Democrat Rep on CNN: We don't want Small Businesses

Toddsterpatriot

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Everyone who doesn't have a high enough salary.....dies?

I don't believe you.
Try living on $3/ day and talk to me about "surviving". Oh you want to pay more? Why? If you can manipulate the economy such that you can pay that right...why would you not? You don't care about your workers ability to survive. You just get new ones...right?
The very people fighting the $15/ hr MW would NEVER allow that deportation because that is a big part of how they depress wages.

I know, that's why we should deport them, to stick it to the man!!
Nice fantasy. Of course that'd never happen. They WANT that cheap workforce both because they're cheap and because they depress wages across the board. It's as STRATEGY TO DEPRESS WAGES.

They have been bringing in that cheap immigrant labor for almost 200 years

And how do you combat that? make them legal. Shut off the tap. Raise the minimum wage
Try living on $3/ day and talk to me about "surviving".

Why the fuck would I do that?

You don't care about your workers ability to survive.

If only we had government programs that gave people money so they wouldn't starve.

Nice fantasy. Of course that'd never happen.

If enough people like you supported it, it could happen.
So why don't you support it?
 

Lesh

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If only we had government programs that gave people money so they wouldn't starve.
So you want government to provide a basic income so that employers don't have to pay their workers.

Ohhh...
If enough people like you supported it, it could happen.
So why don't you support it?
Support deporting 11 million people? Never happen. And they'll never do t because they WANT this situation to continue

I support making them legal so they go on the books and employers have to pay them minimum wage...a REAL minimum wage.

And STRICT enforcement of employers who hire illegals.
 

Slade3200

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What is your point?
My point is that claiming every business can/should pay every employee at least $15/hour doesn't help people who aren't very productive, regardless of the fact that the low productivity employee may have a family to support.
It helps them about twice as much as a $7.25 an hour job helps them
The $15/hour job that they don't get helps them less than the $7.25/job that they do get.
Agreed. Your grasp of logic is masterful... Also did you know that 100% of nothing is less that 1% of something. Feel free to use that one, on the house.
 

Slade3200

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Rep. Ro Khanna (D-CA) told CNN in an interview on Sunday that he and presumably other Democrats “don’t want low-wage” small businesses as he advocated for increasing the minimum wage. “We don’t want low-wage businesses,” he said when asked if mom and pop shops should be forced to pay employees more. “I think most successful small businesses can pay a fair wage.”


No beating around the bush there. The Rich and big-time Corporations only. F these local businesses who don't succeed by economies of scale. No open market of ideas. If you can't pay what I think you should, you should be erased.

The latest daily example of Leftist totalitarianism.
From your article...

“I love small businesses. I’m all for it. But I don’t want small businesses that are underpaying employees. It’s fair for people to be making what they’re producing and I think $15 is very reasonable in this country.”
$15 per hour is reasonable for workers who have skills. A minimum wage is a learning wage and not an earning wage and includes benefits. Those skilled workers will demand a raise if they are too close in earnings to the unskilled worker who is learning a trade, and it may cause unrest and loss of that skilled worker. Overheads will rise to offset the increases, layoffs of low-wage earners will occur, and businesses will slump. Been there and done that as a small business owner for 30 years.
The result of all this is that the small business owner will likely lay off unskilled workers as a first step.
I agree if the policy institutes an immediate implementation of $7 an hour to $15 an hour. But if it progressively goes up say a dollar a year over 8 years then I can see an easier transition being made and less job losses. What do you think about that?
 

Slade3200

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What is your point?
My point is that claiming every business can/should pay every employee at least $15/hour doesn't help people who aren't very productive, regardless of the fact that the low productivity employee may have a family to support.
If you're working a minimum wage job with a family to support, I think it's safe to say you're lacking in productivity.
Yeah, I guess we could just fire the unproductive low wager working and hire somebody else and let the unproductive on try and support their family through welfare... How much do the conservatives want to fund welfare for this type of person?
 

Slade3200

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that depends on whether you’re a business owner or an employee. Many employees produce much much more in value than they get paid and those profits go to the business owner. That’s how business works.
If you're an employee and you only produce $10/hour in value, how much should you be paid?
Generally speaking if an employee is producing $10 an hour of value then if the business is going to survive it would need to pay that employee $3-$5 an hour. Of course there are many other factors at play.

If this is the circumstance then the business owner needs to restructure and develop a better business model or train the employee to produce more value.
Generally speaking if an employee is producing $10 an hour of value then if the business is going to survive it would need to pay that employee $3-$5 an hour.

And if a $15/ hour mandate was enacted?

If this is the circumstance then the business owner needs to restructure and develop a better business model or train the employee to produce more value.

Some people just aren't very productive, no matter what the business model or amount of training (like 30 year olds still making minimum wage).
Min wage workers aren’t there to produce business they are there to exacute
In which state does making $15,000 a year keep a person above the poverty line?
Who said it needs to do that?
Less than 2% of workers make minimum wage and about half of them are 25 and under.
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?! How about so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat despite the fact they are fully employed. That may be a point you agree with
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?!

Exactly.

If you produce $10/hour in value, what should your wages be?

so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat

Would the taxpayer funded welfare be higher or lower without the job?
It’s up to the business owner to run their business to produce adequate value to pay their employees, just as it’s up to them to meet regulations and codes for the states and industries they do business in. A persons time is worth more than poverty. If you work for yourself and you produce $10 an hour of value then that’s what you will get and you likely won’t make it. But if you are going to employee people then you have a responsibility to those employees

Yep, your responsibility is to pay them as agreed, nothing more.

.
exactly, which is why there is movement to get the minimum agreement higher and better for workers

Yet all it will create is fewer workers, tell the ones put out of a job how much better it is for them. You commies just don't think things through.

.
Is it just me, or is it painfully obvious that no one on the left has ever had to acquire anything through their own merit and hard work?
It's definitely just you.
 

Slade3200

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In which state does making $15,000 a year keep a person above the poverty line?
Who said it needs to do that?
Less than 2% of workers make minimum wage and about half of them are 25 and under.
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?! How about so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat despite the fact they are fully employed. That may be a point you agree with

Are you so stupid as to think the commies won't alter the definition of the poverty line as the minimum wage goes up? You can bet your ass they'll move in tandem.

.
Of course they will, it’s subjective. So what?! What do you think the poverty line is?

Do you think a school kid that works for the minimum wage making spending money and being supported by their parents for all the necessities is living below the poverty line? This one size fits all bullshit is exactly that, BS.
I do think of them. What about them?

Your nonresponse is duly noted.

.
What do you mean my nonresponse. I asked a question in response. What about the kids? If businesses wants to hire and train kids and that time isn't worth what they pay for min wage then they can do an internship. I don't see the point that you are trying to get to

Oh ok, I guess you think only your questions deserve an answer. Carry on.

.
I've answered all of your questions. You asked if I think about the kids. I said I do think of them. You having reading problems?
 

Slade3200

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that depends on whether you’re a business owner or an employee. Many employees produce much much more in value than they get paid and those profits go to the business owner. That’s how business works.
If you're an employee and you only produce $10/hour in value, how much should you be paid?
Generally speaking if an employee is producing $10 an hour of value then if the business is going to survive it would need to pay that employee $3-$5 an hour. Of course there are many other factors at play.

If this is the circumstance then the business owner needs to restructure and develop a better business model or train the employee to produce more value.
Generally speaking if an employee is producing $10 an hour of value then if the business is going to survive it would need to pay that employee $3-$5 an hour.

And if a $15/ hour mandate was enacted?

If this is the circumstance then the business owner needs to restructure and develop a better business model or train the employee to produce more value.

Some people just aren't very productive, no matter what the business model or amount of training (like 30 year olds still making minimum wage).
Min wage workers aren’t there to produce business they are there to exacute
In which state does making $15,000 a year keep a person above the poverty line?
Who said it needs to do that?
Less than 2% of workers make minimum wage and about half of them are 25 and under.
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?! How about so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat despite the fact they are fully employed. That may be a point you agree with
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?!

Exactly.

If you produce $10/hour in value, what should your wages be?

so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat

Would the taxpayer funded welfare be higher or lower without the job?
It’s up to the business owner to run their business to produce adequate value to pay their employees, just as it’s up to them to meet regulations and codes for the states and industries they do business in. A persons time is worth more than poverty. If you work for yourself and you produce $10 an hour of value then that’s what you will get and you likely won’t make it. But if you are going to employee people then you have a responsibility to those employees

Yep, your responsibility is to pay them as agreed, nothing more.

.
exactly, which is why there is movement to get the minimum agreement higher and better for workers

Yet all it will create is fewer workers, tell the ones put out of a job how much better it is for them. You commies just don't think things through.

.
What do you mean they don't think it through. Of course they do. Its been analyzed and studied.
It would cost 1.4 million jobs in exchange for raising 900,000 out of poverty.



When has the CBO ever been right about anything? They don't score things on facts, they only use the criteria they're told to use.

.
The CBO reports totally backs up your argument but if you want to dismiss it then thats fine with me
 

Slade3200

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In which state does making $15,000 a year keep a person above the poverty line?
Who said it needs to do that?
Less than 2% of workers make minimum wage and about half of them are 25 and under.
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?! How about so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat despite the fact they are fully employed. That may be a point you agree with
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?!

Exactly.

If you produce $10/hour in value, what should your wages be?

so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat

Would the taxpayer funded welfare be higher or lower without the job?
It’s up to the business owner to run their business to produce adequate value to pay their employees, just as it’s up to them to meet regulations and codes for the states and industries they do business in. A persons time is worth more than poverty. If you work for yourself and you produce $10 an hour of value then that’s what you will get and you likely won’t make it. But if you are going to employee people then you have a responsibility to those employees
It’s up to the business owner to run their business to produce adequate value to pay their employees,

Some employees just aren't very productive.

A persons time is worth more than poverty.

Usually, not always.
Can you give a real example where a persons time is not worth more than a poverty lifestyle?
You think you've posted a real gotcha question here don't you?
no, just regular questions
 

Utilitarian

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What is your point?
My point is that claiming every business can/should pay every employee at least $15/hour doesn't help people who aren't very productive, regardless of the fact that the low productivity employee may have a family to support.
If you're working a minimum wage job with a family to support, I think it's safe to say you're lacking in productivity.
Yeah, I guess we could just fire the unproductive low wager working and hire somebody else and let the unproductive on try and support their family through welfare... How much do the conservatives want to fund welfare for this type of person?
There's a simpler route, actually. UBI would be cheaper and more efficient than our current welfare state if it replaced all of that. It would also make the minimum wage less of a concern. The market could determine the minimum wage without government intervention in this scenario.
 

Slade3200

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Yes, successful employers always pay their workers less than the value they add, otherwise they'd go bankrupt.
I like this point you made and I agree. Employers pay workers less than the value they add. Wouldn't it also make sense then that some workers get paid more than the value they add? It is after all a business expense. Some elements add value and others take away. That how businesses operate.
 

Slade3200

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What is your point?
My point is that claiming every business can/should pay every employee at least $15/hour doesn't help people who aren't very productive, regardless of the fact that the low productivity employee may have a family to support.
It helps them about twice as much as a $7.25 an hour job helps them
Not if they are unemployed, moron.
Hey look who's back!!!! Its Mr. Business :)
 

Slade3200

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that depends on whether you’re a business owner or an employee. Many employees produce much much more in value than they get paid and those profits go to the business owner. That’s how business works.
If you're an employee and you only produce $10/hour in value, how much should you be paid?
Generally speaking if an employee is producing $10 an hour of value then if the business is going to survive it would need to pay that employee $3-$5 an hour. Of course there are many other factors at play.

If this is the circumstance then the business owner needs to restructure and develop a better business model or train the employee to produce more value.
Generally speaking if an employee is producing $10 an hour of value then if the business is going to survive it would need to pay that employee $3-$5 an hour.

And if a $15/ hour mandate was enacted?

If this is the circumstance then the business owner needs to restructure and develop a better business model or train the employee to produce more value.

Some people just aren't very productive, no matter what the business model or amount of training (like 30 year olds still making minimum wage).
Min wage workers aren’t there to produce business they are there to exacute
In which state does making $15,000 a year keep a person above the poverty line?
Who said it needs to do that?
Less than 2% of workers make minimum wage and about half of them are 25 and under.
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?! How about so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat despite the fact they are fully employed. That may be a point you agree with
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?!

Exactly.

If you produce $10/hour in value, what should your wages be?

so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat

Would the taxpayer funded welfare be higher or lower without the job?
It’s up to the business owner to run their business to produce adequate value to pay their employees, just as it’s up to them to meet regulations and codes for the states and industries they do business in. A persons time is worth more than poverty. If you work for yourself and you produce $10 an hour of value then that’s what you will get and you likely won’t make it. But if you are going to employee people then you have a responsibility to those employees

Yep, your responsibility is to pay them as agreed, nothing more.

.
exactly, which is why there is movement to get the minimum agreement higher and better for workers

Yet all it will create is fewer workers, tell the ones put out of a job how much better it is for them. You commies just don't think things through.

.
What do you mean they don't think it through. Of course they do. Its been analyzed and studied.
It would cost 1.4 million jobs in exchange for raising 900,000 out of poverty.


So you believe that since you're fine with that everyone else should be true?

I marvel at how the leftwing mind works.
No, I don't believe that everybody should feel the same way I do. I actually don't think the $15 min wage should be in this bill, but who cares what I think and feel? Nobody. Can we get back to the debate now? I'm not done schooling you.
 

Slade3200

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In which state does making $15,000 a year keep a person above the poverty line?
Who said it needs to do that?
Less than 2% of workers make minimum wage and about half of them are 25 and under.
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?! How about so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat despite the fact they are fully employed. That may be a point you agree with

Are you so stupid as to think the commies won't alter the definition of the poverty line as the minimum wage goes up? You can bet your ass they'll move in tandem.

.
Of course they will, it’s subjective. So what?! What do you think the poverty line is?

Do you think a school kid that works for the minimum wage making spending money and being supported by their parents for all the necessities is living below the poverty line? This one size fits all bullshit is exactly that, BS.
I do think of them. What about them?

Your nonresponse is duly noted.

.
What do you mean my nonresponse. I asked a question in response. What about the kids? If businesses wants to hire and train kids and that time isn't worth what they pay for min wage then they can do an internship. I don't see the point that you are trying to get to
Why would any kid do an "internship" stocking shelves at a grocery store for no pay? How is getting no pay better than getting minimum wage?
Why couldn't they get paid?
 

Slade3200

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that depends on whether you’re a business owner or an employee. Many employees produce much much more in value than they get paid and those profits go to the business owner. That’s how business works.
If you're an employee and you only produce $10/hour in value, how much should you be paid?
Generally speaking if an employee is producing $10 an hour of value then if the business is going to survive it would need to pay that employee $3-$5 an hour. Of course there are many other factors at play.

If this is the circumstance then the business owner needs to restructure and develop a better business model or train the employee to produce more value.
Generally speaking if an employee is producing $10 an hour of value then if the business is going to survive it would need to pay that employee $3-$5 an hour.

And if a $15/ hour mandate was enacted?

If this is the circumstance then the business owner needs to restructure and develop a better business model or train the employee to produce more value.

Some people just aren't very productive, no matter what the business model or amount of training (like 30 year olds still making minimum wage).
Min wage workers aren’t there to produce business they are there to exacute
In which state does making $15,000 a year keep a person above the poverty line?
Who said it needs to do that?
Less than 2% of workers make minimum wage and about half of them are 25 and under.
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?! How about so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat despite the fact they are fully employed. That may be a point you agree with
Why should businesses pay full time employees wages that keeps them above the poverty line?!

Exactly.

If you produce $10/hour in value, what should your wages be?

so the tax payers don’t need to pay full time workers welfare to keep them afloat

Would the taxpayer funded welfare be higher or lower without the job?
It’s up to the business owner to run their business to produce adequate value to pay their employees, just as it’s up to them to meet regulations and codes for the states and industries they do business in. A persons time is worth more than poverty. If you work for yourself and you produce $10 an hour of value then that’s what you will get and you likely won’t make it. But if you are going to employee people then you have a responsibility to those employees

Yep, your responsibility is to pay them as agreed, nothing more.

.
exactly, which is why there is movement to get the minimum agreement higher and better for workers

Yet all it will create is fewer workers, tell the ones put out of a job how much better it is for them. You commies just don't think things through.

.
What do you mean they don't think it through. Of course they do. Its been analyzed and studied.
It would cost 1.4 million jobs in exchange for raising 900,000 out of poverty.


Actually if you read closely it says it COULD cost 1.4 million jobs...or it could cost ZERO jobs.

History favors the latter
No it doesn't, and the laws of economics mean the former is the rule.
Did you just say the laws of economics?! You are cracking me up today!
 

Slade3200

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What is your point?
My point is that claiming every business can/should pay every employee at least $15/hour doesn't help people who aren't very productive, regardless of the fact that the low productivity employee may have a family to support.
If you're working a minimum wage job with a family to support, I think it's safe to say you're lacking in productivity.
Yeah, I guess we could just fire the unproductive low wager working and hire somebody else and let the unproductive on try and support their family through welfare... How much do the conservatives want to fund welfare for this type of person?
There's a simpler route, actually. UBI would be cheaper and more efficient than our current welfare state if it replaced all of that. It would also make the minimum wage less of a concern. The market could determine the minimum wage without government intervention in this scenario.
UBI is an interesting idea, I'd like to hear more of the debate
 

Utilitarian

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There's a simpler route, actually. UBI would be cheaper and more efficient than our current welfare state if it replaced all of that. It would also make the minimum wage less of a concern. The market could determine the minimum wage without government intervention in this scenario.
UBI is an interesting idea, I'd like to hear more of the debate
I just see it as a situation where, if we're going to be paying people with public money one way or another, we might as well make it efficient. It would also result in eliminating a lot of federal jobs, which saves a lot of money for taxpayers. Fed employees tend to be lazy and have bloated benefits.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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If only we had government programs that gave people money so they wouldn't starve.
So you want government to provide a basic income so that employers don't have to pay their workers.

Ohhh...
If enough people like you supported it, it could happen.
So why don't you support it?
Support deporting 11 million people? Never happen. And they'll never do t because they WANT this situation to continue

I support making them legal so they go on the books and employers have to pay them minimum wage...a REAL minimum wage.

And STRICT enforcement of employers who hire illegals.
So you want government to provide a basic income so that employers don't have to pay their workers.

You going to pretend that people who don't have a high enough income....starve? DURR.

Support deporting 11 million people?

To start. To help the low-skilled American workers you've been whining about.

I support making them legal so they go on the books and employers have to pay them minimum wage...a REAL minimum wage.

How the fuck is legalizing millions of foreign workers going to help American workers?

You're not very bright.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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