Debt Ceiling: Worst-Case Scenario

[Ravi]

Please enlighten me as to what these more pressing matters are?

Enlighten me as to how much of the record breaking $223 billion monthly deficit spending--let me stop here because I am convinced liberals on this board don't know what a deficit is:

def·i·cit –noun
1.
the amount by which a sum of money falls short of the required amount.
2.
the amount by which expenditures or liabilities exceed income or assets.
3.
a lack or shortage; deficiency.

How much of $223 billion over the damn budget is more pressing than social security.

If you are so far up Obama's ass that you actually believe this there isn't any point in trying.

Money that we owe.

Do you not fully read my posts before you respond? I have said a few times that servicing the US Federal government's debt obligations takes 15% of its annual revenues. Is that incorrect? If it is please correct me.

Taking that into account you are incorrect in stating that of the roughly $200 billion monthly the federal government spends over budget would not cause the sky to fall if cut. Nor would it cause the suing of the federal government. Who by the way is going to be taking litigation against the federal government again?

Do you understand where this magical-money, that you seem to believe the government can simply conjure up it with no repercussions, comes from?

Maybe it is you that doesn't understand me.

The way I see it, if we fail to raise the debt limit, we must choose who we pay. And the choice is our creditors or the people who have an implied contract to receive SS.

Who would YOU pay?

 

[Google]

Once again I'd like to point out that Repugs couldn't give a damn about the government debt when there's a Repug in the White House, but as soon as there's a Dem in the White House they pitch fits.

To the Repugs this is all about politics and control - America be damned!

I've read your previous posts and I already know why you aren't going to be able to explain why not raising the debt limit would cause imminent default, because you dumb...or high I suspect both.

 

[Contumacious]

If Obama did as the article suggests, he'd be pilloried from pillar to post and run out of town. Ain't happening, IMHO the real worst case if the debt ceiling is not raised is the effect it would have on our economy and around the world. Even if the US Gov't continues to pay the interest on it's debt, the fact that we could not find a way to raise the ceiling could be a serious blow. Look at how many more people, public AND private, would lose their jobs. I would say a double dip recession or even a depression could occur, or at least a risk thereof.

He's already fired a shot across the bow trying to put all the blame on the House:

Taxes, Social Security fears cited in debt ceiling talks - CNN.com

He's going for the "scare old people" tactic that democrats use so well.

The only one who has the power to stop social security checks from going out is Obama. He can either send the old their checks or leave them hanging and give the money to finance the expanding federal bureaucracy.

But everyone knows that THE SOCIAL SECURITY TRUST FUND, shows how much each taxpayer has paid into his account and how much he/she is owed. And since the funds belong to the policy holders the feds wouldn't **** around with it, right?

.

 

[Google]

Money that we owe.

Do you not fully read my posts before you respond? I have said a few times that servicing the US Federal government's debt obligations takes 15% of its annual revenues. Is that incorrect? If it is please correct me.

Taking that into account you are incorrect in stating that of the roughly $200 billion monthly the federal government spends over budget would not cause the sky to fall if cut. Nor would it cause the suing of the federal government. Who by the way is going to be taking litigation against the federal government again?

Do you understand where this magical-money, that you seem to believe the government can simply conjure up it with no repercussions, comes from?

Maybe it is you that doesn't understand me.

The way I see it, if we fail to raise the debt limit, we must choose who we pay. And the choice is our creditors or the people who have an implied contract to receive SS.

Who would YOU pay?

Forget how you see it. It is what it is: cut deficit spending. Back in March this administration set a record for deficit spending in one month and it is continuing at $200 billion a month. Cut it!!!!

You didn't answer anything. Who is going to bring that litigation? Why wouldn't we be able to fund our debt and all other obligations in the damn budget.

 

[hortysir]

Once again I'd like to point out that Repugs couldn't give a damn about the government debt when there's a Repug in the White House, but as soon as there's a Dem in the White House they pitch fits.

To the Repugs this is all about politics and control - America be damned!

Pot?

Meet Kettle

 

[Ravi]

Do you not fully read my posts before you respond? I have said a few times that servicing the US Federal government's debt obligations takes 15% of its annual revenues. Is that incorrect? If it is please correct me.

Taking that into account you are incorrect in stating that of the roughly $200 billion monthly the federal government spends over budget would not cause the sky to fall if cut. Nor would it cause the suing of the federal government. Who by the way is going to be taking litigation against the federal government again?

Do you understand where this magical-money, that you seem to believe the government can simply conjure up it with no repercussions, comes from?

Maybe it is you that doesn't understand me.

The way I see it, if we fail to raise the debt limit, we must choose who we pay. And the choice is our creditors or the people who have an implied contract to receive SS.

Who would YOU pay?

Forget how you see it. It is what it is: cut deficit spending. Back in March this administration set a record for deficit spending in one month and it is continuing at $200 billion a month. Cut it!!!!

You didn't answer anything. Who is going to bring that litigation? Why wouldn't we be able to fund our debt and all other obligations in the damn budget.

I didn't answer anything, I asked a question, fuckwad. And you can't answer it.

Dismissed.

 

[mudwhistle]

If Obama did as the article suggests, he'd be pilloried from pillar to post and run out of town. Ain't happening, IMHO the real worst case if the debt ceiling is not raised is the effect it would have on our economy and around the world. Even if the US Gov't continues to pay the interest on it's debt, the fact that we could not find a way to raise the ceiling could be a serious blow. Look at how many more people, public AND private, would lose their jobs. I would say a double dip recession or even a depression could occur, or at least a risk thereof.

He's already fired a shot across the bow trying to put all the blame on the House:

Taxes, Social Security fears cited in debt ceiling talks - CNN.com

He's going for the "scare old people" tactic that democrats use so well.

The only one who has the power to stop social security checks from going out is Obama. He can either send the old their checks or leave them hanging and give the money to finance the expanding federal bureaucracy.

President Obama said yesterday, "I cannot guarantee that [Social Security] checks go out on August 3rd, if we haven't resolved this [debt ceiling] issue. Because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it."

We've been told by Democrats and liberal economists that the Social Security Trust Fund exists.

The official Social Security Administration website claims, "By law, income to the trust funds must be invested, on a daily basis, in securities guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the Federal government," and, "Far from being 'worthless IOUs,' the investments held by the trust funds are backed by the full faith and credit of the U. S. Government."

Let's ignore, for the moment, the president's many options, such as cutting payments to his cronies and government bureaucrats. Instead of starving grandma, why doesn't President Obama just tap into the Social Security Trust Fund like he recently tapped into the oil reserves?

You mean to tell me, the Social Security Trust Fund doesn't really exist? I'm shocked!
Blog: Tap into the Social Security Trust Fund as if it were the federal oil reserve

Guess they don't really have a SS trust fund anymore according to Obama.

 

[Google]

Maybe it is you that doesn't understand me.

The way I see it, if we fail to raise the debt limit, we must choose who we pay. And the choice is our creditors or the people who have an implied contract to receive SS.

Who would YOU pay?

Forget how you see it. It is what it is: cut deficit spending. Back in March this administration set a record for deficit spending in one month and it is continuing at $200 billion a month. Cut it!!!!

You didn't answer anything. Who is going to bring that litigation? Why wouldn't we be able to fund our debt and all other obligations in the damn budget.

I didn't answer anything, I asked a question, fuckwad. And you can't answer it.

Dismissed.

I have posted a lot more than you explaining my argument. Your three line answers aren't insightful or proving anything.

Dismissed?

 

[Toro]

Who are these guys you know that lend the US government crazy? How many bonds are they buying? And when they mature do they normally roll them over? What happens when they decide its not safe, because of inflation and unrestrained spending--the Democrats are out there saying we need another stimulus act and you think the budget will be addressed promptly after raising the debt limit--what happens when significant numbers do not roll them over and instead demand their money? Any idea?

What do those fat cats you hang out with think?

They think we have to get our deficit under control. I think we have to get our deficit under control. That is for certain.

But they - and "they" are mainly Republicans - and I - and I am an independent - think that this kind of brinkmanship is nuts. And that the people who are promoting this - like yourself - have no idea of the risks you are dealing with.

I don't think we're going to default, even if there is no deal. I think the US government will do anything it can to meet its interest payments. But there is little upside if there are no repercussions while the downside could be massive. So I've begun to protect myself.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Listen Wall Street is already in the Obama camp. You and Gordon Geko can vote for whomever you'd like.

Have you noticed that I have not tried to invoke the thoughts or feelings of supposed people to try and prove a point?

You have yet to explain to me why default is an unavoidable consequence to not raising the debt limit.

First, if you believe that Wall St. is now or ever has been pro-democrat, you know absolutely nothing about Wall St. Wall St. is as Republican as Republican gets.

Second, if you have to ask why not raising the debt ceiling will cause a default, then you know nothing about what the debt celing is and/or what a default is.

Why don't you lay off of politics and go watch Oprah or American idol or something. They seem to be more on your level.

To service the annual debt obligations it would require 15% of annual revenues.

So your saying that the government is running an 85% surplus?



You seriously don't know what your talking about - and if your not extremely intoxicated then I seriously feel VERY sorry for you.

 

[Toro]

Listen Wall Street is already in the Obama camp. You and Gordon Geko can vote for whomever you'd like.

Have you noticed that I have not tried to invoke the thoughts or feelings of supposed people to try and prove a point?

You have yet to explain to me why default is an unavoidable consequence to not raising the debt limit.

First, if you believe that Wall St. is now or ever has been pro-democrat, you know absolutely nothing about Wall St. Wall St. is as Republican as Republican gets.

Second, if you have to ask why not raising the debt ceiling will cause a default, then you know nothing about what the debt celing is and/or what a default is.

Why don't you lay off of politics and go watch Oprah or American idol or something. They seem to be more on your level.

I suppose it doesn't surprise me you don't know how close the Obama administration is with Wall Street. Who else but Goldman Sacs has managed to benefit and flourish in these bleak economic times, like fungus on shit.

You have this idea that has been propagated through popular media that it is the Republicans that pal around with Gordon Geko--let's use him for a representation of Goldman Sacs types.

"Goldman Sachs partner Gary Gensler is Obama’s Commodity Futures Trading Commission head. He was confirmed despite heated congressional grilling over his role, as Reuters described it, “as a high-level Treasury official in a 2000 law that exempted the $58 trillion credit default swap market from oversight. The financial instruments have been blamed for amplifying global financial turmoil.” Gensler said he was sorry — hey, it worked for tax cheat Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner — and was quickly installed to guard the henhouse."

"oldman Sachs kept White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel on a $3,000 monthly retainer while he worked as Clinton’s chief fundraiser, as first reported by Washington Examiner columnist Tim Carney. The financial titans threw in another $50,000 to become the Clinton primary campaign’s top funder. Emanuel received nearly $80,000 in cash from Goldman Sachs during his four terms in Congress — investments that have reaped untold rewards, as Emanuel assumed a leading role championing the trillion-dollar TARP banking bailout law."

"Former Goldman Sachs lobbyist Mark Patterson serves under Geithner as his top deputy and overseer of TARP bailout — $10 billion of which went to Goldman Sachs. Left-leaning government watchdog Melanie Sloan of the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington responded: “It makes it appear that they are saying one thing and doing another.” Paul Blumenthal of the Sunlight Foundation noted that, while at Goldman Sachs, Patterson lobbied against executive pay limits that Obama had crusaded for as senator (before, that is, his administration carved out exemptions for AIG). While Patterson agreed to recuse himself on any Goldman Sachs-related issues or related policy concerns, Blumenthal wrote, it “still creates a serious conflict for Geithner, as Treasury is being partly managed by a former Goldman lobbyist. Geithner is also placed in a tough position considering that his chief of staff is limited in the areas in which he can work (supposedly).”

" Obama’s close hometown crony, campaign finance chief and senior adviser Penny Pritzker was head of Superior Bank of Chicago, a subprime specialist that went bust in 2001, leaving more than 1,400 people stripped of their savings after bank officials falsified profit reports. Pritzker’s lawyer at O’Melveny and Myers, Tom Donilon, is now Obama’s deputy national security adviser. He earned just shy of $4 million representing her and other high-profile meltdown clients including Goldman Sachs."

Wall Street is not in Obama's camp.

 

[Google]

Who are these guys you know that lend the US government crazy? How many bonds are they buying? And when they mature do they normally roll them over? What happens when they decide its not safe, because of inflation and unrestrained spending--the Democrats are out there saying we need another stimulus act and you think the budget will be addressed promptly after raising the debt limit--what happens when significant numbers do not roll them over and instead demand their money? Any idea?

What do those fat cats you hang out with think?

They think we have to get our deficit under control. I think we have to get our deficit under control. That is for certain.

But they - and "they" are mainly Republicans - and I - and I am an independent - think that this kind of brinkmanship is nuts. And that the people who are promoting this - like yourself - have no idea of the risks you are dealing with.

I don't think we're going to default, even if there is no deal. I think the US government will do anything it can to meet its interest payments. But there is little upside if there are no repercussions while the downside could be massive. So I've begun to protect myself.

Is that certain? On one hand you believe the deficit needs to get under control and on the other hand you believe we need to increase the deficit by another $2 trillion dollars on the promise that the government will address the problem.

Well you can't have it both ways. Which is more detrimental to the future of my child: the ruinous effects of inflation and public sector growth or not letting the government increase the debt to $16,000,000,000,000?

Oh, and you say that we won't default!! You are the first of the 'sky will fall' crowd to admit that the math proves the government won't default. So when Obama is saying this it is a lie.

And how about we just forget the "they" and "I" stuff and let our points stand for themselves.

 

[Hum Dinger]

He's already fired a shot across the bow trying to put all the blame on the House:

Taxes, Social Security fears cited in debt ceiling talks - CNN.com

He's going for the "scare old people" tactic that democrats use so well.

The only one who has the power to stop social security checks from going out is Obama. He can either send the old their checks or leave them hanging and give the money to finance the expanding federal bureaucracy.

President Obama said yesterday, "I cannot guarantee that [Social Security] checks go out on August 3rd, if we haven't resolved this [debt ceiling] issue. Because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it."

We've been told by Democrats and liberal economists that the Social Security Trust Fund exists.

The official Social Security Administration website claims, "By law, income to the trust funds must be invested, on a daily basis, in securities guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the Federal government," and, "Far from being 'worthless IOUs,' the investments held by the trust funds are backed by the full faith and credit of the U. S. Government."

Let's ignore, for the moment, the president's many options, such as cutting payments to his cronies and government bureaucrats. Instead of starving grandma, why doesn't President Obama just tap into the Social Security Trust Fund like he recently tapped into the oil reserves?

You mean to tell me, the Social Security Trust Fund doesn't really exist? I'm shocked!
Blog: Tap into the Social Security Trust Fund as if it were the federal oil reserve

Guess they don't really have a SS trust fund anymore according to Obama.

Do you folks pay attention at all to what your reading or writing:

"the investments held by the trust funds are backed by the full faith and credit of the U. S. Government."

Do you know what that statement means?

No?

If the debt ceiling is not raised, THE U.S. GOVERMENT HAS NO CREDIT.

Sooo...in accordance with that statement, the SS fund goes KAPUT!

 

[Google]

First, if you believe that Wall St. is now or ever has been pro-democrat, you know absolutely nothing about Wall St. Wall St. is as Republican as Republican gets.

Second, if you have to ask why not raising the debt ceiling will cause a default, then you know nothing about what the debt celing is and/or what a default is.

Why don't you lay off of politics and go watch Oprah or American idol or something. They seem to be more on your level.

I suppose it doesn't surprise me you don't know how close the Obama administration is with Wall Street. Who else but Goldman Sacs has managed to benefit and flourish in these bleak economic times, like fungus on shit.

You have this idea that has been propagated through popular media that it is the Republicans that pal around with Gordon Geko--let's use him for a representation of Goldman Sacs types.

"Goldman Sachs partner Gary Gensler is Obama’s Commodity Futures Trading Commission head. He was confirmed despite heated congressional grilling over his role, as Reuters described it, “as a high-level Treasury official in a 2000 law that exempted the $58 trillion credit default swap market from oversight. The financial instruments have been blamed for amplifying global financial turmoil.” Gensler said he was sorry — hey, it worked for tax cheat Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner — and was quickly installed to guard the henhouse."

"oldman Sachs kept White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel on a $3,000 monthly retainer while he worked as Clinton’s chief fundraiser, as first reported by Washington Examiner columnist Tim Carney. The financial titans threw in another $50,000 to become the Clinton primary campaign’s top funder. Emanuel received nearly $80,000 in cash from Goldman Sachs during his four terms in Congress — investments that have reaped untold rewards, as Emanuel assumed a leading role championing the trillion-dollar TARP banking bailout law."

"Former Goldman Sachs lobbyist Mark Patterson serves under Geithner as his top deputy and overseer of TARP bailout — $10 billion of which went to Goldman Sachs. Left-leaning government watchdog Melanie Sloan of the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington responded: “It makes it appear that they are saying one thing and doing another.” Paul Blumenthal of the Sunlight Foundation noted that, while at Goldman Sachs, Patterson lobbied against executive pay limits that Obama had crusaded for as senator (before, that is, his administration carved out exemptions for AIG). While Patterson agreed to recuse himself on any Goldman Sachs-related issues or related policy concerns, Blumenthal wrote, it “still creates a serious conflict for Geithner, as Treasury is being partly managed by a former Goldman lobbyist. Geithner is also placed in a tough position considering that his chief of staff is limited in the areas in which he can work (supposedly).”

" Obama’s close hometown crony, campaign finance chief and senior adviser Penny Pritzker was head of Superior Bank of Chicago, a subprime specialist that went bust in 2001, leaving more than 1,400 people stripped of their savings after bank officials falsified profit reports. Pritzker’s lawyer at O’Melveny and Myers, Tom Donilon, is now Obama’s deputy national security adviser. He earned just shy of $4 million representing her and other high-profile meltdown clients including Goldman Sachs."

Wall Street is not in Obama's camp.

Okay prove me wrong. I'll show you my facts, you show me yours.

The 2008 Wall Street donations for Obama.

Top Contributors to Barack Obama | OpenSecrets

Wall Street puts its money behind Obama | Reuters

Obama Top Fundraiser on Wall Street

Obama is going to have the first ever billion dollar presidential campaign, and you think Wall Street isn't in Obama's camp!?!?

Whatever. If you're going to vote for Romney go ahead, I believe you are a Democrat personally.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Oh yeah!

Just one more point before I hit the sack....

Do ya all remember when Al Gore was running for President and said that he wanted to put the Social Security fund in a "Lock box"?

Turns out that that wasn't such a bad idea after all, now was it?

But don't woory, the SS fund isn't in any danger...as long as they raise the F&^$'in debt ceiling!

 

[Google]

The only one who has the power to stop social security checks from going out is Obama. He can either send the old their checks or leave them hanging and give the money to finance the expanding federal bureaucracy.

President Obama said yesterday, "I cannot guarantee that [Social Security] checks go out on August 3rd, if we haven't resolved this [debt ceiling] issue. Because there may simply not be the money in the coffers to do it."

We've been told by Democrats and liberal economists that the Social Security Trust Fund exists.

The official Social Security Administration website claims, "By law, income to the trust funds must be invested, on a daily basis, in securities guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the Federal government," and, "Far from being 'worthless IOUs,' the investments held by the trust funds are backed by the full faith and credit of the U. S. Government."

Let's ignore, for the moment, the president's many options, such as cutting payments to his cronies and government bureaucrats. Instead of starving grandma, why doesn't President Obama just tap into the Social Security Trust Fund like he recently tapped into the oil reserves?

You mean to tell me, the Social Security Trust Fund doesn't really exist? I'm shocked!
Blog: Tap into the Social Security Trust Fund as if it were the federal oil reserve

Guess they don't really have a SS trust fund anymore according to Obama.

Do you folks pay attention at all to what your reading or writing:

"the investments held by the trust funds are backed by the full faith and credit of the U. S. Government."

Do you know what that statement means?

No?

If the debt ceiling is not raised, THE U.S. GOVERMENT HAS NO CREDIT.

Sooo...in accordance with that statement, the SS fund goes KAPUT!

Pay attention here. If the debt ceiling is not raised, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAS NO MORE CREDIT. Social Security and the debt can both be funded.

You haven't shown any evidence of your claim that a default would be unavoidable if the debt limit isn't increased. 15% of annual revenue, that is all to service the debt. $200 billion a month over budget, and you believe that $200 billion is all social security and such.

CUT IT OR SHUT IT!!!!! That is what 63% of Americans believe about the debt limit debate, you are in the 11% minority of die-hard patrician leftists who will die by what this administration tells them to think.

 

[Google]

First, if you believe that Wall St. is now or ever has been pro-democrat, you know absolutely nothing about Wall St. Wall St. is as Republican as Republican gets.

Second, if you have to ask why not raising the debt ceiling will cause a default, then you know nothing about what the debt celing is and/or what a default is.

Why don't you lay off of politics and go watch Oprah or American idol or something. They seem to be more on your level.

To service the annual debt obligations it would require 15% of annual revenues.

So your saying that the government is running an 85% surplus?



You seriously don't know what your talking about - and if your not extremely intoxicated then I seriously feel VERY sorry for you.

Is that all you have is insults? Prove me wrong, just because you say something doesn't make it true.

What is the annual US government revenue? Answer that one question and I'll break it all down for you, but I want you to answer that question first. I will show you the light, but I can't force you.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

First, if you believe that Wall St. is now or ever has been pro-democrat, you know absolutely nothing about Wall St. Wall St. is as Republican as Republican gets.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong?

Obama Top Fundraiser on Wall Street

Democrats are darlings of Wall St. - Los Angeles Times

Democrats decry Wall Street excesses but take lots of Goldman Sachs money -- a credibility problem? - latimes.com

Democratic Party, Helped by Wall Street, Outraises Republicans - Bloomberg

Second, if you have to ask why not raising the debt ceiling will cause a default, then you know nothing about what the debt celing is and/or what a default is.

Pot meet kettle.

Why don't you lay off of politics and go watch Oprah or American idol or something. They seem to be more on your level.

You really ought to take your own advice. You've been getting ***** slapped all day long here.

 

[Big Fitz]

If Obama does what the fiscal conservatives are wanting, he will change track from one of the worst presidents in history to one of the better ones. He could take credit for saving this nation from fiscal disaster, much like Clinton took credit for the fiscal responsibility of the Gingrich House.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Just on the news, Moody's has put the US triple A bond rating under review.

I'm sick of this argument that not raising the debt limit is doing something to threaten the country's credit rating.

Think about it: Greece's debt, spread evenly to ever family, would be a burden of $40,000. Here in America it would be $45,000, and the left and Obama want us to believe that not increasing that number to $50,000 would hurt the country's credit yeah right. 63% of Americans, over 50% on all polls, the plurality of America is against this president.

The country gets this mythical, magical money from T-bill holders and there aren't that many out there anymore.

The yield on the Greek 2 year bond is 31%.