Democrat Rep on CNN: We don't want Small Businesses

[Bobob]

Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) told CNN in an interview on Sunday that he and presumably other Democrats “don’t want low-wage” small businesses as he advocated for increasing the minimum wage. “We don’t want low-wage businesses,” he said when asked if mom and pop shops should be forced to pay employees more. “I think most successful small businesses can pay a fair wage.”

Democrat Rep. Ro Khanna: ‘We Don’t Want Low-Wage’ Small Businesses That Pay Less Than $15 Minimum Wage | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

No beating around the bush there. The Rich and big-time Corporations only. F these local businesses who don't succeed by economies of scale. No open market of ideas. If you can't pay what I think you should, you should be erased.

The latest daily example of Leftist totalitarianism.

Once again, you fools add one plus one, and come up with five.

The Representative did NOT say that Democrats want to eliminate small businesses, YOU DID. He said that Democrats want businesses to pay a living wage.

Please stop putting words into peoples' mouths that they did not say. It's just another way of lying.

Right wingers are simply disingenuous about raising the minimum wage. Businesses pass on costs to the consumer all the time. It seems right wingers only have a problem with that capitalist modus operandi when the Poor may benefit.

Many times business cannot pass on the costs to the consumer simply because they will lose their competitiveness in the market. That is a major reason why our manufacturing base has moved out.

 

[danielpalos]

Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) told CNN in an interview on Sunday that he and presumably other Democrats “don’t want low-wage” small businesses as he advocated for increasing the minimum wage. “We don’t want low-wage businesses,” he said when asked if mom and pop shops should be forced to pay employees more. “I think most successful small businesses can pay a fair wage.”

Democrat Rep. Ro Khanna: ‘We Don’t Want Low-Wage’ Small Businesses That Pay Less Than $15 Minimum Wage | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

No beating around the bush there. The Rich and big-time Corporations only. F these local businesses who don't succeed by economies of scale. No open market of ideas. If you can't pay what I think you should, you should be erased.

The latest daily example of Leftist totalitarianism.

Once again, you fools add one plus one, and come up with five.

The Representative did NOT say that Democrats want to eliminate small businesses, YOU DID. He said that Democrats want businesses to pay a living wage.

Please stop putting words into peoples' mouths that they did not say. It's just another way of lying.

Right wingers are simply disingenuous about raising the minimum wage. Businesses pass on costs to the consumer all the time. It seems right wingers only have a problem with that capitalist modus operandi when the Poor may benefit.

Many times business cannot pass on the costs to the consumer simply because they will lose their competitiveness in the market. That is a major reason why our manufacturing base has moved out.

That is one of the most disingenuous arguments I have heard regarding this issue simply because a Statutory increase also affects all of their competitors.

 

[Bobob]

Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) told CNN in an interview on Sunday that he and presumably other Democrats “don’t want low-wage” small businesses as he advocated for increasing the minimum wage. “We don’t want low-wage businesses,” he said when asked if mom and pop shops should be forced to pay employees more. “I think most successful small businesses can pay a fair wage.”

Democrat Rep. Ro Khanna: ‘We Don’t Want Low-Wage’ Small Businesses That Pay Less Than $15 Minimum Wage | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

No beating around the bush there. The Rich and big-time Corporations only. F these local businesses who don't succeed by economies of scale. No open market of ideas. If you can't pay what I think you should, you should be erased.

The latest daily example of Leftist totalitarianism.

Once again, you fools add one plus one, and come up with five.

The Representative did NOT say that Democrats want to eliminate small businesses, YOU DID. He said that Democrats want businesses to pay a living wage.

Please stop putting words into peoples' mouths that they did not say. It's just another way of lying.

Right wingers are simply disingenuous about raising the minimum wage. Businesses pass on costs to the consumer all the time. It seems right wingers only have a problem with that capitalist modus operandi when the Poor may benefit.

Many times business cannot pass on the costs to the consumer simply because they will lose their competitiveness in the market. That is a major reason why our manufacturing base has moved out.

That is one of the most disingenuous arguments I have heard regarding this issue simply because a Statutory increase also affects all of their competitors.

Hardly disingenuous since the cost of doing business is different for each company. Some can and some cannot, so they move or close.

 

[berg80]

Taxpayers are subsidizing some company's bottom lines.

Walmart and McDonald's are among top employers of Medicaid and food stamp beneficiaries, report says

Walmart and McDonald's are among the top employers of beneficiaries of Medicaid and food stamps, according to a GAO study commissioned by Sen. Bernie Sanders.

www.cnbc.com

 

[danielpalos]

Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) told CNN in an interview on Sunday that he and presumably other Democrats “don’t want low-wage” small businesses as he advocated for increasing the minimum wage. “We don’t want low-wage businesses,” he said when asked if mom and pop shops should be forced to pay employees more. “I think most successful small businesses can pay a fair wage.”

Democrat Rep. Ro Khanna: ‘We Don’t Want Low-Wage’ Small Businesses That Pay Less Than $15 Minimum Wage | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

No beating around the bush there. The Rich and big-time Corporations only. F these local businesses who don't succeed by economies of scale. No open market of ideas. If you can't pay what I think you should, you should be erased.

The latest daily example of Leftist totalitarianism.

Once again, you fools add one plus one, and come up with five.

The Representative did NOT say that Democrats want to eliminate small businesses, YOU DID. He said that Democrats want businesses to pay a living wage.

Please stop putting words into peoples' mouths that they did not say. It's just another way of lying.

Right wingers are simply disingenuous about raising the minimum wage. Businesses pass on costs to the consumer all the time. It seems right wingers only have a problem with that capitalist modus operandi when the Poor may benefit.

Many times business cannot pass on the costs to the consumer simply because they will lose their competitiveness in the market. That is a major reason why our manufacturing base has moved out.

That is one of the most disingenuous arguments I have heard regarding this issue simply because a Statutory increase also affects all of their competitors.

Hardly disingenuous since the cost of doing business is different for each company. Some can and some cannot, so they move or close.

Why would that be, but for lousy management? And, price inflation happens all the time, businesses pass on those costs to their consumers whenever they can, with no problem; why only a problem when the Poor may benefit? And, higher paid labor can create more demand while paying more taxes.

 

[Bobob]

Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) told CNN in an interview on Sunday that he and presumably other Democrats “don’t want low-wage” small businesses as he advocated for increasing the minimum wage. “We don’t want low-wage businesses,” he said when asked if mom and pop shops should be forced to pay employees more. “I think most successful small businesses can pay a fair wage.”

Democrat Rep. Ro Khanna: ‘We Don’t Want Low-Wage’ Small Businesses That Pay Less Than $15 Minimum Wage | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

No beating around the bush there. The Rich and big-time Corporations only. F these local businesses who don't succeed by economies of scale. No open market of ideas. If you can't pay what I think you should, you should be erased.

The latest daily example of Leftist totalitarianism.

Once again, you fools add one plus one, and come up with five.

The Representative did NOT say that Democrats want to eliminate small businesses, YOU DID. He said that Democrats want businesses to pay a living wage.

Please stop putting words into peoples' mouths that they did not say. It's just another way of lying.

Right wingers are simply disingenuous about raising the minimum wage. Businesses pass on costs to the consumer all the time. It seems right wingers only have a problem with that capitalist modus operandi when the Poor may benefit.

Many times business cannot pass on the costs to the consumer simply because they will lose their competitiveness in the market. That is a major reason why our manufacturing base has moved out.

That is one of the most disingenuous arguments I have heard regarding this issue simply because a Statutory increase also affects all of their competitors.

Hardly disingenuous since the cost of doing business is different for each company. Some can and some cannot, so they move or close.

Why would that be, but for lousy management? And, price inflation happens all the time, businesses pass on those costs to their consumers whenever they can, with no problem; why only a problem when the Poor may benefit? And, higher paid labor can create more demand while paying more taxes.

Not necessarily due to lousy management. Good management and low cash flow
are why that could be. Have you ever had to meet a payroll out of your personal bank account because the company account can't cover it?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Taxpayers are subsidizing some company's bottom lines.

Walmart and McDonald's are among top employers of Medicaid and food stamp beneficiaries, report says

Walmart and McDonald's are among the top employers of beneficiaries of Medicaid and food stamps, according to a GAO study commissioned by Sen. Bernie Sanders.

www.cnbc.com

Taxpayers are subsidizing some company's bottom lines.

Would Medicaid and food stamp spending be higher or lower if Walmart and McDonalds didn't employ those workers?

 

[Andylusion]

Wages should be set according to the real productive value of the work done by the employee.

If a person is 'low skilled', but their labor producing large profits for their employer, then they should be well paid.

No I disagree with that even.

Because for example, the cost to opening a McDonald's store, averages around $2.5 Million dollars.

The average McDonald's store owner, has invested a million dollars of their own personal money... and they have borrowed another million and a half. And then you think that the burger flipper should paid well for what?

McDonald's stores fail all the time too. The store I worked at in high school is closed.

If that store closes, I being the owner now am $1.5 Million in debt, and I lost the $1 Million I invested... but you the burger flipper think you should be paid well? For what?

If the business fails you lost nothing. I lost millions. You will leave without any debt from the business. I'll end up with $1.5 Million in debt from the business.

You simply find another job. I end up in bankruptcy, or a lien on the house, and spending years paying bankers.

Not to mention the fact that in the event there is a problem, who do they call? You, the low-wage employee? Or me the owner of the store? You don't own the responsibility of anything. I do.

And lets not forget that the business owners and CEO, are often working 50 to 70 hours a week, while you put in 40 hours and leave.

So this idea that you should be paid tons of money for low value work.... just because it generates more wealth... no. I don't buy that at all.

Y'know, people always go on about "McDonald's is a big corporation, so I'm SURE they can afford to pay their burger flippers $15 an hour." Truth is, McDonald's Corporation actually operates very few of the McDonald's restaurants. Their primary business is franchising. Most of the stores are individually-owned and -operated. They are, in fact, small businesses working on a small profit margin with, most likely, not a lot of capital to act as a cushion.

So I was working at Wendy's back in high school. I remember talking with the manager of the store, who said the store had lost money that month.

Now obviously they didn't lose money every month, but we had a bad month, and we had gone over budget on food costs, and didn't make up for it with additional sales.

It just so happened that that very same month, there was a huge story in the papers about how Wendy's had posted record profits, and everyone in the store was talking about how they should get a pay raise, because Wendy's posted a huge profit.

I remember being confused about what to think, because I saw the story and knew Wendy's had posted huge profits, but here people were asking to get a raise when the store we were at posted a loss.

Of course I did not understand then, what I do now, that every franchise, and indeed even ever store, has it's own budget, it's own profit and loss, and it's own wages to pay.

Even if the store is owned by the the corporate itself, rather than a franchisee... it still is run like a completely separate business.
The company isn't going to pay out to keep a store open, that is losing money. If the store loses money, they close it. Why would you keep a business going that is losing money?

So this idea that X.corp made a profit, so I should get a pay raise when my store I work for is losing money... no. That's not a thing.

 

[Andylusion]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

Since most schools are not profit making businesses it's irrelevant to the conversation. No one is there to make money for the school. Any more deflections?

.

Haha, these aren’t deflections these are examples of low wage jobs that aren’t directly related to making money for a business. You’ve been trying to make the point that an employee is only worth what they can bring in. I’m showing you thats BS. Get it now?

You don't think a farm hand picking veggies, or a janitor cleaning the office, is directly related to the business makring money? Really?

Of course they are...you need farrm hands to help pick or produce the product you take to market.

You need a clean office to bring in customers....

Of course they all play a part in the business. But the question was being asked about value. I asked who determines the value of an employee? The people I was conversing with implied that it was dependent on the revenue they bring in so I cited examples of jobs that don’t bring in revenue. They are an expense and part of the overall operations of the business

The market....what janitors at similar businesses in the same locality are being paid, for farmhands, what similar farm hands in the same locality, at the same type of farm are being paid.

Obviously if they are good at their job, and gain experience the employer will want to reward them to keep them...pay them more, treat them well....move them up to other positions etc.

But even then, there is still a limit. No matter how much 'experience' you gain, and no matter how 'good they are at their job'.... you still can't pay someone more money than they generate in value.

If I hire you to mow lawns for my lawn mowing company, and the customer is only willing to pay me $30 to have the lawn mowed... I can't pay you the employee $30.

Can't do it. I would end up losing money. Doesn't matter how experienced you are. Doesn't matter how good at mowing you are.

If customer doesn't pay me more, then I can't pay you more.

If I did pay you more, then I would be losing money, and why would I do that? If I can't pay you less, then it would be better for me to not hiring you, and not mow the customers lawn, than to mow the lawn, and pay you so much that I lost money.

Would you do that? Would you pay for a mower, to get paid $30, to pay me $30, and end up earning nothing? No you would not. No one would.

I don’t think the pro pile of supply and demand are in debate right now. The debate is about what the minimum bar for entry level pay should be. Everything else y’all are saying about business operations, wages, value and revenue all still applies

What I'm saying is, if you raise the bar for entry level pay..... that does not mean the customer is going to be willing to pay whatever that bar is.

If the customer refuses to pay me more than $30 to have a lawn mowed, then I can't pay you the employee $30.... even if you government decides that the minimum bar should be $30.

The result is, I lay you off, and you earn zero. If I can't employ you profitably, and profitably enough to make it worth my effort... then I won't do it. And you will not be employed.

That's why the real solution is for people with low-value labor, to move to something of higher value, not and force employers to pay high value wages, for low value work. That's a fail. Doesn't work.

 

[Andylusion]

Actually, it would be great if everyone could share in the profits....

Why don't you invest your paychecks in the company you work for where you can become part owner, then be on call day and night to help it suceed, where you can get a piece of the pie???

Actually I own a small business. And I pay my workers $15 already

And you do so, because you can, because whatever product or service you are provide to the customer, is high enough value that the customer pays you enough to do that.

Problem is, not all businesses provide high enough value of labor, to get customers to pay enough to afford $15/hour.

 

[Andylusion]

I simply said that anybody working full time should get paid enough to stay above the poverty line and off government assistance.

Someone working full time at minimum wage is above the poverty line.

What do you consider the poverty line?

What do you consider the poverty line?

I don't believe in a poverty line....but the Federal government says it's $12,880 for one person.

Does that sound reasonable to you? $12,880 as a poverty line for one persons annual earnings?

As I said, I don't believe in a poverty line....

Haha. Well there is one, so let me know when you make it back to reality and we can discuss

Yes, there is one. I don't see how it's very useful.
The government says it's $12,880.
If you think it's unreasonable, write your congressman.
Let me know what they say.

Oh I’m not personally too concerned with it. I pay my people much more than $15 an hour and hope most other business owners act responsibly and do the same. Those that don’t and take advantage of workers are the ones that will cause the government to step in and regulate it

And there lies the road to tyranny.

How so?

Easy. Gov't Mandates lead to Gov't CONTROL. Need I 'Splain more?

Haha. That’s a dumb point. That would be like me saying deregulation leads to anarchy.

Deregulation leads to FREEDOM.

Which leads to anarchy, right??

No of course not.

 

[Andylusion]

Taxpayers are subsidizing some company's bottom lines.

Walmart and McDonald's are among top employers of Medicaid and food stamp beneficiaries, report says

Walmart and McDonald's are among the top employers of beneficiaries of Medicaid and food stamps, according to a GAO study commissioned by Sen. Bernie Sanders.

www.cnbc.com

Not true. How much Medicaid and food stamps would they collect if they had no job at all?

 

[Slade3200]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

Since most schools are not profit making businesses it's irrelevant to the conversation. No one is there to make money for the school. Any more deflections?

.

Haha, these aren’t deflections these are examples of low wage jobs that aren’t directly related to making money for a business. You’ve been trying to make the point that an employee is only worth what they can bring in. I’m showing you thats BS. Get it now?

You don't think a farm hand picking veggies, or a janitor cleaning the office, is directly related to the business makring money? Really?

Of course they are...you need farrm hands to help pick or produce the product you take to market.

You need a clean office to bring in customers....

Of course they all play a part in the business. But the question was being asked about value. I asked who determines the value of an employee? The people I was conversing with implied that it was dependent on the revenue they bring in so I cited examples of jobs that don’t bring in revenue. They are an expense and part of the overall operations of the business

The market....what janitors at similar businesses in the same locality are being paid, for farmhands, what similar farm hands in the same locality, at the same type of farm are being paid.

Obviously if they are good at their job, and gain experience the employer will want to reward them to keep them...pay them more, treat them well....move them up to other positions etc.

But even then, there is still a limit. No matter how much 'experience' you gain, and no matter how 'good they are at their job'.... you still can't pay someone more money than they generate in value.

If I hire you to mow lawns for my lawn mowing company, and the customer is only willing to pay me $30 to have the lawn mowed... I can't pay you the employee $30.

Can't do it. I would end up losing money. Doesn't matter how experienced you are. Doesn't matter how good at mowing you are.

If customer doesn't pay me more, then I can't pay you more.

If I did pay you more, then I would be losing money, and why would I do that? If I can't pay you less, then it would be better for me to not hiring you, and not mow the customers lawn, than to mow the lawn, and pay you so much that I lost money.

Would you do that? Would you pay for a mower, to get paid $30, to pay me $30, and end up earning nothing? No you would not. No one would.

I don’t think the pro pile of supply and demand are in debate right now. The debate is about what the minimum bar for entry level pay should be. Everything else y’all are saying about business operations, wages, value and revenue all still applies

What I'm saying is, if you raise the bar for entry level pay..... that does not mean the customer is going to be willing to pay whatever that bar is.

If the customer refuses to pay me more than $30 to have a lawn mowed, then I can't pay you the employee $30.... even if you government decides that the minimum bar should be $30.

The result is, I lay you off, and you earn zero. If I can't employ you profitably, and profitably enough to make it worth my effort... then I won't do it. And you will not be employed.

That's why the real solution is for people with low-value labor, to move to something of higher value, not and force employers to pay high value wages, for low value work. That's a fail. Doesn't work.

Why are you fighting so hard against employers paying higher wages? That’s a good thing especially when wages have a floor of $7.25 an hour. We are better than that

 

[Slade3200]

I simply said that anybody working full time should get paid enough to stay above the poverty line and off government assistance.

Someone working full time at minimum wage is above the poverty line.

What do you consider the poverty line?

What do you consider the poverty line?

I don't believe in a poverty line....but the Federal government says it's $12,880 for one person.

Does that sound reasonable to you? $12,880 as a poverty line for one persons annual earnings?

As I said, I don't believe in a poverty line....

Haha. Well there is one, so let me know when you make it back to reality and we can discuss

Yes, there is one. I don't see how it's very useful.
The government says it's $12,880.
If you think it's unreasonable, write your congressman.
Let me know what they say.

Oh I’m not personally too concerned with it. I pay my people much more than $15 an hour and hope most other business owners act responsibly and do the same. Those that don’t and take advantage of workers are the ones that will cause the government to step in and regulate it

And there lies the road to tyranny.

How so?

Easy. Gov't Mandates lead to Gov't CONTROL. Need I 'Splain more?

Haha. That’s a dumb point. That would be like me saying deregulation leads to anarchy.

Deregulation leads to FREEDOM.

Which leads to anarchy, right??

No of course not.

Correct. Just showing how ridiculous his description of events was

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That’s a good thing especially when wages have a floor of $7.25 an hour.

Not good for workers who aren't worth the higher wage.

 

[Andylusion]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

Since most schools are not profit making businesses it's irrelevant to the conversation. No one is there to make money for the school. Any more deflections?

.

Haha, these aren’t deflections these are examples of low wage jobs that aren’t directly related to making money for a business. You’ve been trying to make the point that an employee is only worth what they can bring in. I’m showing you thats BS. Get it now?

You don't think a farm hand picking veggies, or a janitor cleaning the office, is directly related to the business makring money? Really?

Of course they are...you need farrm hands to help pick or produce the product you take to market.

You need a clean office to bring in customers....

Of course they all play a part in the business. But the question was being asked about value. I asked who determines the value of an employee? The people I was conversing with implied that it was dependent on the revenue they bring in so I cited examples of jobs that don’t bring in revenue. They are an expense and part of the overall operations of the business

The market....what janitors at similar businesses in the same locality are being paid, for farmhands, what similar farm hands in the same locality, at the same type of farm are being paid.

Obviously if they are good at their job, and gain experience the employer will want to reward them to keep them...pay them more, treat them well....move them up to other positions etc.

But even then, there is still a limit. No matter how much 'experience' you gain, and no matter how 'good they are at their job'.... you still can't pay someone more money than they generate in value.

If I hire you to mow lawns for my lawn mowing company, and the customer is only willing to pay me $30 to have the lawn mowed... I can't pay you the employee $30.

Can't do it. I would end up losing money. Doesn't matter how experienced you are. Doesn't matter how good at mowing you are.

If customer doesn't pay me more, then I can't pay you more.

If I did pay you more, then I would be losing money, and why would I do that? If I can't pay you less, then it would be better for me to not hiring you, and not mow the customers lawn, than to mow the lawn, and pay you so much that I lost money.

Would you do that? Would you pay for a mower, to get paid $30, to pay me $30, and end up earning nothing? No you would not. No one would.

I don’t think the pro pile of supply and demand are in debate right now. The debate is about what the minimum bar for entry level pay should be. Everything else y’all are saying about business operations, wages, value and revenue all still applies

What I'm saying is, if you raise the bar for entry level pay..... that does not mean the customer is going to be willing to pay whatever that bar is.

If the customer refuses to pay me more than $30 to have a lawn mowed, then I can't pay you the employee $30.... even if you government decides that the minimum bar should be $30.

The result is, I lay you off, and you earn zero. If I can't employ you profitably, and profitably enough to make it worth my effort... then I won't do it. And you will not be employed.

That's why the real solution is for people with low-value labor, to move to something of higher value, not and force employers to pay high value wages, for low value work. That's a fail. Doesn't work.

Why are you fighting so hard against employers paying higher wages? That’s a good thing especially when wages have a floor of $7.25 an hour. We are better than that

Well.... I don't know exactly why you are asking that question, when I just spelled out why.

I was working at McDonalds when they raised the minimum wage. They laid off three people. I was there. I saw them do it.

So I know first hand, that increasing the minimum wage didn't result in employers paying higher wages. I resulted in employers laying off employees, who then earned zero.

Which goes back to exactly what I explained in the post before.

If the government mandated that oil changes had a minimum price of $100.... What would happen? Fewer people would buy oil changes. You'd have more people doing oil changes themselves, and some people just not changing the oil in their cars... or going to black market back yard mechanics for oil changes.

If the government mandated that milk was $20 a gallon.... what would happen? Fewer people would buy milk.

So as we have established.... raising the price, and inverse effect on people buying the service or product.

Well.... labor is the same. If you raise the price of labor, it has an inverse effect on people purchasing labor.

 

[Andylusion]

I simply said that anybody working full time should get paid enough to stay above the poverty line and off government assistance.

Someone working full time at minimum wage is above the poverty line.

What do you consider the poverty line?

What do you consider the poverty line?

I don't believe in a poverty line....but the Federal government says it's $12,880 for one person.

Does that sound reasonable to you? $12,880 as a poverty line for one persons annual earnings?

As I said, I don't believe in a poverty line....

Haha. Well there is one, so let me know when you make it back to reality and we can discuss

Yes, there is one. I don't see how it's very useful.
The government says it's $12,880.
If you think it's unreasonable, write your congressman.
Let me know what they say.

Oh I’m not personally too concerned with it. I pay my people much more than $15 an hour and hope most other business owners act responsibly and do the same. Those that don’t and take advantage of workers are the ones that will cause the government to step in and regulate it

And there lies the road to tyranny.

How so?

Easy. Gov't Mandates lead to Gov't CONTROL. Need I 'Splain more?

Haha. That’s a dumb point. That would be like me saying deregulation leads to anarchy.

Deregulation leads to FREEDOM.

Which leads to anarchy, right??

No of course not.

Correct. Just showing how ridiculous his description of events was

But mandates do result in more government control, by definition.
Deregulation does not lead to anarchy.

So, you didn't make a point.

 

[San Souci]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

Since most schools are not profit making businesses it's irrelevant to the conversation. No one is there to make money for the school. Any more deflections?

.

Haha, these aren’t deflections these are examples of low wage jobs that aren’t directly related to making money for a business. You’ve been trying to make the point that an employee is only worth what they can bring in. I’m showing you thats BS. Get it now?

You don't think a farm hand picking veggies, or a janitor cleaning the office, is directly related to the business makring money? Really?

Of course they are...you need farrm hands to help pick or produce the product you take to market.

You need a clean office to bring in customers....

Of course they all play a part in the business. But the question was being asked about value. I asked who determines the value of an employee? The people I was conversing with implied that it was dependent on the revenue they bring in so I cited examples of jobs that don’t bring in revenue. They are an expense and part of the overall operations of the business

The market....what janitors at similar businesses in the same locality are being paid, for farmhands, what similar farm hands in the same locality, at the same type of farm are being paid.

Obviously if they are good at their job, and gain experience the employer will want to reward them to keep them...pay them more, treat them well....move them up to other positions etc.

But even then, there is still a limit. No matter how much 'experience' you gain, and no matter how 'good they are at their job'.... you still can't pay someone more money than they generate in value.

If I hire you to mow lawns for my lawn mowing company, and the customer is only willing to pay me $30 to have the lawn mowed... I can't pay you the employee $30.

Can't do it. I would end up losing money. Doesn't matter how experienced you are. Doesn't matter how good at mowing you are.

If customer doesn't pay me more, then I can't pay you more.

If I did pay you more, then I would be losing money, and why would I do that? If I can't pay you less, then it would be better for me to not hiring you, and not mow the customers lawn, than to mow the lawn, and pay you so much that I lost money.

Would you do that? Would you pay for a mower, to get paid $30, to pay me $30, and end up earning nothing? No you would not. No one would.

I don’t think the pro pile of supply and demand are in debate right now. The debate is about what the minimum bar for entry level pay should be. Everything else y’all are saying about business operations, wages, value and revenue all still applies

What I'm saying is, if you raise the bar for entry level pay..... that does not mean the customer is going to be willing to pay whatever that bar is.

If the customer refuses to pay me more than $30 to have a lawn mowed, then I can't pay you the employee $30.... even if you government decides that the minimum bar should be $30.

The result is, I lay you off, and you earn zero. If I can't employ you profitably, and profitably enough to make it worth my effort... then I won't do it. And you will not be employed.

That's why the real solution is for people with low-value labor, to move to something of higher value, not and force employers to pay high value wages, for low value work. That's a fail. Doesn't work.

Why are you fighting so hard against employers paying higher wages? That’s a good thing especially when wages have a floor of $7.25 an hour. We are better than that

Still should be up to the employer. Nobody has to TAKE the job offered.

 

[Slade3200]

That’s a good thing especially when wages have a floor of $7.25 an hour.

Not good for workers who aren't worth the higher wage.

Make anybody do anything for you for 8 hours a day 5 days a week and they are worth more than $7.25. You don’t seem to place much value on other peoples time. Too bad

 

[Slade3200]

llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.

The fact is that these immigrants do the work that American workers are too lazy to do, and $15 isn't going to change that. My view is that $15 is too high a wage for the kind of work that they do because that basic wage is a learning wage only.

What kind of work are you talking about? And what are they learning? Can you give a couple examples?

Farmhands, landscaping, clean-up, etc.

You think picking veggies in a field all day is a learning task? Or digging trenches or cleaning bathroom floors?! What exactly are they learning? And if somebody spends 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year doing those jobs do you really think they deserve to make less than $15,000 a year ?! Really think about that

Yes, I think everybody deserves more. It isn't only $15000. It also benefits that need to be added to the mix and then it becomes a matter of affordability.

Ok $15k and benefits. You good with that for full time work? The jobs you listed aren’t learning jobs btw, they are straight up hard labor

Unskilled labor, and yes it can be hard. A job like that pays less than skilled labor jobs. If you are a business owner, you will look at things a little differently when it is your money and you own the overhead. Trust me. It is very difficult for someone who has never had to meet payroll to understand the nature of business.

I’ve ran my own businesses did the past 15 years. I understand the nature of business. I could never stomach utilizing 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year of somebody’s time and only paying them $15k. I don’t care what job they were doing

If an employee wasn't making you money, what would you do?

.

Is it the employees job to make me money?

Unless it’s Socialism then yes.

How much money does a janitor make for a school?

A lot less than a teacher who'd have to do the cleaning if he wasn't there. It's called value added. I thought you own a business, you don't seem to know much about running one.

.

I asked a simple question... how much money does a janitor make for a school?

You didn't say what kind of school.

.

You choose

Since most schools are not profit making businesses it's irrelevant to the conversation. No one is there to make money for the school. Any more deflections?

.

Haha, these aren’t deflections these are examples of low wage jobs that aren’t directly related to making money for a business. You’ve been trying to make the point that an employee is only worth what they can bring in. I’m showing you thats BS. Get it now?

You don't think a farm hand picking veggies, or a janitor cleaning the office, is directly related to the business makring money? Really?

Of course they are...you need farrm hands to help pick or produce the product you take to market.

You need a clean office to bring in customers....

Of course they all play a part in the business. But the question was being asked about value. I asked who determines the value of an employee? The people I was conversing with implied that it was dependent on the revenue they bring in so I cited examples of jobs that don’t bring in revenue. They are an expense and part of the overall operations of the business

The market....what janitors at similar businesses in the same locality are being paid, for farmhands, what similar farm hands in the same locality, at the same type of farm are being paid.

Obviously if they are good at their job, and gain experience the employer will want to reward them to keep them...pay them more, treat them well....move them up to other positions etc.

But even then, there is still a limit. No matter how much 'experience' you gain, and no matter how 'good they are at their job'.... you still can't pay someone more money than they generate in value.

If I hire you to mow lawns for my lawn mowing company, and the customer is only willing to pay me $30 to have the lawn mowed... I can't pay you the employee $30.

Can't do it. I would end up losing money. Doesn't matter how experienced you are. Doesn't matter how good at mowing you are.

If customer doesn't pay me more, then I can't pay you more.

If I did pay you more, then I would be losing money, and why would I do that? If I can't pay you less, then it would be better for me to not hiring you, and not mow the customers lawn, than to mow the lawn, and pay you so much that I lost money.

Would you do that? Would you pay for a mower, to get paid $30, to pay me $30, and end up earning nothing? No you would not. No one would.

I don’t think the pro pile of supply and demand are in debate right now. The debate is about what the minimum bar for entry level pay should be. Everything else y’all are saying about business operations, wages, value and revenue all still applies

What I'm saying is, if you raise the bar for entry level pay..... that does not mean the customer is going to be willing to pay whatever that bar is.

If the customer refuses to pay me more than $30 to have a lawn mowed, then I can't pay you the employee $30.... even if you government decides that the minimum bar should be $30.

The result is, I lay you off, and you earn zero. If I can't employ you profitably, and profitably enough to make it worth my effort... then I won't do it. And you will not be employed.

That's why the real solution is for people with low-value labor, to move to something of higher value, not and force employers to pay high value wages, for low value work. That's a fail. Doesn't work.

Why are you fighting so hard against employers paying higher wages? That’s a good thing especially when wages have a floor of $7.25 an hour. We are better than that

Well.... I don't know exactly why you are asking that question, when I just spelled out why.

I was working at McDonalds when they raised the minimum wage. They laid off three people. I was there. I saw them do it.

So I know first hand, that increasing the minimum wage didn't result in employers paying higher wages. I resulted in employers laying off employees, who then earned zero.

Which goes back to exactly what I explained in the post before.

If the government mandated that oil changes had a minimum price of $100.... What would happen? Fewer people would buy oil changes. You'd have more people doing oil changes themselves, and some people just not changing the oil in their cars... or going to black market back yard mechanics for oil changes.

If the government mandated that milk was $20 a gallon.... what would happen? Fewer people would buy milk.

So as we have established.... raising the price, and inverse effect on people buying the service or product.

Well.... labor is the same. If you raise the price of labor, it has an inverse effect on people purchasing labor.

How much did they raise the minimum wage when you were at McDs ? How in the world would that result in three employees. I’d love to see the math on that one