Defining Conservatism

[Missouri_Mike]

There was a time when Conservatives used to define themselves as Family Values and Balanced Budgets

Somehow they call Trump Conservative

Two things you never give a flying fuck about.

I have been married 39 years to a woman I cherish and raised two wonderful sons.
I have worked hard my whole life and retired with an above average lifestyle

My goodness you fucking heathen. How dare you consign your wife to being a woman? You paternal asshole.

And you call your offspring sons!? WTF is wrong with you? You can’t just define someone’s gender like that!

And you working for your living and retiring with spending money. You pig. If you’d have paid your fair share and given that money to a black person you would be a better person but no, you stole that from generations of slaves and profited from their labor due to your white heteronormative privilege.

You sack of shit.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Opposition to anything new

lol..."New" is just a transparent attempt to hide behind the mindlessness of white liberals....
like making straws and balloons illegal while handing out needles to addicts..."new" enough?...
...I'm not sure at this point in time there is a definition for "conservative" because the conservatism I know/knew didn't have the guts to face down the white left wing privilege class the way this "new" version does..
...and while I enjoy its smash and grab tactics over the privilege liberal class I much preferred their "classic coke" version Reagan/will/sowell/malkin/bennet etc. etc.

 

[Mac1958]

just curious, are you a hardcore Marxist Communist?

Not yet.
Give Trump another four years.

Okay, thanks.

 

[rightwinger]

You mean, like when Obama gave our Nuclear reactor technology to China? I

You lie!
He didn’t give Nuclear Technology to China, he gave it to ISIS

 

[rightwinger]

like making straws and balloons illegal while handing out needles to addicts..."new" enough?...

Yes, because it makes sense

Conservatives would rather drug addicts die of hepititis.
Serves them right

 

[kyzr]

Before Trump "conservatives" (aka "globalists") were on their way to being a minority.
Trump's populist agenda stopped the slide and is gaining popularity with many middle-class democrats, especially union members who want more US jobs.

U.S. Still Leans Conservative, but Liberals Keep Recent Gains

The nation's ideological balance held steady in 2018, with conservatives and moderates each at 35% and liberals remaining at last year's record high, 26%.

news.gallup.com

View attachment 369468

RINOs like Mitt and George Will et.al. can have their moribund "conservative" ideology.

Cult45 aren't conservatives. They're barely Americans. They're rat fucks.

Troll much? OK
You can either vote with the police, or vote with the criminals. The difference is my troll is true.

 

[georgephillip]

Again, entirely false. Facts over opinion. We know what the founding principals of the nation were, because we stated them openly in some of founding documents, including....

The Declaration of Independence: Full text We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

White supremacy, genocide, and chattel slavery are all historical facts NOT opinions in American History. "All men are created equal" but only white males who owned property were entitled to vote.

Many of those propertied white males who signed the Declaration of Independence used slaves to farm land stolen from indigenous Americans.

That is historical fact; your opinion to the contrary is fiction, or worse.

United States Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia

"The apparent contradiction between the claim that 'all men are created equal' and the existence of American slavery attracted comment when the Declaration was first published.

"As mentioned above,[177] Jefferson had included a paragraph in his initial draft that strongly indicted Great Britain's role in the slave trade, but this was deleted from the final version.[178]

"Jefferson himself was a prominent Virginia slave holder, having owned hundreds of slaves.[179]

"Referring to this seeming contradiction, English abolitionist Thomas Day wrote in a 1776 letter, 'If there be an object truly ridiculous in nature, it is an American patriot, signing resolutions of independency with the one hand, and with the other brandishing a whip over his affrighted slaves.'[1"

 

[j-mac]

Again, entirely false. Facts over opinion. We know what the founding principals of the nation were, because we stated them openly in some of founding documents, including....

The Declaration of Independence: Full text We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

White supremacy, genocide, and chattel slavery are all historical facts NOT opinions in American History. "All men are created equal" but only white males who owned property were entitled to vote.

Many of those propertied white males who signed the Declaration of Independence used slaves to farm land stolen from indigenous Americans.

That is historical fact; your opinion to the contrary is fiction, or worse.

United States Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia

"The apparent contradiction between the claim that 'all men are created equal' and the existence of American slavery attracted comment when the Declaration was first published.

"As mentioned above,[177] Jefferson had included a paragraph in his initial draft that strongly indicted Great Britain's role in the slave trade, but this was deleted from the final version.[178]

"Jefferson himself was a prominent Virginia slave holder, having owned hundreds of slaves.[179]

"Referring to this seeming contradiction, English abolitionist Thomas Day wrote in a 177A

Again, entirely false. Facts over opinion. We know what the founding principals of the nation were, because we stated them openly in some of founding documents, including....

The Declaration of Independence: Full text We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

White supremacy, genocide, and chattel slavery are all historical facts NOT opinions in American History. "All men are created equal" but only white males who owned property were entitled to vote.

Many of those propertied white males who signed the Declaration of Independence used slaves to farm land stolen from indigenous Americans.

That is historical fact; your opinion to the contrary is fiction, or worse.

United States Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia

"The apparent contradiction between the claim that 'all men are created equal' and the existence of American slavery attracted comment when the Declaration was first published.

"As mentioned above,[177] Jefferson had included a paragraph in his initial draft that strongly indicted Great Britain's role in the slave trade, but this was deleted from the final version.[178]

"Jefferson himself was a prominent Virginia slave holder, having owned hundreds of slaves.[179]

"Referring to this seeming contradiction, English abolitionist Thomas Day wrote in a 1776 letter, 'If there be an object truly ridiculous in nature, it is an American patriot, signing resolutions of independency with the one hand, and with the other brandishing a whip over his affrighted slaves.'[1"

Are you actually trying to use Wikipedia as a source? Really? lol....

So, If I take your premise, then America is an illegitimate country because early American's conquered the land from the Native Indians? If that were the case then NONE of the lands that make up countries in the world would be legitimate.

 

[georgephillip]

actually, the divine right of king, is more akin to the liberal view of the State being the giver of rights. while conservatives see rights as god given

And kings were selected by god to rule over society.
Conservatives killed and died for centuries in support of that lie.

Who Are the Conservatives? - Meet the Modern American Types of Conservatives - Conservative Myths

"The divine right of kings, divine right, or God's mandate is a political and religious doctrine of political legitimacy in a monarchy.

"It stems from a specific metaphysical framework in which a king (or queen) is pre-ordained to inherit the crown before their birth.

"Under this theory of political legitimacy the subjects of the crown are considered to have actively (rather than merely passively) turned over the metaphysical selection of the king's soul – which will inhabit the body and rule them – over to God."

Divine right of kings - Wikipedia

 

[georgephillip]

Are you actually trying to use Wikipedia as a source? Really? lol....

Are you actually arrogant enough to believe you know more than Wikipedia? If so, feel free to contradict any specific claim I made based on Wiki.

 

[j-mac]

Are you actually trying to use Wikipedia as a source? Really? lol....

Are you actually arrogant enough to believe you know more than Wikipedia? If so, feel free to contradict any specific claim I made based on Wiki.

From the pages of Wikipedia itself....

" Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Wikipedia can be edited by anyone at any time. This means that any information it contains at any particular time could be vandalism, a work in progress, or just plain wrong....

Therefore, Wikipedia should not be considered a definitive source in and of itself. "

Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a reliable source - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

 

[georgephillip]

So, If I take your premise, then America is an illegitimate country because early American's conquered the land from the Native Indians?

My premise is simply that white supremacy, chattel slavery, and genocide are founding principles of the USA. Do you disagree?

 

[georgephillip]

mac asked you a question. you afraid to answer? oh, and it is simple question. the more evasive you get, the more you will show mac that i am right, and you are a genocidal commie..

Mac's indicated he's satisfied with my answer to HIS question. Maybe you should take the hint?

 

[georgephillip]

Its the clinging to a brand no matter what they put in the can. the need to be owned, controlled, lead.
Followers. not a bad thing, but do we have to be brain dead zombies? never question never search beyond our comfort zone.
Things are not getting better.

Things are getting worse much faster than anyone can keep up with:

The Great Unraveling Has Begun

"On Thursday, we learned that U.S. GDP was down 32.9 percent on an annualized basis last quarter.

"That officially makes last quarter the worst quarter in all of U.S. history, and many people believe that this new economic depression is just getting started.

"But of course not all areas of the country are being affected equally. According to USA Today, states such as Hawaii, Nevada, Michigan and New York were hit particularly hard last quarter… "

 

[j-mac]

So, If I take your premise, then America is an illegitimate country because early American's conquered the land from the Native Indians?

My premise is simply that white supremacy, chattel slavery, and genocide are founding principles of the USA. Do you disagree?

Yes, I do....You'll have to expand on your talking points in detail for me to respond, much less take you seriously.

 

[georgephillip]

"President Donald Trump's racist comments about Democratic congresswomen have won him renewed support from white supremacists who had been losing faith that he was the hero they wanted to create a prospering White America.

That is opinion, not fact.

Prominent white supremacists endorsed Trump's racist comments
Do you regularly monitor Trump's tweets?

Many racists do, and they celebrated what he said about the four non-white members of congress:

White supremacists cheer Trump racist tweets

"'Man, President Trump's Twitter account has been pure fire lately. This might be the funniest thing he's ever tweeted. This is the kind of WHITE NATIONALISM we elected him for,' wrote Andrew Anglin on his Daily Stormer site -- one of the most highly trafficked neo-Nazi websites.

"'And we're obviously seeing it only because there's another election coming up. But I'll tell you, even knowing that, it still feels so good.'"

 

[georgephillip]

Again, entirely false. Facts over opinion. We know what the founding principals of the nation were, because we stated them openly in some of founding documents, including....

The Declaration of Independence: Full text We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

White supremacy, genocide, and chattel slavery are all historical facts NOT opinions in American History

Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how........it is done. These places need your help badly, you can’t leave fast enough. I’m sure that Nancy Pelosi would be very happy to quickly work out free travel arrangements!

Your post contradicts your claim.
Trump told Americans who were born here "why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places they can from."

Rational thinking is something Trump isn't equipped for.

Donald Trump did not say "Go back" as statement. Simply never happened.

He said following.....

 

[Andylusion]

There is no real question what Conservatism espouses; it has not changed since the days of Barry Goldwater.

• Economic freedom.
• Constitutionally-minimalist Federal Government,
• Traditional Judeo-Christian values,
• Fiscal conservatism,
• Strong defense,
• etc.

What happened was that Liberals (or use whatever other term you like) embarked on a decades-long campaign to buy the votes of American voters with government cash and benefits. The American people were (and are) too ignorant to see that this is not the rightful role of the Federal government. All they saw was that there were all sorts of goodies flowing out from Washington and this one group of people (Democrats/Liberals) was responsible for it.

Further, when Republicans tried to "right the ship" and curtail this spending (welfare, food stamps, Medicaid, housing subsidies, college grants and loans), ALL OF WHICH WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, as well as being fiscally irresponsible, the Liberals and the Media, ganged up on the Conservatives, calling them heartless, mean, stingy, racist, and cruel. This goes on at an accelerated pace to this very day.

Well, Conservative politicians are politicians first, and they understood that unless they got with the program of reckless taxpayer-funded giveaways, they would be riding their Conservative principles into the sunset and right out of office.

So today's Conservatives have put themselves in the untenable position of having to support outrageous and unconstitutional government spending, merely to have any chance of remaining in office. Which of course violates one of the core principles of Conservatism: Fiscal Responsibility.

Look at the current brouhaha about the Covid 19 giveaways. Where (the fuck) in the Constitution does Congress get the power to send out trillions of dollars indiscriminately to unemployed people to ease their pain? It is Constitutional and fiscally preposterous and catastrophically stupid. So the Conservatives/Republicans are in the absurd position of arguing to ONLY spend a couple trillion dollars that we don't have rather than more trillions of dollars that we don't have - and have no clue how we will ever pay for.

But one can never forget, this fight about Conservative VALUES must be ENTIRELY INTERNAL amongst those who consider themselves Conservatives. Democrats have no place in the discussion. They have long ago sold their figurative souls to the devil, so it is literally none of their business how Conservatives deal with the political reality of a voting population demanding free, unconstitutional goodies from Government, and promising to vote against anyone who is not on board.

It sure has strayed far afield from your description.

If fiscal conservatives has been jettisoned....what will counter balance the Democrats?

Well that is the problem. That's the big issue with Trump. It is not that we have jettisoned fiscal conservatism.

It's just that there is no better option right now.

Trust me.... if this election was between Herman Cain, and Donald Trump... I would be voting with Cain.

The problem is, it isn't Cain opposite Trump. It's the Democrats. And that's a problem, because Democrats are insane.

Elizabeth Warren says 'there's always money' when asked how she'll pay for her policies | Blaze Media

If only that were true

www.theblaze.com

"So the answer is yes. And pay for it? This is about our priorities, what matters most to us," Warren answered. "A budget is about priorities. ... The way I see it, there's always, come on, there's always money. It's there."

I mean..... oh come on..... there's always money! Always! Come on!

So no, conservatives have no "jettisoned" fiscal conservatism. There just simply isn't a good option right now.

agreed. cain's tax plan was actually radical. trump's policies are completely mainstream.

Well I didn't like the sales tax. But I was fine with the flat tax. Sales tax is just a poor tax.

a sales tax is "regressive" in nature. but, it lets you take the irs out of normal people's lives. that is worth a lot.


and, if people don't like it, they can alway vote for politicians who don't want to control everything.

Yeah..... but that assumes that you do away with the income tax. Cains plan did not include eliminating the income tax.

The problem with the sales tax, is that you can't point to a single case where implementing the sales tax, got rid of the other taxes.

Instead they just end up having all the taxes. So not a fan.

 

[Andylusion]

"President Donald Trump's racist comments about Democratic congresswomen have won him renewed support from white supremacists who had been losing faith that he was the hero they wanted to create a prospering White America.

That is opinion, not fact.

Prominent white supremacists endorsed Trump's racist comments
Do you regularly monitor Trump's tweets?

Many racists do, and they celebrated what he said about the four non-white members of congress:

White supremacists cheer Trump racist tweets

"'Man, President Trump's Twitter account has been pure fire lately. This might be the funniest thing he's ever tweeted. This is the kind of WHITE NATIONALISM we elected him for,' wrote Andrew Anglin on his Daily Stormer site -- one of the most highly trafficked neo-Nazi websites.

"'And we're obviously seeing it only because there's another election coming up. But I'll tell you, even knowing that, it still feels so good.'"

So now in your world, guilt by association?

Farrakhan sings Obama's praises

www.chicagotribune.com

Farrakhan Again Describes Hitler as a 'Very Great Man' (Published 1984)

www.nytimes.com

​

Louis Farrakhan, the leader of the Nation of Islam, has repeated for a national television audience his description of Adolf Hitler as ''a very great man.''​

I guess Democrats are a bunch of racists bigots.... according to your own standard of guilt by association.

(silently watches Georgy dig his own grave)

 

[Andylusion]

Greed of politicians? Obama is worth over $145 million! He was worth barely $1 million when he entered office.

Who says that ****** was a CONservative?

Religion? Greedy? Maybe in some cases but overall, over history, certainly recent history, religion certainly has given billions upon billions to the poor. Not to mention they have given their lives.

I have a couple interesting terms to throw your way.

Mega Churches

Prosperity Theology

Now...go research that horseshit and tell me if any of that shit has any
thing to do with traditional conservative values.

So, when will Obama start giving his millions away. Why does he need so many houses. He is rich beyond what any 100 people need. Why is Obama not giving his money to those who need it most? Hell, why are people paying Obama anyhow, most likely it is a payoff for the job he did while president? The Bribes and Payoffs come after the president leaves office. Clever.

Since when was that ****** ever claiming to be a conservative?

You are making his point. Obama is not conservative, yet he's made hundreds of millions of dollars off of...... not building products... not creating jobs.... not building the economy...... He's made hundreds of millions.... off of being a politicians.

You claim conservatives are greedy.... but then we look at left-wingers like Obama, who have produced ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... and they are elite filthy rich millionaires, literally... off the backs of the hard working tax payers.

Sounds greedy to me. Give it all to me, and I don't want to work for it. Sounds like the Obama motto.

Mega Churches

Prosperity Theology

Now...go research that horseshit and tell me if any of that shit has any
thing to do with traditional conservative values.

I have no idea what are you talking about. Mega Churches have nothing to do with this conversation. What does 'prosperity theology' have to do with anything?

Let's say that prosperity theology has nothing to do with conservatism.

Ok. So why did you bring that up? What does this have to do with anything?