Creationists

[Youwerecreated]

Many of the brightest minds believe that time started with the big bang. Before THAT? Who knows? Who could know? Our minds may not be wired to make any sense of what if anything or any "when" before that any better than a cow could understand the moon landing.

Giving up and assigning all things not understood to "god" won't do though. That's lazy stinking thinking.

Many of the brightest minds believe God is tangible!

Really? Compared to who? Name them and thier relative brightness.

You can start here.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Seventh-Day-Scientists-Academics-Explain/dp/0890513767/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1307657605&sr=8-3]Amazon.com: On the Seventh Day: Forty Scientists and Academics Explain Why They Believe in God (9780890513767): John Ashton: Books[/ame]

 

[Montrovant]

Lazy thinking, or the best explanation for the evidence at hand. I find it so funny that folks can believe in magical multiple universes but they can't believe in an alien being that is so advanced, it exists outside of space, time, matter and energy. At least with the latter theory, we can look at the digital code and see evidence for implentation by an intelligent agent. What evidence do we have for multiple universes??? Other than a rebuttal to the Creationist's argument for fine tuning???

Why must one believe either?

I think it's ironic that you post about evolutionists incorrectly using the process of elimination to prove the ToE, right after you seem to assume everyone must believe either in god or multiple universes.

Are you saying time and matter are eternal ?

What I'm saying is I have no idea. I don't know how everything started, what came before, any of that. That doesn't mean it was a god, it certainly doesn't mean it was your god.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Why must one believe either?

I think it's ironic that you post about evolutionists incorrectly using the process of elimination to prove the ToE, right after you seem to assume everyone must believe either in god or multiple universes.

Are you saying time and matter are eternal ?

What I'm saying is I have no idea. I don't know how everything started, what came before, any of that. That doesn't mean it was a god, it certainly doesn't mean it was your god.

Ok you said you don't know how everything started. To me that means there is a beginning. There is overwhelming evidence that something can't come from nothing.

Chaos could not have created this planet and the order of the sun,moon,and the earth.

Chaos could not have created the first cell or the substances that make up the cell. Chaos could not form the cell how could it form life ?

If you rule out a designer what do you base that ruling on ?

Don't you think it is kinda foolish on the parts of many to rule out the designer ?

All complex structures had a designer and builder so why would anyone rule out a designer for this universe and life ?

Where you get your confidence there is no God and creator baffles me.

 

[Montrovant]

Are you saying time and matter are eternal ?

What I'm saying is I have no idea. I don't know how everything started, what came before, any of that. That doesn't mean it was a god, it certainly doesn't mean it was your god.

Ok you said you don't know how everything started. To me that means there is a beginning. There is overwhelming evidence that something can't come from nothing.

Chaos could not have created this planet and the order of the sun,moon,and the earth.

Chaos could not have created the first cell or the substances that make up the cell. Chaos could not form the cell how could it form life ?

If you rule out a designer what do you base that ruling on ?

Don't you think it is kinda foolish on the parts of many to rule out the designer ?

All complex structures had a designer and builder so why would anyone rule out a designer for this universe and life ?

Where you get your confidence there is no God and creator baffles me.

I haven't ruled out a designer. I also haven't assumed I know that there is one, or that if there is one, I know anything about it.

I haven't ruled out everything being a product of chance, either.

I don't know if everything started or if the universe has always been.

You are insistent that I must have some firm belief about how the universe came to be. I do not, nor am I ashamed of my ignorance. We, as a species, know very little about the universe. I don't know why people feel the need to seem so sure about things for which they have little or no evidence, be it a secular or religious view.

A perfect example is your oft-repeated claim that there is no other life in the universe.

You make very assured statements on the nature of the universe (all complex structures have a designer, life cannot arise from chaos, etc.) without any actual evidence.

The difference between us, at least in this conversation, seems to be that I am perfectly willing to admit and accept my ignorance, whereas you seem determined to claim knowledge of just about everything.

 

[UltimateReality]

Giving up and assigning all things not understood to "god" won't do though. That's lazy stinking thinking.

Lazy thinking, or the best explanation for the evidence at hand. I find it so funny that folks can believe in magical multiple universes but they can't believe in an alien being that is so advanced, it exists outside of space, time, matter and energy. At least with the latter theory, we can look at the digital code and see evidence for implentation by an intelligent agent. What evidence do we have for multiple universes??? Other than a rebuttal to the Creationist's argument for fine tuning???

Why must one believe either?

I think it's ironic that you post about evolutionists incorrectly using the process of elimination to prove the ToE, right after you seem to assume everyone must believe either in god or multiple universes.

I didn't assume that. I am saying the same folks that believe in multiple universes without any evidence attack ID theorists for believing in God without any evidence. Then I go on to provide some evidence that would have an intelligent agent as the best current explanation with the evidence we have.

 

[Youwerecreated]

What I'm saying is I have no idea. I don't know how everything started, what came before, any of that. That doesn't mean it was a god, it certainly doesn't mean it was your god.

Ok you said you don't know how everything started. To me that means there is a beginning. There is overwhelming evidence that something can't come from nothing.

Chaos could not have created this planet and the order of the sun,moon,and the earth.

Chaos could not have created the first cell or the substances that make up the cell. Chaos could not form the cell how could it form life ?

If you rule out a designer what do you base that ruling on ?

Don't you think it is kinda foolish on the parts of many to rule out the designer ?

All complex structures had a designer and builder so why would anyone rule out a designer for this universe and life ?

Where you get your confidence there is no God and creator baffles me.

I haven't ruled out a designer. I also haven't assumed I know that there is one, or that if there is one, I know anything about it.

I haven't ruled out everything being a product of chance, either.

I don't know if everything started or if the universe has always been.

You are insistent that I must have some firm belief about how the universe came to be. I do not, nor am I ashamed of my ignorance. We, as a species, know very little about the universe. I don't know why people feel the need to seem so sure about things for which they have little or no evidence, be it a secular or religious view.

A perfect example is your oft-repeated claim that there is no other life in the universe.

You make very assured statements on the nature of the universe (all complex structures have a designer, life cannot arise from chaos, etc.) without any actual evidence.

The difference between us, at least in this conversation, seems to be that I am perfectly willing to admit and accept my ignorance, whereas you seem determined to claim knowledge of just about everything.

Think what you like but I have said why I am so confident in my views,It's very simple the evidence of complex organisms and structures needing help to come about.

 

[HUGGY]

Many of the brightest minds believe God is tangible!

Really? Compared to who? Name them and thier relative brightness.

You can start here.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Seventh-Day-Scientists-Academics-Explain/dp/0890513767/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1307657605&sr=8-3]Amazon.com: On the Seventh Day: Forty Scientists and Academics Explain Why They Believe in God (9780890513767): John Ashton: Books[/ame]

Knowing how to write a thesis does not make anyone "among the brightest". There are more PHD's than millionaires. Would you say millionaires are among the richest people on the planet?

Rather than start with the mediocre intellects why not start at or near the top and count the top one hundred of the brightest minds and investigate how many of them believe in god?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Really? Compared to who? Name them and thier relative brightness.

You can start here.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Seventh-Day-Scientists-Academics-Explain/dp/0890513767/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1307657605&sr=8-3]Amazon.com: On the Seventh Day: Forty Scientists and Academics Explain Why They Believe in God (9780890513767): John Ashton: Books[/ame]

Knowing how to write a thesis does not make anyone "among the brightest". There are more PHD's than millionaires. Would you say millionaires are among the richest people on the planet?

Rather than start with the mediocre intellects why not start at or near the top and count the top one hundred of the brightest minds and investigate how many of them believe in god?

Are these scientist impressive enough for you Huggy ? Oh and do watch the video of DR. Collins on the same page.

Famous Scientists Who Believed in God

 

[diocoses]

The smartest man in the world right now - Stephen Hawking - does not believe in god, or even the afterlife, but that should still in no way define what you believe. Hell, even if every smart person that ever lived didn't believe in god, doesn't mean you are forced to. Decide for your own, don't just follow the authority.

 

[HUGGY]

You can start here.

Amazon.com: On the Seventh Day: Forty Scientists and Academics Explain Why They Believe in God (9780890513767): John Ashton: Books

Knowing how to write a thesis does not make anyone "among the brightest". There are more PHD's than millionaires. Would you say millionaires are among the richest people on the planet?

Rather than start with the mediocre intellects why not start at or near the top and count the top one hundred of the brightest minds and investigate how many of them believe in god?

Are these scientist impressive enough for you Huggy ? Oh and do watch the video of DR. Collins on the same page.

Famous Scientists Who Believed in God

Not very many "sciences" prepare even the brightest for coming to grips with a serious discussion of the possibility or existance of a god. I would have to narrow the search to the top 100 brains that have the best information involving the abilities atributed to "god" such as all of tha claims of the bible...the creation or beginning of life..the creation or beginning of the universe...stuff like that. The top minds in anthropology, bilology..astro and molecular physisits.. theoreticists People like Hawking..

PS..studying the religious dogma like the "bible"...etc..is not science.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The smartest man in the world right now - Stephen Hawking - does not believe in god, or even the afterlife, but that should still in no way define what you believe. Hell, even if every smart person that ever lived didn't believe in god, doesn't mean you are forced to. Decide for your own, don't just follow the authority.

Nope the smartest person in the world today is not hawking it's a woman named Marilyn Mach vos Savant. Her I.Q. is 220. She is married to the man that designed the artificial heart.

Personally I feel sorry for hawking because of his condition but he has accomplished nothing. He is glorified because of his condition and an atheist and his study of black holes and he supposedly discovered black holes leak matter putting into doubt whether black holes are what they were once thought to be. The science community can't agree whether black holes even exist.

I feel hawking has taken too many drugs for his condition.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Knowing how to write a thesis does not make anyone "among the brightest". There are more PHD's than millionaires. Would you say millionaires are among the richest people on the planet?

Rather than start with the mediocre intellects why not start at or near the top and count the top one hundred of the brightest minds and investigate how many of them believe in god?

Are these scientist impressive enough for you Huggy ? Oh and do watch the video of DR. Collins on the same page.

Famous Scientists Who Believed in God

Not very many "sciences" prepare even the brightest for coming to grips with a serious discussion of the possibility or existance of a god. I would have to narrow the search to the top 100 brains that have the best information involving the abilities atributed to "god" such as all of tha claims of the bible...the creation or beginning of life..the creation or beginning of the universe...stuff like that. The top minds in anthropology, bilology..astro and molecular physisits.. theoreticists People like Hawking..

PS..studying the religious dogma like the "bible"...etc..is not science.

Hawking is an Ideologue like dawkins. Studying black holes made him famous and the science community is not in agreement on black holes.

It isn't science to suggest something can come from nothing either.

 

[Montrovant]

The smartest man in the world right now - Stephen Hawking - does not believe in god, or even the afterlife, but that should still in no way define what you believe. Hell, even if every smart person that ever lived didn't believe in god, doesn't mean you are forced to. Decide for your own, don't just follow the authority.

Nope the smartest person in the world today is not hawking it's a woman named Marilyn Mach vos Savant. Her I.Q. is 220. She is married to the man that designed the artificial heart.

Personally I feel sorry for hawking because of his condition but he has accomplished nothing. He is glorified because of his condition and an atheist and his study of black holes and he supposedly discovered black holes leak matter putting into doubt whether black holes are what they were once thought to be. The science community can't agree whether black holes even exist.

I feel hawking has taken too many drugs for his condition.

I am pretty confident that a)there is no definitive way to determine the smartest person and b)even if there were, it would be pretty much impossible to test all of the world's population to find them.

I wonder what you consider to be accomplishments that Hawkings has done none of them. Even if you disagree with his conclusions or beliefs, that doesn't mean he has accomplished nothing.

 

[KevinWestern]

Just a few things.

1.) No person on this planet has any idea whether or not there exists a god. Totally up in the air.
2.) If a god exists, no person on this planet knows any specific details about him/her.
3.) If you claim that a god does indeed exist and that you know things about him/her, you are simply just referencing man-made documents, and this just leads you back to square one.

In summary, what I'm trying to say is that when it comes to the origins of the universe, not a single human on this planet knows the answer. Everything is just speculation. And that's a fact.

Sometimes there are just things that we don't know, and will likely not know for a very, very long time.......
.
.
.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The smartest man in the world right now - Stephen Hawking - does not believe in god, or even the afterlife, but that should still in no way define what you believe. Hell, even if every smart person that ever lived didn't believe in god, doesn't mean you are forced to. Decide for your own, don't just follow the authority.

Nope the smartest person in the world today is not hawking it's a woman named Marilyn Mach vos Savant. Her I.Q. is 220. She is married to the man that designed the artificial heart.

Personally I feel sorry for hawking because of his condition but he has accomplished nothing. He is glorified because of his condition and an atheist and his study of black holes and he supposedly discovered black holes leak matter putting into doubt whether black holes are what they were once thought to be. The science community can't agree whether black holes even exist.

I feel hawking has taken too many drugs for his condition.

I am pretty confident that a)there is no definitive way to determine the smartest person and b)even if there were, it would be pretty much impossible to test all of the world's population to find them.

I wonder what you consider to be accomplishments that Hawkings has done none of them. Even if you disagree with his conclusions or beliefs, that doesn't mean he has accomplished nothing.

I just don't put hawking in the same category as an Einstein,Mendel or Newton.

Well as we know of I named the smartest person known. I wonder why hawking said whoever brags about an I.Q. is a loser. I guess that is because he was hit with a 12 year old maybe having a Higher I.Q. then himself. But he won't take the test.

Tell me his accomplishments then if you want to put this guy on high ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Just a few things.

1.) No person on this planet has any idea whether or not there exists a god. Totally up in the air.
2.) If a god exists, no person on this planet knows any specific details about him/her.
3.) If you claim that a god does indeed exist and that you know things about him/her, you are simply just referencing man-made documents, and this just leads you back to square one.

In summary, what I'm trying to say is that when it comes to the origins of the universe, not a single human on this planet knows the answer. Everything is just speculation. And that's a fact.

Sometimes there are just things that we don't know, and will likely not know for a very, very long time.......
.
.
.

But we do have the ability to reason on the evidence.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The highest I.Q of 228 was recorded by Marilyn Mach vos Savant as I said earlier. She said it is best to believe in God for the simple reason you can gain everlasting life. If he does not exist you only turn to dust. But she held back on her religous beliefs.

I didn't start this argument huffy did.

 

[HUGGY]

The smartest man in the world right now - Stephen Hawking - does not believe in god, or even the afterlife, but that should still in no way define what you believe. Hell, even if every smart person that ever lived didn't believe in god, doesn't mean you are forced to. Decide for your own, don't just follow the authority.

Nope the smartest person in the world today is not hawking it's a woman named Marilyn Mach vos Savant. Her I.Q. is 220. She is married to the man that designed the artificial heart.

Personally I feel sorry for hawking because of his condition but he has accomplished nothing. He is glorified because of his condition and an atheist and his study of black holes and he supposedly discovered black holes leak matter putting into doubt whether black holes are what they were once thought to be. The science community can't agree whether black holes even exist.

I feel hawking has taken too many drugs for his condition.

There is no way to measure a 220 I Q. Hawkings accomplishments are no fluke:

Stephen William Hawking, CH, CBE, FRS, FRSA (born 8 January 1942) is a British theoretical physicist, cosmologist, and author. His key scientific works to date have included providing, with Roger Penrose, theorems regarding gravitational singularities in the framework of general relativity, and the theoretical prediction that black holes should emit radiation, which is today known as Hawking radiation (or sometimes as Bekenstein–Hawking radiation).

He is an Honorary Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, a lifetime member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, and in 2009 was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian award in the United States. Hawking was the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge between 1979 and 2009. Subsequently, he became research director at the university's Centre for Theoretical Cosmology.



I believe he would make my list of brains qualified to make an informed opinion of the existance of god.

Now on to a subject you obviously personally know nothing about.... drugs.

Drugs can clearly be abused. Of that there should be no doubt. That said much of the knowledge of and participation in human inquest of our environment and the human condition has involved risk by those explorers. Reaching out into the un known requires a state of not "knowing" at times like a baby...an infant ..does not know..with an open un preprogrammed mind. Some drugs can be a benefit in removing inhabitions to that end.

LSD for one example can be quite helpful in becoming more enlightened as it opens the minds ability to explore more possible ideas than the brain of a maturing human can do on it's own. Our "normal" experiences build up walls to learning as we adopt strategies for physical self preservation and "getting along" in society. LSD temporarily releases those learned responsibilities allowing the brain to move freely in the theoretical...making associations not possible under "normal" conditions. Stating that having experienced such free thought as a disqualifier is stupid. That is like stating that a proffesional aircraft test pilot has no business driving a fork lift in a warehouse. That stated.. LSD is not for everybody. Some people are more fragile mentally than others and the release of the inhibitions that safely glue thier lives together can be more than disturbing..even permanently and fatally. I don't recommend the ingestion of LSD to anyone before an honest evaluation of the risk of having any possible thought or nightmare vision pop into thier head. For those of stronger mental stuff..I say go for it. The mental experiences can be the most enlightening of your life. Unlike the common sleeping "dream" state where most people do not remember what they saw..with LSD you will remember vividly and be able to take your stunning realizations back into reality for future use.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The smartest man in the world right now - Stephen Hawking - does not believe in god, or even the afterlife, but that should still in no way define what you believe. Hell, even if every smart person that ever lived didn't believe in god, doesn't mean you are forced to. Decide for your own, don't just follow the authority.

Nope the smartest person in the world today is not hawking it's a woman named Marilyn Mach vos Savant. Her I.Q. is 220. She is married to the man that designed the artificial heart.

Personally I feel sorry for hawking because of his condition but he has accomplished nothing. He is glorified because of his condition and an atheist and his study of black holes and he supposedly discovered black holes leak matter putting into doubt whether black holes are what they were once thought to be. The science community can't agree whether black holes even exist.

I feel hawking has taken too many drugs for his condition.

There is no way to measure a 220 I Q. Hawkings accomplishments are no fluke:

Stephen William Hawking, CH, CBE, FRS, FRSA (born 8 January 1942) is a British theoretical physicist, cosmologist, and author. His key scientific works to date have included providing, with Roger Penrose, theorems regarding gravitational singularities in the framework of general relativity, and the theoretical prediction that black holes should emit radiation, which is today known as Hawking radiation (or sometimes as Bekenstein–Hawking radiation).

He is an Honorary Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, a lifetime member of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, and in 2009 was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian award in the United States. Hawking was the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at the University of Cambridge between 1979 and 2009. Subsequently, he became research director at the university's Centre for Theoretical Cosmology.



I believe he would make my list of brains qualified to make an informed opinion of the existance of god.

Now on to a subject you obviously personally know nothing about.... drugs.

Drugs can clearly be abused. Of that there should be no doubt. That said much of the knowledge of and participation in human inquest of our environment and the human condition has involved risk by those explorers. Reaching out into the un known requires a state of not "knowing" at times like a baby...an infant ..does not know..with an open un preprogrammed mind. Some drugs can be a benefit in removing inhabitions to that end.

LSD for one example can be quite helpful in becoming more enlightened as it opens the minds ability to explore more possible ideas than the brain of a maturing human can do on it's own. Our "normal" experiences build up walls to learning as we adopt strategies for physical self preservation and "getting along" in society. LSD temporarily releases those learned responsibilities allowing the brain to move freely in the theoretical...making associations not possible under "normal" conditions. Stating that having experienced such free thought as a disqualifier is stupid. That is like stating that a proffesional aircraft test pilot has no business driving a fork lift in a warehouse. That stated.. LSD is not for everybody. Some people are more fragile mentally than others and the release of the inhibitions that safely glue thier lives together can be more than disturbing..even permanently and fatally. I don't recommend the ingestion of LSD to anyone before an honest evaluation of the risk of having any possible thought or nightmare vision pop into thier head. For those of stronger mental stuff..I say go for it. The mental experiences can be the most enlightening of your life. Unlike the common sleeping "dream" state where most people do not remember what they saw..with LSD you will remember vividly and be able to take your stunning realizations back into reality for future use.

Sorry fella you are once again wrong. Hawking's I.Q. is not known but it has been suggested to be around 180 and Einsteins Was suggested to be around 190.


Like i said Hawking's accomplishments are no comparison to Einsteins,Mendels,and Newtons.

 

[Youwerecreated]

By the way huggy none of these intelligent people can prove or disprove God's existence so what is your point ?

You are so bitter about God you remind me of a Dawkins or Hawking student mainly because of their atheistic views.

It just pisses you off to think intelliget people believe in creation doesn't it ?