Dem Congressman takes apart tea party whiner

[SFC Ollie]

The "she said that OSHA showed up without warning" is really, really a stupid line.

The whole point is to show up without warning. Duh.

In fact - it is against the law to give warning.

I'm afraid not.

Normally, OSHA conducts inspections without advanced notice. Employers have a right to require compliance Officers to obtain an inspection warrant before entering the worksite.

https://www.osha.gov/OshDoc/data_General_Facts/factsheet-inspections.pdf

 

[JohnL.Burke]

LOL! I never meant to imply that the government agencies didn't have any other stated excuses to harass Engbrecht other than " We don't like you tea baggers trying to clean up elections".
I'm not going to be as liberal with the word "lie" as you are but I find that Engelbrecht's situation should be investigated as well as other conservative groups who were targeted by the IRS. I think it's only fair. Especially since the IRS has already said that it targeted conservative groups (even though they say it was an accident or something).

 

[paperview]

The "she said that OSHA showed up without warning" is really, really a stupid line.

The whole point is to show up without warning. Duh.

In fact - it is against the law to give warning.

I'm afraid not.

Normally, OSHA conducts inspections without advanced notice. Employers have a right to require compliance Officers to obtain an inspection warrant before entering the worksite.

https://www.osha.gov/OshDoc/data_General_Facts/factsheet-inspections.pdf

You didn't refute what I said.

 

[paperview]

LOL! I never meant to imply that the government agencies didn't have any other stated excuses to harass Engbrecht other than " We don't like you tea baggers trying to clean up elections".
I'm not going to be as liberal with the word "lie" as you are but I find that Engelbrecht's situation should be investigated as well as other conservative groups who were targeted by the IRS. I think it's only fair. Especially since the IRS has already said that it targeted conservative groups (even though they say it was an accident or something).

As was shown in the thread, (which I'm sure you haven't taken the time to read, nor would you care) Engelbrecht has a history of deception and duplicity.

Don't you think it strange Engelbrecht would make such a to-do about being visited by the ATF - as if it was some big plot to "get her" -- when the company applied for a Federal Class 7 Firearms license to manufacture gun parts -- and a visit is required?

But no, we get people following her bait whistle going OMGADZ! The ATF visited her???

And the OSHA? And FBI --they too were explained, but no...it's a Glenn Beck chalkline turning it into some con-spear-o-see to "get 'er!"

I stated earlier I am only too happy to have the story of Engelbrecht and the other tea party groups exposed -- as well as ALL tax exempt orgs. Left and Right.

I have been following the shenanigans of True the Vote for years now, and nothing would please me more than to have people digging around her stories to show how she lies and is working to undermine our system.

Anyone who does that should exposed.

 

[JohnL.Burke]

I see you're going to gloss over the actual details of the case while accusing everyone who questions the timing as being conspiracy theorists. Nothing new.

 

[SFC Ollie]

The "she said that OSHA showed up without warning" is really, really a stupid line.

The whole point is to show up without warning. Duh.

In fact - it is against the law to give warning.

I'm afraid not.

Normally, OSHA conducts inspections without advanced notice. Employers have a right to require compliance Officers to obtain an inspection warrant before entering the worksite.

https://www.osha.gov/OshDoc/data_General_Facts/factsheet-inspections.pdf

You didn't refute what I said.

Twist the words anyway you want if the owners knew they were there they could have requested a warrant before OSHA could enter their property.... That does not sound like it's illegal to notify anyone ahead of time....

 

[paperview]

I'm afraid not.




https://www.osha.gov/OshDoc/data_General_Facts/factsheet-inspections.pdf

You didn't refute what I said.

Twist the words anyway you want if the owners knew they were there they could have requested a warrant before OSHA could enter their property.... That does not sound like it's illegal to notify anyone ahead of time....

From the hearing:

CONNOLLY: “Well, I would just note for the record, Mrs Englebrecht and Mr Sekulow, because we're so concerned about the law here, and making sure that there are no violations of the law. Are you aware that it's actually illegal for the Department of Labor's OSHA to give advance notice when it does inspections? — That's actually a matter of law.”

ENGLEBRECHT: “I was not aware of that. But I'm not contending that they should have given us advance notice. I'm only observing —”

CONNOLLY: “But you complained about it. You complained that you didn't get advance notice, and you just said you were concerned that neither your husband — I understand the concern — but they can't check in advance to see whether you'll be there.”

ENGLEBRECHT: “Nor did we do anything to try and discourage that process even though we weren't on premises.”

CONNOLLY: “And I absolutely take that at face value. But it's a huge leap then, given that, to conclude that someone's out to get you, Mrs Englebrecht. That there's any political motivation whatsoever with OSHA following it's standard operating procedures.”

https://grabien.com/file.php?id=13823&searchorder=date

 

[Dot Com]

I'm afraid not.

https://www.osha.gov/OshDoc/data_General_Facts/factsheet-inspections.pdf

You didn't refute what I said.

Twist the words anyway you want if the owners knew they were there they could have requested a warrant before OSHA could enter their property.... That does not sound like it's illegal to notify anyone ahead of time....

it would defeat the whole premise of an "inspection" to notify the shop before hand. Does the Fire Marshall call ahead to notify people that they're going to be inspected?

 

[SFC Ollie]

You didn't refute what I said.

Twist the words anyway you want if the owners knew they were there they could have requested a warrant before OSHA could enter their property.... That does not sound like it's illegal to notify anyone ahead of time....

From the hearing:

CONNOLLY: “Well, I would just note for the record, Mrs Englebrecht and Mr Sekulow, because we're so concerned about the law here, and making sure that there are no violations of the law. Are you aware that it's actually illegal for the Department of Labor's OSHA to give advance notice when it does inspections? — That's actually a matter of law.”

ENGLEBRECHT: “I was not aware of that. But I'm not contending that they should have given us advance notice. I'm only observing —”

CONNOLLY: “But you complained about it. You complained that you didn't get advance notice, and you just said you were concerned that neither your husband — I understand the concern — but they can't check in advance to see whether you'll be there.”

ENGLEBRECHT: “Nor did we do anything to try and discourage that process even though we weren't on premises.”

CONNOLLY: “And I absolutely take that at face value. But it's a huge leap then, given that, to conclude that someone's out to get you, Mrs Englebrecht. That there's any political motivation whatsoever with OSHA following it's standard operating procedures.”

https://grabien.com/file.php?id=13823&searchorder=date

So the congressman is wrong. I posted straight from OSHA's page. It wouldn't be the first time some congressman was wrong, no matter what party they belong to.

 

[SFC Ollie]

You didn't refute what I said.

Twist the words anyway you want if the owners knew they were there they could have requested a warrant before OSHA could enter their property.... That does not sound like it's illegal to notify anyone ahead of time....

it would defeat the whole premise of an "inspection" to notify the shop before hand. Does the Fire Marshall call ahead to notify people that they're going to be inspected?

The employer can request a warrant.....That is right from OSHAs page.... Not difficult to understand.

 

[paperview]

Twist the words anyway you want if the owners knew they were there they could have requested a warrant before OSHA could enter their property.... That does not sound like it's illegal to notify anyone ahead of time....

it would defeat the whole premise of an "inspection" to notify the shop before hand. Does the Fire Marshall call ahead to notify people that they're going to be inspected?

The employer can request a warrant.....That is right from OSHAs page.... Not difficult to understand.

First, as she said, she had no objection to them being there, nor would have. Did you miss that?

Second, Him saying it's actually illegal for the Department of Labor's OSHA to give advance notice when it does inspections is not incorrect.

The process would simply be delayed shortly as they can come up with one pert quick - there is a very low bar.

Oh! And look, right out of the OSHA manual:

"Workers sometimes think that management knows about an OSHA inspection in
advance. However, it is a crime for OSHA employees to give unauthorized advance
notice of an inspection. Sometimes a delay between the inspector's arrival at the
workplace and the beginning of the inspection allows time for employers to change
conditions."

https://www.osha.gov/dte/grant_materials/fy10/sh-20853-10/osha_inspections.pdf

OOps.

 

[JoeB131]

Some of these arguments against Engelbrecht might make some sense if it weren't for the fact that it wasn't just Osha that investigated Engelbrecht but also the FBI, IRS, ATF.

You mean she was cheating on her taxes as WELL as endangering her employees.

HOnestly, when that many people who work for you break bad, you're probably a really shitty boss.

 

[JoeB131]

LOL! I never meant to imply that the government agencies didn't have any other stated excuses to harass Engbrecht other than " We don't like you tea baggers trying to clean up elections".
I'm not going to be as liberal with the word "lie" as you are but I find that Engelbrecht's situation should be investigated as well as other conservative groups who were targeted by the IRS. I think it's only fair. Especially since the IRS has already said that it targeted conservative groups (even though they say it was an accident or something).

No, it wasn't an "Accident".

Conservatives were deliberately trying to cheat the tax code by claiming political groups were social welfare organizations.

That's why they were being investigated.

So it's not surprising the kind of Conservative Shitheel who would try to cheat the tax code would be the same kind of shitheel who wouldn't provide employees with proper safety equipment.

Because they're assholes.

Thank God we have a government to protect us from these sorts of people.

 

[HenryBHough]

Call upon strangers much?

 

[paperview]

Call upon strangers much?

Was that supposed to make sense?

 

[SFC Ollie]

it would defeat the whole premise of an "inspection" to notify the shop before hand. Does the Fire Marshall call ahead to notify people that they're going to be inspected?

The employer can request a warrant.....That is right from OSHAs page.... Not difficult to understand.

First, as she said, she had no objection to them being there, nor would have. Did you miss that?

Second, Him saying it's actually illegal for the Department of Labor's OSHA to give advance notice when it does inspections is not incorrect.

The process would simply be delayed shortly as they can come up with one pert quick - there is a very low bar.

Oh! And look, right out of the OSHA manual:

"Workers sometimes think that management knows about an OSHA inspection in
advance. However, it is a crime for OSHA employees to give unauthorized advance
notice of an inspection. Sometimes a delay between the inspector's arrival at the
workplace and the beginning of the inspection allows time for employers to change
conditions."

https://www.osha.gov/dte/grant_materials/fy10/sh-20853-10/osha_inspections.pdf

OOps.

You want to play with words we can do it all day, keyword here would be unauthorized.

 

[HenryBHough]

Call upon strangers much?

Was that supposed to make sense?

Liberal low-comprehension reading scores probably caused you to miss this line in the preceding:


"Thank God we have a government to protect us from these sorts of people."

Colour added to make it harder for you to miss.

 

[paperview]

...err.....Ooookay.

 

[paperview]

The employer can request a warrant.....That is right from OSHAs page.... Not difficult to understand.

First, as she said, she had no objection to them being there, nor would have. Did you miss that?

Second, Him saying it's actually illegal for the Department of Labor's OSHA to give advance notice when it does inspections is not incorrect.

The process would simply be delayed shortly as they can come up with one pert quick - there is a very low bar.

Oh! And look, right out of the OSHA manual:

"Workers sometimes think that management knows about an OSHA inspection in
advance. However, it is a crime for OSHA employees to give unauthorized advance
notice of an inspection. Sometimes a delay between the inspector's arrival at the
workplace and the beginning of the inspection allows time for employers to change
conditions."

https://www.osha.gov/dte/grant_materials/fy10/sh-20853-10/osha_inspections.pdf

OOps.

You want to play with words we can do it all day, keyword here would be unauthorized.

Quit yer shit.

You declared "I'm afraid not" when I stated

The "she said that OSHA showed up without warning" is really, really a stupid line.

The whole point is to show up without warning. Duh.

In fact - it is against the law to give warning.


You're the one playing word games. Eat it.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Paperview: Thanks for this and your other posts giving more explanations for your viewpoints. I sent this list to Chris X Radio who played the testimony tape on his radio show.

It seems there is such a conflict of political interests, both sides can say the other is justifying their biases.

If it is true that an Obama contributor headed the investigation that found no wrongdoing, that is going to be contested as a conflict of interest and biased.

Anyone who was serious about an investigation would make it bipartisan or nonpartisan, and not set up to fail.

So unless we change the structure, this type of conflict will continue and get nowhere. This is truly pathetic, that each administration goes after and targets political groups on the other side. And look the other way when it comes to conflicts of interest with campaign contributors.

I truly hope both parties get smart and set up internal structures of directing taxes, or contributions, or taxes on contributions, of their own party members and sponsors to go directly into programs and policies they believe in and want to succeed. That way, it is in their best interest to police the purse strings, and only their party is affected by their own internal corruption they are responsible for fixing.

the federal govt should only be in charge of policies that all sides agree with uniformally, and support in good faith and with fully committed conscience and conviction, so there is less motivation to corrupt or steal funds from the process and divert elsewhere because people politically or religiously disagree and don't support funding which just invites this backstabbing behavior.

all programs should be so effective with unified support that people WANT them to work
so there is no conflict of interest in trying to abuse or divert resources or authority.

This has just gotten out of hand. We need to clean up the govt and get all the party politics out so there is no incentive to play any games, cover up, or appear so to invoke suspicion or backlash.

All of this entanglement needs to be avoided by separating funding by party
and keep it away apart and out of federal govt and public administration hands.

Just privatize it like religions do, where organization leaders and members are responsible for
policing their own in house programs. the parties would be too busy building and investing in their own sustainable programs they want to continue, they won't sabotage each other.
Parties can follow the same rules and structure of govt, but keep their programs voluntarily funded and followed by members who choose to contribute and participate because they believe in them.

why compete for power and control when they can control their own party platforms without any interference from others.

Some of these arguments against Engelbrecht might make some sense if it weren't for the fact that it wasn't just Osha that investigated Engelbrecht but also the FBI, IRS, ATF.

Let's get this straight...this is a quick run down of the Catherine Engelbrecht True the Vote fiasco.

OSHA visited them only once in 20 years, found serious violations at their machine shop, and even allowed them to negotiate down the fine.
The shop was visited because it was "part of an OSHA initiative to inspect fabricated metal products manufacturers in Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Texas and New Mexico." Fact checking Ron Johnson 'victim' Catherine Engelbrecht's OSHA claims :

FBI - Called her, in 2010 --- regarding a suspected domestic terrorist at one of their King Street Patriots meetings. 2010. No FBI investigation on them. An inquiry. Even SHE admits that. And it had to do with her King Street Patriots arm, not True the Vote.

"Five months after she filed for 501(c)(4) status for KSP, Engelbrecht says the FBI Domestic Terrorism Unit called her about one of the people who had attended a KSP group meeting. Five months after that, the FBI called her again to ask “how we were doing?” A month later on June 2011, she received another FBI general inquiry, which was followed by two more in November and December."
Local Tea Party founder claims she was targeted by several federal agencies | Fox News

It should be noted as well -- just before this a mysterious fire in a warehouse destroyed all of the voting equipment and machines in Houston, for 800 polling places - just before the election. Whether that had anything to do with it, not known.

BATF: In 2009 the company secured a federal license to manufacture gun parts. Yes, a Class 7 Federal Firearms License.
An ATF spokesperson told Local 2 since the business received its license in 2009, the Bureau needed to conduct an inspection within a three year period, as is routine for other similar businesses.

TCEQ: (Texas Commission on Environmental Quality also inspected) Engelbrecht Manufacturing after officials received an anonymous complaint."The TCEQ received a complaint against Engelbrecht Manufacturing in October, alleging improper handling of metal shavings. TCEQ investigated, and we are requiring the company to obtain required storm water permits and take other actions to prevent discharge of industrial solid waste. "The TCEQ can state without reservation that we were not directed to investigate Engelbrecht Manufacturing by any federal agency or any other agency." A database maintained by the TCEQ shows this was the only inspection of Engelbrecht Manufacturing since it began operations." Houston-area couple questions federal, state scrutiny | News - Home

Considering she lied about the OSHA findings (claimed they were not serious) -- and part of her objection was they visited her unannounced (duh, the point of an OSHA audit is to come unannounced) she lied about the AFT (their federal license to manufacture gun parts required a visit!), she lied about the TCEQ (made it sound like it was not resultant due to a complaint of their handling of metal shavings and required them to take care of industrial waste) -- She lied about the non partisan nature of her CHARITY organization (gave $$ to RNC offshoot) and lied about True the Vote being in favor of Early Voting (see the testimony from the most recent hearing) -- how do we know Catherine Engelbrecht isn't lying about the IRS personal audits she says she is subject to? It could have been just a phone call about a number. It could have been she was actually cheating the government. She's been proven to be less than honest.

But we'll never know. She won't tell us, and the IRS can't say.

We CAN say -- the IRS was absolutely doing their duty to scrutinize this group that was seeking CHARITY (501c3) status.