that he sees; and then assumes that normal, decent, mainstream Americans are no different that himself and the scum with whom he associates.

Wow, you see, this is why I have kind of contempt for you, the lack of compassion.

My neighbor who killed himself was suffering from cancer, and couldn't afford medical treatment. He was in extreme pain every day. Yes, he was poor, but that didn't make him a bad person. Just kind of tragic.

This is why real Christians don't consider Mormons to be Christian, because you fucks are pretty much the opposite about what Jesus talked about.

"Indian Raids". Uh, guy, the Native Americans weren't the perpetrators of violence, they were the VICTIMS.


You are an idiot...

Native raiding parties attacked homesteads and villages throughout Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, and Maine over the next six months, and the Colonial militia retaliated. The Narragansetts remained neutral, but several individual Narragansetts participated in raids of colonial strongholds and militia, so colonial leaders deemed them to be in violation of peace treaties.
-----
They pushed back the colonial frontier in Massachusetts Bay, Plymouth, and Rhode Island colonies, burning towns as they went, including Providence in March 1676.
-----
The war was the greatest calamity in seventeenth-century New England and is considered by many to be the deadliest war in Colonial American history.[9] In the space of little more than a year, 12 of the region's towns were destroyed and many more were damaged, the economy of Plymouth and Rhode Island Colonies was all but ruined and their population was decimated, losing one-tenth of all men available for military service.[10][a] More than half of New England's towns were attacked by Natives.[12] Hundreds of Wampanoags and their allies were publicly executed or enslaved, and the Wampanoags were left effectively landless.[13]
----

Southern theater, 1675[edit]​

Raid on Swansea[edit]​

A band of Pokanokets attacked several isolated homesteads in the small Plymouth colony settlement of Swansea on June 20, 1675.[22] They laid siege to the town, then destroyed it five days later and killed several more people. On June 27, 1675, a full eclipse of the moon occurred in the New England area,[23] and various tribes in New England thought it a good omen for attacking the colonists.[24] Officials from the Plymouth and Massachusetts Bay colonies responded quickly to the attacks on Swansea; on June 28, they sent a punitive military expedition that destroyed the Wampanoag town at Mount Hope in Bristol, Rhode Island.

The war quickly spread and soon involved the Podunk and Nipmuc tribes. During the summer of 1675, the Natives attacked at Middleborough and Dartmouth, Massachusetts (July 8), Mendon, Massachusetts (July 14), Brookfield, Massachusetts (August 2), and Lancaster, Massachusetts (August 9). In early September, they attacked Deerfield, Hadley, and Northfield, Massachusetts.

King Philip's War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[2aguy]

You’re desperately trying to cover for your fraudulent, invented claims. The data was presented to you, the data confounded your bogus, “… because I say so”, claims so you’re hoping to do damage control for your wounded ego.

No, dummy, it's just a matter of history and technology. Guns were expensive in 1776 and just not terribly useful.

Muskets were only effective militarily when fired in volley. Then they had to resort to fighting with bayonets. The colonists had few guns, they had to import them from France, which bankrupted itself supporting our war effort.

Leftists guy, I found it comical that you abandoned your earlier bending and scraping before the Altar of Michael Bellesiles and decided to plow new furrows in the field of the left.

Not at all. Just pointing out that the myth of the minuteman is exactly that.

They didn't leave estates....the gun was simply passed to the next of kin, you idiot...here....your dad's dead, here's his rifle.....you moron.

More like "your dad is dead, he didn't have a rifle because it would have cost more than a year's salary and he was dirt poor, like you are."

Shit bird.....the democrat party was founded by actual slave owners, in particular, Andrew Jackson and another guy.....you support the actual political party of slave rapists to this day....you moron.

So where the Federalists, the Whigs, and the Democratic-Republicans... This country was built on slavery. I know, this hurts your feelings, and don't you dare ever teach Critical Race Theory, because, um, reasons.

Getting back to guns, the purpose of the guns was to maintain white supremacy. Rich WHITE people were supposed to have guns, not the unwashed rabble.

The attempt to change reality to enforce gun control knows no limits.........guns were an essential part of colonial life....considering the chances of indian raids, you doofus..........

"Indian Raids". Uh, guy, the Native Americans weren't the perpetrators of violence, they were the VICTIMS. We genocided the fuck out of those poor bastards, but usually, it was done at the point of GOVERNMENT guns, not private guns. In fact, it was illegal to sell weapons to Native Americans.

Kellerman got caught, and changed his number...but still didn't change the underlying flawed data he used to get to that number..........

Kellerman clarified, but the numbers still don't tell the fantasies you want about playing Batman.

The Japanese, commit suicide just fine without guns....as do many european countries that have higher suicide rates than the U.S.......

The Japanese live in a culture where suicide is acceptable. We don't.

Funny how many people who know you commit suicide.....

I said "people I know of". One was a neighbor I barely talked to. The other was a child of a friend I never met personally. The third person was a clinically depressed person who I met once or twice. (She was an in-law of a good friend.)

But leave it to you and Mormon Bob to make light of other people's tragedies... Hey, speaking of Mormon Creeps.

I'd love to be able to say that they all opposed slavery, but that's not true. Slavery was controversial, at that time. Though the Constitution doers not directly address slavery, it contains a few provisions that were compromises between those who supported slavery, and those who opposed it.

Guy, the Constitution specifically says slaves count as 3/5th of a white person. It also prohibited the Federal Government from preventing the importation of new slaves at a time when the British were stomping out the slave trade. (Section 1, Article 9).

Interpretation: The Slave Trade Clause | Constitution Center

Interpretations of The Slave Trade Clause by constitutional scholars

constitutioncenter.org

The more fundamental problem is that the Founding Fathers talked all this flowerly language about "All Men being created equal", but still put in a bunch of laws allowing the continuation of slavery.

We can also talk about how Brigham Young tried to bring Utah into the Union as a slave state.

It stands out, in a more general sense, that the experiences that @Incel Joe claims to have had, regarding other people, are not those that most of us have, in our dealings with normal people. No surprise, given that he's rather obviously a criminal and a mental case, that he hangs out with those similar to himself, and therefore sees the sort of issues that he sees; and then assumes that normal, decent, mainstream Americans are no different that himself and the scum with whom he associates.

Wow, you see, this is why I have kind of contempt for you, the lack of compassion.

My neighbor who killed himself was suffering from cancer, and couldn't afford medical treatment. He was in extreme pain every day. Yes, he was poor, but that didn't make him a bad person. Just kind of tragic.

This is why real Christians don't consider Mormons to be Christian, because you fucks are pretty much the opposite about what Jesus talked about.

The democrat party was founded by slave owners, you idiot.......and it went on to push to get slaves in new states, to restart the slave trade with Africa, and then started the Civil War to keep slaves...you idiot...

You support the only political party that started a Civil War to keep slaves, you doofus.

 

[2aguy]

You’re desperately trying to cover for your fraudulent, invented claims. The data was presented to you, the data confounded your bogus, “… because I say so”, claims so you’re hoping to do damage control for your wounded ego.

No, dummy, it's just a matter of history and technology. Guns were expensive in 1776 and just not terribly useful.

Muskets were only effective militarily when fired in volley. Then they had to resort to fighting with bayonets. The colonists had few guns, they had to import them from France, which bankrupted itself supporting our war effort.

Leftists guy, I found it comical that you abandoned your earlier bending and scraping before the Altar of Michael Bellesiles and decided to plow new furrows in the field of the left.

Not at all. Just pointing out that the myth of the minuteman is exactly that.

They didn't leave estates....the gun was simply passed to the next of kin, you idiot...here....your dad's dead, here's his rifle.....you moron.

More like "your dad is dead, he didn't have a rifle because it would have cost more than a year's salary and he was dirt poor, like you are."

Shit bird.....the democrat party was founded by actual slave owners, in particular, Andrew Jackson and another guy.....you support the actual political party of slave rapists to this day....you moron.

So where the Federalists, the Whigs, and the Democratic-Republicans... This country was built on slavery. I know, this hurts your feelings, and don't you dare ever teach Critical Race Theory, because, um, reasons.

Getting back to guns, the purpose of the guns was to maintain white supremacy. Rich WHITE people were supposed to have guns, not the unwashed rabble.

The attempt to change reality to enforce gun control knows no limits.........guns were an essential part of colonial life....considering the chances of indian raids, you doofus..........

"Indian Raids". Uh, guy, the Native Americans weren't the perpetrators of violence, they were the VICTIMS. We genocided the fuck out of those poor bastards, but usually, it was done at the point of GOVERNMENT guns, not private guns. In fact, it was illegal to sell weapons to Native Americans.

Kellerman got caught, and changed his number...but still didn't change the underlying flawed data he used to get to that number..........

Kellerman clarified, but the numbers still don't tell the fantasies you want about playing Batman.

The Japanese, commit suicide just fine without guns....as do many european countries that have higher suicide rates than the U.S.......

The Japanese live in a culture where suicide is acceptable. We don't.

Funny how many people who know you commit suicide.....

I said "people I know of". One was a neighbor I barely talked to. The other was a child of a friend I never met personally. The third person was a clinically depressed person who I met once or twice. (She was an in-law of a good friend.)

But leave it to you and Mormon Bob to make light of other people's tragedies... Hey, speaking of Mormon Creeps.

I'd love to be able to say that they all opposed slavery, but that's not true. Slavery was controversial, at that time. Though the Constitution doers not directly address slavery, it contains a few provisions that were compromises between those who supported slavery, and those who opposed it.

Guy, the Constitution specifically says slaves count as 3/5th of a white person. It also prohibited the Federal Government from preventing the importation of new slaves at a time when the British were stomping out the slave trade. (Section 1, Article 9).

Interpretation: The Slave Trade Clause | Constitution Center

Interpretations of The Slave Trade Clause by constitutional scholars

constitutioncenter.org

The more fundamental problem is that the Founding Fathers talked all this flowerly language about "All Men being created equal", but still put in a bunch of laws allowing the continuation of slavery.

We can also talk about how Brigham Young tried to bring Utah into the Union as a slave state.

It stands out, in a more general sense, that the experiences that @Incel Joe claims to have had, regarding other people, are not those that most of us have, in our dealings with normal people. No surprise, given that he's rather obviously a criminal and a mental case, that he hangs out with those similar to himself, and therefore sees the sort of issues that he sees; and then assumes that normal, decent, mainstream Americans are no different that himself and the scum with whom he associates.

Wow, you see, this is why I have kind of contempt for you, the lack of compassion.

My neighbor who killed himself was suffering from cancer, and couldn't afford medical treatment. He was in extreme pain every day. Yes, he was poor, but that didn't make him a bad person. Just kind of tragic.

This is why real Christians don't consider Mormons to be Christian, because you fucks are pretty much the opposite about what Jesus talked about.

The Japanese live in a culture where suicide is acceptable. We don't.

One....it doesn't matter if they think it is acceptable..you say guns make it easier to commit suicide, you dumb ass......they have a higher suicide rate than we do and they don't use guns, you idiot.......

Besides that.....

Two.........And yet Scotland has a higher suicide rate than the U.S......Japan, where only criminals and cops have guns, has a higher suicide rate than the U.S....Sweden has a higher suicide rate than the U.S....Denmark has a higher suicide rate than the u.S.....



France

Germany,

Hungary

Iceland

New Zealand

Poland

Norway

Japan

South Korea



https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html



Scotland..



15.7 suicides per 100,000

In 2019?

16.7 suicides per 100,000.

And in the U.S.?

13.93 per 100,000

 

[2aguy]

As we see with regularity, the angry leftist insists that his "...because I say so" commandments are to be taken seriously.

Guns were common among the pre-revolutionary settlers as the data shows. When you have a rabid leftist narrative to press, facts don't matter.

They data doesn't show that at all, in fact, it shows quite the opposite.

Here's the thing. Guns were really expensive in colonial America. They were in fact a luxury item. A simple musket cost as much as a skilled artisan's monthly wages.

Now, when was the last time you spent a months wages on a single item? The only time we do that today is when we buy something like a home or a car.

So we have no established that if you were a simple dirt farmer or a skilled artisan, you really couldn't afford a gun. The next question becomes, did you need one.

Well, again, they weren't useful for hunting. They just weren't that accurate. They didn't use them for protection from Native Americans. When they wanted to steal native land, they sent in the military.

Idiot.....guns were vital to surviving in the wilderness...you moron........not to forget that each man had to provide a musket for his militia service... a private weapon with enough powder and shot...you moron.

 

[DrLove]

Great post, and it would appear we have bipartisan agreement!