Death of the Republic, the Michael Flynn chapter.

Toddsterpatriot

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Hillary's server could have been (probably was) hacked, divulging that classified info.
The state department's servers also could have been hacked. In fact, they were.


Why worry about four year old emails when you can get into what the State Department is working on RIGHT NOW.

Or you can just get a stooge in the White House who says nothing while you put out bounties on American Troops.
The state department's servers also could have been hacked.

Could be. But that wouldn't be Hillary's fault, would it?

Why worry about four year old emails

Exactly. Her criminal failures should just be forgotten.
 

CrusaderFrank

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I have written my opinion before. It is simple. The Federal Agents, and DOJ were caught violating the Brady Rule, and misleading the Court on the evidence. These violations are very common. I mentioned at the time that it was routine even. However, that routine violation, does not make it right.

The DOJ was caught literally red handed. It tainted the case, and made prosecution risky, especially with the probability that Flynn would be found Not Guilty. There are a number of precedents to this type of action. The Judge may order the Defendant released dismissing all charges. The judge may suppress the evidence, favorable to the Prosecution.

An example. Let’s say there was a Bank Robbery. The Bank Cameras did not catch the face of the robber, nor the license of the car driven away. However a woman’s street camera did. The woman is out of town, and instead of getting the video of the street camera via a Subpoena, the Police hacked the camera and got the information. This would be illegal. The Police use it to find the Robber. During the preliminary hearings this information is gotten out.

Now, there is no direct evidence obtained legally to tie the suspect to the crime. The Judge suppresses that evidence, and all the Police have left is that the guy had money when they searched, but the search was a result of the illegally obtained information. So that evidence is suppressed. The Prosecutor moves to dismiss the charges. He has no choice. He has no evidence to take to the Jury.

That is not exactly what happened in the Flynn Case. The warrants were gotten illegally, and the Defense was denied exculpatory information. That is a violation of what is known as the Brady Rule. The Supreme Court ruled that the Defense is entitled to all information pertaining to the case. Even if the Prosecutor does not intend to use it. If requested, the Prosecutor must also hand over the history of the agents involved, have they ever been caught providing false or misleading testimony.

So the way it normally plays out is that the Prosecutor when caught, just folds his cards, and walks away from the table. Normally these violations are routine, and they are handled routinely.

However, this time, it is different. Now, the routine violations are treated as though they don’t really matter. They happen all the time. So why should Flynn get a pass because of a routine matter, no different than speed limits that nobody obeys.

To me, the Outrage is the fact that such violations are routine.

Judge Sullivan asked a retired Judge to examine this, sort of a Judicial review of a Judicial act. All informal, and with no history of being done before. But here is the rub. A extraordinary act to decide if the routine violation of the Brady Law and misleading statements of the FBI were sufficient to drop the charges. This review determined that the violations were no big deal, the Judge should reject the motion to dismiss, and hold Flynn accountable for his earlier plea bargain deal. He lied during his plea bargain deal, so Perjury for him.


I have argued for a very long time that Civil Rights matter. The rights in the Constitution should be sacrosanct. They should be viewed one and all as sacred. They are written in plain English, thou shall not. Thou shall not do this, or that.

Now, it is Thou Shall Not, unless you don’t like this guy, or he is a political annoyance.

It is the Brady Rule that got Cliven Bundy off. You see, the Government is expected to follow the rules, and tell the truth. When they do not do that, the case against the accused goes away.

Arguing that allowing agents to provide false and misleading information and testimony to the Court is so routine that it is fine and dandy means we do not have a Justice System. We have essentially Mafia control of our Country. The laws don’t matter. The rules are irrelevant for those on the inside. The Made Men of the country.

The Republic is dying. It isn’t BLM or ANTIFA killing it. It isn’t the Deplorable's. It isn’t the Right Wing, or the Left. It is our own apathy, and determination to get them no matter what rules are broken. They are the enemy.
So what if the Obama Administration turned the FBI into their Gestapo, SS and Secret Police!

A little Fascism never hurt anyone!
 
OP
SavannahMann

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I have written my opinion before. It is simple. The Federal Agents, and DOJ were caught violating the Brady Rule, and misleading the Court on the evidence. These violations are very common. I mentioned at the time that it was routine even. However, that routine violation, does not make it right.

The DOJ was caught literally red handed. It tainted the case, and made prosecution risky, especially with the probability that Flynn would be found Not Guilty. There are a number of precedents to this type of action. The Judge may order the Defendant released dismissing all charges. The judge may suppress the evidence, favorable to the Prosecution.

An example. Let’s say there was a Bank Robbery. The Bank Cameras did not catch the face of the robber, nor the license of the car driven away. However a woman’s street camera did. The woman is out of town, and instead of getting the video of the street camera via a Subpoena, the Police hacked the camera and got the information. This would be illegal. The Police use it to find the Robber. During the preliminary hearings this information is gotten out.

Now, there is no direct evidence obtained legally to tie the suspect to the crime. The Judge suppresses that evidence, and all the Police have left is that the guy had money when they searched, but the search was a result of the illegally obtained information. So that evidence is suppressed. The Prosecutor moves to dismiss the charges. He has no choice. He has no evidence to take to the Jury.

That is not exactly what happened in the Flynn Case. The warrants were gotten illegally, and the Defense was denied exculpatory information. That is a violation of what is known as the Brady Rule. The Supreme Court ruled that the Defense is entitled to all information pertaining to the case. Even if the Prosecutor does not intend to use it. If requested, the Prosecutor must also hand over the history of the agents involved, have they ever been caught providing false or misleading testimony.

So the way it normally plays out is that the Prosecutor when caught, just folds his cards, and walks away from the table. Normally these violations are routine, and they are handled routinely.

However, this time, it is different. Now, the routine violations are treated as though they don’t really matter. They happen all the time. So why should Flynn get a pass because of a routine matter, no different than speed limits that nobody obeys.

To me, the Outrage is the fact that such violations are routine.

Judge Sullivan asked a retired Judge to examine this, sort of a Judicial review of a Judicial act. All informal, and with no history of being done before. But here is the rub. A extraordinary act to decide if the routine violation of the Brady Law and misleading statements of the FBI were sufficient to drop the charges. This review determined that the violations were no big deal, the Judge should reject the motion to dismiss, and hold Flynn accountable for his earlier plea bargain deal. He lied during his plea bargain deal, so Perjury for him.


I have argued for a very long time that Civil Rights matter. The rights in the Constitution should be sacrosanct. They should be viewed one and all as sacred. They are written in plain English, thou shall not. Thou shall not do this, or that.

Now, it is Thou Shall Not, unless you don’t like this guy, or he is a political annoyance.

It is the Brady Rule that got Cliven Bundy off. You see, the Government is expected to follow the rules, and tell the truth. When they do not do that, the case against the accused goes away.

Arguing that allowing agents to provide false and misleading information and testimony to the Court is so routine that it is fine and dandy means we do not have a Justice System. We have essentially Mafia control of our Country. The laws don’t matter. The rules are irrelevant for those on the inside. The Made Men of the country.

The Republic is dying. It isn’t BLM or ANTIFA killing it. It isn’t the Deplorable's. It isn’t the Right Wing, or the Left. It is our own apathy, and determination to get them no matter what rules are broken. They are the enemy.
So what if the Obama Administration turned the FBI into their Gestapo, SS and Secret Police!

A little Fascism never hurt anyone!
First, thank you for an on topic reply.

Second. Stop trying to blame everything on your political opponents. Bush and the Republicans led the way passing the PATRIOT ACT which allowed those cursed National Security Letters. You remember those. The Agent did not have enough for a Warrant, no problem. They just drop a letter signed by the Supervisor on your desk. You have to give them whatever information they want, you can’t call an attorney. You can’t tell anyone about the letter, and you can’t refuse. Because. Terrorism, or something. More than a hundred thousand of those letters have been used, and not one Terrorist has been found yet because of them.

So blaming Obama for what the FBI was doing for more than half a decade before he showed up is sort of a lie. In fact, it is a lot of a lie.

What is worse, the FBI has been doing that sort of thing for years. The Supreme Court ruled in Katz that the Reasonable Expectation of Privacy applied. There was no need to worry about the Fourth Amendment if the victim had no reasonable expectation of privacy. That mutated to include any information you provide to pretty much anyone by the 1980’s.

The Supreme Court ruled that Katz applied to a case where the Feds got information from a bank without a warrant was fine. You see, you voluntarily surrendered the information to the bank, so you had no reasonable expectation of Privacy. Congress, outraged at this violation of the Fourth Amendment, passed a new law in record time. They required the banks to get even more information from you including W-2’s from work and preferably have your deposits made electronically so there was a much easier trail to follow from the FBI offices without having to go down to the bank to review the information. Travel is such a bore.

Cell Phone carriers? Same thing, Congress mandated that you had to cough up the information to get this service, and the information you were forced to cough up, meant you had no reasonable expectation of privacy.

’Merica. Fuck Yeah!

Now, some Companies decided that they may not have to require a warrant, but they would, to protect their clients. Well. That outraged the FBI. Thank God 9-11 happened so they could get around that, with the NSL’s. When it was found that the Agents were abusing the NSL’s for every investigation except terrorism, Congress acted again, giving wider latitude to the FISA court to oversee warrant Requests. We all know how that worked out.

That is the trend if you take your eye off of the partisan eyepiece. The Government does something it is not supposed to do. It is exposed, and then Congress to show they aren’t anyone’s patsy, and they are not going to stand for this, pass legislation allowing what the Government was doing wrong and making it completely legal. Remember the tracking of the Banking Informration? The Department of Homeland Insecurity told Congress they had to do that to track the payments from and to terrorists.

Congress outraged at the violations of privacy, passed a law making it legal.

Just blaming it on Obama is pretending that they never did it before. They’ve done nothing but that through their long and sordid history. In the 1950’s, the FBI was exposed to be breaking in to houses and rifling through and stealing papers. It was exposed by a book written by Fred Cook called The FBI nobody knows. Well these Black Bag jobs were outrageous. Congress was informed by J. Edgar Hoover himself that there would never be another Black Bag Job.

What he did not tell Congress or the people was that the breaking and entering and Burglaries would now be called FBI Specials. Exact same thing, new name.

Once you learn the history, it is way worse than you think it is. Once you learn the depth of the lies and abuses, you’ll see that blaming it on one party, or the other is asinine. The Republicans are just as happy to abuse your rights as the Democrats. The only thing the two parties do object to is having themselves investigated like that.
 

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