Criminalizing unemployed - Sen. Hatch wants unemployed to face mandatory drug tests

[Big Fitz]

The only one making a 'tard' out of himself is you. You are obtuse to what cost externalization IS and how it is socialism.

You've been pwned again and screaming like a little ***** 'no I'm not', isn't changing the final score. Quit trying to look stupider than you already do.

 

[Avatar4321]

Its obvious there are some people here that still don't understand what criminalizing something means. despite the fact that there are several dozen pages of discussion on it.

People want the tax payers to fit the bill for illegal drug sales. Doesn't matter what reality is.

Why don't we just do what is necessary and shrink government so we don't have handouts? That way people can take care of themselves.

 

[saveliberty]

hatch is an assclown as are the ******* GED educated losers here who support him.
Oh yeah, ConNarc has a history degree, frank has finance, and soggyracist is a pencil pusher. Clowns

See folks, this is what happens when you smoke dope. Topspin has totally lost his ability to debate with facts and reason. Instead we get personal attacks and feelings. When you have your hand out for something, there are going to be strings attached. Don't like the strings, don't take what they are offering. Some how buying your dope with unemployment checks just seems like a real slam against the hard working people that provided your money.

I don't know what state sold you a GED, but small gov is ******* comical coming from you red state rednecks.

Speaking of GEDs...how many more credits do you need? I can pay my own way. Your about a decade out minimum. (that means shortest period).

 

[topspin]

See folks, this is what happens when you smoke dope. Topspin has totally lost his ability to debate with facts and reason. Instead we get personal attacks and feelings. When you have your hand out for something, there are going to be strings attached. Don't like the strings, don't take what they are offering. Some how buying your dope with unemployment checks just seems like a real slam against the hard working people that provided your money.

I don't know what state sold you a GED, but small gov is ******* comical coming from you red state rednecks.

Speaking of GEDs...how many more credits do you need? I can pay my own way. Your about a decade out minimum. (that means shortest period).

I have an MBA saveBIGgovernment, and I bet I'm more able to pay for shit than you are. clown

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Okay, since you like this libertarian idea of legalized drugs, let's include the fact of another libertarian idea: Freedom of association.

If I, as an employer want to hire someone, I have the right to exclude all drug users. Freedom of association. I don't want potheads on staff. Therefore, I have the right to say you can't work for me and it's not illegal.

If you're managing an accounting-firm (or, bank)....where very-little creativity is required....fine!

On-the-other-hand, company's that're more-geared towards engineering/R&D are finding they're excluding way-too-many people (from possible employment, with them), using drug-testing.​

Or is it we just want to protect your personal right to get stoned without repercussions?

Ah, yes....there's that....you're need to totally-control you own private-little-World; where regimentation is Priority 1. People (like you) typically hire ex-military....'cause they still know how to take orders....and, are no threat to your ego.

It's gotta (nearly) drive you insane, watching Silicon Valley make the BIG BUCK$!!!! (....While you're wasting so-much-time playing Social Engineer.)​

Obviously you don't have a job and are posting from your mommy's basement between episodes of Stargate SG1 or you're just putting on an act here.

Here ya' go!!

This is the more-civil way to admit you've (officially) LOST THE ARGUMENT!!!!!!! (....And, HAD to resort to a personal-attack!!)

​

 

[beowolfe]

Sen. Hatch wants unemployed to face mandatory drug tests - The Hill

Hey Orrin, why not just use ankle monitors?

WHO will pay for this expensive 'program'? Fiscal conservatism is just a code word. It is all about trying to turn democracy into an aristocracy. Hatch's 'program' would help to perpetuate the perception that there's "a two-class system where if you're unemployed, you no longer have the same rights as other people. It kind of criminalizes being jobless, just like over the past 20 years or so we've criminalized being homeless. That seems to be the answer for a lot of Republicans; just go ahead and go to war on the problem instead of dealing with it in a more human way."

See the only reason that someone doesn't have a job in this thriving economy is because they are drug addicts. Hatch is just trying to help.

What with David Walker's wistful call for a return to debtor's prison and this hideous attack on the unemployed it's evident that the fatuous elites in this country are so out of touch that they really have no idea how obscene their aristocratic braying sounds to average Americans. or perhaps they do, and just don't care. If your point is to pretend that 10% official unemployment is simply a reflection of the bad character of the unemployed so you can protect the wealth of the ruling class, then turning every unemployed person into a suspected criminal and potential drug user makes sense.

RefRef

She the owner/manager that ran the company into the ground and caused people to become unemployed also be tested?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Okay, since you like this libertarian idea of legalized drugs, let's include the fact of another libertarian idea: Freedom of association.

If I, as an employer want to hire someone, I have the right to exclude all drug users. Freedom of association. I don't want potheads on staff. Therefore, I have the right to say you can't work for me and it's not illegal.

If you're managing an accounting-firm (or, bank)....where very-little creativity is required....fine!

On-the-other-hand, company's that're more-geared towards engineering/R&D are finding they're excluding way-too-many people (from possible employment, with them), using drug-testing.​

Or is it we just want to protect your personal right to get stoned without repercussions?

Ah, yes....there's that....you're need to totally-control you own private-little-World; where regimentation is Priority 1. People (like you) typically hire ex-military....'cause they still know how to take orders....and, are no threat to your ego.

It's gotta (nearly) drive you insane, watching Silicon Valley make the BIG BUCK$!!!! (....While you're wasting so-much-time playing Social Engineer.)​

I dare say that taking orders from your boss would be a good thing. Along with some of the other traits one picks up in the military. You want good employees, look at your veterans.

* Ability to get the job done
* Exceeding oneself
* Overcoming one's fear
* Discipline (following orders and sticking to the plan)
* Consistency in bringing one's A-game to every situation
* Courage
* Skill and proficiency
* Reliability

I guess that'd be fine, in an environment where creativity/calculated-risks/minimal-oversight aren't requirements.

I don't see how anyone, straight-outta-the-military, would be prepared for the freedom/latitude involved (in an engineering/design-environment), without a serious-deprogramming.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

If you're managing an accounting-firm (or, bank)....where very-little creativity is required....fine!​

On-the-other-hand, company's that're more-geared towards engineering/R&D are finding they're excluding way-too-many people (from possible employment, with them), using drug-testing.​

Ah, yes....there's that....you're need to totally-control you own private-little-World; where regimentation is Priority 1. People (like you) typically hire ex-military....'cause they still know how to take orders....and, are no threat to your ego.​

It's gotta (nearly) drive you insane, watching Silicon Valley make the BIG BUCK$!!!! (....While you're wasting so-much-time playing Social Engineer.)​

I dare say that taking orders from your boss would be a good thing. Along with some of the other traits one picks up in the military. You want good employees, look at your veterans.

* Ability to get the job done
* Exceeding oneself
* Overcoming one's fear
* Discipline (following orders and sticking to the plan)
* Consistency in bringing one's A-game to every situation
* Courage
* Skill and proficiency
* Reliability

* Adapt and overcome.

.....And, wait for further orders.​

 

[SFC Ollie]

You certainly can tell who has been in the military and who hasn't. My last platoon was responsible for a cellular communications network that would have covered half the state of NY. Any one of my troops could have planned the network.

And these imbeciles think that the military is a kindergarten.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Sen. Hatch wants unemployed to face mandatory drug tests - The Hill

Hey Orrin, why not just use ankle monitors?

WHO will pay for this expensive 'program'? Fiscal conservatism is just a code word. It is all about trying to turn democracy into an aristocracy. Hatch's 'program' would help to perpetuate the perception that there's "a two-class system where if you're unemployed, you no longer have the same rights as other people. It kind of criminalizes being jobless, just like over the past 20 years or so we've criminalized being homeless. That seems to be the answer for a lot of Republicans; just go ahead and go to war on the problem instead of dealing with it in a more human way."

See the only reason that someone doesn't have a job in this thriving economy is because they are drug addicts. Hatch is just trying to help.

<snip>

]

I don't see the problem with this.

Most employers test for drugs before hiring a new empoloyee. Why? Because a person who uses is less reliable and less attentive. Sorry. That's just the way it is.

You DO know that they lie, in D.A.R.E.-education, right??

(Unless, of course....you can show me some o' their footnotes.)

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I love it when "small government" conservatives demand more government to police people's private lives.

No doubt.

It's as if they feel entitled to having their sadistic-nature subsidized.​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I love it when "small government" conservatives demand more government to police people's private lives.

They call themselves 'conservatives', but what they really are is authoritarians. Authoritarians have a very strong affinity for punishment. Some even enjoy it, regardless of the cost to society.

It's all relative.

Sometimes they have no choice, like....when employment is in-service to The Lord.​

 

[SFC Ollie]

Sen. Hatch wants unemployed to face mandatory drug tests - The Hill

Hey Orrin, why not just use ankle monitors?

WHO will pay for this expensive 'program'? Fiscal conservatism is just a code word. It is all about trying to turn democracy into an aristocracy. Hatch's 'program' would help to perpetuate the perception that there's "a two-class system where if you're unemployed, you no longer have the same rights as other people. It kind of criminalizes being jobless, just like over the past 20 years or so we've criminalized being homeless. That seems to be the answer for a lot of Republicans; just go ahead and go to war on the problem instead of dealing with it in a more human way."

See the only reason that someone doesn't have a job in this thriving economy is because they are drug addicts. Hatch is just trying to help.

<snip>

]

I don't see the problem with this.

Most employers test for drugs before hiring a new empoloyee. Why? Because a person who uses is less reliable and less attentive. Sorry. That's just the way it is.

You DO know that they lie, in D.A.R.E.-education, right??

(Unless, of course....you can show me some o' their footnotes.)

​

Just gotta love those biased sites.......

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I love it when "small government" conservatives demand more government to police people's private lives.

They call themselves 'conservatives', but what they really are is authoritarians. Authoritarians have a very strong affinity for punishment. Some even enjoy it, regardless of the cost to society.

They would rather spend $40,000 per year to incarcerate a human being, than spend $9,500 per year for welfare relief.They have taken over the Republican party and the Tea party...they will destroy America if they gain enough power.
While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives. Robert Altmeyer

Lefties whine about conservatives and authoritarians, but that strawman is bullshit. The fact is that insurance rates and ultimately US jobs depend upon worker behaviors.

Please. Insurance-companies can ALWAYS find ways to keep their investors happy.

​

 

[saveliberty]

Some days I picture Shaman standing on the corner passing out Playboys to the little kids on their way home from school as a public service in his mind.

 

[topspin]

Some days I picture Shaman standing on the corner passing out Playboys to the little kids on their way home from school as a public service in his mind.

I see you as more the wide-stance poser.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

They call themselves 'conservatives', but what they really are is authoritarians. Authoritarians have a very strong affinity for punishment. Some even enjoy it, regardless of the cost to society.

They would rather spend $40,000 per year to incarcerate a human being, than spend $9,500 per year for welfare relief.They have taken over the Republican party and the Tea party...they will destroy America if they gain enough power.
While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives. Robert Altmeyer

What part of "no tax money for drugs" don't you get? It was part of my job to ID people who looked strung-out or under the influence, or impaired from drinking and send them for a random drug test. Insurance rates and ultimately US jobs depend on having professional workers working is a safe environment.

Lefties whine about conservatives and authoritarians, but that strawman is bullshit. The fact is that insurance rates and ultimately US jobs depend upon worker behaviors. If US workers are unsafe, the jobs will go elsewhere.

We need that "small" government to make sure that our workers are safe, and make sure our insurance rates don't go up, and make sure that workers are "behaving".

Sure doesn't sound like "small" government to me.

It's an Amerikan-tradition......​

"Ford was a nobody until 1914 when he announced a $5.00 per day pay scale for his workers. This move brought him nationwide publicity.

Hundreds of thousands of men from all over the U.S. arrived in Detroit, and Ford had the pick of the youngest and strongest, to man his mass production rapidly moving assembly line.

In order for the men to qualify for the $5.00 per day pay scale they had to meet certain criteria set up by Ford. He set up a special department modeled after the Inquisition called the Sociology Department. The initial staff consisted of 30 "investigators" who visited the homes of all his workers and noted every detail of their private lives. Any worker who got divorced, used alcohol, or took in boarders was disqualified from the higher pay scale. Here is a quote from a Ford biography:

"At its worst, the new department was a mildly tyrannical instrument which sowed the seeds of inquisition at the Ford Motor Co. Its agents became, to some extent, collectors of tales and suspicions. Examined on their doorsteps, wives were called upon to testify against husbands, children against parents. Hearsay as well as fact found its way to a card catalogue where a record was kept of every worker's deviations. To avoid getting demerits in this index, the wily Ford employees sometimes beat the game by only pretending an interest in the rules. To some extent, prying induced lying. As Ford was to put it in his autobiography, his home visitors made an effort to break up the "evil custom" of taking in male boarders. To get around this prohibition, certain of his workmen and their wives simply passed off lodgers as "brothers" or "cousins."

"In 1931, Ford employed an ex-boxer and "tough guy" named Harry Bennett to head up his security division or Service Department as it was euphemistically called.

Eventually Bennett had the largest private army of thugs, hoodlums and ex-convicts in the world. Ford deferred to him in EVEYTHING. He ran the Ford Motor Company with an iron fist. Hitler's Gestapo was modeled after the Ford Service Department, with its army of ruffians and thugs."

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Quality will go to Hell too.

....As if TOO-many companies need any encouragement to sacrifice quality, for schedule.

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

What part of "no tax money for drugs" don't you get? It was part of my job to ID people who looked strung-out or under the influence, or impaired from drinking and send them for a random drug test. Insurance rates and ultimately US jobs depend on having professional workers working is a safe environment.

Lefties whine about conservatives and authoritarians, but that strawman is bullshit. The fact is that insurance rates and ultimately US jobs depend upon worker behaviors. If US workers are unsafe, the jobs will go elsewhere.

We need that "small" government to make sure that our workers are safe, and make sure our insurance rates don't go up, and make sure that workers are "behaving".

Sure doesn't sound like "small" government to me.

What do you expect from an authoritarian? Nothing BUT false strawman arguments to justify punishment, conformity and power over every aspect of your life. But no drug tests for the CEO's that ship jobs overseas where people are paid pennies a day and treated like dogs.

....Because....after all....alcohol isn't a drug. Just ask them.

​

 

[Bfgrn]

The only one making a 'tard' out of himself is you. You are obtuse to what cost externalization IS and how it is socialism.

You've been pwned again and screaming like a little ***** 'no I'm not', isn't changing the final score. Quit trying to look stupider than you already do.

WOW, you don't even have enough backbone to respond to my post. That's because I just school you and exposed your infantile concept of free markets and your lack of comprehension of cost externalization. But then to claim faux victory shows you totally lack ethics. Now I know why you chop up other people's posts. You eliminate all evidence that YOU were pwned.

I will do you the favor of re-posting how you were pwned... you're welcome pea brain.

The only one making a 'tard' out of himself is you. You are obtuse to what cost externalization IS and how it is socialism.

Let's take your hypothetical bottled water plant. Your '20 cents a gallon to produce one clean gallon of bottled water' is your internalized costs.

Your resource for the water is a stream that runs through your property. It requires little processing because it is a clean source.

I own the adjacent property to yours. The same stream runs through my property, but I am upstream from you. I open a plastic bottle factory. Part of my cost is disposing of toxic chemicals that are a byproduct of the manufacturing process. It would cost me $100 per gallon to have it put in containers and hauled off if I internalize that cost, so I decide to run a pipe into the stream that runs through my property. I just increased MY profits. I have externalized MY costs on to YOU. NOW your 20 cents per gallon will become $1.00 per gallon to remove the toxins... tough shit for YOU.