Democrat Rep on CNN: We don't want Small Businesses

Toddsterpatriot

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What is your point?
My point is that claiming every business can/should pay every employee at least $15/hour doesn't help people who aren't very productive, regardless of the fact that the low productivity employee may have a family to support.
It helps them about twice as much as a $7.25 an hour job helps them
The $15/hour job that they don't get helps them less than the $7.25/job that they do get.
Agreed. Your grasp of logic is masterful... Also did you know that 100% of nothing is less that 1% of something. Feel free to use that one, on the house.
You're right, kicking low-skilled workers out of their jobs is very helpful.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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What is your point?
My point is that claiming every business can/should pay every employee at least $15/hour doesn't help people who aren't very productive, regardless of the fact that the low productivity employee may have a family to support.
If you're working a minimum wage job with a family to support, I think it's safe to say you're lacking in productivity.
Yeah, I guess we could just fire the unproductive low wager working and hire somebody else and let the unproductive on try and support their family through welfare... How much do the conservatives want to fund welfare for this type of person?
There's a simpler route, actually. UBI would be cheaper and more efficient than our current welfare state if it replaced all of that. It would also make the minimum wage less of a concern. The market could determine the minimum wage without government intervention in this scenario.
UBI would be cheaper

Show your math.
 

OldBlue

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Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) told CNN in an interview on Sunday that he and presumably other Democrats “don’t want low-wage” small businesses as he advocated for increasing the minimum wage. “We don’t want low-wage businesses,” he said when asked if mom and pop shops should be forced to pay employees more. “I think most successful small businesses can pay a fair wage.”


No beating around the bush there. The Rich and big-time Corporations only. F these local businesses who don't succeed by economies of scale. No open market of ideas. If you can't pay what I think you should, you should be erased.

The latest daily example of Leftist totalitarianism.
What is wrong with not wanting businesses that pay low wages? The state has one of the highest cost factors to exist there. The state is number one in the nation with GDP.
What is wrong with not wanting businesses that pay low wages?

Many people lack the skills and experience to get any but a low wage job.
Are they to be trapped on welfare their entire life?

The state is number one in the nation with GDP.

Number one in population.
It is not always about skills but location, lower wages are ok in places where the cost of living is lower yet California is not that place.
True enough.

I live in SoCal and two people making minimum wage can barely make it on what they take home. And if they have kids, forget it. They live hand to mouth.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Yes, successful employers always pay their workers less than the value they add, otherwise they'd go bankrupt.
I like this point you made and I agree. Employers pay workers less than the value they add. Wouldn't it also make sense then that some workers get paid more than the value they add? It is after all a business expense. Some elements add value and others take away. That how businesses operate.
Wouldn't it also make sense then that some workers get paid more than the value they add?

Why would an employer do that?
 

Moonglow

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Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) told CNN in an interview on Sunday that he and presumably other Democrats “don’t want low-wage” small businesses as he advocated for increasing the minimum wage. “We don’t want low-wage businesses,” he said when asked if mom and pop shops should be forced to pay employees more. “I think most successful small businesses can pay a fair wage.”


No beating around the bush there. The Rich and big-time Corporations only. F these local businesses who don't succeed by economies of scale. No open market of ideas. If you can't pay what I think you should, you should be erased.

The latest daily example of Leftist totalitarianism.
What is wrong with not wanting businesses that pay low wages? The state has one of the highest cost factors to exist there. The state is number one in the nation with GDP.
What is wrong with not wanting businesses that pay low wages?

Many people lack the skills and experience to get any but a low wage job.
Are they to be trapped on welfare their entire life?

The state is number one in the nation with GDP.

Number one in population.
It is not always about skills but location, lower wages are ok in places where the cost of living is lower yet California is not that place.
True enough.

I live in SoCal and two people making minimum wage can barely make it on what they take home. And if they have kids, forget it. They live hand to mouth.
I managed to do that in Oklahoma and Texas
 

Utilitarian

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There's a simpler route, actually. UBI would be cheaper and more efficient than our current welfare state if it replaced all of that. It would also make the minimum wage less of a concern. The market could determine the minimum wage without government intervention in this scenario.
UBI would be cheaper

Show your math.
This was the idea I was going with: This free cash plan would pay you $1,320 per month and wouldn't cost the government a cent

It benefits most citizens, although it would be detrimental to the very bottom and the very top of incomes. Still, it would benefit the vast majority of citizens.
 

Slade3200

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Slade3200

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Yes, successful employers always pay their workers less than the value they add, otherwise they'd go bankrupt.
I like this point you made and I agree. Employers pay workers less than the value they add. Wouldn't it also make sense then that some workers get paid more than the value they add? It is after all a business expense. Some elements add value and others take away. That how businesses operate.
Wouldn't it also make sense then that some workers get paid more than the value they add?

Why would an employer do that?
Because expenses are needed to operate a business. Some expenses add value and others take away value. Do you have any experience with business?
 

Toddsterpatriot

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There's a simpler route, actually. UBI would be cheaper and more efficient than our current welfare state if it replaced all of that. It would also make the minimum wage less of a concern. The market could determine the minimum wage without government intervention in this scenario.
UBI would be cheaper

Show your math.
This was the idea I was going with: This free cash plan would pay you $1,320 per month and wouldn't cost the government a cent

It benefits most citizens, although it would be detrimental to the very bottom and the very top of incomes. Still, it would benefit the vast majority of citizens.
Wouldn't cost the government a cent.......but it would cost the people.....

1614229206121.png


Or even more than he claimed.......

1614229334999.png
 

Utilitarian

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There's a simpler route, actually. UBI would be cheaper and more efficient than our current welfare state if it replaced all of that. It would also make the minimum wage less of a concern. The market could determine the minimum wage without government intervention in this scenario.
UBI would be cheaper

Show your math.
This was the idea I was going with: This free cash plan would pay you $1,320 per month and wouldn't cost the government a cent

It benefits most citizens, although it would be detrimental to the very bottom and the very top of incomes. Still, it would benefit the vast majority of citizens.
Wouldn't cost the government a cent.......but it would cost the people.....

View attachment 461420

Or even more than he claimed.......

View attachment 461421
I was referring to the AEI plan that is mentioned later in the article.
 

OKTexas

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Perhaps you should get off your ass, put up your money and start a business.
I have stupid. And I understand how difficult that is. Few can actually do it an succeed.

And you commies want to make it harder to make it, not easier. Does that make sense to you, considering small business provides the vast majority of jobs?

.
 

OKTexas

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OKTexas

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In which state does making $15,000 a year keep a person above the poverty line?
Who said it needs to do that?
Less than 2% of workers make minimum wage and about half of them are 25 and under.
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?! How about so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat despite the fact they are fully employed. That may be a point you agree with

Are you so stupid as to think the commies won't alter the definition of the poverty line as the minimum wage goes up? You can bet your ass they'll move in tandem.

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Of course they will, it’s subjective. So what?! What do you think the poverty line is?

Do you think a school kid that works for the minimum wage making spending money and being supported by their parents for all the necessities is living below the poverty line? This one size fits all bullshit is exactly that, BS.
I do think of them. What about them?

Your nonresponse is duly noted.

.
What do you mean my nonresponse. I asked a question in response. What about the kids? If businesses wants to hire and train kids and that time isn't worth what they pay for min wage then they can do an internship. I don't see the point that you are trying to get to

Oh ok, I guess you think only your questions deserve an answer. Carry on.

.
I've answered all of your questions. You asked if I think about the kids. I said I do think of them. You having reading problems?

You might want to read that question again, it was more involved, I guess it's you with the reading problem.

.
 

OKTexas

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that depends on whether you’re a business owner or an employee. Many employees produce much much more in value than they get paid and those profits go to the business owner. That’s how business works.
If you're an employee and you only produce $10/hour in value, how much should you be paid?
Generally speaking if an employee is producing $10 an hour of value then if the business is going to survive it would need to pay that employee $3-$5 an hour. Of course there are many other factors at play.

If this is the circumstance then the business owner needs to restructure and develop a better business model or train the employee to produce more value.
Generally speaking if an employee is producing $10 an hour of value then if the business is going to survive it would need to pay that employee $3-$5 an hour.

And if a $15/ hour mandate was enacted?

If this is the circumstance then the business owner needs to restructure and develop a better business model or train the employee to produce more value.

Some people just aren't very productive, no matter what the business model or amount of training (like 30 year olds still making minimum wage).
Min wage workers aren’t there to produce business they are there to exacute
In which state does making $15,000 a year keep a person above the poverty line?
Who said it needs to do that?
Less than 2% of workers make minimum wage and about half of them are 25 and under.
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?! How about so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat despite the fact they are fully employed. That may be a point you agree with
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?!

Exactly.

If you produce $10/hour in value, what should your wages be?

so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat

Would the taxpayer funded welfare be higher or lower without the job?
It’s up to the business owner to run their business to produce adequate value to pay their employees, just as it’s up to them to meet regulations and codes for the states and industries they do business in. A persons time is worth more than poverty. If you work for yourself and you produce $10 an hour of value then that’s what you will get and you likely won’t make it. But if you are going to employee people then you have a responsibility to those employees

Yep, your responsibility is to pay them as agreed, nothing more.

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exactly, which is why there is movement to get the minimum agreement higher and better for workers

Yet all it will create is fewer workers, tell the ones put out of a job how much better it is for them. You commies just don't think things through.

.
What do you mean they don't think it through. Of course they do. Its been analyzed and studied.
It would cost 1.4 million jobs in exchange for raising 900,000 out of poverty.



When has the CBO ever been right about anything? They don't score things on facts, they only use the criteria they're told to use.

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The CBO reports totally backs up your argument but if you want to dismiss it then thats fine with me

Sure it does, on the low side.

.
 

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I support making them legal so they go on the books and employers have to pay them minimum wage...a REAL minimum wage.

How the fuck is legalizing millions of foreign workers going to help American workers?

You're not very bright.
Illegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.

It is YOU who are "not very bright"
Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.
OK. Show your work.
 
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Bobob

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Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) told CNN in an interview on Sunday that he and presumably other Democrats “don’t want low-wage” small businesses as he advocated for increasing the minimum wage. “We don’t want low-wage businesses,” he said when asked if mom and pop shops should be forced to pay employees more. “I think most successful small businesses can pay a fair wage.”


No beating around the bush there. The Rich and big-time Corporations only. F these local businesses who don't succeed by economies of scale. No open market of ideas. If you can't pay what I think you should, you should be erased.

The latest daily example of Leftist totalitarianism.
From your article...

“I love small businesses. I’m all for it. But I don’t want small businesses that are underpaying employees. It’s fair for people to be making what they’re producing and I think $15 is very reasonable in this country.”
$15 per hour is reasonable for workers who have skills. A minimum wage is a learning wage and not an earning wage and includes benefits. Those skilled workers will demand a raise if they are too close in earnings to the unskilled worker who is learning a trade, and it may cause unrest and loss of that skilled worker. Overheads will rise to offset the increases, layoffs of low-wage earners will occur, and businesses will slump. Been there and done that as a small business owner for 30 years.
The result of all this is that the small business owner will likely lay off unskilled workers as a first step.
I agree if the policy institutes an immediate implementation of $7 an hour to $15 an hour. But if it progressively goes up say a dollar a year over 8 years then I can see an easier transition being made and less job losses. What do you think about that?
I don't know. It just seems high to me, but better than a bump to $15. Also, each part of our country has different living costs.
 
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Toddsterpatriot

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llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.
Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.
 

Lesh

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llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.
Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.
That's the extent of your "math"?

Made up numbers? That's not math. That's dogma

Lame even by your standards
 

Toddsterpatriot

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llegal aliens work for less than minimum wage. Make them legal, force employers to pay them MW and RAISE the MW and the downward pressure on wages go away.
Importing millions of low-skilled illegal aliens, making them legal and hiking the minimum wage is not going to increase the demand for low-skilled native born US citizen workers.

Who determines the value an employee adds?

Math.

OK. Show your work

If you take $10 of input and turn it into an $18 product in 1 hour, you created $8 of value/hour.
That's the extent of your "math"?

Made up numbers? That's not math. That's dogma

Lame even by your standards
That's the extent of your "math"?

Was my example too complicated for you?

Maybe you can post the formula for determining value added?

Go ahead, dazzle me with your business acumen.
 
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