Crawling to godless science?

[KittenKoder]

Garbage--If there is a God it could certainly use a doctor to display it's healing powers and give sick humans the brains to go to one.

However with that logic you are failing to give credit to the doctor for being smart, good, and decent.

not really

How? If everything good we do is controlled by a god then it's not our own wisdom and intellect that got us to do it.

 

[dilloduck]

However with that logic you are failing to give credit to the doctor for being smart, good, and decent.

not really

How? If everything good we do is controlled by a god then it's not our own wisdom and intellect that got us to do it.

where did I use the word "everything" ?

 

[KittenKoder]

not really

How? If everything good we do is controlled by a god then it's not our own wisdom and intellect that got us to do it.

where did I use the word "everything" ?

I was speaking more of the original post which spun this line of discussion really, not saying you did, just offering you a view which many others see.

 

[dilloduck]

How? If everything good we do is controlled by a god then it's not our own wisdom and intellect that got us to do it.

where did I use the word "everything" ?

I was speaking more of the original post which spun this line of discussion really, not saying you did, just offering you a view which many others see.

However with that logic you are failing to give credit to the doctor for being smart, good, and decent

bull --you were referring to my logic

 

[KittenKoder]

where did I use the word "everything" ?

I was speaking more of the original post which spun this line of discussion really, not saying you did, just offering you a view which many others see.

However with that logic you are failing to give credit to the doctor for being smart, good, and decent

bull --you were referring to my logic

Yes, since you were agreeing with the other post I was applying it in the same manner.

 

[Avatar4321]

If only you could prove that.

Have you ever stopped to consider what has actually been proved in life? Very little.

Truth is truth regardless whether you believe it or not. Facts are facts.

 

[Abelian Sea]

Did the universe create itself?

Was the universe created at all?

Could it have existed eternally?

I don't see why not. The whole "events have prior causes" thing really rings true to me, and the "uncaused cause" thing, which you would expect to find in a finite time line scenario, strikes me as paradoxical.

That's just my naive intuition, but I will point out that the underlying thought - that it is possible for something to have always existed, without ever having been created - is common among religious people, who will typically tell you that about God, especially if asked "what created God?"

 

[Coloradomtnman]

If only you could prove that.

Have you ever stopped to consider what has actually been proved in life? Very little.

Truth is truth regardless whether you believe it or not. Facts are facts.

Avatar, that might be the most philosophically nonsensical and contradictory thing I've ever read in my life.

Almost nothing has been proven, but truth is truth and facts are facts.

Just for that I'm going to rep you.

 

[Kalam]

I don't see why not.

The idea of an eternal universe seems to contradict the second law of thermodynamics. If the physical universe had always existed, I think, it would currently be in a state of thermodynamic equilibrium.

The whole "events have prior causes" thing really rings true to me, and the "uncaused cause" thing, which you would expect to find in a finite time line scenario, strikes me as paradoxical.

How so? The universe must have had a cause because it must have had, according to our current understanding of it, a beginning. As an entity existing outside of the physical universe, unbound by its laws, why would God require a beginning or a cause?

That's just my naive intuition, but I will point out that the underlying thought - that it is possible for something to have always existed, without ever having been created - is common among religious people, who will typically tell you that about God, especially if asked "what created God?"

It's important to distinguish between matter, governed by physical laws, and that which is distinct from matter and formless.

 

[Kalam]

If only you could prove that.

Have you ever stopped to consider what has actually been proved in life? Very little.

Truth is truth regardless whether you believe it or not. Facts are facts.

Nothing is true unless its truth can be demonstrated logically and/or empirically.

 

[JBeukema]

Did the universe create itself?

Creation= causation. Creation only exists so long as there is spa ce and matter. These things came into being with the big bang. Therefore, time- and causation- also came into being when the big bang began. there is no 'before' the big bang and a creator is impossible because creation is impossible

Does it even really exist?

I believe it was Einstein who said something to effect that 'Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one'

God created science.

Yet he was no competent to create a science that could demonstrate tat here is there so that none would perish, but all would learn of him and have everlasting life?

So much for benevolent and omnipotent



Some of them do rely only on prayer to heal their sick kids and then they get arrested for negligence when the kids die. Hey, if god is in control of everything, why did the kids get sick in the first place? It seems strange to pray to a god who allowed the sickness to occur at all.

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

I love this god!

 

[dilloduck]

Creation= causation. Creation only exists so long as there is spa ce and matter. These things came into being with the big bang. Therefore, time- and causation- also came into being when the big bang began. there is no 'before' the big bang and a creator is impossible because creation is impossible



I believe it was Einstein who said something to effect that 'Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one'



Yet he was no competent to create a science that could demonstrate tat here is there so that none would perish, but all would learn of him and have everlasting life?

So much for benevolent and omnipotent




Some of them do rely only on prayer to heal their sick kids and then they get arrested for negligence when the kids die. Hey, if god is in control of everything, why did the kids get sick in the first place? It seems strange to pray to a god who allowed the sickness to occur at all.

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

I love this god!

He loved you first.

 

[JBeukema]

And he hated Esau from birth and commanded all non-jews be slain. Judaism: The first 'Master race' cult. Great history christians adopt, yes?

 

[Kalam]

Creation= causation. Creation only exists so long as there is spa ce and matter. These things came into being with the big bang. Therefore, time- and causation- also came into being when the big bang began. there is no 'before' the big bang and a creator is impossible because creation is impossible

You're making an argument based on the constraints of the English language. That the act of creation is ineffable because verbs in our language imply action over time does not mean that creation did not occur. Moreover, you're assuming that God's abilities would be limited by entities that exist within God's own creation. That assumption is not logical. Finally, by denying that the universe was created, you're necessarily implying that it came into existence on its own. That is an axiomatic impossibility.

 

[dilloduck]

And he hated Esau from birth and commanded all non-jews be slain. Judaism: The first 'Master race' cult. Great history christians adopt, yes?

It is odd to me that some adopt it. I guess they had to give the new guy some kind of history.

 

[edthecynic]

I don't see why not.

The idea of an eternal universe seems to contradict the second law of thermodynamics. If the physical universe had always existed, I think, it would currently be in a state of thermodynamic equilibrium.

I already corrected you on another thread. An eternal universe does not contradict the real SLoT which says Entropy CAN equal ZERO

and "thermodynamic equilibrium" violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics.

 

[Kalam]

I don't see why not.

The idea of an eternal universe seems to contradict the second law of thermodynamics. If the physical universe had always existed, I think, it would currently be in a state of thermodynamic equilibrium.

I already corrected you on another thread.

Actually, you slunk away from that thread with your tail between your legs. If you want to continue our discussion, do it there.

 

[JBeukema]

and "thermodynamic equilibrium" violates the Third Law of Thermodynamics.

What did you just say? Can i get that translated into layman, please?

You're making an argument based on the constraints of the English language. That the act of creation is ineffable because verbs in our language imply action over time does not mean that creation did not occur

To create is to cause to come into being. Causation is reliant upon time (although cause can occur after effect, quite counterintuitively)

Finally, by denying that the universe was created, you're necessarily implying that it came into existence on its own. That is an axiomatic impossibility.

Not so, as I have demonstrated

 

[edthecynic]

If only you could prove that.

Have you ever stopped to consider what has actually been proved in life? Very little.

Truth is truth regardless whether you believe it or not. Facts are facts.

Nothing is true unless its truth can be demonstrated logically and/or empirically.

The First Law of Thermodynamics was proven with a repeatable experiment by James Prescott Joule and it says Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. That means you can't get something from nothing and energy has always existed and will always exist in the exact same total quantity. Energy is a constant.

 

[edthecynic]

The idea of an eternal universe seems to contradict the second law of thermodynamics. If the physical universe had always existed, I think, it would currently be in a state of thermodynamic equilibrium.

I already corrected you on another thread.

Actually, you slunk away from that thread with your tail between your legs. If you want to continue our discussion, do it there.

Only in your DISHONEST dreams!!!
You cut and ran from my last post!!!

http://www.usmessageboard.com/science-and-technology/65844-the-universe-eternal-or-no-18.html