Critical Shortages in the "Helping Professions": What's Going On?

[JoeB131]

And what productive thing have you done with your life Joe? How you get along with your kids and grandkids?

Don't have kids, never wanted them and don't even like them.

But let's see..

Served honorably in the United States Army for 11 years, advancing to the rank of Staff Sergeant.

Had a very successful career in purchasing and inventory planning, working for several multi-national corporations.

Started a successful business that has helped thousands of people find jobs.

And I did it all without hating on people who are worse off than I am, like you do.

 

[Katniss]

Only the truly clueless will sign up for law enforcement these days, at least in the black run major cities, and no one wants to be subjected to the abuse they will get from racist students and administrators in public schools, either; too many fake criminal charges and kangaroo courts for those who happen to be white.

As for nurses, they're grossly over-worked, to avoid having to hire adequate help, for one. The pressures and overtime required is criminal and ridiculous. The training is too long and and difficult only to end up abused and driven to exhaustion, and like the above professions the truly intelligent and qualified can find much better opportunities and just don't need the risk and abuse. We should be worried about those who will apply and work under such conditions, since they're obviously mentally ill to even consider them as careers, especially males, and most especially white males..

Spoken like a morally bankrupt, selfish, hypocritical democrat

I don't necessarily agree with how it was put but Picaro's comment reflects reality. It's not pretty and it's hard to hear but it's a genuine representation of what may be contributing factors.

 

[Picaro]

Only the truly clueless will sign up for law enforcement these days, at least in the black run major cities, and no one wants to be subjected to the abuse they will get from racist students and administrators in public schools, either; too many fake criminal charges and kangaroo courts for those who happen to be white.

As for nurses, they're grossly over-worked, to avoid having to hire adequate help, for one. The pressures and overtime required is criminal and ridiculous. The training is too long and and difficult only to end up abused and driven to exhaustion, and like the above professions the truly intelligent and qualified can find much better opportunities and just don't need the risk and abuse. We should be worried about those who will apply and work under such conditions, since they're obviously mentally ill to even consider them as careers, especially males, and most especially white males..

So I'm reading, basically: These professions are unattractive, they're going to remain unattractive and there's nothing we can do about it.

Does that about sum it up?

Well, since minimum wage adjusted for real inflation would be around $17.00 an hour by conservative estimates, about $35K a year, and the legal liabilities and extreme ease with which a career in those fields can be ruined by any old false accusation, I would say yes. Would you say different? Or would you just choose a career far less toxic that paid at least $70K year without having to live in NYC or the Bay Area or LA, and not have to worry about having enough money to hire a lawyer all the time if some tards went after you for frowning at their Precious Jewel while attention whoring and your admins of course bail on you at the drop of a hat???

On the other hand, many of the private schools have no such problems and the the Burbs around Dallas pay more than Dallas does for police officers; they have no problems finding qualified officers either.

 

[Picaro]

Only the truly clueless will sign up for law enforcement these days, at least in the black run major cities, and no one wants to be subjected to the abuse they will get from racist students and administrators in public schools, either; too many fake criminal charges and kangaroo courts for those who happen to be white.

As for nurses, they're grossly over-worked, to avoid having to hire adequate help, for one. The pressures and overtime required is criminal and ridiculous. The training is too long and and difficult only to end up abused and driven to exhaustion, and like the above professions the truly intelligent and qualified can find much better opportunities and just don't need the risk and abuse. We should be worried about those who will apply and work under such conditions, since they're obviously mentally ill to even consider them as careers, especially males, and most especially white males..

Spoken like a morally bankrupt, selfish, hypocritical democrat

I don't necessarily agree with how it was put but Picaro's comment reflects reality. It's not pretty and it's hard to hear but it's a genuine representation of what may be contributing factors.

My family has all those professions represented in it, so I'm quite familiar with the issues driving people out of them. Unkotare is a sicko deviant troll, so just ignore him. Google his name to get an idea of just how sick he/she/ it/mutant is.

 

[Disir]

Had a plethora of teachers but didn't want to pay them. In fact, several states went out of their way to hire folks with experience in a profession and not go through classroom management etc. I watched a school district hire over 20 new teachers and then after 2 years decide they weren't good enough. Had it not been for one school board member telling the newspaper that the issue had nothing to do with the quality of teachers and everything to do with contracts then these people would have been badmouthed continuously. Tenure exists for a reason, folks. It means that whatever parent that doesn't like science or the history or whatever being taught can't pitch a fit and have you fired. It takes about 5 years for a teacher to become really effective.

There are special education teachers that are trained but don't want to hire them. It's cheaper to hire a para. It's cheaper to mainstream kids with behavioral problems. Teachers are buying their own supplies. People like to throw average salaries around like everyone walks in and makes that. That isn't how it works. So, why stay if you have to work 2-3 jobs to make it work.

The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are all about charter schools even though there is a large amount of fraud and real estate fraud nation wide. Neither party gives a damn.

There are a plethora of studies that are sent down that go nowhere. There is no real work--life balance. People trash the unions but when the teacher walk out here occurred the union didn't see it coming and then desperately tried to get a grip on it. The governor and the state legislators at the time talked to the teachers like they were children.

Shortage of teachers? Color me surprised.

Nurses? No. Don't want to pay them either. It's about lowering the wage here.

 

[SweetSue92]

Only the truly clueless will sign up for law enforcement these days, at least in the black run major cities, and no one wants to be subjected to the abuse they will get from racist students and administrators in public schools, either; too many fake criminal charges and kangaroo courts for those who happen to be white.

As for nurses, they're grossly over-worked, to avoid having to hire adequate help, for one. The pressures and overtime required is criminal and ridiculous. The training is too long and and difficult only to end up abused and driven to exhaustion, and like the above professions the truly intelligent and qualified can find much better opportunities and just don't need the risk and abuse. We should be worried about those who will apply and work under such conditions, since they're obviously mentally ill to even consider them as careers, especially males, and most especially white males..

Spoken like a morally bankrupt, selfish, hypocritical democrat

I don't necessarily agree with how it was put but Picaro's comment reflects reality. It's not pretty and it's hard to hear but it's a genuine representation of what may be contributing factors.

Oh I think that's definitely true. But I also think it's a huge problem for all of us that we should be talking about. Unfortunately, we get caught up in non-issues like "RUSSIA" for years and years....and real impactful problems like this are totally ignored.

That may actually be by design

 

[Picaro]

They have always had a nursing shortage of RN's, and I imagine its worst than ever with the baby boomers and the older nurses. Short staffing is always a problem. They will need to hire more LPN's and Aides.

and in schools its the poorer areas:

According to Advance Illinois, in 2017, 90 percent of teacher vacancies in the state – 1,006 positions in all – were in underfunded school districts. Seventy-four percent were in majority-minority school districts, and 81 percent were in low-income districts.

and Devos is the one to make the problem worst than ever, she did it in MI.

Cops, the suicide rate of cops is over the top.

Teacher shortage is worse in minority and low-income districts but scattered everywhere and in some areas is wide-spread.

Black people segregated themselves into and run those districts, so let them solve their own problems; they choose to be ignorant and choose to blame anybody else but themselves.

 

[Katniss]

Most if not all of the professions listed are taxing on an individual's mental state. They require a measured approach at all times and even then the individual is at risk of being sued or accused of wrong doing. That in itself can turn off or burn out anyone. In general, the shortage could be corrected by several simple policies but I'm not sure these suggestions aren't already in place:

• Increase in pay; hazard pay; bonuses
  
• Shorter rotations/hours
• Student Loan Repayment or Relief
• Guaranteed X amount of vacation or personal leave
• Guaranteed Retirement package
• Immigrant pathway to citizenship

 

[Picaro]

Only the truly clueless will sign up for law enforcement these days, at least in the black run major cities, and no one wants to be subjected to the abuse they will get from racist students and administrators in public schools, either; too many fake criminal charges and kangaroo courts for those who happen to be white.

As for nurses, they're grossly over-worked, to avoid having to hire adequate help, for one. The pressures and overtime required is criminal and ridiculous. The training is too long and and difficult only to end up abused and driven to exhaustion, and like the above professions the truly intelligent and qualified can find much better opportunities and just don't need the risk and abuse. We should be worried about those who will apply and work under such conditions, since they're obviously mentally ill to even consider them as careers, especially males, and most especially white males..

Spoken like a morally bankrupt, selfish, hypocritical democrat

Oh my, I upset a sicko freak. Oh Noes!

 

[OldLady]

Nationwide, there are critical shortages in nursing, teaching and law enforcement. Shortages vary by area.

A common problem: the American public is increasingly rude and demanding. In short, the advent of the internet and social media has made us ungrateful and crass. The young people in NYC throwing water on cops is a recent example.

When you're in a helping profession, you expect to take some amount of flak and never strike it rich. But who wants to sign up for low pay and abuse?

Not many people, it would seem. Will the American people recover enough manners to restore these professions, or will taxpayers have to front more money?

Or do you see another remedy for the shortages?

On the Nursing Shortage: Nursing Shortage'
Teacher Shortage: Teacher Shortage is 'Real and Growing, and Worse than We Thought'
Police Officer Shortage: Police officer shortage impacts departments

On American Civility: In Theory: Is America becoming less civil?

People are not investing enormous amounts in four or more years of college to wind up lower middle class.
It isn't because people are "rude."

 

[SweetSue92]

Had a plethora of teachers but didn't want to pay them. In fact, several states went out of their way to hire folks with experience in a profession and not go through classroom management etc. I watched a school district hire over 20 new teachers and then after 2 years decide they weren't good enough. Had it not been for one school board member telling the newspaper that the issue had nothing to do with the quality of teachers and everything to do with contracts then these people would have been badmouthed continuously. Tenure exists for a reason, folks. It means that whatever parent that doesn't like science or the history or whatever being taught can't pitch a fit and have you fired. It takes about 5 years for a teacher to become really effective.

There are special education teachers that are trained but don't want to hire them. It's cheaper to hire a para. It's cheaper to mainstream kids with behavioral problems. Teachers are buying their own supplies. People like to throw average salaries around like everyone walks in and makes that. That isn't how it works. So, why stay if you have to work 2-3 jobs to make it work.

The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are all about charter schools even though there is a large amount of fraud and real estate fraud nation wide. Neither party gives a damn.

There are a plethora of studies that are sent down that go nowhere. There is no real work--life balance. People trash the unions but when the teacher walk out here occurred the union didn't see it coming and then desperately tried to get a grip on it. The governor and the state legislators at the time talked to the teachers like they were children.

Shortage of teachers? Color me surprised.

Nurses? No. Don't want to pay them either. It's about lowering the wage here.

There is so much good stuff here that I'm going to have to come back to it. But yes. The old stupid saw is, "people who can, do, people who can't, teach". There might be some pockets of truth to that BUT what is definitely not true is that people who can do can also TEACH it.

Teaching is its own art and science. Just because you can do something does not mean you have the propensity, people skills and disposition to teach it. Some people--actually many people--should NOT be teachers. Lecturers, sure. Having been through ed school I can tell you that MANY professors are absolutely crap at teaching. They lecture. Which is barely teaching.

A second issue is how our schools are literally now Day Treatment Centers and academic centers somehow in one. And it is not working. We can not educate gen ed students and run Day Treatment Centers simultaneously on the slim staffs we have now with the overwhelming disabilities we see in schools.

Oh, and the morons in the capitol saying, hey. When a 7 year old elopes, don't touch them. You can chase them. HEY! If they run out in the highway....at least you didn't touch them!!!

This is the moronic so-called "thinking" we get from the jerks in the state capitol. In both parties.

I love my students. I love my families. I hate being ruled by morons.

 

[Picaro]

To be honest I think both parties are culpable for different reasons. But sadly I don't think the fixes will come through in time to fix the problems.

It isn't about Parties, it's about local school boards and local pols and the parents of the students. Who's in the White House or sitting in your district's Congressional seats don't mean a thing; all school districts are locally run and independent.

This is the moronic so-called "thinking" we get from the jerks in the state capitol. In both parties.

Also true.

 

[Disir]

Most if not all of the professions listed are taxing on an individual's mental state. They require a measured approach at all times and even then the individual is at risk of being sued or accused of wrong doing. That in itself can turn off or burn out anyone. In general, the shortage could be corrected by several simple policies but I'm not sure these suggestions aren't already in place:

• Increase in pay; hazard pay; bonuses
  
• Shorter rotations/hours
• Student Loan Repayment or Relief
• Guaranteed X amount of vacation or personal leave
• Guaranteed Retirement package
• Immigrant pathway to citizenship

Had a guaranteed retired package in every state. States used the funds elsewhere and then when it came time to deal with retirement they went out of their way to not pay them.

Student loan repayment is covered by working in the districts necessary.

There already is an immigrant pathway to citizenship. Nice try.

Shorter shifts? Is this McDonalds?

 

[SweetSue92]

Nationwide, there are critical shortages in nursing, teaching and law enforcement. Shortages vary by area.

A common problem: the American public is increasingly rude and demanding. In short, the advent of the internet and social media has made us ungrateful and crass. The young people in NYC throwing water on cops is a recent example.

When you're in a helping profession, you expect to take some amount of flak and never strike it rich. But who wants to sign up for low pay and abuse?

Not many people, it would seem. Will the American people recover enough manners to restore these professions, or will taxpayers have to front more money?

Or do you see another remedy for the shortages?

On the Nursing Shortage: Nursing Shortage'
Teacher Shortage: Teacher Shortage is 'Real and Growing, and Worse than We Thought'
Police Officer Shortage: Police officer shortage impacts departments

On American Civility: In Theory: Is America becoming less civil?

People are not investing enormous amounts in four or more years of college to wind up lower middle class.
It isn't because people are "rude."

I understand pay is a concern in some states with teaching. It is not so much a concern in nursing however. So yeah. Dealing with overbearing and rude people all the time is absolutely a concern when you went into the profession to be helpful.

Helpful people do not expect to be fawned over. Maybe just not screamed at, put down and demeaned.

 

[SweetSue92]

To be honest I think both parties are culpable for different reasons. But sadly I don't think the fixes will come through in time to fix the problems.

It isn't about Parties, it's about local school boards and local pols and the parents of the students. Who's in the White House or sitting in your district's Congressional seats don't mean a thing; all school districts are locally run and independent.

This is the moronic so-called "thinking" we get from the jerks in the state capitol. In both parties.

Also true.

Sort of true. Local school boards have some sway but state legislators make a lot of laws that are influential, and local boards can't do a darn thing about those.

 

[Disir]

Had a plethora of teachers but didn't want to pay them. In fact, several states went out of their way to hire folks with experience in a profession and not go through classroom management etc. I watched a school district hire over 20 new teachers and then after 2 years decide they weren't good enough. Had it not been for one school board member telling the newspaper that the issue had nothing to do with the quality of teachers and everything to do with contracts then these people would have been badmouthed continuously. Tenure exists for a reason, folks. It means that whatever parent that doesn't like science or the history or whatever being taught can't pitch a fit and have you fired. It takes about 5 years for a teacher to become really effective.

There are special education teachers that are trained but don't want to hire them. It's cheaper to hire a para. It's cheaper to mainstream kids with behavioral problems. Teachers are buying their own supplies. People like to throw average salaries around like everyone walks in and makes that. That isn't how it works. So, why stay if you have to work 2-3 jobs to make it work.

The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are all about charter schools even though there is a large amount of fraud and real estate fraud nation wide. Neither party gives a damn.

There are a plethora of studies that are sent down that go nowhere. There is no real work--life balance. People trash the unions but when the teacher walk out here occurred the union didn't see it coming and then desperately tried to get a grip on it. The governor and the state legislators at the time talked to the teachers like they were children.

Shortage of teachers? Color me surprised.

Nurses? No. Don't want to pay them either. It's about lowering the wage here.

There is so much good stuff here that I'm going to have to come back to it. But yes. The old stupid saw is, "people who can, do, people who can't, teach". There might be some pockets of truth to that BUT what is definitely not true is that people who can do can also TEACH it.

Teaching is its own art and science. Just because you can do something does not mean you have the propensity, people skills and disposition to teach it. Some people--actually many people--should NOT be teachers. Lecturers, sure. Having been through ed school I can tell you that MANY professors are absolutely crap at teaching. They lecture. Which is barely teaching.

A second issue is how our schools are literally now Day Treatment Centers and academic centers somehow in one. And it is not working. We can not educate gen ed students and run Day Treatment Centers simultaneously on the slim staffs we have now with the overwhelming disabilities we see in schools.

Oh, and the morons in the capitol saying, hey. When a 7 year old elopes, don't touch them. You can chase them. HEY! If they run out in the highway....at least you didn't touch them!!!

This is the moronic so-called "thinking" we get from the jerks in the state capitol. In both parties.

I love my students. I love my families. I hate being ruled by morons.

And when there is a fight happening? Game over.

What irritates the hell out of me is when they come out with the ranking of countries. It's propaganda. This whole faux privatization started under Reagan and they have done nothing but run experiment after experiment.

 

[Katniss]

Most if not all of the professions listed are taxing on an individual's mental state. They require a measured approach at all times and even then the individual is at risk of being sued or accused of wrong doing. That in itself can turn off or burn out anyone. In general, the shortage could be corrected by several simple policies but I'm not sure these suggestions aren't already in place:

• Increase in pay; hazard pay; bonuses
  
• Shorter rotations/hours
• Student Loan Repayment or Relief
• Guaranteed X amount of vacation or personal leave
• Guaranteed Retirement package
• Immigrant pathway to citizenship

Had a guaranteed retired package in every state. States used the funds elsewhere and then when it came time to deal with retirement they went out of their way to not pay them.

Student loan repayment is covered by working in the districts necessary.

There already is an immigrant pathway to citizenship. Nice try.

Shorter shifts? Is this McDonalds?

The poster asked for ideas. I gave them. The problem with the country and why we can't problem solve is because we aren't willing to consider ALL options and we try and stuff people in political camps and boxes.

Teachers, police officers, nurses are dealing with high stress situations from multiple sides. To offer shorter shifts or longer vacations allow them to recover and rejuvenate. No, it's nothing like McDonalds.

Again, these are suggestions as requested for discussion not insult.

 

[Picaro]

To be honest I think both parties are culpable for different reasons. But sadly I don't think the fixes will come through in time to fix the problems.

It isn't about Parties, it's about local school boards and local pols and the parents of the students. Who's in the White House or sitting in your district's Congressional seats don't mean a thing; all school districts are locally run and independent.

This is the moronic so-called "thinking" we get from the jerks in the state capitol. In both parties.

Also true.

Sort of true. Local school boards have some sway but state legislators make a lot of laws that are influential, and local boards can't do a darn thing about those.

The locals can do a lot more than they claim they can, they just don't want to.

 

[SweetSue92]

Most if not all of the professions listed are taxing on an individual's mental state. They require a measured approach at all times and even then the individual is at risk of being sued or accused of wrong doing. That in itself can turn off or burn out anyone. In general, the shortage could be corrected by several simple policies but I'm not sure these suggestions aren't already in place:

• Increase in pay; hazard pay; bonuses
  
• Shorter rotations/hours
• Student Loan Repayment or Relief
• Guaranteed X amount of vacation or personal leave
• Guaranteed Retirement package
• Immigrant pathway to citizenship

I know in my profession--teaching if that's not clear already--at least student loan repayment is already being looked at and in some places, implemented. And of course some states have had to increase pay. In addition, some school districts have a four-day school week because this saves money. The days are slightly longer I believe, but it saves money overall in costs.

I'm not sure how I feel about that. It would seem to me our students need all the educational help they can get.

 

[SweetSue92]

Had a plethora of teachers but didn't want to pay them. In fact, several states went out of their way to hire folks with experience in a profession and not go through classroom management etc. I watched a school district hire over 20 new teachers and then after 2 years decide they weren't good enough. Had it not been for one school board member telling the newspaper that the issue had nothing to do with the quality of teachers and everything to do with contracts then these people would have been badmouthed continuously. Tenure exists for a reason, folks. It means that whatever parent that doesn't like science or the history or whatever being taught can't pitch a fit and have you fired. It takes about 5 years for a teacher to become really effective.

There are special education teachers that are trained but don't want to hire them. It's cheaper to hire a para. It's cheaper to mainstream kids with behavioral problems. Teachers are buying their own supplies. People like to throw average salaries around like everyone walks in and makes that. That isn't how it works. So, why stay if you have to work 2-3 jobs to make it work.

The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are all about charter schools even though there is a large amount of fraud and real estate fraud nation wide. Neither party gives a damn.

There are a plethora of studies that are sent down that go nowhere. There is no real work--life balance. People trash the unions but when the teacher walk out here occurred the union didn't see it coming and then desperately tried to get a grip on it. The governor and the state legislators at the time talked to the teachers like they were children.

Shortage of teachers? Color me surprised.

Nurses? No. Don't want to pay them either. It's about lowering the wage here.

There is so much good stuff here that I'm going to have to come back to it. But yes. The old stupid saw is, "people who can, do, people who can't, teach". There might be some pockets of truth to that BUT what is definitely not true is that people who can do can also TEACH it.

Teaching is its own art and science. Just because you can do something does not mean you have the propensity, people skills and disposition to teach it. Some people--actually many people--should NOT be teachers. Lecturers, sure. Having been through ed school I can tell you that MANY professors are absolutely crap at teaching. They lecture. Which is barely teaching.

A second issue is how our schools are literally now Day Treatment Centers and academic centers somehow in one. And it is not working. We can not educate gen ed students and run Day Treatment Centers simultaneously on the slim staffs we have now with the overwhelming disabilities we see in schools.

Oh, and the morons in the capitol saying, hey. When a 7 year old elopes, don't touch them. You can chase them. HEY! If they run out in the highway....at least you didn't touch them!!!

This is the moronic so-called "thinking" we get from the jerks in the state capitol. In both parties.

I love my students. I love my families. I hate being ruled by morons.

And when there is a fight happening? Game over.

What irritates the hell out of me is when they come out with the ranking of countries. It's propaganda. This whole faux privatization started under Reagan and they have done nothing but run experiment after experiment.

Education is very, very good at never asking the people who do the work what they think and what they KNOW, but having fatcats from on high dictate what should be done, and this changes about every five years or so. It just adds to the frustration and burnout. Good teachers are not immune to good ideas and in fact we're always looking for the best ideas. But. How bout you actually ask us once in a while?