"Death Panel"- "Alive and Well"

[ogibillm]

The reason it's like this is BECAUSE of Medicare, i.e., government insurance.

And it will get worse. Much, much worse.

I'm a little floored that the attitude has changed from "THERE ARE NO DEATH PANELS YOU STUPID RETARDS" to "ahem...there have always been death panels, so they're okay!"

the truth is there are no 'death panels' as portrayed by health care reform detractors. there is no tribunal one has to go before to receive care.

however, there is currently rationing. those with means have access to the health care they want, those without do not.

and all those that believe they're safe because of their insurance get to look forward to the day when they become too expensive and their insurer finds a way to kick them off the roles or deny coverage.

 

[AllieBaba]

I've always believed insurance companies are the root of all evil.

Always.

 

[AllieBaba]

The reason it's like this is BECAUSE of Medicare, i.e., government insurance.

And it will get worse. Much, much worse.

I'm a little floored that the attitude has changed from "THERE ARE NO DEATH PANELS YOU STUPID RETARDS" to "ahem...there have always been death panels, so they're okay!"

the truth is there are no 'death panels' as portrayed by health care reform detractors. there is no tribunal one has to go before to receive care.

however, there is currently rationing. those with means have access to the health care they want, those without do not.

and all those that believe they're safe because of their insurance get to look forward to the day when they become too expensive and their insurer finds a way to kick them off the roles or deny coverage.

Yeah, well, nobody ever said they were tribunals everyone went before.

I know what the death panels are. It's dishonest of the supporters of this travesty to pretend that when we refer to death panels we're referring to anything other than what is defined in the plan.

And Medicare denies coverage ALL THE TIME. My clients come in all the time, on Medicare, and still paying hundreds of dollars a month for medical and medicine.

And I have a client who isn't on Medicare but is on OHP and has an asthmatic kid. OHP won't pay for the inhaler that works for him. She's forced to use a less effective inhaler for him, which means he's always on a nebulizer.

 

[PoliticalChic]

no, you really can't change companies or move states.

once an insurance company begins denying your claims you can be damn sure another isn't going to welcome you with open arms and start approving them.

"...you can be damn sure another isn't going to ...start approving them."


Did you find this in that black 'crystal ball' we used as kids?

i'd like to enhance your vocabulary. there's a nice little phrase insurance companies like to use, you may have heard of it before. it's "pre-existing condition." Look into it.

Now I'm convinced that you use the 'eight-ball' for your insight, as the post clearly means 'ask again later.'

 

[PoliticalChic]

The reason it's like this is BECAUSE of Medicare, i.e., government insurance.

And it will get worse. Much, much worse.

I'm a little floored that the attitude has changed from "THERE ARE NO DEATH PANELS YOU STUPID RETARDS" to "ahem...there have always been death panels, so they're okay!"

Excellent.

You nailed it.

 

[konradv]

The reason it's like this is BECAUSE of Medicare, i.e., government insurance.

And it will get worse. Much, much worse.

I'm a little floored that the attitude has changed from "THERE ARE NO DEATH PANELS YOU STUPID RETARDS" to "ahem...there have always been death panels, so they're okay!"

the truth is there are no 'death panels' as portrayed by health care reform detractors. there is no tribunal one has to go before to receive care.

however, there is currently rationing. those with means have access to the health care they want, those without do not.

and all those that believe they're safe because of their insurance get to look forward to the day when they become too expensive and their insurer finds a way to kick them off the roles or deny coverage.

Yeah, well, nobody ever said they were tribunals everyone went before.

I know what the death panels are. It's dishonest of the supporters of this travesty to pretend that when we refer to death panels we're referring to anything other than what is defined in the plan.

And Medicare denies coverage ALL THE TIME. My clients come in all the time, on Medicare, and still paying hundreds of dollars a month for medical and medicine.

And I have a client who isn't on Medicare but is on OHP and has an asthmatic kid. OHP won't pay for the inhaler that works for him. She's forced to use a less effective inhaler for him, which means he's always on a nebulizer.

It's dishonest of you and others to refer to death panels in the first place.

 

[Gadawg73]

I've always believed insurance companies are the root of all evil.

Always.

Insurance companies have been my clients in my detective business for 30 years. More times than not it is the insured that are the evil, not the insurance company.
But anyone that believes they are Knights in Shining Armor all the time are naive and gullible as evidenced by the above sarcasm.

 

[ogibillm]

"...you can be damn sure another isn't going to ...start approving them."


Did you find this in that black 'crystal ball' we used as kids?

i'd like to enhance your vocabulary. there's a nice little phrase insurance companies like to use, you may have heard of it before. it's "pre-existing condition." Look into it.

Now I'm convinced that you use the 'eight-ball' for your insight, as the post clearly means 'ask again later.'

no, it means once your sick and your insurer discovers a way to deny coverage no other health insurer will accept you and start covering your pre-existing condition. just doesn't happen.

if you're going to discuss health care you should at least know that.

 

[AllieBaba]

I've always believed insurance companies are the root of all evil.

Always.

Insurance companies have been my clients in my detective business for 30 years. More times than not it is the insured that are the evil, not the insurance company.
But anyone that believes they are Knights in Shining Armor all the time are naive and gullible as evidenced by the above sarcasm.

I certainly don't believe that. So you were saying?

 

[PoliticalChic]

i'd like to enhance your vocabulary. there's a nice little phrase insurance companies like to use, you may have heard of it before. it's "pre-existing condition." Look into it.

Now I'm convinced that you use the 'eight-ball' for your insight, as the post clearly means 'ask again later.'

no, it means once your sick and your insurer discovers a way to deny coverage no other health insurer will accept you and start covering your pre-existing condition. just doesn't happen.

if you're going to discuss health care you should at least know that.

"...just doesn't happen."

The words from another know-it-all blow hard.

1. Charitable organization paid for the healthcare in the OP.

2. You might be interested in the following:
Question: Do the Amish go for health care services? How do they deal with technological advances of health care? Do the Amish allow the Doctors to go all out when they are ill or do they place restrictions on medical care provided? Do they believe in immunizations?

Answer: The Amish use local doctors, dentists, eye doctors, etc., and will go to specialists and hospitals as needed. They make use of advances in health care that are used in hospitals, etc. They generally try home remedies for ailments first before going to a doctor or the hospital. They also are inclined to go to Mexico for major treatments because of the cost of medications. [Editor's note: The Amish do not participate in medical or insurance plans and instead pay for all medical costs themselves.] The children do get immunizations (although not all may do so just as not all Englishers may do so either). Answer coordinated by THE BUDGET.
Amish Life FAQ's

The community helps pay excessive costs, as has always been the traditon in America.
They arrange with local hospitals to accept far lower payments for the group and pay directly in cash.

Then, there are folks like you who throw up your hands and accept a view that only government has the answer.

 

[Old Rocks]

Humana and other HMO's and insurance companies have been rationing health care for decades.

Glad to see that you understand that this is the rationing of healthcare.

What you don't understand is that one or several private companies rationing same, as one can change companies or move to a different state,is
hardly the same as the entire nation on that 'page.'

The OP illustrates exactly that.

Sure, PC, sure. Except that there are about 52 million people that cannot afford any kind of medical insurance in this nation at present.

 

[Old Rocks]

Now I'm convinced that you use the 'eight-ball' for your insight, as the post clearly means 'ask again later.'

no, it means once your sick and your insurer discovers a way to deny coverage no other health insurer will accept you and start covering your pre-existing condition. just doesn't happen.

if you're going to discuss health care you should at least know that.

"...just doesn't happen."

The words from another know-it-all blow hard.

1. Charitable organization paid for the healthcare in the OP.

2. You might be interested in the following:
Question: Do the Amish go for health care services? How do they deal with technological advances of health care? Do the Amish allow the Doctors to go all out when they are ill or do they place restrictions on medical care provided? Do they believe in immunizations?

Answer: The Amish use local doctors, dentists, eye doctors, etc., and will go to specialists and hospitals as needed. They make use of advances in health care that are used in hospitals, etc. They generally try home remedies for ailments first before going to a doctor or the hospital. They also are inclined to go to Mexico for major treatments because of the cost of medications. [Editor's note: The Amish do not participate in medical or insurance plans and instead pay for all medical costs themselves.] The children do get immunizations (although not all may do so just as not all Englishers may do so either). Answer coordinated by THE BUDGET.
Amish Life FAQ's

The community helps pay excessive costs, as has always been the traditon in America.
They arrange with local hospitals to accept far lower payments for the group and pay directly in cash.

Then, there are folks like you who throw up your hands and accept a view that only government has the answer.

OK, I will go with that. Let's just make it the whole community, and cover everybody with a universal single payer program. And we can all contribute to it at a set rate. See how simple it is to copy a good Amish idea.

 

[Wiseacre]

no, it means once your sick and your insurer discovers a way to deny coverage no other health insurer will accept you and start covering your pre-existing condition. just doesn't happen.

if you're going to discuss health care you should at least know that.

"...just doesn't happen."

The words from another know-it-all blow hard.

1. Charitable organization paid for the healthcare in the OP.

2. You might be interested in the following:
Question: Do the Amish go for health care services? How do they deal with technological advances of health care? Do the Amish allow the Doctors to go all out when they are ill or do they place restrictions on medical care provided? Do they believe in immunizations?

Answer: The Amish use local doctors, dentists, eye doctors, etc., and will go to specialists and hospitals as needed. They make use of advances in health care that are used in hospitals, etc. They generally try home remedies for ailments first before going to a doctor or the hospital. They also are inclined to go to Mexico for major treatments because of the cost of medications. [Editor's note: The Amish do not participate in medical or insurance plans and instead pay for all medical costs themselves.] The children do get immunizations (although not all may do so just as not all Englishers may do so either). Answer coordinated by THE BUDGET.
Amish Life FAQ's

The community helps pay excessive costs, as has always been the traditon in America.
They arrange with local hospitals to accept far lower payments for the group and pay directly in cash.

Then, there are folks like you who throw up your hands and accept a view that only government has the answer.

OK, I will go with that. Let's just make it the whole community, and cover everybody with a universal single payer program. And we can all contribute to it at a set rate. See how simple it is to copy a good Amish idea.

I think you missed the part where they pay for all medical costs themselves. The gov't is not involved.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Humana and other HMO's and insurance companies have been rationing health care for decades.

Glad to see that you understand that this is the rationing of healthcare.

What you don't understand is that one or several private companies rationing same, as one can change companies or move to a different state,is
hardly the same as the entire nation on that 'page.'

The OP illustrates exactly that.

Sure, PC, sure. Except that there are about 52 million people that cannot afford any kind of medical insurance in this nation at present.

Absolutely untrue,

I challenge you to support that fabrication.

 

[PoliticalChic]

no, it means once your sick and your insurer discovers a way to deny coverage no other health insurer will accept you and start covering your pre-existing condition. just doesn't happen.

if you're going to discuss health care you should at least know that.

"...just doesn't happen."

The words from another know-it-all blow hard.

1. Charitable organization paid for the healthcare in the OP.

2. You might be interested in the following:
Question: Do the Amish go for health care services? How do they deal with technological advances of health care? Do the Amish allow the Doctors to go all out when they are ill or do they place restrictions on medical care provided? Do they believe in immunizations?

Answer: The Amish use local doctors, dentists, eye doctors, etc., and will go to specialists and hospitals as needed. They make use of advances in health care that are used in hospitals, etc. They generally try home remedies for ailments first before going to a doctor or the hospital. They also are inclined to go to Mexico for major treatments because of the cost of medications. [Editor's note: The Amish do not participate in medical or insurance plans and instead pay for all medical costs themselves.] The children do get immunizations (although not all may do so just as not all Englishers may do so either). Answer coordinated by THE BUDGET.
Amish Life FAQ's

The community helps pay excessive costs, as has always been the traditon in America.
They arrange with local hospitals to accept far lower payments for the group and pay directly in cash.

Then, there are folks like you who throw up your hands and accept a view that only government has the answer.

OK, I will go with that. Let's just make it the whole community, and cover everybody with a universal single payer program. And we can all contribute to it at a set rate. See how simple it is to copy a good Amish idea.

Are you pretending that you cannot see the difference between voluntary help to those who need same, and the coercion and confiscatory policy of liberals?

1. Obamacare is based on a statist, totalitarian view of how an economy should be run. One should consider how successful other such command-and-control systems have worked out.

a. The PPACA imposes the will of unelected bureaucrats, adding some 159 agencies, boards, commissions.

b. The secretary of HHS has unmitigated and heretofore unforeseen power, such as being totally in charge of state-based exchanges. PPACA, Public Law 111-148, section 1321.

2.It is designed to fulfill the needs of a central authority over the wishes of the individual, or the supposedly co-equal state authorities. . PPACA, Public Law 111-148, section 1321

3. Obamacare requires unwarranted intrusions into the privacy of citizens by requiring said citizens to queue up for federal insurance, and then be vetted as to their and their families financial matters.

4. In addition, analysis of the infliction will raise costs, decrease quality, and change the nature of American federalism.
I'd be happy to document any aspect of above that you dispute.

 

[Greenbeard]

Yeah, well, nobody ever said they were tribunals everyone went before.

The concept as originally articulated was:

The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.​

Now it's apparently become "having prices." The former free marketers have, bizarrely, morphed into communists.

 

[Gadawg73]

Those that have their health insurance paid for by someone else have no clue as to the free market pressures that 3rd party paid group health care has on the free market.
The problem is that group health care insurance has risen 15% a year in the NON MEDICARE market, those under age 65, for the last 20 years.
Now imagine another industry where an employer pays a 3rd party to administer payment of your expenses such as your car or homeowners insurance.
How would it work if your car insurance, paid for by your employer and not you, was responsible for paying for your tires, your oil changes, brake jobs and all of your diagnostics on your vehicle? What fundementals of the market place would there be? Would your insurance company force you to buy the cheapest tires or would they allow you to buy the most expensive?
In the current 3rd party, the insurance companies, group healthcare insurance model we now have there are LITTLE IF ANY competitive free market fundementals in place for competition amongst ANY health care industries. They set their own prices many times.
And how about if employers paid for everyone's homeowners insurance? How would that work if your homeowners insurance was responsible for painting your home, new carpet and new HVAC and all services on plumbing, etc.? What free market fundeamentals would be in place, if any, in that scenario? Would your insurance company mandate the cheapest carpet, the cheapest anything when your claims are made?
Those of us that operate small businesses and pay over 3K a month to help our employees fund their own health care know full well how the free market system works and operates. We pay over a hundred thousand dollars a year some years in income taxes. Only a moron would not know that the current disaster we know have as "health care" in this country run as a group health care insurance model where the insurance company, not the consumer, is paying the bills and making the rules has run many large corporations overseas. Why? Their governments subsidize the employees health care and/or provide it. Not saying I favor that as I favor a totally free from group health care system where each American has their own independent coverage and the insurance companies are answereable TO THEM and not the other way around.
The current system is unsustainable. Investment capital is being sent overseas. I can buy into the Mexican system for $365 a year. Our disease care system is the finest in the world by far. Why shouldn't it be? We fund it with 60% of all health care dollars spent in the US for 5% of the population.
If I am healthy,as I am, there are 35 other countries, most of them with government health care, that have healthier populations and have the same level of HEALTH CARE or better as we do.
That condo in Puerto Morales is about 200K, half what it was 3 years ago. And one wonders why Americans are leaving by the thousands.

 

[Trajan]

Humana and other HMO's and insurance companies have been rationing health care for decades.

and so has the gov. and so it shall, you're point being_______________

 

[Sallow]

Hey PC..what's your take on Jan Brewer..the real live death panel chick.

2 people dead..and counting.

 

[editec]

The reason it's like this is BECAUSE of Medicare, i.e., government insurance.

And it will get worse. Much, much worse.

I'm a little floored that the attitude has changed from "THERE ARE NO DEATH PANELS YOU STUPID RETARDS" to "ahem...there have always been death panels, so they're okay!"

Yeah and there always will be something like DEATH Panels, too.

Why?

Because at some point in the treatment process it becomes apparent that we could spend the GNP keeping a dying person alive, but we cannot afford to devote that much resource to all of us, can we?.

Now we can do this terrible task by allowing professionals to triage the patients based on their long term chances of surviving IF they get treatment, or we can, as the private insurance companies do it, just DENY claims.

But the effect is the same...some people are going to die sooner rather than later.

Basically death panels and market forces are a distinction without a difference when it comes to deciding that some of us aren't going to get any more treatment.

Get it?