Demise of Putin's Russia...

[MisterBeale]

1984 was a satire on the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany, not the United States.

I already posted that link on cognitive dissonance for the person that started the thread OP.

You are now exhibiting it. I don't think we need anymore discussion, at the point where you think that the genetics, or somehow, the people of one nation, are inherently, "better," than another, by their location on the planet?

Yes, the dystopian fiction, was inspired by events occurring in USSR, but the lessons are timeless, and universal warnings, that was the point of writing the book. That if it could happen there? It can happen anywhere. And? It HAS happened in lots of places, and it IS happening here. You are just too inculcated into the mass formation psychosis to recognize what is happening.

I mean, look at you! You are accusing me of being a "Russian bot," or a "Putin sympathizer," because I don't agree with you! That is a classic symptom. Sign up for your cult buddy.



All the warning signs have been indicated long ago;

The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Are you serious with that argument?

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MisterBeale]

Why. NATO didnt do anything to stop it.

NATO and the American meddling actually were what provoked the invasion.

As did violating the promise to Gorbachev not to expand NATO past Germany.

US gov’t knew NATO expansion to Ukraine would force Russia to intervene​

US gov't knew NATO expansion to Ukraine would force Russia to intervene - Geopolitical Economy Report

US Ambassador William Burns, now CIA director, admitted in 2008 embassy cable that NATO expansion to Ukraine crosses Russia's security "redlines" and could lead to violence which would force Moscow to intervene.

multipolarista.com

". . . Ukraine and Georgia’s NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia’s influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.. . .

Burns’ warnings came true just a few years later.. . ."

Cable: 08MOSCOW265_a

The CIA knew what it was doing. . . it wanted war, and it got one.

NATO should have never have been expanded. . . guarantees were given to Gorbachev, the west was NOT to be allowed to, and Putin is right. Nor were they allowed to place missiles in any of the new NATO members, which they have, since talks about the unification of Germany occurred.

Clausewitz: War as Politics by other Means | Online Library of Liberty

Related Links: Clausewitz Subject Area: War and Peace Source: Carl von Clausewitz, On War, trans. Col. J.J. Graham. New and Revised edition with Introduction and Notes by Col. F.N. Maude, in Three Volumes (London: Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner & C., 1918). Vol. 1. Chapter: CHAPTER I: WHAT IS WAR...

oll.libertyfund.org

WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA​

WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA

WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA

johnpilger.com

". . . Setting aside the manoeuvres and cynicism of geopolitics, whomever the players, this historical memory is the driving force behind Russia’s respect-seeking, self-protective security proposals, which were published in Moscow in the week the UN voted 130-2 to outlaw Nazism. They are:

- NATO guarantees that it will not deploy missiles in nations bordering Russia. (They are already in place from Slovenia to Romania, with Poland to follow)
- NATO to stop military and naval exercises in nations and seas bordering Russia.
- Ukraine will not become a member of NATO.
- the West and Russia to sign a binding East-West security pact.
- the landmark treaty between the US and Russia covering intermediate-range nuclear weapons to be restored. (The US abandoned it in 2019)

These amount to a comprehensive draft of a peace plan for all of post-war Europe and ought to be welcomed in the West. But who understands their significance in Britain? What they are told is that Putin is a pariah and a threat to Christendom.. . . "

Newly Declassified Documents: Gorbachev Told NATO Wouldn't Move Past East German Border​

Newly Declassified Documents: Gorbachev Told NATO Wouldn't Move Past East German Border

Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev was given a host of assurances that the NATO alliance would not expand past what was then the East German border in 1990 according to new declassified documents. Russian leaders often complain that the NATO extended an invitation to Hungary, Poland and what was...

nationalinterest.org

". . .Gorbachev only accepted German reunification—over which the Soviet Union had a legal right to veto under treaty—because he received assurances that NATO would not expand after he withdrew his forces from Eastern Europe from James Baker, President George H.W. Bush, West German foreign minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher, West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, the CIA Director Robert Gates, French President Francois Mitterrand, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, British foreign minister Douglas Hurd, British Prime Minister John Major, and NATO secretary-general Manfred Woerner.

Indeed, as late as March 1991, the British were reassuring Gorbachev that they could not foresee circumstances under which NATO might expand into Eastern and Central Europe. As former British Ambassador to the Soviet Union recounted in March 5, 1991, Rodric Braithwaite, both British foreign minister Douglas Hurd and British Prime Minister John Major told the Soviet that NATO would not expand eastwards.

“I believe that your thoughts about the role of NATO in the current situation are the result of misunderstanding,” Major had told Gorbachev. We are not talking about strengthening of NATO. We are talking about the coordination of efforts that is already happening in Europe between NATO and the West European Union, which, as it is envisioned, would allow all members of the European Community to contribute to enhance [our] security.”

US, UK, France Promised USSR Not to Expand NATO East of Germany, Newly Discovered Document Proves

21 Feb 2022 - A newly discovered document provides more evidence that Western governments broke their promise not to expand NATO eastward after German reunification. Notes from a 1991 meeting prove that the US, UK, France, and Germany assured the Soviet Union that NATO would not expand east. ...

www.transcend.org

". . The 2+4 negotiations were talks in 1990 that allowed for the reunification of Germany, featuring capitalist West Germany and socialist East Germany (the 2) along with the United States, Soviet Union, Britain, and France (the 4).

Chrobog’s comments in the notes, therefore, confirm that the Western powers had promised the USSR in 1990 that they would not expand NATO eastward after German reunification.

Further clarifying this fact, the document adds that there was a “general agreement that membership of NATO and security guarantees [are] unacceptable” for countries east of Germany.. . ."

 

[Friends2]

I already posted that link on cognitive dissonance for the person that started the thread OP.

You are now exhibiting it. I don't think we need anymore discussion, at the point where you think that the genetics, or somehow, the people of one nation, are inherently, "better," than another, by their location on the planet?

Yes, the dystopian fiction, was inspired by events occurring in USSR, but the lessons are timeless, and universal warnings, that was the point of writing the book. That if it could happen there? It can happen anywhere. And? It HAS happened in lots of places, and it IS happening here. You are just too inculcated into the mass formation psychosis to recognize what is happening.

I mean, look at you! You are accusing me of being a "Russian bot," or a "Putin sympathizer," because I don't agree with you! That is a classic symptom. Sign up for your cult buddy.



All the warning signs have been indicated long ago;

The End of America: Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Are you serious with that argument?

View attachment 701985

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What you say about me is untrue. I agree with the Democrats on some issues, and with the Republicans on other issues. It is fashionable to be liberal on social issues and conservative on economic issues, or as the voters of fashion say, "Fiscally conservative, socially liberal." I am the opposite. This is because I d my own thinking. I am not a partisan and an ideologue.

Even then, I am in favor of free abortion on demand at any time in pregnancy. I think the problem is not that some homosexuals want to get married. The problem is that many heterosexuals do not want to marry the people with whom they have children, and raise those children properly.

 

[Stann]

Another bloody infection that comes from the United States and infects the planet...

I think the Germans were the first ones to use the swastika for evil purposes. Nutcase is here in America use it today. Obviously Russia has their nut kisses too, like everyone else.

 

[Stann]

NATO started this in 2014.
View attachment 701747

Isn't that when Russia claimed Crimea as its own, and the then president of the Ukraine allowed him to do it, that's what Putin misses having a puppet government in the Ukraine during his will.

 

[Stann]

You're blaming the US for Russia's hard right Nazis?

I don't listen to anything Ringo says. He's really insane.

 

[Stann]

You're supporting genocide of innocent ethnic Russians then.

You mean the Russian back ethnic Russians who terrorized the the two Eastern provinces for years and murdered countless ukrainians. I don't think they're victims.

 

[skye]

Bullshit.

Democratic nations don't ban opposition parties, and control the press.

Hell, technically, Russia is more democratic.

What he says! ^^^

 

[Stann]

What you say about me is untrue. I agree with the Democrats on some issues, and with the Republicans on other issues. It is fashionable to be liberal on social issues and conservative on economic issues, or as the voters of fashion say, "Fiscally conservative, socially liberal." I am the opposite. This is because I d my own thinking. I am not a partisan and an ideologue.

Even then, I am in favor of free abortion on demand at any time in pregnancy. I think the problem is not that some homosexuals want to get married. The problem is that many heterosexuals do not want to marry the people with whom they have children, and raise those children properly.

You sound like you're more of an independent rather than either party. You think things through.

 

[the other mike]

You mean the Russian back ethnic Russians who terrorized the the two Eastern provinces for years and murdered countless ukrainians. I don't think they're victims.

The victims will be freezing Germans this winter.

 

[Stann]

Democracy is great. Till it doesn't go your way...

Russia does not have a democracy. The lack of a free press says mountains to that effect. The Ukraine was a lot further along this way to a good democracy. Russia is going backwards today.

 

[Stann]

The victims will be freezing Germans this winter.

I can't predict the future, but I'm pretty sure putin is about on his way out. This insanity has to end one way or another. The easiest solution would be to get rid of the insane man who started it all. It takes a lot for the Russian people to get motivated, but putin is definitely pushing all the right buttons to end his rule.

 

[Stann]

NATO and the American meddling actually were what provoked the invasion.

As did violating the promise to Gorbachev not to expand NATO past Germany.

US gov’t knew NATO expansion to Ukraine would force Russia to intervene​

US gov't knew NATO expansion to Ukraine would force Russia to intervene - Geopolitical Economy Report

US Ambassador William Burns, now CIA director, admitted in 2008 embassy cable that NATO expansion to Ukraine crosses Russia's security "redlines" and could lead to violence which would force Moscow to intervene.

multipolarista.com

". . . Ukraine and Georgia’s NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region. Not only does Russia perceive encirclement, and efforts to undermine Russia’s influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests. Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war. In that eventuality, Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face.. . .

Burns’ warnings came true just a few years later.. . ."

Cable: 08MOSCOW265_a

The CIA knew what it was doing. . . it wanted war, and it got one.

NATO should have never have been expanded. . . guarantees were given to Gorbachev, the west was NOT to be allowed to, and Putin is right. Nor were they allowed to place missiles in any of the new NATO members, which they have, since talks about the unification of Germany occurred.

Clausewitz: War as Politics by other Means | Online Library of Liberty

Related Links: Clausewitz Subject Area: War and Peace Source: Carl von Clausewitz, On War, trans. Col. J.J. Graham. New and Revised edition with Introduction and Notes by Col. F.N. Maude, in Three Volumes (London: Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner & C., 1918). Vol. 1. Chapter: CHAPTER I: WHAT IS WAR...

oll.libertyfund.org

WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA​

WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA

WAR IN EUROPE AND THE RISE OF RAW PROPAGANDA

johnpilger.com

". . . Setting aside the manoeuvres and cynicism of geopolitics, whomever the players, this historical memory is the driving force behind Russia’s respect-seeking, self-protective security proposals, which were published in Moscow in the week the UN voted 130-2 to outlaw Nazism. They are:

- NATO guarantees that it will not deploy missiles in nations bordering Russia. (They are already in place from Slovenia to Romania, with Poland to follow)
- NATO to stop military and naval exercises in nations and seas bordering Russia.
- Ukraine will not become a member of NATO.
- the West and Russia to sign a binding East-West security pact.
- the landmark treaty between the US and Russia covering intermediate-range nuclear weapons to be restored. (The US abandoned it in 2019)

These amount to a comprehensive draft of a peace plan for all of post-war Europe and ought to be welcomed in the West. But who understands their significance in Britain? What they are told is that Putin is a pariah and a threat to Christendom.. . . "

Newly Declassified Documents: Gorbachev Told NATO Wouldn't Move Past East German Border​

Newly Declassified Documents: Gorbachev Told NATO Wouldn't Move Past East German Border

Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev was given a host of assurances that the NATO alliance would not expand past what was then the East German border in 1990 according to new declassified documents. Russian leaders often complain that the NATO extended an invitation to Hungary, Poland and what was...

nationalinterest.org

". . .Gorbachev only accepted German reunification—over which the Soviet Union had a legal right to veto under treaty—because he received assurances that NATO would not expand after he withdrew his forces from Eastern Europe from James Baker, President George H.W. Bush, West German foreign minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher, West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl, the CIA Director Robert Gates, French President Francois Mitterrand, British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, British foreign minister Douglas Hurd, British Prime Minister John Major, and NATO secretary-general Manfred Woerner.

Indeed, as late as March 1991, the British were reassuring Gorbachev that they could not foresee circumstances under which NATO might expand into Eastern and Central Europe. As former British Ambassador to the Soviet Union recounted in March 5, 1991, Rodric Braithwaite, both British foreign minister Douglas Hurd and British Prime Minister John Major told the Soviet that NATO would not expand eastwards.

“I believe that your thoughts about the role of NATO in the current situation are the result of misunderstanding,” Major had told Gorbachev. We are not talking about strengthening of NATO. We are talking about the coordination of efforts that is already happening in Europe between NATO and the West European Union, which, as it is envisioned, would allow all members of the European Community to contribute to enhance [our] security.”

US, UK, France Promised USSR Not to Expand NATO East of Germany, Newly Discovered Document Proves

21 Feb 2022 - A newly discovered document provides more evidence that Western governments broke their promise not to expand NATO eastward after German reunification. Notes from a 1991 meeting prove that the US, UK, France, and Germany assured the Soviet Union that NATO would not expand east. ...

www.transcend.org

". . The 2+4 negotiations were talks in 1990 that allowed for the reunification of Germany, featuring capitalist West Germany and socialist East Germany (the 2) along with the United States, Soviet Union, Britain, and France (the 4).

Chrobog’s comments in the notes, therefore, confirm that the Western powers had promised the USSR in 1990 that they would not expand NATO eastward after German reunification.

Further clarifying this fact, the document adds that there was a “general agreement that membership of NATO and security guarantees [are] unacceptable” for countries east of Germany.. . ."

You're trying to blame it on NATO and America. I'm sorry putin is an adult, he might be insane but he's an adult and he's responsible for his own actions. He lied to the world and then invaded another country that he thinks he owns.

 

[the other mike]

Russia does not have a democracy. The lack of a free press says mountains to that effect. The Ukraine was a lot further along this way to a good democracy. Russia is going backwards today.

Have you been there ?
Lol
Of course not

We don't have a democracy either. We live in a constitutional republic that's being run by a shadow government working outside of the Constitution

 

[the other mike]

. The easiest solution would be to get rid of the insane man who started it all.

Henry Kissinger?
Yeah maybe.

 

[skye]

The victims will be freezing Germans this winter.

Exactly.

Not only Germans but many other countries in the EU will freeze this winter!

Oh well, Globlalist stupidity has its price.

 

[MisterBeale]

You're trying to blame it on NATO and America. I'm sorry putin is an adult, he might be insane but he's an adult and he's responsible for his own actions. He lied to the world and then invaded another country that he thinks he owns.

Nope, wrong. I just proved you wrong and you know it.

I posted receipts, you have nothing but your lying words.

Deal with your hurt feelings.

 

[Stann]

Have you been there ?
Lol
Of course not

We don't have a democracy either. We live in a constitutional republic that's being run by a shadow government working outside of the Constitution

LOL, you can say any b******* you want on here and the government doesn't care. No one's going to come after you no matter how much you bad mouth our government. You go to Russia ( I don't want to, never have. ) And try bad-mouthing the government and see what happens to you. Protest against the government in the streets and see how many years in prison you get or forced into the military against your will. And the courts aren't about Justice they're about supporting the government's ( or in this case) / dictators wishes. That is not a democracy, it's the total opposite of a democracy.

 

[Stann]

Nope, wrong. I just proved you wrong and you know it.

I posted receipts, you have nothing but your lying words.

Deal with your hurt feelings.

Correct all I have is my words. You have a whole list of propaganda items at your disposal that you obviously attempt to influence others with. The bottom line is what you think what you support what's your ideals are. And no matter how you put it I cannot support and insane dictator like Putin. There's absolutely no justification for him to invade the Ukraine. It would be like us attack in Canada because we don't like their trading practices. It's utterly ridiculous.

 

[MisterBeale]

The victims will be freezing Germans this winter.

See? That is the part that doesn't make sense about this whole thing.

If you listened to the podcast in post two, they commented on how, Ukraine is STILL letting Russia ship gas through Ukraine, and paying them to do so.

Like, wtf?!

Was Hitler doing business with Stalin while they were at war? Fuck no.

So what the hell is going on? Why is Russia still paying Ukraine, and selling its product to Europe? And why is Europe still buying some of it?

I had heard some conspiracy theory a long time ago, that Putin was a double or triple agent with both/either or, MI6/Mossad around the time of the fall of the Berlin wall.

I honestly don't know what to think sometimes. ???