Court rules US schools can ban US flag shirts on cinco de mayo

[barry1960]

Court OKs school's ban on U.S. flag T-shirts on Cinco de Mayo - CNN.com

Again libs, how is diversity our strength?

Safety and security concerns are well and good, but the US flag should trump any foreign holiday or observance. If it triggers violence so be it. At least then there'd be cause to not celebrate such foreign holidays in the future.

Personally, I am not big on kids wearing T-Shirts to school.

They should be dressed in uniforms or business casual clothing.

They should be getting for the real world.

Well said, uniforms would be a good idea at all schools, but they never work out because the parents of some whiny undisciplined loser kid always object. There are lot of benefits to school uniforms.

 

[WillowTree]

I would keep my kid home, let him put his flag shirt on and go have fun with him. Fuck cinco d myo, fuck the schools, and fuck the judge too.

 

[WillowTree]

Court OKs school's ban on U.S. flag T-shirts on Cinco de Mayo - CNN.com

Again libs, how is diversity our strength?

Safety and security concerns are well and good, but the US flag should trump any foreign holiday or observance. If it triggers violence so be it. At least then there'd be cause to not celebrate such foreign holidays in the future.

Correct, if it triggers violence then cancel fucking cinco de myo until the Hispanic students learn to behave themselves. You never cancel the American Flag. Fuck that judge.

 

[bedowin62]

This is HORRIBLE
Schools banning patriotic students from showing the flag

In reality, the students wore their flag shirts just to provoke Mexican students and say....Fuck you and your holiday. Not exactly patriotic

The school banned the shirts not because they supported the Mexican holiday over the US Flag but because the shirts were causing fights between students

The school was seeking to defuse a potentially violent situation

We live in the USA. The solution is to cancel the Mexican holiday, not ban the US flag.

Under no circumstances, I repeat under no circumstances should we have events or rules that require we ban our flag. Our flag should supersede all else, no exceptions.

It's not a flag.

It's a T-Shirt.

And if you go around carrying little flags to instigate a fight?

That's not patriotism.

That's bullying.

what kind of complete idiot thinks being proud of your own country; AND THE COUNTRY THE MEXICANS CAME TO AS WELL TO START A NEW LIFE?

 

[bedowin62]

We live in the USA. The solution is to cancel the Mexican holiday, not ban the US flag.

Under no circumstances, I repeat under no circumstances should we have events or rules that require we ban our flag. Our flag should supersede all else, no exceptions.

It's not a flag.

It's a T-Shirt.

And if you go around carrying little flags to instigate a fight?

That's not patriotism.

That's bullying.

what kind of complete idiot thinks being proud of your own country; AND THE COUNTRY THE MEXICANS CAME TO AS WELL TO START A NEW LIFE?

OOOOPPSS that is incomplete. i meant what kind of complete idiot thinks it is a bad thing; or is "instigating" to wear a t-shirt showing pride for your own country?

in that case how is Mexicans not flag-waving not an instigation? is Cinco de Mayo the only day Mexicans wear flags on their shirts or wave their flags?

libs are idiots

 

[Moonglow]

It's not a flag.

It's a T-Shirt.

And if you go around carrying little flags to instigate a fight?

That's not patriotism.

That's bullying.

what kind of complete idiot thinks being proud of your own country; AND THE COUNTRY THE MEXICANS CAME TO AS WELL TO START A NEW LIFE?

OOOOPPSS that is incomplete. i meant what kind of complete idiot thinks it is a bad thing; or is "instigating" to wear a t-shirt showing pride for your own country?

in that case how is Mexicans not flag-waving not an instigation? is Cinco de Mayo the only day Mexicans wear flags on their shirts or wave their flags?

libs are idiots

Do you normally post to your own posts??

 

[rightwinger]

Safety and security concerns are well and good, but the US flag should trump any foreign holiday or observance. If it triggers violence so be it. At least then there'd be cause to not celebrate such foreign holidays in the future.

Personally, I am not big on kids wearing T-Shirts to school.

They should be dressed in uniforms or business casual clothing.

They should be getting for the real world.

Well said, uniforms would be a good idea at all schools, but they never work out because the parents of some whiny undisciplined loser kid always object. There are lot of benefits to school uniforms.

When I went to High School in the 70s we couldn't wear t shirts or jeans. You had to wear a shirt with a collar and dress pants. In the last week of class before summer we were allowed to wear t shirts and shorts

 

[bedowin62]

what kind of complete idiot thinks being proud of your own country; AND THE COUNTRY THE MEXICANS CAME TO AS WELL TO START A NEW LIFE?

OOOOPPSS that is incomplete. i meant what kind of complete idiot thinks it is a bad thing; or is "instigating" to wear a t-shirt showing pride for your own country?

in that case how is Mexicans not flag-waving not an instigation? is Cinco de Mayo the only day Mexicans wear flags on their shirts or wave their flags?

libs are idiots

Do you normally post to your own posts??

yawn

why?

 

[WillowTree]

what kind of complete idiot thinks being proud of your own country; AND THE COUNTRY THE MEXICANS CAME TO AS WELL TO START A NEW LIFE?

OOOOPPSS that is incomplete. i meant what kind of complete idiot thinks it is a bad thing; or is "instigating" to wear a t-shirt showing pride for your own country?

in that case how is Mexicans not flag-waving not an instigation? is Cinco de Mayo the only day Mexicans wear flags on their shirts or wave their flags?

libs are idiots

Do you normally post to your own posts??

At least he knows he's posting to someone with intelligence!

 

[Montrovant]

There are so many problems with this I almost don't know where to begin.

First of all, the court is essentially saying your Constitutional rights are suspended if someone else could possibly react violently towards you for exercising them. It would seem to be the problem lies with the potentially threatening protester so they're the ones who should be restrained here, not the person lawfully exercising their rights.

The second issue I have is why this school is even having a Cinco de Mayo celebration. It's not Mexico's independence day and it's not even widely celebrated throughout the country. It's mostly concentrated in one region where the battle took place. It's a holiday that's been primarily adopted by white American liberals under some misguided notion that they're somehow promoting diversity. This isn't Mexico and just because someone has Mexican DNA doesn't mean they necessarily give a shit about this holiday. That they even assume they would is frankly racist, in my opinion. I'm half Italian and half German and I couldn't tell you what the hell they celebrate over there other than Oktoberfest. Under the guise of celebrating diversity, they are, in fact, promoting division, when they should be fostering unity. Even the Latino kids at this high school are Americans first and that's the message the school should be sending, that everyone there is American, whether their family has been here for 20 years or 200.

Court: School can ban US flag shirts for safety

Underage children have never had the same rights as adults.

Schools have long had dress codes. Those have usually been more stringent than any decency laws which might curtail the dress of adults.

Per the article, the judges specifically said this had nothing to do with whether or not the school should have been holding a Cinco de Mayo celebration, it was only about whether the school had sufficient reason and legal standing to take the action they did regarding the flag shirts.

I tend to agree that having the Cinco de Mayo celebration in the first place seems ridiculous.

 

[Jughead]

This is HORRIBLE
Schools banning patriotic students from showing the flag

In reality, the students wore their flag shirts just to provoke Mexican students and say....Fuck you and your holiday. Not exactly patriotic

The school banned the shirts not because they supported the Mexican holiday over the US Flag but because the shirts were causing fights between students

The school was seeking to defuse a potentially violent situation

We live in the USA. The solution is to cancel the Mexican holiday, not ban the US flag.

Under no circumstances, I repeat under no circumstances should we have events or rules that require we ban our flag. Our flag should supersede all else, no exceptions.

It's not a flag.

It's a T-Shirt.

And if you go around carrying little flags to instigate a fight?

That's not patriotism.

That's bullying.

I'll ask a simple question. Why would little American flags instigate a fight? We are in the USA afterall.

If my son were at this school, I would organize a committee with the other parents, and have a flag waving event in front of that school on May 5th. It is America, and we should be able to selectively fly our flag when we like.

By the way, I'll bet the parents of these kids will not take this lying down, they will indeed organize an event to fly the American flag in front of the school on May 5th.

 

[kidrocks]

WHAT?







Court OKs ban on American flag shirts to protect students' safety | MSNBC

A federal appeals court ruled Thursday that a California high school did not violate the rights of its students when it ordered children wearing American flag t-shirts on Cinco de Mayo to turn them inside out.

 

[KNB]

If stupid white racists don't like other cultures then they should move out of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Florida, the Carolinas, Montana, or anywhere else that has a "foreign" name.

 

[Little-Acorn]

According to the article below, the threats of violence weren't coming from the American-flag wearers. They were coming exclusively from the Cinco-de-mayo crowd.

We have here the astonishing spectacle of one group threatening violence against another, and the authorities sanctioning the group that is being threatened while doing nothing to the group doing the threatening.

We do not yet know whether these "authorities" (and their sycophants on this forum) would also say that a raped woman deserved it, and would punish her by forcing her to wear all-concealing clothing, such as a habib, while doing nothing to punish the rapist.

But these people have moved a long way in that direction. If they wouldn't reach such a conclusion today about that woman, it's probably just a matter of time.

---------------------------------------------------

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...isplay-american-flag-in-american-high-school/

Not safe to display American flag in American high school

by Eugene Volokh
February 27 at 2:35 pm

The court points out that the rights of students in public high schools are limited — under the Supreme Court’s decision in Tinker v. Des Moines Indep. Comm. School Dist. (1969), student speech could be restricted if “school authorities [can reasonably] forecast substantial disruption of or material interference with school activities” stemming from the speech. And on the facts of this case, the court concludes, there was reason to think that the wearing of the T-shirts would lead to disruption. There had been threats of racial violence aimed at students who wore such shirts the year before....

(snip)

This is a classic “heckler’s veto” — thugs threatening to attack the speaker, and government officials suppressing the speech to prevent such violence. “Heckler’s vetoes” are generally not allowed under First Amendment law; the government should generally protect the speaker and threaten to arrest the thugs, not suppress the speaker’s speech. But under Tinker‘s “forecast substantial disruption” test, such a heckler’s veto is indeed allowed.

The 9th Circuit decision may thus be a faithful application of Tinker, and it might be that Tinker sets forth the correct constitutional rule here. Schools have special responsibilities to educate their students and to protect them both against violence and against disruption of their educations. A school might thus have the discretion to decide that it will prevent disruption even at the cost of letting thugs suppress speech.

Yet even if the judges are right, the situation in the school seems very bad. Somehow, we’ve reached the point that students can’t safely display the American flag in an American school, because of a fear that other students will attack them for it — and the school feels unable to prevent such attacks (by punishing the threateners and the attackers, and by teaching students tolerance for other students’ speech). Something is badly wrong, whether such an incident happens on May 5 or any other day.

And this is especially so because behavior that gets rewarded gets repeated. The school taught its students a simple lesson: If you dislike speech and want it suppressed, then you can get what you want by threatening violence against the speakers. The school will cave in, the speakers will be shut up, and you and your ideology will win. When thuggery pays, the result is more thuggery. Is that the education we want our students to be getting?

 

[Unkotare]

This is HORRIBLE
Schools banning patriotic students from showing the flag

In reality, the students wore their flag shirts just to provoke Mexican students and say....Fuck you and your holiday. Not exactly patriotic

The school banned the shirts not because they supported the Mexican holiday over the US Flag but because the shirts were causing fights between students

The school was seeking to defuse a potentially violent situation

So if anti LGBT students started attacking LGBT students who wore LGBT rights shirts, you'd be fine with banning the LGBT shirts because the LGBTs were provoking?

Ummmm...actually, I would

When my kids went to school there were strict rules on what you could wear on a t-shirt. If you wore anything that was controversial you were told to take it off or turn it inside out

Schools have an obligation to keep the peace

Representations of the American flag are "controversial" - in AMERICA?


Just how far down the fucking rabbit hole do you far-left nuts intend to go?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

If stupid white racists don't like other cultures then they should move out of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Florida, the Carolinas, Montana, or anywhere else that has a "foreign" name.

Um......the people making the threats were the ones wearing the mexican flag shirts and the court ruled with them. Yes, the ones wearing mexican shirts showed no tolerance and they should move back to mexico. Truly a mistake by the ninth court and should be thrown out when it makes it up the ladder.

 

[WillowTree]

This is HORRIBLE
Schools banning patriotic students from showing the flag

In reality, the students wore their flag shirts just to provoke Mexican students and say....Fuck you and your holiday. Not exactly patriotic

The school banned the shirts not because they supported the Mexican holiday over the US Flag but because the shirts were causing fights between students

The school was seeking to defuse a potentially violent situation

We live in the USA. The solution is to cancel the Mexican holiday, not ban the US flag.

Under no circumstances, I repeat under no circumstances should we have events or rules that require we ban our flag. Our flag should supersede all else, no exceptions.

I would even go a step futher, uniforms in every public school. No need to even have this discussion.

That's the answer, navy blue pants and an American flag shirt. Mandatory, no exceptions, no exemptions, no excuses. Everyday!

 

[rightwinger]

So if anti LGBT students started attacking LGBT students who wore LGBT rights shirts, you'd be fine with banning the LGBT shirts because the LGBTs were provoking?

Ummmm...actually, I would

When my kids went to school there were strict rules on what you could wear on a t-shirt. If you wore anything that was controversial you were told to take it off or turn it inside out

Schools have an obligation to keep the peace

Representations of the American flag are "controversial" - in AMERICA?


Just how far down the fucking rabbit hole do you far-left nuts intend to go?

You are correct. It shouldn't be that way

But in this school it was. Kids were not wearing flag shirts out of patriotism but to provoke an incident with other students. In this case (not ALL schools) the principal thought that it was necessary to ban them in the interests of safety......the court agreed

 

[nodoginnafight]

If wearing an American Flag makes you a target ... in America ... something is amiss imho.

 

[OriginalShroom]

WTF????

Because Mexican-Americans or just plain Mexicans who are here illegally using our school systems because of a faulty court ruling, are going to get upset, that is reason enough to tell other Students they can't wear a shirt with an American Flag on it?

Why not either cancel the "Celebration" altogether? Or how about warning the Mexican Students that if they can't control themselves, they need to stay home?

Is the Mexican's "right" to celebrate a Non-American holiday greater than an American's 1st Amendment right of Free Speech, which includes wearing a shirt with an American flag on it?

Damn.. Just as I think the 9th is getting it's act together, they pull a bone-headed stunt like this.

Court: School can ban US flag shirts for safety

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Officials at a Northern California high school acted appropriately when they ordered students wearing American flag T-shirts to turn the garments inside out during the Mexican heritage celebration Cinco de Mayo, a federal appeals court ruled Thursday.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the officials' concerns of racial violence outweighed students' freedom of expression rights. Administrators feared the American-flag shirts would enflame the passions of Latino students celebrating the Mexican holiday. Live Oak High School, in the San Jose suburb of Morgan Hill, had a history of problems between white and Latino students on that day.

The unanimous three-judge panel said past problems gave school officials sufficient and justifiable reasons for their actions. The court said schools have wide latitude in curbing certain civil rights to ensure campus safety.

"Our role is not to second-guess the decision to have a Cinco de Mayo celebration or the precautions put in place to avoid violence," Judge M. Margaret McKeown wrote for the panel. The past events "made it reasonable for school officials to proceed as though the threat of a potentially violent disturbance was real," she wrote.

The case garnered national attention as many expressed outrage that students were barred from wearing patriotic clothing. The Ann Arbor, Mich.-based American Freedom Law Center, a politically conservative legal aid foundation, and other similar organizations took up the students' case and sued the high school and the school district.

William Becker, one of the lawyers representing the students, said he plans to ask a special 11-judge panel of the appeals court to rehear the case. Becker said he would appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court if he loses again.

"The 9th Circuit upheld the rights of Mexican students celebrating a holiday of another country over U.S. student proudly supporting this country," Becker said.